At the moment Arozarena is producing more. Liberatore is 5 years younger which is the only advantage I see to the trade.
We are still doing this? it's beyond time to move on. There's already been 4,368 threads on this. we don't need a 4,369
It's relevant since both are still active.
What is relevant about Seattle needing to proffer a QO or wave good bye bye to Arozarena.... and the Cardinals having contract control thru 2029 of Libby.
Or if, on the Cardinals, Randy could’ve helped the 2020-2025 teams out, then traded last offseason for a return maybe as good as Donovan’s… for players better than Libby.
Gee, you convinced me. Make it happen.
You’re a little butt sore because you lost this argument a long time ago.
Now you’re clinging to Libby’s years of control left as a victory.
But if that’s your measuring stick, we could have Randy now, and trade him for player(s) with FULL team control.
At the moment Arozarena is producing more. Liberatore is 5 years younger which is the only advantage I see to the trade.
Just my take on this, and I am posting this as the longest standing critic of Mo on this board.
1. We all know Arozarena was deemed expendable by the organization because of the viral stream which embarrassed the organization.
2. Mo is gone. It’s time to turn the page on his past mistakes and look at what they are building towards.
3. This is one thing I will defend Mo on, when he made the trade he had no way of knowing that a pandemic was going to wipe out the minor league season and Libby would be out for a year before he could start developing.
4. Teams are going to win and lose trades, dwelling on them is pointless.
5. Arozarena is no longer a Ray, it’s not likely they would have kept him here,
6. The Arozarena trade, Alcantara trade and several other moves were key in exposing severe issues in player development and player roster decisions, this organization needed those desperately exposed so they could be corrected. Mo wasn’t going to be the person to fix them.
John Rooney mentioned the trade on a recent broadcast saying he thought most fans now would agree the Cardinals got the better of the deal. Both players are still in MLB and Liberatore is in the Cardinals rotation.
At the moment Arozarena is producing more. Liberatore is 5 years younger which is the only advantage I see to the trade.
Just my take on this, and I am posting this as the longest standing critic of Mo on this board.
1. We all know Arozarena was deemed expendable by the organization because of the viral stream which embarrassed the organization.
2. Mo is gone. It’s time to turn the page on his past mistakes and look at what they are building towards.
3. This is one thing I will defend Mo on, when he made the trade he had no way of knowing that a pandemic was going to wipe out the minor league season and Libby would be out for a year before he could start developing.
4. Teams are going to win and lose trades, dwelling on them is pointless.
5. Arozarena is no longer a Ray, it’s not likely they would have kept him here,
6. The Arozarena trade, Alcantara trade and several other moves were key in exposing severe issues in player development and player roster decisions, this organization needed those desperately exposed so they could be corrected. Mo wasn’t going to be the person to fix them.
John Rooney mentioned the trade on a recent broadcast saying he thought most fans now would agree the Cardinals got the better of the deal. Both players are still in MLB and Liberatore is in the Cardinals rotation.
In what world did the Cardinals win this trade. I'm not bashing the trade as just don't see how The Cardinals came out a winner.
Mo gets a lot of blame for this trade, which is completely understandable, he was the POBO, so everything is ultimately on him.
However, I wonder how much Schildt pushed for him to be traded. We all have now heard about how he yelled and belittled and threatened people within the organization. Apparently he made a lot of demands to Mo or he would go. I can't imagine he was happy about that video of him cursing in the clubhouse after the game getting uploaded.
Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑19 May 2026 07:25 am
Mo gets a lot of blame for this trade, which is completely understandable, he was the POBO, so everything is ultimately on him.
However, I wonder how much Schildt pushed for him to be traded. We all have now heard about how he yelled and belittled and threatened people within the organization. Apparently he made a lot of demands to Mo or he would go. I can't imagine he was happy about that video of him cursing in the clubhouse after the game getting uploaded.
Interesting thought. Let's look at your theory and the standard one.
1. Standard one: Randy was part of a bigger effort to remove redundancies from the roster (See Randy, JMart, Garcia and Ozuna). Mo liked TO and HB. Carlson was coming. Fowler under contract. And, often forgotten about, Edman and Thomas had nice showings in 2019——the former had nowhere on the infield to play in 2020. Fastforward to 2020-2022, we can see that Mo had no interest in adding to the OF. He wanted max playing time for 'his' guys.
2. Your theory: Let's assume your theory is correct that Shildt pushed RA to be traded. In that scenario, it's still Mo's fault. Why? Because if Mo had any pulse on the org's talent evaluation, he would've vetoed this request from Mike. But as things turned out, Mo probably thought Thomas and Randy were similar players, making the latter expendable...
At the moment Arozarena is producing more. Liberatore is 5 years younger which is the only advantage I see to the trade.
Just my take on this, and I am posting this as the longest standing critic of Mo on this board.
1. We all know Arozarena was deemed expendable by the organization because of the viral stream which embarrassed the organization.
2. Mo is gone. It’s time to turn the page on his past mistakes and look at what they are building towards.
3. This is one thing I will defend Mo on, when he made the trade he had no way of knowing that a pandemic was going to wipe out the minor league season and Libby would be out for a year before he could start developing.
4. Teams are going to win and lose trades, dwelling on them is pointless.
5. Arozarena is no longer a Ray, it’s not likely they would have kept him here,
6. The Arozarena trade, Alcantara trade and several other moves were key in exposing severe issues in player development and player roster decisions, this organization needed those desperately exposed so they could be corrected. Mo wasn’t going to be the person to fix them.
John Rooney mentioned the trade on a recent broadcast saying he thought most fans now would agree the Cardinals got the better of the deal. Both players are still in MLB and Liberatore is in the Cardinals rotation.
If Rooney said that, he’s a bigger shill than we already knew.
Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑19 May 2026 07:25 am
Mo gets a lot of blame for this trade, which is completely understandable, he was the POBO, so everything is ultimately on him.
However, I wonder how much Schildt pushed for him to be traded. We all have now heard about how he yelled and belittled and threatened people within the organization. Apparently he made a lot of demands to Mo or he would go. I can't imagine he was happy about that video of him cursing in the clubhouse after the game getting uploaded.
Mozeliak was never going keep Arozarena after the organization was embarrassed by the video.
ecleme22 wrote: ↑19 May 2026 07:59 amInteresting thought. Let's look at your theory and the standard one.
1. Standard one: Randy was part of a bigger effort to remove redundancies from the roster (See Randy, JMart, Garcia and Ozuna). Mo liked TO and HB. Carlson was coming. Fowler under contract. And, often forgotten about, Edman and Thomas had nice showings in 2019——the former had nowhere on the infield to play in 2020. Fastforward to 2020-2022, we can see that Mo had no interest in adding to the OF. He wanted max playing time for 'his' guys.
2. Your theory: Let's assume your theory is correct that Shildt pushed RA to be traded. In that scenario, it's still Mo's fault. Why? Because if Mo had any pulse on the org's talent evaluation, he would've vetoed this request from Mike. But as things turned out, Mo probably thought Thomas and Randy were similar players, making the latter expendable...
Number two makes number one a lot easier choice when you've got your manager screaming at you to trade the guy who uploaded the embarassing video of him.
ecleme22 wrote: ↑19 May 2026 07:59 amInteresting thought. Let's look at your theory and the standard one.
1. Standard one: Randy was part of a bigger effort to remove redundancies from the roster (See Randy, JMart, Garcia and Ozuna). Mo liked TO and HB. Carlson was coming. Fowler under contract. And, often forgotten about, Edman and Thomas had nice showings in 2019——the former had nowhere on the infield to play in 2020. Fastforward to 2020-2022, we can see that Mo had no interest in adding to the OF. He wanted max playing time for 'his' guys.
2. Your theory: Let's assume your theory is correct that Shildt pushed RA to be traded. In that scenario, it's still Mo's fault. Why? Because if Mo had any pulse on the org's talent evaluation, he would've vetoed this request from Mike. But as things turned out, Mo probably thought Thomas and Randy were similar players, making the latter expendable...
Number two makes number one a lot easier choice when you've got your manager screaming at you to trade the guy who uploaded the embarassing video of him.
If Mo valued RA's talent and removed him from the roster to suffice Shildt, he would've replaced the talent. He didn't.
It was a classic Mo move who hated roster competition.
At the moment Arozarena is producing more. Liberatore is 5 years younger which is the only advantage I see to the trade.
Just my take on this, and I am posting this as the longest standing critic of Mo on this board.
1. We all know Arozarena was deemed expendable by the organization because of the viral stream which embarrassed the organization.
2. Mo is gone. It’s time to turn the page on his past mistakes and look at what they are building towards.
3. This is one thing I will defend Mo on, when he made the trade he had no way of knowing that a pandemic was going to wipe out the minor league season and Libby would be out for a year before he could start developing.
4. Teams are going to win and lose trades, dwelling on them is pointless.
5. Arozarena is no longer a Ray, it’s not likely they would have kept him here,
6. The Arozarena trade, Alcantara trade and several other moves were key in exposing severe issues in player development and player roster decisions, this organization needed those desperately exposed so they could be corrected. Mo wasn’t going to be the person to fix them.
John Rooney mentioned the trade on a recent broadcast saying he thought most fans now would agree the Cardinals got the better of the deal. Both players are still in MLB and Liberatore is in the Cardinals rotation.
If Rooney said that, he’s a bigger shill than we already knew.
That take is ridiculous.
Rooney is fantastic. One of the best baseball announcers I've heard. He did say that in the recent series. At one time the trade looked bad but now most fans probably would think it's a good deal. As I said in the OP age is the big difference.
Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑19 May 2026 07:25 am
Mo gets a lot of blame for this trade, which is completely understandable, he was the POBO, so everything is ultimately on him.
However, I wonder how much Schildt pushed for him to be traded. We all have now heard about how he yelled and belittled and threatened people within the organization. Apparently he made a lot of demands to Mo or he would go. I can't imagine he was happy about that video of him cursing in the clubhouse after the game getting uploaded.
Mozeliak was never going keep Arozarena after the organization was embarrassed by the video.
People are talking about a video. I missed that. Is there a link to the video?
At the moment Arozarena is producing more. Liberatore is 5 years younger which is the only advantage I see to the trade.
Just my take on this, and I am posting this as the longest standing critic of Mo on this board.
1. We all know Arozarena was deemed expendable by the organization because of the viral stream which embarrassed the organization.
2. Mo is gone. It’s time to turn the page on his past mistakes and look at what they are building towards.
3. This is one thing I will defend Mo on, when he made the trade he had no way of knowing that a pandemic was going to wipe out the minor league season and Libby would be out for a year before he could start developing.
4. Teams are going to win and lose trades, dwelling on them is pointless.
5. Arozarena is no longer a Ray, it’s not likely they would have kept him here,
6. The Arozarena trade, Alcantara trade and several other moves were key in exposing severe issues in player development and player roster decisions, this organization needed those desperately exposed so they could be corrected. Mo wasn’t going to be the person to fix them.
John Rooney mentioned the trade on a recent broadcast saying he thought most fans now would agree the Cardinals got the better of the deal. Both players are still in MLB and Liberatore is in the Cardinals rotation.
If Rooney said that, he’s a bigger shill than we already knew.
That take is ridiculous.
Rooney is fantastic. One of the best baseball announcers I've heard. He did say that in the recent series. At one time the trade looked bad but now most fans probably would think it's a good deal. As I said in the OP age is the big difference.
Age means little. If the Cards had a 31 year old RA now, you can easily trade him for talent much young (and probably more talented) then Libby.
ecleme22 wrote: ↑19 May 2026 09:29 amIf Mo valued RA's talent and removed him from the roster to suffice Shildt, he would've replaced the talent. He didn't.
It was a classic Mo move who hated roster competition.
Not necessarily. Like you said, there were lots of up-and-coming options in the OF. If he was getting pressure from his manager to get rid of a guy, then he could do it and still keep the relative strength of those positions, while acquiring a possible front line LH starter, which they did not have anything close to at the time.
Look, I don’t know, and I really don’t care. What’s done is done and I’m not going to spend a lot of time on something that happened years ago. Mo gets the blame either way because he’s in charge, but there could have been other factors that we’ll never know about.
ecleme22 wrote: ↑19 May 2026 09:29 amIf Mo valued RA's talent and removed him from the roster to suffice Shildt, he would've replaced the talent. He didn't.
It was a classic Mo move who hated roster competition.
Not necessarily. Like you said, there were lots of up-and-coming options in the OF. If he was getting pressure from his manager to get rid of a guy, then he could do it and still keep the relative strength of those positions, while acquiring a possible front line LH starter, which they did not have anything close to at the time.
Look, I don’t know, and I really don’t care. What’s done is done and I’m not going to spend a lot of time on something that happened years ago. Mo gets the blame either way because he’s in charge, but there could have been other factors that we’ll never know about.
Here's what we do know: 1) Mo had a history of falling in love with certain players, 2) minimizing roster competition of said players and 3) not having a good grasp of talent evaluation.
I guarantee you if Edman or O'Neill, with good intentions, posted that video of Shildt, they would still be on the roster in 2020. Because he liked them and would've vetoed any Shildt request regarding them.
Remember...Randy was the BEST hitter in AAA that season and was called up AFTER Thomas and Edman. He was already a bit of an afterthought.
And remember, he was traded in a package with JMart. Embarrassingly, part of the reason Randy was traded was probably to 'unload' JMart's contract, which had 1yr/2mil left.
At the moment Arozarena is producing more. Liberatore is 5 years younger which is the only advantage I see to the trade.
We are still doing this? it's beyond time to move on. There's already been 4,368 threads on this. we don't need a 4,369
It's relevant since both are still active.
What is relevant about Seattle needing to proffer a QO or wave good bye bye to Arozarena.... and the Cardinals having contract control thru 2029 of Libby.
Or if, on the Cardinals, Randy could’ve helped the 2020-2025 teams out, then traded last offseason for a return maybe as good as Donovan’s… for players better than Libby.
Gee, you convinced me. Make it happen.
You’re a little butt sore because you lost this argument a long time ago.
Now you’re clinging to Libby’s years of control left as a victory.
But if that’s your measuring stick, we could have Randy now, and trade him for player(s) with FULL team control.
Of course, I am butt sore because some anonymous poster declared victory on a trade argument. You gotta work a lot harder to find anything that bothers me less.
You gotta work a lot harder to find anything that bothers me less.