Bloom on the course for this season

[Ozziesfan41]

No big additions this season

I would, however expect Bloom is already searching the back alleys of MLB for some help in the pen'

Im fine with them not being buyers at the deadline. But I hope they dont sabotage a post season possibility by being sellers. This group would benefit from playoff experience even if it is short-lived. A sell-off would only create more animosity from the fans.

As always. it depends on the deal.

If some team offers massive value for a guy that isn't part of our long-term future, you might make that deal even if if lessons the chance at a WC. The team can fight ahead anyway. You learn more from losing than winning.

The goal is to win the WS. Not surprise everyone by making a WC game.

+1

[Cusecards]

If they are still doing well in July, they might not sell some of their pieces (May, etc.), but they won't be significant buyers.

I agree. They've got a plan. stick with it. Bring more kids up, sort out the keepers. Let players develop. If they're competing for a playoff spot at the deadline, let the same kids work through that too.

The worst thing they could do is lose focus because the team is in the wild-card chase and try to rush the process. Stick with the plan. Let the team grow into a real WS contender.

I know a lot of fans were bent because they let the "stars' go, but I'm having more fun watching these kids grow than at anytime since the 2004 season.

Agree
Generally in the past they have “sold” players at the deadline who were pending FA’s that they have no intention of signing and wanted to get some value in return.
I don’t see players fitting that category except for May.
They have a plan and seem to be headed in the right direction.
Some patience is needed but in the meantime I’m enjoying watching them compete.

[Cusecards]

The question of "What if the Cardinals keep winning?" has been pervasive amongst Cardinals fans after the surprising start to the year. I read a (humorous) trade idea in the comments over at Viva El Birdos within the last week (I believe Kindred was the poster, IIRC, to credit my source).

But first the context . . .

The Cardinals are a very exciting young team at the moment that is a lot of fun to watch, compared to the past few years which where watching this team felt like a slog. This team has been pretty good offensively (even if they could use another bat in LF, 3B, and a RH platoon partner for 1B if we’re being greedy), and an exceptional one defensively. Their problems are on the mound. May (after a slow start) and McGreevy look like solid mid-rotation SPs, Pallante is having a good season thus far, and is probably a solid back of the rotation SP, or a very good swingman on a contender. Libby is still a bit of a mystery, but I think at worst he’s a solid back of the rotation SP. Leahy is another swingman who is ideally in the bullpen. This team severely lacks options in the bullpen at the moment where it’s hard to feel confident beyond ROB and JoJo. Pushing Leahy to the bullpen would help.

So the targets are clear:
-SP (mid-rotation at least)
-Backend RP (maybe more than one)

Now, the Cardinals also have players on expiring contracts (May, Romero) that fit into those categories that they could sell at the deadline and/or might not be part of the long term plan (ROB due to age). Even with manageable salaries ($10M for May, $4.26M for Romero) you’re unlikely to get a major return at the deadline for rentals like this. This works for and against the Cardinals. While it’s nice to get some filler depth of prospects by flipping players like this you’re unlikely to add meaningful pieces to your farm doing this. The Cardinals have made trades like this for a few years now, and they have pretty good depth in the minors at this point.

So the question becomes: Is it worth adding more depth by selling, or can we afford to spend some of that depth (not top prospects) by adding players like that at the deadline? Or even better, take on salary and pay even less in prospects?

This early in the year it’s hard to find teams that are already looking to sell off players, so this will likely have to wait a couple of months (unless you find a team really underperforming expectations, with a GM that might be in a tight spot, and a very specific motivation to make a move now). While the Mets are off to terrible starts they aren’t in a position where they can shed enough salary to get below luxury tax thresholds. The Phillies might be able to get below the 4th threshold by shedding $10M, but they also might see themselves as still able to compete this year, especially in a division with the Nationals and Marlins to beat up on.

There’s another team, in a much tougher division off to a terrible start, with a GM that might be feeling the pressure, and they are only $24M from the lowest threshold and thus resetting the clock on consecutive years exceeding the luxury tax threshold. This brings us back to our favorite trading partner, the Boston Red Sox. They need to move $24M to get below the $244M threshold.

If the Red Sox traded Sonny Gray, and Aroldis Chapman right now, they would shed $26.8M in payroll and drop to a $241M payroll. The longer they wait the less they shed. Both players have options for 2027 so they aren’t pure rentals. Gray is probably worth a fractions of what he was over the winter, and that’s going to keep going down as we approach the deadline. Also he has a NTC which he's used because he wanted to be in St. Louis, close to home (though the Braves could be an attractive landing spot), would he waive to come back? According to BTV Chapman’s contract is $5M underwater, but he’s off to a great start this year. They could also dump Garrett Whitlock, their setup man, making $7.5M this year and has two option years.

I know it’s crazy to talk about “undoing a trade” you just made a few months ago, but I think it actually makes a lot of sense, and they have two backend relievers that could be expired deals or options for next year (I think Chapman vests with 40 IP). All three players make $41.5M for the whole season, $24M is 93 games worth of that, or acquiring all three around the 69-70 game point of the season, or in a little more than a month from now. By then we’ll know if we’re still in the race, and if Boston is out of it in the AL. Would ownership be willing to add $24M in payroll to give us a SP and a RP (or two) to help this exciting team, and bring fans back to the ballpark? “You gotta spend money to make money”.

Imagine our current lineup with this pitching staff . . .

Gray, May, McGreevy, Libby, Pallante/Leahy/Dobbins
ROB, Chapman, Whitlock?, Romero, Fernandez, Graceffo, Soriano, Leahy/Svanson/Stanek/???

That team probably isn't going to win it all, but I think you can at least compete down the stretch with that team, and you haven't even spent all the money you saved by dumping contracts this winter. I know it's asking a lot for an "arbitrage" situation like this to occur, where we get a player back for less than we received selling them, but that's how what happens with assets with diminishing value. How many playoffs teams, or hopeful playoff teams, could potentially afford to add payroll like this to keep the prospect cost down? I think most of those teams are near the top of their budget already.

(No, I'm not going to expand the trade and get Willson Contreras back even though a RH hitting 1B/DH would do wonders for this roster).

It is incredible that the Cardinals young talent has made so much progress in the first 20% of this season that they would be viewed as contenders.

Gray and Contreras agreed to their trades because the Cards were perceived to be years away from winning again.

Now adding Gray and Contreras back to the team, along with Chapman in the pen, would literally complete the roster and make the team a 2026 contender.

It would be hilarious, but won't happen.

I'm actually of the opinion that they won't fall off a lot as a team this year because they will get reinforcements, but those reinforcements will come from within. Crooks, Jordan, Torres will all come up from AAA to help at some point. And Mathews, Mautz, Gastellum, Hansen will supplement the pitching.

It’s almost like someone was writing this exact same thing this offseason here on CT
What a dumb loser whiner dummy troll that guy was

lol gray is on the IL he wasn’t doing that great when he was healthy why anyone would want to trade for an old injured pitcher who can’t pitch on the road or in the heat is crazy

Hey Oz....his 2nd sentence is probably the most accurate thing he has ever posted! LOL

[Goldfan]

The question of "What if the Cardinals keep winning?" has been pervasive amongst Cardinals fans after the surprising start to the year. I read a (humorous) trade idea in the comments over at Viva El Birdos within the last week (I believe Kindred was the poster, IIRC, to credit my source).

But first the context . . .

The Cardinals are a very exciting young team at the moment that is a lot of fun to watch, compared to the past few years which where watching this team felt like a slog. This team has been pretty good offensively (even if they could use another bat in LF, 3B, and a RH platoon partner for 1B if we’re being greedy), and an exceptional one defensively. Their problems are on the mound. May (after a slow start) and McGreevy look like solid mid-rotation SPs, Pallante is having a good season thus far, and is probably a solid back of the rotation SP, or a very good swingman on a contender. Libby is still a bit of a mystery, but I think at worst he’s a solid back of the rotation SP. Leahy is another swingman who is ideally in the bullpen. This team severely lacks options in the bullpen at the moment where it’s hard to feel confident beyond ROB and JoJo. Pushing Leahy to the bullpen would help.

So the targets are clear:
-SP (mid-rotation at least)
-Backend RP (maybe more than one)

Now, the Cardinals also have players on expiring contracts (May, Romero) that fit into those categories that they could sell at the deadline and/or might not be part of the long term plan (ROB due to age). Even with manageable salaries ($10M for May, $4.26M for Romero) you’re unlikely to get a major return at the deadline for rentals like this. This works for and against the Cardinals. While it’s nice to get some filler depth of prospects by flipping players like this you’re unlikely to add meaningful pieces to your farm doing this. The Cardinals have made trades like this for a few years now, and they have pretty good depth in the minors at this point.

So the question becomes: Is it worth adding more depth by selling, or can we afford to spend some of that depth (not top prospects) by adding players like that at the deadline? Or even better, take on salary and pay even less in prospects?

This early in the year it’s hard to find teams that are already looking to sell off players, so this will likely have to wait a couple of months (unless you find a team really underperforming expectations, with a GM that might be in a tight spot, and a very specific motivation to make a move now). While the Mets are off to terrible starts they aren’t in a position where they can shed enough salary to get below luxury tax thresholds. The Phillies might be able to get below the 4th threshold by shedding $10M, but they also might see themselves as still able to compete this year, especially in a division with the Nationals and Marlins to beat up on.

There’s another team, in a much tougher division off to a terrible start, with a GM that might be feeling the pressure, and they are only $24M from the lowest threshold and thus resetting the clock on consecutive years exceeding the luxury tax threshold. This brings us back to our favorite trading partner, the Boston Red Sox. They need to move $24M to get below the $244M threshold.

If the Red Sox traded Sonny Gray, and Aroldis Chapman right now, they would shed $26.8M in payroll and drop to a $241M payroll. The longer they wait the less they shed. Both players have options for 2027 so they aren’t pure rentals. Gray is probably worth a fractions of what he was over the winter, and that’s going to keep going down as we approach the deadline. Also he has a NTC which he's used because he wanted to be in St. Louis, close to home (though the Braves could be an attractive landing spot), would he waive to come back? According to BTV Chapman’s contract is $5M underwater, but he’s off to a great start this year. They could also dump Garrett Whitlock, their setup man, making $7.5M this year and has two option years.

I know it’s crazy to talk about “undoing a trade” you just made a few months ago, but I think it actually makes a lot of sense, and they have two backend relievers that could be expired deals or options for next year (I think Chapman vests with 40 IP). All three players make $41.5M for the whole season, $24M is 93 games worth of that, or acquiring all three around the 69-70 game point of the season, or in a little more than a month from now. By then we’ll know if we’re still in the race, and if Boston is out of it in the AL. Would ownership be willing to add $24M in payroll to give us a SP and a RP (or two) to help this exciting team, and bring fans back to the ballpark? “You gotta spend money to make money”.

Imagine our current lineup with this pitching staff . . .

Gray, May, McGreevy, Libby, Pallante/Leahy/Dobbins
ROB, Chapman, Whitlock?, Romero, Fernandez, Graceffo, Soriano, Leahy/Svanson/Stanek/???

That team probably isn't going to win it all, but I think you can at least compete down the stretch with that team, and you haven't even spent all the money you saved by dumping contracts this winter. I know it's asking a lot for an "arbitrage" situation like this to occur, where we get a player back for less than we received selling them, but that's how what happens with assets with diminishing value. How many playoffs teams, or hopeful playoff teams, could potentially afford to add payroll like this to keep the prospect cost down? I think most of those teams are near the top of their budget already.

(No, I'm not going to expand the trade and get Willson Contreras back even though a RH hitting 1B/DH would do wonders for this roster).

It is incredible that the Cardinals young talent has made so much progress in the first 20% of this season that they would be viewed as contenders.

Gray and Contreras agreed to their trades because the Cards were perceived to be years away from winning again.

Now adding Gray and Contreras back to the team, along with Chapman in the pen, would literally complete the roster and make the team a 2026 contender.

It would be hilarious, but won't happen.

I'm actually of the opinion that they won't fall off a lot as a team this year because they will get reinforcements, but those reinforcements will come from within. Crooks, Jordan, Torres will all come up from AAA to help at some point. And Mathews, Mautz, Gastellum, Hansen will supplement the pitching.

It’s almost like someone was writing this exact same thing this offseason here on CT
What a dumb loser whiner dummy troll that guy was

lol gray is on the IL he wasn’t doing that great when he was healthy why anyone would want to trade for an old injured pitcher who can’t pitch on the road or in the heat is crazy

Hey Oz....his 2nd sentence is probably the most accurate thing he has ever posted! LOL

Come on fellas…..we had a LONG conversation about replacing Gray and WC with some productive alternatives….The team would be even better positioned if that occurred. But everyone was in the “It’s a REBUILDING year…..we can’t compete….we have to wait on BloomFarm….2,3,,4 yr from now”

[JuanAgosto]

No big additions this season

I would, however expect Bloom is already searching the back alleys of MLB for some help in the pen'

Im fine with them not being buyers at the deadline. But I hope they dont sabotage a post season possibility by being sellers. This group would benefit from playoff experience even if it is short-lived. A sell-off would only create more animosity from the fans.

As always. it depends on the deal.

If some team offers massive value for a guy that isn't part of our long-term future, you might make that deal even if if lessons the chance at a WC. The team can fight ahead anyway. You learn more from losing than winning.

The goal is to win the WS. Not surprise everyone by making a WC game.

I respectfully disagree. Continued winning and a taste of the post season is far more beneficial to this young team than finishing 4th and being told "3 years from now you will contend." There are too many variables in pro sports that can shoot even good plans all to hell. That prospect you acquired doesn't pan out. Guys leave via free agency. Somebody gets hurt, etc. Winning now leaves motivation in their minds for the future. There is a higher goal. Finishing 4th sets a lower bar.

[JuanAgosto]

No big additions this season

I would, however expect Bloom is already searching the back alleys of MLB for some help in the pen'

Im fine with them not being buyers at the deadline. But I hope they dont sabotage a post season possibility by being sellers. This group would benefit from playoff experience even if it is short-lived. A sell-off would only create more animosity from the fans.

Not my preference Juan but I'd bet they stick to the L-T plan restocking the system w/players that don't fit that plan and are sellers of one, two or more of May, Noot, JoJo and O'Brien.

I think its a mistake. They are already seeing diminished crowds. If people start showing up and the FO becomes sellers.....ouch. Many may take that as a slap in the face.

Exactly, fans have been craving an entertaining winning team and perhaps they have one in ‘26 but BDW won’t help a PS push??
This will be the same MO Show we’ve seen before…..only now the excuse will be we can’t WIN NOW because our plan dictates we’ll try to WIN LATER….

Exactly. Did the 2015 Cubs say "Hold on, boys! Our window opens next year!!"?

[Talkin' Baseball]

No big additions this season

I would, however expect Bloom is already searching the back alleys of MLB for some help in the pen'

Im fine with them not being buyers at the deadline. But I hope they dont sabotage a post season possibility by being sellers. This group would benefit from playoff experience even if it is short-lived. A sell-off would only create more animosity from the fans.

Not my preference Juan but I'd bet they stick to the L-T plan restocking the system w/players that don't fit that plan and are sellers of one, two or more of May, Noot, JoJo and O'Brien.

I think its a mistake. They are already seeing diminished crowds. If people start showing up and the FO becomes sellers.....ouch. Many may take that as a slap in the face.

Exactly, fans have been craving an entertaining winning team and perhaps they have one in ‘26 but BDW won’t help a PS push??
This will be the same MO Show we’ve seen before…..only now the excuse will be we can’t WIN NOW because our plan dictates we’ll try to WIN LATER….

Exactly. Did the 2015 Cubs say "Hold on, boys! Our window opens next year!!"?

No, but they did in 2014.

[JuanAgosto]

No big additions this season

I would, however expect Bloom is already searching the back alleys of MLB for some help in the pen'

Im fine with them not being buyers at the deadline. But I hope they dont sabotage a post season possibility by being sellers. This group would benefit from playoff experience even if it is short-lived. A sell-off would only create more animosity from the fans.

Not my preference Juan but I'd bet they stick to the L-T plan restocking the system w/players that don't fit that plan and are sellers of one, two or more of May, Noot, JoJo and O'Brien.

I think its a mistake. They are already seeing diminished crowds. If people start showing up and the FO becomes sellers.....ouch. Many may take that as a slap in the face.

Exactly, fans have been craving an entertaining winning team and perhaps they have one in ‘26 but BDW won’t help a PS push??
This will be the same MO Show we’ve seen before…..only now the excuse will be we can’t WIN NOW because our plan dictates we’ll try to WIN LATER….

Exactly. Did the 2015 Cubs say "Hold on, boys! Our window opens next year!!"?

No, but they did in 2014.

They were not sniffing a post season spot in 2014.

[Talkin' Baseball]

No big additions this season

I would, however expect Bloom is already searching the back alleys of MLB for some help in the pen'

Im fine with them not being buyers at the deadline. But I hope they dont sabotage a post season possibility by being sellers. This group would benefit from playoff experience even if it is short-lived. A sell-off would only create more animosity from the fans.

Not my preference Juan but I'd bet they stick to the L-T plan restocking the system w/players that don't fit that plan and are sellers of one, two or more of May, Noot, JoJo and O'Brien.

I think its a mistake. They are already seeing diminished crowds. If people start showing up and the FO becomes sellers.....ouch. Many may take that as a slap in the face.

Exactly, fans have been craving an entertaining winning team and perhaps they have one in ‘26 but BDW won’t help a PS push??
This will be the same MO Show we’ve seen before…..only now the excuse will be we can’t WIN NOW because our plan dictates we’ll try to WIN LATER….

Exactly. Did the 2015 Cubs say "Hold on, boys! Our window opens next year!!"?

No, but they did in 2014.

They were not sniffing a post season spot in 2014.

Exactly.

[Ozziesfan41]

No big additions this season

I would, however expect Bloom is already searching the back alleys of MLB for some help in the pen'

Im fine with them not being buyers at the deadline. But I hope they dont sabotage a post season possibility by being sellers. This group would benefit from playoff experience even if it is short-lived. A sell-off would only create more animosity from the fans.

As always. it depends on the deal.

If some team offers massive value for a guy that isn't part of our long-term future, you might make that deal even if if lessons the chance at a WC. The team can fight ahead anyway. You learn more from losing than winning.

The goal is to win the WS. Not surprise everyone by making a WC game.

I respectfully disagree. Continued winning and a taste of the post season is far more beneficial to this young team than finishing 4th and being told "3 years from now you will contend." There are too many variables in pro sports that can shoot even good plans all to hell. That prospect you acquired doesn't pan out. Guys leave via free agency. Somebody gets hurt, etc. Winning now leaves motivation in their minds for the future. There is a higher goal. Finishing 4th sets a lower bar.

There’s also danger in hanging onto players who aren’t part of the rebuild because you are trying to win now and you end up just prolonging the rebuild instead. Trade may at the deadline you get good trade offers he’s not part of the future he’s definitely not worth extending with his injury history and if you give him a QO that’s all you get and you are waiting on a draft pick who is years away. Trade Jo Jo relievers are a dumb investment Mel and others were saying sign helsley to an extension for 50 million he sucked last season and is on the IL with elbow inflammation I trust blooms judgment for the most part I think he will make the right call

[Cusecards]

The question of "What if the Cardinals keep winning?" has been pervasive amongst Cardinals fans after the surprising start to the year. I read a (humorous) trade idea in the comments over at Viva El Birdos within the last week (I believe Kindred was the poster, IIRC, to credit my source).

But first the context . . .

The Cardinals are a very exciting young team at the moment that is a lot of fun to watch, compared to the past few years which where watching this team felt like a slog. This team has been pretty good offensively (even if they could use another bat in LF, 3B, and a RH platoon partner for 1B if we’re being greedy), and an exceptional one defensively. Their problems are on the mound. May (after a slow start) and McGreevy look like solid mid-rotation SPs, Pallante is having a good season thus far, and is probably a solid back of the rotation SP, or a very good swingman on a contender. Libby is still a bit of a mystery, but I think at worst he’s a solid back of the rotation SP. Leahy is another swingman who is ideally in the bullpen. This team severely lacks options in the bullpen at the moment where it’s hard to feel confident beyond ROB and JoJo. Pushing Leahy to the bullpen would help.

So the targets are clear:
-SP (mid-rotation at least)
-Backend RP (maybe more than one)

Now, the Cardinals also have players on expiring contracts (May, Romero) that fit into those categories that they could sell at the deadline and/or might not be part of the long term plan (ROB due to age). Even with manageable salaries ($10M for May, $4.26M for Romero) you’re unlikely to get a major return at the deadline for rentals like this. This works for and against the Cardinals. While it’s nice to get some filler depth of prospects by flipping players like this you’re unlikely to add meaningful pieces to your farm doing this. The Cardinals have made trades like this for a few years now, and they have pretty good depth in the minors at this point.

So the question becomes: Is it worth adding more depth by selling, or can we afford to spend some of that depth (not top prospects) by adding players like that at the deadline? Or even better, take on salary and pay even less in prospects?

This early in the year it’s hard to find teams that are already looking to sell off players, so this will likely have to wait a couple of months (unless you find a team really underperforming expectations, with a GM that might be in a tight spot, and a very specific motivation to make a move now). While the Mets are off to terrible starts they aren’t in a position where they can shed enough salary to get below luxury tax thresholds. The Phillies might be able to get below the 4th threshold by shedding $10M, but they also might see themselves as still able to compete this year, especially in a division with the Nationals and Marlins to beat up on.

There’s another team, in a much tougher division off to a terrible start, with a GM that might be feeling the pressure, and they are only $24M from the lowest threshold and thus resetting the clock on consecutive years exceeding the luxury tax threshold. This brings us back to our favorite trading partner, the Boston Red Sox. They need to move $24M to get below the $244M threshold.

If the Red Sox traded Sonny Gray, and Aroldis Chapman right now, they would shed $26.8M in payroll and drop to a $241M payroll. The longer they wait the less they shed. Both players have options for 2027 so they aren’t pure rentals. Gray is probably worth a fractions of what he was over the winter, and that’s going to keep going down as we approach the deadline. Also he has a NTC which he's used because he wanted to be in St. Louis, close to home (though the Braves could be an attractive landing spot), would he waive to come back? According to BTV Chapman’s contract is $5M underwater, but he’s off to a great start this year. They could also dump Garrett Whitlock, their setup man, making $7.5M this year and has two option years.

I know it’s crazy to talk about “undoing a trade” you just made a few months ago, but I think it actually makes a lot of sense, and they have two backend relievers that could be expired deals or options for next year (I think Chapman vests with 40 IP). All three players make $41.5M for the whole season, $24M is 93 games worth of that, or acquiring all three around the 69-70 game point of the season, or in a little more than a month from now. By then we’ll know if we’re still in the race, and if Boston is out of it in the AL. Would ownership be willing to add $24M in payroll to give us a SP and a RP (or two) to help this exciting team, and bring fans back to the ballpark? “You gotta spend money to make money”.

Imagine our current lineup with this pitching staff . . .

Gray, May, McGreevy, Libby, Pallante/Leahy/Dobbins
ROB, Chapman, Whitlock?, Romero, Fernandez, Graceffo, Soriano, Leahy/Svanson/Stanek/???

That team probably isn't going to win it all, but I think you can at least compete down the stretch with that team, and you haven't even spent all the money you saved by dumping contracts this winter. I know it's asking a lot for an "arbitrage" situation like this to occur, where we get a player back for less than we received selling them, but that's how what happens with assets with diminishing value. How many playoffs teams, or hopeful playoff teams, could potentially afford to add payroll like this to keep the prospect cost down? I think most of those teams are near the top of their budget already.

(No, I'm not going to expand the trade and get Willson Contreras back even though a RH hitting 1B/DH would do wonders for this roster).

It is incredible that the Cardinals young talent has made so much progress in the first 20% of this season that they would be viewed as contenders.

Gray and Contreras agreed to their trades because the Cards were perceived to be years away from winning again.

Now adding Gray and Contreras back to the team, along with Chapman in the pen, would literally complete the roster and make the team a 2026 contender.

It would be hilarious, but won't happen.

I'm actually of the opinion that they won't fall off a lot as a team this year because they will get reinforcements, but those reinforcements will come from within. Crooks, Jordan, Torres will all come up from AAA to help at some point. And Mathews, Mautz, Gastellum, Hansen will supplement the pitching.

It’s almost like someone was writing this exact same thing this offseason here on CT
What a dumb loser whiner dummy troll that guy was

lol gray is on the IL he wasn’t doing that great when he was healthy why anyone would want to trade for an old injured pitcher who can’t pitch on the road or in the heat is crazy

Hey Oz....his 2nd sentence is probably the most accurate thing he has ever posted! LOL

Come on fellas…..we had a LONG conversation about replacing Gray and WC with some productive alternatives….The team would be even better positioned if that occurred. But everyone was in the “It’s a REBUILDING year…..we can’t compete….we have to wait on BloomFarm….2,3,,4 yr from now”

Fellas? Y’all? Childish emojis??
This is an OPINION forum:
My OPINION- I like what Bloom has done so far. It seems to have the organization headed in the right direction? Farm system is highly rated. Now.....will it pay off in the long run? Time will tell. But I like the direction and I am ENTITLED to that opinion!
Your OPINION- You think the process should be moving faster. Ok you are entitled to that OPINION.
Now....please tell us your SPECIFIC MOVES that SHOULD be done NOW by BLOOM.
I want the team to win also and I’ll respectfully listen/discuss your moves.

BUT BE SPECIFIC!!!!!!
Waiting for your SPECIFIC SOLUTIONS!!!!!

[Cusecards]

The question of "What if the Cardinals keep winning?" has been pervasive amongst Cardinals fans after the surprising start to the year. I read a (humorous) trade idea in the comments over at Viva El Birdos within the last week (I believe Kindred was the poster, IIRC, to credit my source).

But first the context . . .

The Cardinals are a very exciting young team at the moment that is a lot of fun to watch, compared to the past few years which where watching this team felt like a slog. This team has been pretty good offensively (even if they could use another bat in LF, 3B, and a RH platoon partner for 1B if we’re being greedy), and an exceptional one defensively. Their problems are on the mound. May (after a slow start) and McGreevy look like solid mid-rotation SPs, Pallante is having a good season thus far, and is probably a solid back of the rotation SP, or a very good swingman on a contender. Libby is still a bit of a mystery, but I think at worst he’s a solid back of the rotation SP. Leahy is another swingman who is ideally in the bullpen. This team severely lacks options in the bullpen at the moment where it’s hard to feel confident beyond ROB and JoJo. Pushing Leahy to the bullpen would help.

So the targets are clear:
-SP (mid-rotation at least)
-Backend RP (maybe more than one)

Now, the Cardinals also have players on expiring contracts (May, Romero) that fit into those categories that they could sell at the deadline and/or might not be part of the long term plan (ROB due to age). Even with manageable salaries ($10M for May, $4.26M for Romero) you’re unlikely to get a major return at the deadline for rentals like this. This works for and against the Cardinals. While it’s nice to get some filler depth of prospects by flipping players like this you’re unlikely to add meaningful pieces to your farm doing this. The Cardinals have made trades like this for a few years now, and they have pretty good depth in the minors at this point.

So the question becomes: Is it worth adding more depth by selling, or can we afford to spend some of that depth (not top prospects) by adding players like that at the deadline? Or even better, take on salary and pay even less in prospects?

This early in the year it’s hard to find teams that are already looking to sell off players, so this will likely have to wait a couple of months (unless you find a team really underperforming expectations, with a GM that might be in a tight spot, and a very specific motivation to make a move now). While the Mets are off to terrible starts they aren’t in a position where they can shed enough salary to get below luxury tax thresholds. The Phillies might be able to get below the 4th threshold by shedding $10M, but they also might see themselves as still able to compete this year, especially in a division with the Nationals and Marlins to beat up on.

There’s another team, in a much tougher division off to a terrible start, with a GM that might be feeling the pressure, and they are only $24M from the lowest threshold and thus resetting the clock on consecutive years exceeding the luxury tax threshold. This brings us back to our favorite trading partner, the Boston Red Sox. They need to move $24M to get below the $244M threshold.

If the Red Sox traded Sonny Gray, and Aroldis Chapman right now, they would shed $26.8M in payroll and drop to a $241M payroll. The longer they wait the less they shed. Both players have options for 2027 so they aren’t pure rentals. Gray is probably worth a fractions of what he was over the winter, and that’s going to keep going down as we approach the deadline. Also he has a NTC which he's used because he wanted to be in St. Louis, close to home (though the Braves could be an attractive landing spot), would he waive to come back? According to BTV Chapman’s contract is $5M underwater, but he’s off to a great start this year. They could also dump Garrett Whitlock, their setup man, making $7.5M this year and has two option years.

I know it’s crazy to talk about “undoing a trade” you just made a few months ago, but I think it actually makes a lot of sense, and they have two backend relievers that could be expired deals or options for next year (I think Chapman vests with 40 IP). All three players make $41.5M for the whole season, $24M is 93 games worth of that, or acquiring all three around the 69-70 game point of the season, or in a little more than a month from now. By then we’ll know if we’re still in the race, and if Boston is out of it in the AL. Would ownership be willing to add $24M in payroll to give us a SP and a RP (or two) to help this exciting team, and bring fans back to the ballpark? “You gotta spend money to make money”.

Imagine our current lineup with this pitching staff . . .

Gray, May, McGreevy, Libby, Pallante/Leahy/Dobbins
ROB, Chapman, Whitlock?, Romero, Fernandez, Graceffo, Soriano, Leahy/Svanson/Stanek/???

That team probably isn't going to win it all, but I think you can at least compete down the stretch with that team, and you haven't even spent all the money you saved by dumping contracts this winter. I know it's asking a lot for an "arbitrage" situation like this to occur, where we get a player back for less than we received selling them, but that's how what happens with assets with diminishing value. How many playoffs teams, or hopeful playoff teams, could potentially afford to add payroll like this to keep the prospect cost down? I think most of those teams are near the top of their budget already.

(No, I'm not going to expand the trade and get Willson Contreras back even though a RH hitting 1B/DH would do wonders for this roster).

It is incredible that the Cardinals young talent has made so much progress in the first 20% of this season that they would be viewed as contenders.

Gray and Contreras agreed to their trades because the Cards were perceived to be years away from winning again.

Now adding Gray and Contreras back to the team, along with Chapman in the pen, would literally complete the roster and make the team a 2026 contender.

It would be hilarious, but won't happen.

I'm actually of the opinion that they won't fall off a lot as a team this year because they will get reinforcements, but those reinforcements will come from within. Crooks, Jordan, Torres will all come up from AAA to help at some point. And Mathews, Mautz, Gastellum, Hansen will supplement the pitching.

It’s almost like someone was writing this exact same thing this offseason here on CT
What a dumb loser whiner dummy troll that guy was

lol gray is on the IL he wasn’t doing that great when he was healthy why anyone would want to trade for an old injured pitcher who can’t pitch on the road or in the heat is crazy

Hey Oz....his 2nd sentence is probably the most accurate thing he has ever posted! LOL

Come on fellas…..we had a LONG conversation about replacing Gray and WC with some productive alternatives….The team would be even better positioned if that occurred. But everyone was in the “It’s a REBUILDING year…..we can’t compete….we have to wait on BloomFarm….2,3,,4 yr from now”

Fellas? Y’all? Childish emojis??
This is an OPINION forum:
My OPINION- I like what Bloom has done so far. It seems to have the organization headed in the right direction? Farm system is highly rated. Now.....will it pay off in the long run? Time will tell. But I like the direction and I am ENTITLED to that opinion!
Your OPINION- You think the process should be moving faster. Ok you are entitled to that OPINION.
Now....please tell us your SPECIFIC MOVES that SHOULD be done NOW by BLOOM.
I want the team to win also and I’ll respectfully listen/discuss your moves.

BUT BE SPECIFIC!!!!!!
Waiting for your SPECIFIC SOLUTIONS!!!!!

Tick tick tick.....still waiting for those SPECIFIC MOVES that Bloom needs to make NOW!

[JuanAgosto]

No big additions this season

I would, however expect Bloom is already searching the back alleys of MLB for some help in the pen'

Im fine with them not being buyers at the deadline. But I hope they dont sabotage a post season possibility by being sellers. This group would benefit from playoff experience even if it is short-lived. A sell-off would only create more animosity from the fans.

As always. it depends on the deal.

If some team offers massive value for a guy that isn't part of our long-term future, you might make that deal even if if lessons the chance at a WC. The team can fight ahead anyway. You learn more from losing than winning.

The goal is to win the WS. Not surprise everyone by making a WC game.

So trading for one or two prospects guarantees winning a World Series? Last time I checked making the WC gives you a better shot than 4th place does.

[Ozziesfan41]

No big additions this season

I would, however expect Bloom is already searching the back alleys of MLB for some help in the pen'

Im fine with them not being buyers at the deadline. But I hope they dont sabotage a post season possibility by being sellers. This group would benefit from playoff experience even if it is short-lived. A sell-off would only create more animosity from the fans.

As always. it depends on the deal.

If some team offers massive value for a guy that isn't part of our long-term future, you might make that deal even if if lessons the chance at a WC. The team can fight ahead anyway. You learn more from losing than winning.

The goal is to win the WS. Not surprise everyone by making a WC game.

So trading for one or two prospects guarantees winning a World Series? Last time I checked making the WC gives you a better shot than 4th place does.

Mo has been doing the just squeak in and pray for miracles strategy and we see the results it was sustained mediocrity where they would sometimes get in for a one and done. They need to build a strong team that can actually win something

[Red Bird Classic]

No big additions this season

I would, however expect Bloom is already searching the back alleys of MLB for some help in the pen'

Im fine with them not being buyers at the deadline. But I hope they dont sabotage a post season possibility by being sellers. This group would benefit from playoff experience even if it is short-lived. A sell-off would only create more animosity from the fans.

As always. it depends on the deal.

If some team offers massive value for a guy that isn't part of our long-term future, you might make that deal even if if lessons the chance at a WC. The team can fight ahead anyway. You learn more from losing than winning.

The goal is to win the WS. Not surprise everyone by making a WC game.

So trading for one or two prospects guarantees winning a World Series? Last time I checked making the WC gives you a better shot than 4th place does.

If the Cardinals built a great team, they might have a 10% chance of wining a ring for each of 4 or 5 seasons. In the long term, that's a much better bet than squeaking into a wild card game as the 10th or 12th best team in the majors and hoping for miracle.

The team has finally made the right move towards rebuilding. The worst thing they could do is let early and lucky results distract them from completing the rebuild before they've got the team ready to truly compete, not for 3rd place and a Wild Card game but for the World Series.

[mattmitchl44]

No big additions this season

I would, however expect Bloom is already searching the back alleys of MLB for some help in the pen'

Im fine with them not being buyers at the deadline. But I hope they dont sabotage a post season possibility by being sellers. This group would benefit from playoff experience even if it is short-lived. A sell-off would only create more animosity from the fans.

As always. it depends on the deal.

If some team offers massive value for a guy that isn't part of our long-term future, you might make that deal even if if lessons the chance at a WC. The team can fight ahead anyway. You learn more from losing than winning.

The goal is to win the WS. Not surprise everyone by making a WC game.

I respectfully disagree. Continued winning and a taste of the post season is far more beneficial to this young team than finishing 4th and being told "3 years from now you will contend." There are too many variables in pro sports that can shoot even good plans all to hell. That prospect you acquired doesn't pan out. Guys leave via free agency. Somebody gets hurt, etc. Winning now leaves motivation in their minds for the future. There is a higher goal. Finishing 4th sets a lower bar.

This sounds like another "intangibles" argument.