Serious Managerial Question

[JuanAgosto]

IMO he’s here until Bloom thinks he’s given him a roster that should win but Oli continues with his mismanagement of the pen and idiotic lineups. So probably next year or 28.

I saw where Jeff Jones reported today's lineup was a mistake. That Herrerea was supposed to bat 2nd and Walker 4th. But oli turned in an erroneous card.

Where did you see that?

He had posted it on X yesterday.

Yea I believed you saw it I questioned the accuracy of the information. I read on a little and someone else cleared it up. Jeff Jones is like Bernie. Take the accuracy of his information at your own risk. Thanks

I would think misinformation or false reporting would end a reporter's access to the team. Maybe not.

I don’t think either one of those guys has "access" to the team. Reporting isn't what it used to be. Guys used to check their sources before printing things. I think now they hear one unsubstantiated rumor and it gets printed. There's still a few guys that don't print things unless they're 100% sure. Than they get made fun of for getting "scooped".

Sure they do. Jones would have access through his position at the Belleville newspaper.

[hmoss859]

DeWitt makes call on manager, period, full stop

He’ll ask his GM his thoughts on matter but really who is going to butt heads with owner, You will get fired

[imyourhuckleberry]

DeWitt makes call on manager, period, full stop

He’ll ask his GM his thoughts on matter but really who is going to butt heads with owner, You will get fired

I don't know that's true. DeWitt gets final sign off, as he should because he's signing the check. But I don't think Bloom takes the job without being able to make the decisions on his coaching staff. If he did, he won't be here long.

[10CWilliams]

He's here until Bloom think the team is ready to compete. He's a place holder to take the heat during the re-build. My guess is he is relieved of his duties after next season, assuming there is a next season.

Best take in the thread.
Nice post.
I would add that DeWitt is famously loyal.
It is why The Marmot was hired and why he is still here.
Same as Shildt.
And then Shildt got fired when he tried to be something more than a yes man.
The Marmot learned from that and intentionally chose to comply.
But Super Slo Mo is no longer around to protect him from failure and incompetence.
You are correct - Bloom will fire him once DeWitt permits it.

JMO:

Shildt was a pro-active manager who made baseball moves in hopes of affecting the outcome and had some bumps in the road but was well on his way to becoming a good baseball manager. I agree he was fired because he refused to be a "yes" man.

Sidebar: I believe that is why Stubby has never been manager.

Oli makes out the lineup card and is mostly done until it's BP time. He doesn't have much to work with there, from his side or the baseball side.

My standard, which of course is meaningless outside of my mind is: Can the manager at least occasionally outmanage the opposing manager? I don't recall Matheny ever doing this and I don't recall Oli ever doing it.

I do agree with the Huckleberry post. The Cardinals are not likely to ever be the most talented team in baseball; therefore, they need a manager who can contribute wins and that IMO is not Oli.

[2ninr]

IMO he’s here until Bloom thinks he’s given him a roster that should win but Oli continues with his mismanagement of the pen and idiotic lineups. So probably next year or 28.

I saw where Jeff Jones reported today's lineup was a mistake. That Herrerea was supposed to bat 2nd and Walker 4th. But oli turned in an erroneous card.

Where did you see that?

He had posted it on X yesterday.

Yea I believed you saw it I questioned the accuracy of the information. I read on a little and someone else cleared it up. Jeff Jones is like Bernie. Take the accuracy of his information at your own risk. Thanks

I would think misinformation or false reporting would end a reporter's access to the team. Maybe not.

I don’t think either one of those guys has "access" to the team. Reporting isn't what it used to be. Guys used to check their sources before printing things. I think now they hear one unsubstantiated rumor and it gets printed. There's still a few guys that don't print things unless they're 100% sure. Than they get made fun of for getting "scooped".

Sure they do. Jones would have access through his position at the Belleville newspaper.

What's your definition of "access" ? They let him in the locker room with a microphone after the game?

[Melville]

He's here until Bloom think the team is ready to compete. He's a place holder to take the heat during the re-build. My guess is he is relieved of his duties after next season, assuming there is a next season.

Best take in the thread.
Nice post.
I would add that DeWitt is famously loyal.
It is why The Marmot was hired and why he is still here.
Same as Shildt.
And then Shildt got fired when he tried to be something more than a yes man.
The Marmot learned from that and intentionally chose to comply.
But Super Slo Mo is no longer around to protect him from failure and incompetence.
You are correct - Bloom will fire him once DeWitt permits it.

JMO:

Shildt was a pro-active manager who made baseball moves in hopes of affecting the outcome and had some bumps in the road but was well on his way to becoming a good baseball manager. I agree he was fired because he refused to be a "yes" man.

Sidebar: I believe that is why Stubby has never been manager.

Oli makes out the lineup card and is mostly done until it's BP time. He doesn't have much to work with there, from his side or the baseball side.

My standard, which of course is meaningless outside of my mind is: Can the manager at least occasionally outmanage the opposing manager? I don't recall Matheny ever doing this and I don't recall Oli ever doing it.

I do agree with the Huckleberry post. The Cardinals are not likely to ever be the most talented team in baseball; therefore, they need a manager who can contribute wins and that IMO is not Oli.

That is a high quality post.
Nicely done.
More please.

[JuanAgosto]

IMO he’s here until Bloom thinks he’s given him a roster that should win but Oli continues with his mismanagement of the pen and idiotic lineups. So probably next year or 28.

I saw where Jeff Jones reported today's lineup was a mistake. That Herrerea was supposed to bat 2nd and Walker 4th. But oli turned in an erroneous card.

Where did you see that?

He had posted it on X yesterday.

Yea I believed you saw it I questioned the accuracy of the information. I read on a little and someone else cleared it up. Jeff Jones is like Bernie. Take the accuracy of his information at your own risk. Thanks

I would think misinformation or false reporting would end a reporter's access to the team. Maybe not.

I don’t think either one of those guys has "access" to the team. Reporting isn't what it used to be. Guys used to check their sources before printing things. I think now they hear one unsubstantiated rumor and it gets printed. There's still a few guys that don't print things unless they're 100% sure. Than they get made fun of for getting "scooped".

Sure they do. Jones would have access through his position at the Belleville newspaper.

What's your definition of "access" ? They let him in the locker room with a microphone after the game?

Would that not be access? Or he could have contacts within the organization (including oli), that shares info. That is also access. I doubt Jones sits at his desk all day dreaming up stories to write.

[woofy25]

The Marmol haters will be saying the exact same things about the new Manager, whenever that comes. You were saying the same things about TLR, Matheny and Shildt. Therefore, it doesn't matter who the Manager is, you will all feel the same way.

This team would not be much better or much worse with anyone else leading this team. Managers only matter in the playoffs. During the regular season, a team is only as good as the roster. A good Manager will not manage a bad team to the playoffs. Good teams can carry a bad Manager however.

Roster, roster, roster. That's the only thing that matters until October. Keep on complaining though. Fans bashing the Manager dates back to the beginning of baseball. It's about as dumb as believing a politician's campaign promises.

So a manager can win 9inning BASEBALL GAMES in the postseason but not in the regular season. Please outline your logic. Do they receive special powers once the PS starts?

Certainly there is influence from the manager during the regular season but it’s often hard to pinpoint a decision that clearly wins or loses a game and quite difficult to quantify how many games a manager is responsible for winning and losing over 162.

And sure i can outline my logic. Every decision is magnified in a win or go home series. All hands are on deck with the bullpen during the playoffs. The manager doesn’t get to hide with guys being unavailable. In the regular season, youre not going to be able to use your best relievers every night, so there’s a bit of built in excuse for the pen giving up some games. And while all hands are on deck, choosing when and how to deploy them is crucial. Also, a manager chooses 3-4 starters in a postseason series and it’s not always clear who they should be. Then, it’s not clear what to do with the remaining starters, bullpen or off the roster. Do you put a one tool speedster on the roster just to run, or do you put the utility guy on the roster who gives a little flexibility?
A manager is more likely to make decisions in the postseason he wouldn’t otherwise make during a regular season game, such as starting a pitcher on short rest, pinch runners, defensive substitutions, aggressive or passive defensive positioning in early innings, sac bunts, pulling a pitcher earlier than normal, or trusting your ace to go longer than you would in May, putting in a late inning lefty in the sixth bc power hitting lefties are due up. Those decisions have to be right most of the time. They all come with potential downside to single handedly win or lose a game. The number of decisions increases and the unorthodoxy of them increases in the postseason

Some examples: helsley is likely on the IL or at least unavailable in a regular season game against the Phillies. Quintana probably stays in longer too. Chris carpenter may not have gone out in the 9th in an April game against the Phillies. Michael Wacha isn’t an option against the giants in June. Kolton Wong may not be pinch running in July since he wasn’t the potential game tying or winning run

In the regular season, every game is not win at all costs. You’re not just concerned about the next game on the schedule. Marmol may have to pitch Stanek in a situation he’d rather pitch Soriano. He has to put a liberatore on the mound every fifth day. He may play a young guy through some growing pains, hoping for a long-term payoff in return for a potential short term L. A managers hands are tied more in the regular season than the postseason.

[2ninr]

IMO he’s here until Bloom thinks he’s given him a roster that should win but Oli continues with his mismanagement of the pen and idiotic lineups. So probably next year or 28.

I saw where Jeff Jones reported today's lineup was a mistake. That Herrerea was supposed to bat 2nd and Walker 4th. But oli turned in an erroneous card.

Where did you see that?

He had posted it on X yesterday.

Yea I believed you saw it I questioned the accuracy of the information. I read on a little and someone else cleared it up. Jeff Jones is like Bernie. Take the accuracy of his information at your own risk. Thanks

I would think misinformation or false reporting would end a reporter's access to the team. Maybe not.

I don’t think either one of those guys has "access" to the team. Reporting isn't what it used to be. Guys used to check their sources before printing things. I think now they hear one unsubstantiated rumor and it gets printed. There's still a few guys that don't print things unless they're 100% sure. Than they get made fun of for getting "scooped".

Sure they do. Jones would have access through his position at the Belleville newspaper.

What's your definition of "access" ? They let him in the locker room with a microphone after the game?

Would that not be access? Or he could have contacts within the organization (including oli), that shares info. That is also access. I doubt Jones sits at his desk all day dreaming up stories to write.

I seriously doubt he has contacts within the organization unless he's getting info from really low level employees. They have a contractual obligation to allow credentialed reporters access to the team for a period of time after the game. That wasn't a complimentary thing he put out there about the lineup card. Do you think he would write something like that and risk getting anything but short answers to questions he asks if he WAS actually getting any type of real information? Especially from Oli. The players don't like a lot of these guys. The ones they do are respectful of their space and situation after tough games. They're the ones who get good information for readers.

[JuanAgosto]

He's here until Bloom think the team is ready to compete. He's a place holder to take the heat during the re-build. My guess is he is relieved of his duties after next season, assuming there is a next season.

Best take in the thread.
Nice post.
I would add that DeWitt is famously loyal.
It is why The Marmot was hired and why he is still here.
Same as Shildt.
And then Shildt got fired when he tried to be something more than a yes man.
The Marmot learned from that and intentionally chose to comply.
But Super Slo Mo is no longer around to protect him from failure and incompetence.
You are correct - Bloom will fire him once DeWitt permits it.

JMO:

Shildt was a pro-active manager who made baseball moves in hopes of affecting the outcome and had some bumps in the road but was well on his way to becoming a good baseball manager. I agree he was fired because he refused to be a "yes" man.

Sidebar: I believe that is why Stubby has never been manager.

Oli makes out the lineup card and is mostly done until it's BP time. He doesn't have much to work with there, from his side or the baseball side.

My standard, which of course is meaningless outside of my mind is: Can the manager at least occasionally outmanage the opposing manager? I don't recall Matheny ever doing this and I don't recall Oli ever doing it.

I do agree with the Huckleberry post. The Cardinals are not likely to ever be the most talented team in baseball; therefore, they need a manager who can contribute wins and that IMO is not Oli.

Oli couldn't out manage Fredbird

[JuanAgosto]

IMO he’s here until Bloom thinks he’s given him a roster that should win but Oli continues with his mismanagement of the pen and idiotic lineups. So probably next year or 28.

I saw where Jeff Jones reported today's lineup was a mistake. That Herrerea was supposed to bat 2nd and Walker 4th. But oli turned in an erroneous card.

Where did you see that?

He had posted it on X yesterday.

Yea I believed you saw it I questioned the accuracy of the information. I read on a little and someone else cleared it up. Jeff Jones is like Bernie. Take the accuracy of his information at your own risk. Thanks

I would think misinformation or false reporting would end a reporter's access to the team. Maybe not.

I don’t think either one of those guys has "access" to the team. Reporting isn't what it used to be. Guys used to check their sources before printing things. I think now they hear one unsubstantiated rumor and it gets printed. There's still a few guys that don't print things unless they're 100% sure. Than they get made fun of for getting "scooped".

Sure they do. Jones would have access through his position at the Belleville newspaper.

What's your definition of "access" ? They let him in the locker room with a microphone after the game?

Would that not be access? Or he could have contacts within the organization (including oli), that shares info. That is also access. I doubt Jones sits at his desk all day dreaming up stories to write.

I seriously doubt he has contacts within the organization unless he's getting info from really low level employees. They have a contractual obligation to allow credentialed reporters access to the team for a period of time after the game. That wasn't a complimentary thing he put out there about the lineup card. Do you think he would write something like that and risk getting anything but short answers to questions he asks if he WAS actually getting any type of real information? Especially from Oli. The players don't like a lot of these guys. The ones they do are respectful of their space and situation after tough games. They're the ones who get good information for readers.

He has been credited with breaking too many stories in the past to not have access. National guys have credited Jones. The lineup card is not some story slamming oli. And I cant imagine cards players having many issues with the weak (donkey) StL media.

[2ninr]

IMO he’s here until Bloom thinks he’s given him a roster that should win but Oli continues with his mismanagement of the pen and idiotic lineups. So probably next year or 28.

I saw where Jeff Jones reported today's lineup was a mistake. That Herrerea was supposed to bat 2nd and Walker 4th. But oli turned in an erroneous card.

Where did you see that?

He had posted it on X yesterday.

Yea I believed you saw it I questioned the accuracy of the information. I read on a little and someone else cleared it up. Jeff Jones is like Bernie. Take the accuracy of his information at your own risk. Thanks

I would think misinformation or false reporting would end a reporter's access to the team. Maybe not.

I don’t think either one of those guys has "access" to the team. Reporting isn't what it used to be. Guys used to check their sources before printing things. I think now they hear one unsubstantiated rumor and it gets printed. There's still a few guys that don't print things unless they're 100% sure. Than they get made fun of for getting "scooped".

Sure they do. Jones would have access through his position at the Belleville newspaper.

What's your definition of "access" ? They let him in the locker room with a microphone after the game?

Would that not be access? Or he could have contacts within the organization (including oli), that shares info. That is also access. I doubt Jones sits at his desk all day dreaming up stories to write.

I seriously doubt he has contacts within the organization unless he's getting info from really low level employees. They have a contractual obligation to allow credentialed reporters access to the team for a period of time after the game. That wasn't a complimentary thing he put out there about the lineup card. Do you think he would write something like that and risk getting anything but short answers to questions he asks if he WAS actually getting any type of real information? Especially from Oli. The players don't like a lot of these guys. The ones they do are respectful of their space and situation after tough games. They're the ones who get good information for readers.

He has been credited with breaking too many stories in the past to not have access. National guys have credited Jones. The lineup card is not some story slamming oli. And I cant imagine cards players having many issues with the weak (donkey) StL media.

Cumbo on X: "@incarceratedbob Jeff jones robbed a bank https://t.co/RXytuUgNpR" / X https://share.google/KFPc5PQw8NidSDwym

Best I can do. This from Incarcerated Bob. Have a nice evening.

[JuanAgosto]

I saw where Jeff Jones reported today's lineup was a mistake. That Herrerea was supposed to bat 2nd and Walker 4th. But oli turned in an erroneous card.

Where did you see that?

He had posted it on X yesterday.

Yea I believed you saw it I questioned the accuracy of the information. I read on a little and someone else cleared it up. Jeff Jones is like Bernie. Take the accuracy of his information at your own risk. Thanks

I would think misinformation or false reporting would end a reporter's access to the team. Maybe not.

I don’t think either one of those guys has "access" to the team. Reporting isn't what it used to be. Guys used to check their sources before printing things. I think now they hear one unsubstantiated rumor and it gets printed. There's still a few guys that don't print things unless they're 100% sure. Than they get made fun of for getting "scooped".

Sure they do. Jones would have access through his position at the Belleville newspaper.

What's your definition of "access" ? They let him in the locker room with a microphone after the game?

Would that not be access? Or he could have contacts within the organization (including oli), that shares info. That is also access. I doubt Jones sits at his desk all day dreaming up stories to write.

I seriously doubt he has contacts within the organization unless he's getting info from really low level employees. They have a contractual obligation to allow credentialed reporters access to the team for a period of time after the game. That wasn't a complimentary thing he put out there about the lineup card. Do you think he would write something like that and risk getting anything but short answers to questions he asks if he WAS actually getting any type of real information? Especially from Oli. The players don't like a lot of these guys. The ones they do are respectful of their space and situation after tough games. They're the ones who get good information for readers.

He has been credited with breaking too many stories in the past to not have access. National guys have credited Jones. The lineup card is not some story slamming oli. And I cant imagine cards players having many issues with the weak (donkey) StL media.

Cumbo on X: "@incarceratedbob Jeff jones robbed a bank https://t.co/RXytuUgNpR" / X https://share.google/KFPc5PQw8NidSDwym

Best I can do. This from Incarcerated Bob. Have a nice evening.

Ok, I attempted to research but am getting conflicting info. Is this the same Jeff Jones that robbed a bank?!

[2ninr]

Where did you see that?

He had posted it on X yesterday.

Yea I believed you saw it I questioned the accuracy of the information. I read on a little and someone else cleared it up. Jeff Jones is like Bernie. Take the accuracy of his information at your own risk. Thanks

I would think misinformation or false reporting would end a reporter's access to the team. Maybe not.

I don’t think either one of those guys has "access" to the team. Reporting isn't what it used to be. Guys used to check their sources before printing things. I think now they hear one unsubstantiated rumor and it gets printed. There's still a few guys that don't print things unless they're 100% sure. Than they get made fun of for getting "scooped".

Sure they do. Jones would have access through his position at the Belleville newspaper.

What's your definition of "access" ? They let him in the locker room with a microphone after the game?

Would that not be access? Or he could have contacts within the organization (including oli), that shares info. That is also access. I doubt Jones sits at his desk all day dreaming up stories to write.

I seriously doubt he has contacts within the organization unless he's getting info from really low level employees. They have a contractual obligation to allow credentialed reporters access to the team for a period of time after the game. That wasn't a complimentary thing he put out there about the lineup card. Do you think he would write something like that and risk getting anything but short answers to questions he asks if he WAS actually getting any type of real information? Especially from Oli. The players don't like a lot of these guys. The ones they do are respectful of their space and situation after tough games. They're the ones who get good information for readers.

He has been credited with breaking too many stories in the past to not have access. National guys have credited Jones. The lineup card is not some story slamming oli. And I cant imagine cards players having many issues with the weak (donkey) StL media.

Cumbo on X: "@incarceratedbob Jeff jones robbed a bank https://t.co/RXytuUgNpR" / X https://share.google/KFPc5PQw8NidSDwym

Best I can do. This from Incarcerated Bob. Have a nice evening.

Ok, I attempted to research but am getting conflicting info. Is this the same Jeff Jones that robbed a bank?!

Yes. Look at the picture of IB. He has a cardinals hat on.

[RunSup]

Oli Marmol is a lightening rod on this forum. Some strongly support him, others blame him for every world misfortune. So I was wondering, what would cause a managerial change?

Some think BDW and Bloom are waiting for the new CBA. Others (myself included), think Oli is probably here for a while.

So what do you think, Cards Talkers? What could lead to a managerial change? And who would you like to see get the job?

Oli is here through 2028. Then Bloom will re-assess. He gets another free pass in 2027.

[JuanAgosto]

He had posted it on X yesterday.

Yea I believed you saw it I questioned the accuracy of the information. I read on a little and someone else cleared it up. Jeff Jones is like Bernie. Take the accuracy of his information at your own risk. Thanks

I would think misinformation or false reporting would end a reporter's access to the team. Maybe not.

I don’t think either one of those guys has "access" to the team. Reporting isn't what it used to be. Guys used to check their sources before printing things. I think now they hear one unsubstantiated rumor and it gets printed. There's still a few guys that don't print things unless they're 100% sure. Than they get made fun of for getting "scooped".

Sure they do. Jones would have access through his position at the Belleville newspaper.

What's your definition of "access" ? They let him in the locker room with a microphone after the game?

Would that not be access? Or he could have contacts within the organization (including oli), that shares info. That is also access. I doubt Jones sits at his desk all day dreaming up stories to write.

I seriously doubt he has contacts within the organization unless he's getting info from really low level employees. They have a contractual obligation to allow credentialed reporters access to the team for a period of time after the game. That wasn't a complimentary thing he put out there about the lineup card. Do you think he would write something like that and risk getting anything but short answers to questions he asks if he WAS actually getting any type of real information? Especially from Oli. The players don't like a lot of these guys. The ones they do are respectful of their space and situation after tough games. They're the ones who get good information for readers.

He has been credited with breaking too many stories in the past to not have access. National guys have credited Jones. The lineup card is not some story slamming oli. And I cant imagine cards players having many issues with the weak (donkey) StL media.

Cumbo on X: "@incarceratedbob Jeff jones robbed a bank https://t.co/RXytuUgNpR" / X https://share.google/KFPc5PQw8NidSDwym

Best I can do. This from Incarcerated Bob. Have a nice evening.

Ok, I attempted to research but am getting conflicting info. Is this the same Jeff Jones that robbed a bank?!

Yes. Look at the picture of IB. He has a cardinals hat on.

It is metro east area. A StL hat wouldn't be unusual. But if it is the same Jeff Jones, I'd be shocked he had access to the press box at Busch.