Bregman sure would have looked good at 3rd for the Cards.

[RunSup]

Of the 10 hits in the series, if I counted correctly 9 were hit the other way. Many of the Cub's hits were to the opposite field something JJ needs to do, again if I counted only one of his hits went the other way. He just continues to ground out to second or sometimes first.

+1

[mattmitchl44]

But that's all right because Bloom and DeWitt are getting that talent pipeline up to speed and int 2 or 10 years they'll be a juggernaut. The difference between spending to win or tanking. Oh excuse me, I meant "rebuilding".

The guy making $35 mil a year with an OPS+ of 100?

Look at his career stats and sneer. Where would he be on the depth chart for the Cards?

You're right. Pay no attention to the stats in front of you. Instead justify your answer by looking at past performance.

Short sample size bias. You have no idea how his entire season will go. I have no real axe to grind here. I'm no huge fan of Bregman. Did the Cubs overpay? Maybe. Probably. But they have a legitimate bat at third base and he just beat the Cards today. At least they're trying to win. The Cards ownership made it clear from the get go that they want to lose. I can't support that bull.

And that is exactly what you DON'T do when you don't have a sufficient core of young, cost controlled players ready to "win now."

AFTER the Cardinals have a sufficient core of young, cost controlled players in place, maybe then you can think about paying/overpaying for that last piece or two that you need to "win now."

But it would just be foolish to for them to lock themselves into a deal like Bregman's (who is likely to continue declining in the mid-to-late 30s) now when they aren't ready to compete.

Spending has to be smart and timely if a team like the Cardinals is going to win another WS anytime soon.

Saving BILLIONAIRE owners money is the primary concern. Because competing yearly is too much effort. Meanwhile, teams like the Cubs will probably get their tickets punched and have a chance to win the whole thing. You must be so happy.

It's not about "saving billionaire owners money." It's about acknowledging that this team is going to have a BUDGET - every single team, business, government, etc. has a BUDGET - whether you think they should have a budget or not. And even if/when that budget goes back up to $170, $180, etc. million, you don't want them to be holding bad contracts that they signed one, two, three years prior just to "do something!" to act like they were "competing."

You don't deal in reality.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

It's not about "saving billionaire owners money." It's about acknowledging that this team is going to have a BUDGET - every single team, business, government, etc. has a BUDGET - whether you think they should have a budget or not. And even if/when that budget goes back up to $170, $180, etc. million, you don't want them to be holding bad contracts that they signed one, two, three years prior just to "do something!" to act like they were "competing."

You don't deal in reality.

Your last line sums up CCard perfectly. That, or he is a child, or a troll. There are no other options that make sense.

[Ozziesfan41]

But that's all right because Bloom and DeWitt are getting that talent pipeline up to speed and int 2 or 10 years they'll be a juggernaut. The difference between spending to win or tanking. Oh excuse me, I meant "rebuilding".

The guy making $35 mil a year with an OPS+ of 100?

Look at his career stats and sneer. Where would he be on the depth chart for the Cards?

You're right. Pay no attention to the stats in front of you. Instead justify your answer by looking at past performance.

Short sample size bias. You have no idea how his entire season will go. I have no real axe to grind here. I'm no huge fan of Bregman. Did the Cubs overpay? Maybe. Probably. But they have a legitimate bat at third base and he just beat the Cards today. At least they're trying to win. The Cards ownership made it clear from the get go that they want to lose. I can't support that bull.

And that is exactly what you DON'T do when you don't have a sufficient core of young, cost controlled players ready to "win now."

AFTER the Cardinals have a sufficient core of young, cost controlled players in place, maybe then you can think about paying/overpaying for that last piece or two that you need to "win now."

But it would just be foolish to for them to lock themselves into a deal like Bregman's (who is likely to continue declining in the mid-to-late 30s) now when they aren't ready to compete.

Spending has to be smart and timely if a team like the Cardinals is going to win another WS anytime soon.

Saving BILLIONAIRE owners money is the primary concern. Because competing yearly is too much effort. Meanwhile, teams like the Cubs will probably get their tickets punched and have a chance to win the whole thing. You must be so happy.

It's not about "saving billionaire owners money." It's about acknowledging that this team is going to have a BUDGET - every single team, business, government, etc. has a BUDGET - whether you think they should have a budget or not. And even if/when that budget goes back up to $170, $180, etc. million, you don't want them to be holding bad contracts that they signed one, two, three years prior just to "do something!" to act like they were "competing."

You don't deal in reality.

Amen that was mos problem the payroll he had he wasted a lot of it on bad contracts and those bad contracts played even though they sucked so signing bad contracts just to act like you’re trying to win is a horrible strategy. I don’t remember saying yea the Fowler contract is horrible but hey mo tried!

[Maplebutterworth]

But that's all right because Bloom and DeWitt are getting that talent pipeline up to speed and int 2 or 10 years they'll be a juggernaut. The difference between spending to win or tanking. Oh excuse me, I meant "rebuilding".

The guy making $35 mil a year with an OPS+ of 100?

Look at his career stats and sneer. Where would he be on the depth chart for the Cards?

You're right. Pay no attention to the stats in front of you. Instead justify your answer by looking at past performance.

Short sample size bias. You have no idea how his entire season will go. I have no real axe to grind here. I'm no huge fan of Bregman. Did the Cubs overpay? Maybe. Probably. But they have a legitimate bat at third base and he just beat the Cards today. At least they're trying to win. The Cards ownership made it clear from the get go that they want to lose. I can't support that bull.

Thats understandable. Im simply of the opinion that one shouldn't sign a player just because they're an upgrade on what you have if the cost doesn't justify it. To me, $35 mil a year isnt worth it for a career slash of .270/.363/.472/.835. I would bet most cubs fans would say they're currently underwhelmed by Bregman so far.

[CCard]

But that's all right because Bloom and DeWitt are getting that talent pipeline up to speed and int 2 or 10 years they'll be a juggernaut. The difference between spending to win or tanking. Oh excuse me, I meant "rebuilding".

The guy making $35 mil a year with an OPS+ of 100?

Look at his career stats and sneer. Where would he be on the depth chart for the Cards?

You're right. Pay no attention to the stats in front of you. Instead justify your answer by looking at past performance.

Short sample size bias. You have no idea how his entire season will go. I have no real axe to grind here. I'm no huge fan of Bregman. Did the Cubs overpay? Maybe. Probably. But they have a legitimate bat at third base and he just beat the Cards today. At least they're trying to win. The Cards ownership made it clear from the get go that they want to lose. I can't support that bull.

Thats understandable. Im simply of the opinion that one shouldn't sign a player just because they're an upgrade on what you have if the cost doesn't justify it. To me, $35 mil a year isnt worth it for a career slash of .270/.363/.472/.835. I would bet most cubs fans would say they're currently underwhelmed by Bregman so far.
[/q

I'm in agreement really. It was really too expensive for the production but I'm also disappointed that ownership didn't pursue top tier talent. I don't really know how many 3rd basemen were available that were better and that's why I applaud the Cubs for trying. Will they have to eventually do what the Cards did with Arenado? Probably, but until then their lineup is lengthened and they have a player that is above average manning third. Blaze Jordan and his 1 homerun isn't really cutting it. Maybe he'll get better or maybe he's not the answer. There was any number of ways that ownership could have improved the team. $100 million is a drop in the proverbial bucket for them but they chose to be cheap and probably the CBA played into it also. Regardless, they could have made the team better but chose not to at the fan's expense. Sad really.

[CCard]

But that's all right because Bloom and DeWitt are getting that talent pipeline up to speed and int 2 or 10 years they'll be a juggernaut. The difference between spending to win or tanking. Oh excuse me, I meant "rebuilding".

The guy making $35 mil a year with an OPS+ of 100?

Look at his career stats and sneer. Where would he be on the depth chart for the Cards?

You're right. Pay no attention to the stats in front of you. Instead justify your answer by looking at past performance.

Short sample size bias. You have no idea how his entire season will go. I have no real axe to grind here. I'm no huge fan of Bregman. Did the Cubs overpay? Maybe. Probably. But they have a legitimate bat at third base and he just beat the Cards today. At least they're trying to win. The Cards ownership made it clear from the get go that they want to lose. I can't support that bull.

And that is exactly what you DON'T do when you don't have a sufficient core of young, cost controlled players ready to "win now."

AFTER the Cardinals have a sufficient core of young, cost controlled players in place, maybe then you can think about paying/overpaying for that last piece or two that you need to "win now."

But it would just be foolish to for them to lock themselves into a deal like Bregman's (who is likely to continue declining in the mid-to-late 30s) now when they aren't ready to compete.

Spending has to be smart and timely if a team like the Cardinals is going to win another WS anytime soon.

Saving BILLIONAIRE owners money is the primary concern. Because competing yearly is too much effort. Meanwhile, teams like the Cubs will probably get their tickets punched and have a chance to win the whole thing. You must be so happy.

It's not about "saving billionaire owners money." It's about acknowledging that this team is going to have a BUDGET - every single team, business, government, etc. has a BUDGET - whether you think they should have a budget or not. And even if/when that budget goes back up to $170, $180, etc. million, you don't want them to be holding bad contracts that they signed one, two, three years prior just to "do something!" to act like they were "competing."

You don't deal in reality.

1. Who benefits from cutting payroll? Ownership.
2. The budget shouldn't be $98 million dollars....ever. The only purpose is losing.
3. You, I or ownership can never know whether a contract will be bad. It's a
(bleep) shoot. Nobody could have expected the cliff that the co mvp's would have
fallen off of. They just locked up Wetherholt long term. What if he fails? No one
knows for sure. His career could end tomorrow.
4.This team should be spending double what they're spending on talent. It would look
like a different team if that was true. You know it, I know it and any sane person
knows it.
5.The goal should be to compete every year. Not tank to gather breadcrumbs for your
mythical pie. It's a slap in the face to fans, a travesty to the game and a flawed
philosophy that some like you seem to have some kind of fetish for.

If you don't want to win every year then why field a team every year. Just forfeit all the games until you can build up your crumbs. It's asinine. Reality? I would argue that my point of view is reality and yours is a fantasy. Even after years of suffering you can offer no guarantee of winning anything. You know it and I know it and everyone knows it.

[Ozziesfan41]

But that's all right because Bloom and DeWitt are getting that talent pipeline up to speed and int 2 or 10 years they'll be a juggernaut. The difference between spending to win or tanking. Oh excuse me, I meant "rebuilding".

The guy making $35 mil a year with an OPS+ of 100?

Look at his career stats and sneer. Where would he be on the depth chart for the Cards?

You're right. Pay no attention to the stats in front of you. Instead justify your answer by looking at past performance.

Short sample size bias. You have no idea how his entire season will go. I have no real axe to grind here. I'm no huge fan of Bregman. Did the Cubs overpay? Maybe. Probably. But they have a legitimate bat at third base and he just beat the Cards today. At least they're trying to win. The Cards ownership made it clear from the get go that they want to lose. I can't support that bull.

And that is exactly what you DON'T do when you don't have a sufficient core of young, cost controlled players ready to "win now."

AFTER the Cardinals have a sufficient core of young, cost controlled players in place, maybe then you can think about paying/overpaying for that last piece or two that you need to "win now."

But it would just be foolish to for them to lock themselves into a deal like Bregman's (who is likely to continue declining in the mid-to-late 30s) now when they aren't ready to compete.

Spending has to be smart and timely if a team like the Cardinals is going to win another WS anytime soon.

Saving BILLIONAIRE owners money is the primary concern. Because competing yearly is too much effort. Meanwhile, teams like the Cubs will probably get their tickets punched and have a chance to win the whole thing. You must be so happy.

It's not about "saving billionaire owners money." It's about acknowledging that this team is going to have a BUDGET - every single team, business, government, etc. has a BUDGET - whether you think they should have a budget or not. And even if/when that budget goes back up to $170, $180, etc. million, you don't want them to be holding bad contracts that they signed one, two, three years prior just to "do something!" to act like they were "competing."

You don't deal in reality.

1. Who benefits from cutting payroll? Ownership.
2. The budget shouldn't be $98 million dollars....ever. The only purpose is losing.
3. You, I or ownership can never know whether a contract will be bad. It's a
(bleep) shoot. Nobody could have expected the cliff that the co mvp's would have
fallen off of. They just locked up Wetherholt long term. What if he fails? No one
knows for sure. His career could end tomorrow.
4.This team should be spending double what they're spending on talent. It would look
like a different team if that was true. You know it, I know it and any sane person
knows it.
5.The goal should be to compete every year. Not tank to gather breadcrumbs for your
mythical pie. It's a slap in the face to fans, a travesty to the game and a flawed
philosophy that some like you seem to have some kind of fetish for.

If you don't want to win every year then why field a team every year. Just forfeit all the games until you can build up your crumbs. It's asinine. Reality? I would argue that my point of view is reality and yours is a fantasy. Even after years of suffering you can offer no guarantee of winning anything. You know it and I know it and everyone knows it.

Those are all your opinions and not very good ones when the cardinals were spending they couldn’t guarantee winning and didn’t win

[CCard]

But that's all right because Bloom and DeWitt are getting that talent pipeline up to speed and int 2 or 10 years they'll be a juggernaut. The difference between spending to win or tanking. Oh excuse me, I meant "rebuilding".

He only looks good against us. He’s hitting over .400 vs us in July and .177 vs everyone else.

True that, but you have to add in the games against "us". Also, he has a track record. Did the Cubs overpay? Most likely. But I'd rather the team try and overpay than tank and not even try to win. Wouldn't you?

[Ozziesfan41]

But that's all right because Bloom and DeWitt are getting that talent pipeline up to speed and int 2 or 10 years they'll be a juggernaut. The difference between spending to win or tanking. Oh excuse me, I meant "rebuilding".

He only looks good against us. He’s hitting over .400 vs us in July and .177 vs everyone else.

True that, but you have to add in the games against "us". Also, he has a track record. Did the Cubs overpay? Most likely. But I'd rather the team try and overpay than tank and not even try to win. Wouldn't you?

So you loved the Fowler contract huh? And the mikolas and Matt carpenter extensions were really great because they were a lot of money and showed they were trying lol

[CCard]

But that's all right because Bloom and DeWitt are getting that talent pipeline up to speed and int 2 or 10 years they'll be a juggernaut. The difference between spending to win or tanking. Oh excuse me, I meant "rebuilding".

He only looks good against us. He’s hitting over .400 vs us in July and .177 vs everyone else.

True that, but you have to add in the games against "us". Also, he has a track record. Did the Cubs overpay? Most likely. But I'd rather the team try and overpay than tank and not even try to win. Wouldn't you?

So you loved the Fowler contract huh? And the mikolas and Matt carpenter extensions were really great because they were a lot of money and showed they were trying lol

At the team it was suspect but better than the alternative. He was part of a World Series Championship. Very few players ever live up to expectations. At one time some of the fans wanted to get rid of Christian Yelich in Milwaukee. But they were very happy with the first few seasons of mvp like play.

[Ozziesfan41]

But that's all right because Bloom and DeWitt are getting that talent pipeline up to speed and int 2 or 10 years they'll be a juggernaut. The difference between spending to win or tanking. Oh excuse me, I meant "rebuilding".

He only looks good against us. He’s hitting over .400 vs us in July and .177 vs everyone else.

True that, but you have to add in the games against "us". Also, he has a track record. Did the Cubs overpay? Most likely. But I'd rather the team try and overpay than tank and not even try to win. Wouldn't you?

So you loved the Fowler contract huh? And the mikolas and Matt carpenter extensions were really great because they were a lot of money and showed they were trying lol

At the team it was suspect but better than the alternative. He was part of a World Series Championship. Very few players ever live up to expectations. At one time some of the fans wanted to get rid of Christian Yelich in Milwaukee. But they were very happy with the first few seasons of mvp like play.

So very few players live up to expectations but it’s vital the Cardinals spend a bunch of money on player who want live up to those expectations okay lol

[ecleme22]

But that's all right because Bloom and DeWitt are getting that talent pipeline up to speed and int 2 or 10 years they'll be a juggernaut. The difference between spending to win or tanking. Oh excuse me, I meant "rebuilding".

He only looks good against us. He’s hitting over .400 vs us in July and .177 vs everyone else.

True that, but you have to add in the games against "us". Also, he has a track record. Did the Cubs overpay? Most likely. But I'd rather the team try and overpay than tank and not even try to win. Wouldn't you?

So you loved the Fowler contract huh? And the mikolas and Matt carpenter extensions were really great because they were a lot of money and showed they were trying lol

At the team it was suspect but better than the alternative. He was part of a World Series Championship. Very few players ever live up to expectations. At one time some of the fans wanted to get rid of Christian Yelich in Milwaukee. But they were very happy with the first few seasons of mvp like play.

You said you would’ve traded Donovan unless he signed an extension. Why? He had two more years

[CCard]

But that's all right because Bloom and DeWitt are getting that talent pipeline up to speed and int 2 or 10 years they'll be a juggernaut. The difference between spending to win or tanking. Oh excuse me, I meant "rebuilding".

He only looks good against us. He’s hitting over .400 vs us in July and .177 vs everyone else.

True that, but you have to add in the games against "us". Also, he has a track record. Did the Cubs overpay? Most likely. But I'd rather the team try and overpay than tank and not even try to win. Wouldn't you?

So you loved the Fowler contract huh? And the mikolas and Matt carpenter extensions were really great because they were a lot of money and showed they were trying lol

At the team it was suspect but better than the alternative. He was part of a World Series Championship. Very few players ever live up to expectations. At one time some of the fans wanted to get rid of Christian Yelich in Milwaukee. But they were very happy with the first few seasons of mvp like play.

You said you would’ve traded Donovan unless he signed an extension. Why? He had two more years

I wasn't aware he had two more years. I probably wouldn't have traded him then.

[CCard]

But that's all right because Bloom and DeWitt are getting that talent pipeline up to speed and int 2 or 10 years they'll be a juggernaut. The difference between spending to win or tanking. Oh excuse me, I meant "rebuilding".

He only looks good against us. He’s hitting over .400 vs us in July and .177 vs everyone else.

True that, but you have to add in the games against "us". Also, he has a track record. Did the Cubs overpay? Most likely. But I'd rather the team try and overpay than tank and not even try to win. Wouldn't you?

So you loved the Fowler contract huh? And the mikolas and Matt carpenter extensions were really great because they were a lot of money and showed they were trying lol

At the team it was suspect but better than the alternative. He was part of a World Series Championship. Very few players ever live up to expectations. At one time some of the fans wanted to get rid of Christian Yelich in Milwaukee. But they were very happy with the first few seasons of mvp like play.

So very few players live up to expectations but it’s vital the Cardinals spend a bunch of money on player who want live up to those expectations okay lol

Your ilk just can't admit that your whole philosophy is wrong. While teams that spend money go out there year after year and win. Something is wrong with the mentality that suffering long term results in championships.

[mattmitchl44]

But that's all right because Bloom and DeWitt are getting that talent pipeline up to speed and int 2 or 10 years they'll be a juggernaut. The difference between spending to win or tanking. Oh excuse me, I meant "rebuilding".

The guy making $35 mil a year with an OPS+ of 100?

Look at his career stats and sneer. Where would he be on the depth chart for the Cards?

You're right. Pay no attention to the stats in front of you. Instead justify your answer by looking at past performance.

Short sample size bias. You have no idea how his entire season will go. I have no real axe to grind here. I'm no huge fan of Bregman. Did the Cubs overpay? Maybe. Probably. But they have a legitimate bat at third base and he just beat the Cards today. At least they're trying to win. The Cards ownership made it clear from the get go that they want to lose. I can't support that bull.

And that is exactly what you DON'T do when you don't have a sufficient core of young, cost controlled players ready to "win now."

AFTER the Cardinals have a sufficient core of young, cost controlled players in place, maybe then you can think about paying/overpaying for that last piece or two that you need to "win now."

But it would just be foolish to for them to lock themselves into a deal like Bregman's (who is likely to continue declining in the mid-to-late 30s) now when they aren't ready to compete.

Spending has to be smart and timely if a team like the Cardinals is going to win another WS anytime soon.

Saving BILLIONAIRE owners money is the primary concern. Because competing yearly is too much effort. Meanwhile, teams like the Cubs will probably get their tickets punched and have a chance to win the whole thing. You must be so happy.

It's not about "saving billionaire owners money." It's about acknowledging that this team is going to have a BUDGET - every single team, business, government, etc. has a BUDGET - whether you think they should have a budget or not. And even if/when that budget goes back up to $170, $180, etc. million, you don't want them to be holding bad contracts that they signed one, two, three years prior just to "do something!" to act like they were "competing."

You don't deal in reality.

1. Who benefits from cutting payroll? Ownership.
2. The budget shouldn't be $98 million dollars....ever. The only purpose is losing.
3. You, I or ownership can never know whether a contract will be bad. It's a
(bleep) shoot. Nobody could have expected the cliff that the co mvp's would have
fallen off of. They just locked up Wetherholt long term. What if he fails? No one
knows for sure. His career could end tomorrow.
4.This team should be spending double what they're spending on talent. It would look
like a different team if that was true. You know it, I know it and any sane person
knows it.
5.The goal should be to compete every year. Not tank to gather breadcrumbs for your
mythical pie. It's a slap in the face to fans, a travesty to the game and a flawed
philosophy that some like you seem to have some kind of fetish for.

If you don't want to win every year then why field a team every year. Just forfeit all the games until you can build up your crumbs. It's asinine. Reality? I would argue that my point of view is reality and yours is a fantasy. Even after years of suffering you can offer no guarantee of winning anything. You know it and I know it and everyone knows it.

What you should know is that when you sign a player like Bregman in his 30s to a five year contract, you are hoping he goes:

Year 1 - good
Year 2 - good
Year 3 - average
Year 4 - bad
Year 5 - bad

so that the contract you signed him to doesn't look terrible in total. But you need to be ready to "win now" in Year 1-3 of that contract, not Year 4-5.

That's why is makes no sense for the Cardinals - who clearly aren't ready to "win now" - to invest in players like Bregman, even if they are good for a year or two. Because by the time the young core of players IS ready to compete, the Bregmans you signed three year ago will probably be in their "bad" years at the end of those contracts - and then you won't be able to really compete then either.

You sign your Bregmans AFTER you have rebuilt your young core players so you combine that young core which is ready to "win now" with likely the best years of your big FA signings. That is how you actually compete.