Bloom on the course for this season

[rockondlouie]

No big additions this season

I would, however expect Bloom is already searching the back alleys of MLB for some help in the pen'

Im fine with them not being buyers at the deadline. But I hope they dont sabotage a post season possibility by being sellers. This group would benefit from playoff experience even if it is short-lived. A sell-off would only create more animosity from the fans.

Not my preference Juan but I'd bet they stick to the L-T plan restocking the system w/players that don't fit that plan and are sellers of one, two or more of May, Noot, JoJo and O'Brien.

I think its a mistake. They are already seeing diminished crowds. If people start showing up and the FO becomes sellers.....ouch. Many may take that as a slap in the face.

It certainly won't be popular, especially if they're near first place in the NLC or solidly hold a WC spot.

Tough call, we'll have to see what BDWJr tells Bloom to do if that happens.

[renostl]

If they are still doing well in July, they might not sell some of their pieces (May, etc.), but they won't be significant buyers.

Matt the ENTIRE point of a playing a MLB season >>>>>>TO WIN
But somehow you and Bloom don’t want to do that THIS season because it doesn’t follow some plan that you THINK might help you WIN in the future
And yet WINNING this YEAR won’t count because that PLAN hasn’t come to fruition…..
No one says you can’t keep stock piling your prospects but theres NOTHING saying a SP……who they never return top prospects at the deadline, so why everyone is so aghast when this mentioned is beyond me…..if Bloom is stupid enough to give up a top prospects then so be it.
Winning teams are special and if this one in ‘26 is showing that…..then help the process

When the trading deadline comes, they won't be able get anyone who can help significantly this season without giving up significant long term prospects. You have to give up a lot to get a lot.

And by the time July comes, I expect that it will be clear that, IF they were going to compete this year, they need to add two significant SPs and at least a couple of significant RPs. And that would cost a small fortune in prospect that they, rightly, won't be will to give up right now.

IMO there is an opportunity to go forward and also be true the overall organizational strategy of no
short cuts to success. There just is no longer any need to be "sellers".

Looking at players that they could sell on that are a part of the roster as of 5/5/2026.
there are a couple pitchers mostly May, Jo Jo, and O'Brien that could bring a return. The issues, Imo, are
that as soon as any of those players were to be moved they would be looking for that players
replacement and none of those players are beyond the ability to keep. O'Brien is controlled for 4 more seasons.
Jo Jo is not a closer but has been nails in his role with the Cards since 2022. He'll cost under $10M and
will be likely as anyone produce. May is a mutual option so there's free will involved, but there is probably
a deal there if he earns it.

IF you are only speaking to high dollar players, sure there is some rationale to that position. Even that has variable
that aren't fully known. The Cardinals dead money drops from ~$46M to ~$13M in 2027. I'm NOT saying go spend
it. I am saying that the "sellers" need and strategy is nonexistent.

IMO it is time for good old-fashioned baseball moves where both teams might get something that they do
not have for something that they are comfortable moving for whatever reasons such as redundancy,
change of scenery or just to make their team better. Looking at the current full roster the Cardinals
do have players of value on it that fit that outline.

If they are all that in the world of acquisition and development as they believe they are then count on
it. There are ongoing opportunities for more players. Acquire players that you are limited on, improve,
and go forward. They're out there without mortgaging any future and without some huge payday.

[rbirules]

The question of "What if the Cardinals keep winning?" has been pervasive amongst Cardinals fans after the surprising start to the year. I read a (humorous) trade idea in the comments over at Viva El Birdos within the last week (I believe Kindred was the poster, IIRC, to credit my source).

But first the context . . .

The Cardinals are a very exciting young team at the moment that is a lot of fun to watch, compared to the past few years which where watching this team felt like a slog. This team has been pretty good offensively (even if they could use another bat in LF, 3B, and a RH platoon partner for 1B if we’re being greedy), and an exceptional one defensively. Their problems are on the mound. May (after a slow start) and McGreevy look like solid mid-rotation SPs, Pallante is having a good season thus far, and is probably a solid back of the rotation SP, or a very good swingman on a contender. Libby is still a bit of a mystery, but I think at worst he’s a solid back of the rotation SP. Leahy is another swingman who is ideally in the bullpen. This team severely lacks options in the bullpen at the moment where it’s hard to feel confident beyond ROB and JoJo. Pushing Leahy to the bullpen would help.

So the targets are clear:
-SP (mid-rotation at least)
-Backend RP (maybe more than one)

Now, the Cardinals also have players on expiring contracts (May, Romero) that fit into those categories that they could sell at the deadline and/or might not be part of the long term plan (ROB due to age). Even with manageable salaries ($10M for May, $4.26M for Romero) you’re unlikely to get a major return at the deadline for rentals like this. This works for and against the Cardinals. While it’s nice to get some filler depth of prospects by flipping players like this you’re unlikely to add meaningful pieces to your farm doing this. The Cardinals have made trades like this for a few years now, and they have pretty good depth in the minors at this point.

So the question becomes: Is it worth adding more depth by selling, or can we afford to spend some of that depth (not top prospects) by adding players like that at the deadline? Or even better, take on salary and pay even less in prospects?

This early in the year it’s hard to find teams that are already looking to sell off players, so this will likely have to wait a couple of months (unless you find a team really underperforming expectations, with a GM that might be in a tight spot, and a very specific motivation to make a move now). While the Mets are off to terrible starts they aren’t in a position where they can shed enough salary to get below luxury tax thresholds. The Phillies might be able to get below the 4th threshold by shedding $10M, but they also might see themselves as still able to compete this year, especially in a division with the Nationals and Marlins to beat up on.

There’s another team, in a much tougher division off to a terrible start, with a GM that might be feeling the pressure, and they are only $24M from the lowest threshold and thus resetting the clock on consecutive years exceeding the luxury tax threshold. This brings us back to our favorite trading partner, the Boston Red Sox. They need to move $24M to get below the $244M threshold.

If the Red Sox traded Sonny Gray, and Aroldis Chapman right now, they would shed $26.8M in payroll and drop to a $241M payroll. The longer they wait the less they shed. Both players have options for 2027 so they aren’t pure rentals. Gray is probably worth a fractions of what he was over the winter, and that’s going to keep going down as we approach the deadline. Also he has a NTC which he's used because he wanted to be in St. Louis, close to home (though the Braves could be an attractive landing spot), would he waive to come back? According to BTV Chapman’s contract is $5M underwater, but he’s off to a great start this year. They could also dump Garrett Whitlock, their setup man, making $7.5M this year and has two option years.

I know it’s crazy to talk about “undoing a trade” you just made a few months ago, but I think it actually makes a lot of sense, and they have two backend relievers that could be expired deals or options for next year (I think Chapman vests with 40 IP). All three players make $41.5M for the whole season, $24M is 93 games worth of that, or acquiring all three around the 69-70 game point of the season, or in a little more than a month from now. By then we’ll know if we’re still in the race, and if Boston is out of it in the AL. Would ownership be willing to add $24M in payroll to give us a SP and a RP (or two) to help this exciting team, and bring fans back to the ballpark? “You gotta spend money to make money”.

Imagine our current lineup with this pitching staff . . .

Gray, May, McGreevy, Libby, Pallante/Leahy/Dobbins
ROB, Chapman, Whitlock?, Romero, Fernandez, Graceffo, Soriano, Leahy/Svanson/Stanek/???

That team probably isn't going to win it all, but I think you can at least compete down the stretch with that team, and you haven't even spent all the money you saved by dumping contracts this winter. I know it's asking a lot for an "arbitrage" situation like this to occur, where we get a player back for less than we received selling them, but that's how what happens with assets with diminishing value. How many playoffs teams, or hopeful playoff teams, could potentially afford to add payroll like this to keep the prospect cost down? I think most of those teams are near the top of their budget already.

(No, I'm not going to expand the trade and get Willson Contreras back even though a RH hitting 1B/DH would do wonders for this roster).

[pitchingandefense]

The question of "What if the Cardinals keep winning?" has been pervasive amongst Cardinals fans after the surprising start to the year. I read a (humorous) trade idea in the comments over at Viva El Birdos within the last week (I believe Kindred was the poster, IIRC, to credit my source).

But first the context . . .

The Cardinals are a very exciting young team at the moment that is a lot of fun to watch, compared to the past few years which where watching this team felt like a slog. This team has been pretty good offensively (even if they could use another bat in LF, 3B, and a RH platoon partner for 1B if we’re being greedy), and an exceptional one defensively. Their problems are on the mound. May (after a slow start) and McGreevy look like solid mid-rotation SPs, Pallante is having a good season thus far, and is probably a solid back of the rotation SP, or a very good swingman on a contender. Libby is still a bit of a mystery, but I think at worst he’s a solid back of the rotation SP. Leahy is another swingman who is ideally in the bullpen. This team severely lacks options in the bullpen at the moment where it’s hard to feel confident beyond ROB and JoJo. Pushing Leahy to the bullpen would help.

So the targets are clear:
-SP (mid-rotation at least)
-Backend RP (maybe more than one)

Now, the Cardinals also have players on expiring contracts (May, Romero) that fit into those categories that they could sell at the deadline and/or might not be part of the long term plan (ROB due to age). Even with manageable salaries ($10M for May, $4.26M for Romero) you’re unlikely to get a major return at the deadline for rentals like this. This works for and against the Cardinals. While it’s nice to get some filler depth of prospects by flipping players like this you’re unlikely to add meaningful pieces to your farm doing this. The Cardinals have made trades like this for a few years now, and they have pretty good depth in the minors at this point.

So the question becomes: Is it worth adding more depth by selling, or can we afford to spend some of that depth (not top prospects) by adding players like that at the deadline? Or even better, take on salary and pay even less in prospects?

This early in the year it’s hard to find teams that are already looking to sell off players, so this will likely have to wait a couple of months (unless you find a team really underperforming expectations, with a GM that might be in a tight spot, and a very specific motivation to make a move now). While the Mets are off to terrible starts they aren’t in a position where they can shed enough salary to get below luxury tax thresholds. The Phillies might be able to get below the 4th threshold by shedding $10M, but they also might see themselves as still able to compete this year, especially in a division with the Nationals and Marlins to beat up on.

There’s another team, in a much tougher division off to a terrible start, with a GM that might be feeling the pressure, and they are only $24M from the lowest threshold and thus resetting the clock on consecutive years exceeding the luxury tax threshold. This brings us back to our favorite trading partner, the Boston Red Sox. They need to move $24M to get below the $244M threshold.

If the Red Sox traded Sonny Gray, and Aroldis Chapman right now, they would shed $26.8M in payroll and drop to a $241M payroll. The longer they wait the less they shed. Both players have options for 2027 so they aren’t pure rentals. Gray is probably worth a fractions of what he was over the winter, and that’s going to keep going down as we approach the deadline. Also he has a NTC which he's used because he wanted to be in St. Louis, close to home (though the Braves could be an attractive landing spot), would he waive to come back? According to BTV Chapman’s contract is $5M underwater, but he’s off to a great start this year. They could also dump Garrett Whitlock, their setup man, making $7.5M this year and has two option years.

I know it’s crazy to talk about “undoing a trade” you just made a few months ago, but I think it actually makes a lot of sense, and they have two backend relievers that could be expired deals or options for next year (I think Chapman vests with 40 IP). All three players make $41.5M for the whole season, $24M is 93 games worth of that, or acquiring all three around the 69-70 game point of the season, or in a little more than a month from now. By then we’ll know if we’re still in the race, and if Boston is out of it in the AL. Would ownership be willing to add $24M in payroll to give us a SP and a RP (or two) to help this exciting team, and bring fans back to the ballpark? “You gotta spend money to make money”.

Imagine our current lineup with this pitching staff . . .

Gray, May, McGreevy, Libby, Pallante/Leahy/Dobbins
ROB, Chapman, Whitlock?, Romero, Fernandez, Graceffo, Soriano, Leahy/Svanson/Stanek/???

That team probably isn't going to win it all, but I think you can at least compete down the stretch with that team, and you haven't even spent all the money you saved by dumping contracts this winter. I know it's asking a lot for an "arbitrage" situation like this to occur, where we get a player back for less than we received selling them, but that's how what happens with assets with diminishing value. How many playoffs teams, or hopeful playoff teams, could potentially afford to add payroll like this to keep the prospect cost down? I think most of those teams are near the top of their budget already.

(No, I'm not going to expand the trade and get Willson Contreras back even though a RH hitting 1B/DH would do wonders for this roster).

It is incredible that the Cardinals young talent has made so much progress in the first 20% of this season that they would be viewed as contenders.

Gray and Contreras agreed to their trades because the Cards were perceived to be years away from winning again.

Now adding Gray and Contreras back to the team, along with Chapman in the pen, would literally complete the roster and make the team a 2026 contender.

It would be hilarious, but won't happen.

I'm actually of the opinion that they won't fall off a lot as a team this year because they will get reinforcements, but those reinforcements will come from within. Crooks, Jordan, Torres will all come up from AAA to help at some point. And Mathews, Mautz, Gastellum, Hansen will supplement the pitching.

[Goldfan]

Someone should tell this current group of youngsters that they’re not the CORRECT group of youngsters to be winning. See the PLAN was for other youngsters to be added to MLB roster and that group would start winning in ‘28, ‘29……and if this ‘26 group were to WIN and possibly have a vet or maybe 2 added later this year….or even calling up stepup talent toiling away at AAA…….that would thoroughly destroy THE PLAN for winning in ‘28

CT gets more and more Weird with each passing day.

[Goldfan]

The question of "What if the Cardinals keep winning?" has been pervasive amongst Cardinals fans after the surprising start to the year. I read a (humorous) trade idea in the comments over at Viva El Birdos within the last week (I believe Kindred was the poster, IIRC, to credit my source).

But first the context . . .

The Cardinals are a very exciting young team at the moment that is a lot of fun to watch, compared to the past few years which where watching this team felt like a slog. This team has been pretty good offensively (even if they could use another bat in LF, 3B, and a RH platoon partner for 1B if we’re being greedy), and an exceptional one defensively. Their problems are on the mound. May (after a slow start) and McGreevy look like solid mid-rotation SPs, Pallante is having a good season thus far, and is probably a solid back of the rotation SP, or a very good swingman on a contender. Libby is still a bit of a mystery, but I think at worst he’s a solid back of the rotation SP. Leahy is another swingman who is ideally in the bullpen. This team severely lacks options in the bullpen at the moment where it’s hard to feel confident beyond ROB and JoJo. Pushing Leahy to the bullpen would help.

So the targets are clear:
-SP (mid-rotation at least)
-Backend RP (maybe more than one)

Now, the Cardinals also have players on expiring contracts (May, Romero) that fit into those categories that they could sell at the deadline and/or might not be part of the long term plan (ROB due to age). Even with manageable salaries ($10M for May, $4.26M for Romero) you’re unlikely to get a major return at the deadline for rentals like this. This works for and against the Cardinals. While it’s nice to get some filler depth of prospects by flipping players like this you’re unlikely to add meaningful pieces to your farm doing this. The Cardinals have made trades like this for a few years now, and they have pretty good depth in the minors at this point.

So the question becomes: Is it worth adding more depth by selling, or can we afford to spend some of that depth (not top prospects) by adding players like that at the deadline? Or even better, take on salary and pay even less in prospects?

This early in the year it’s hard to find teams that are already looking to sell off players, so this will likely have to wait a couple of months (unless you find a team really underperforming expectations, with a GM that might be in a tight spot, and a very specific motivation to make a move now). While the Mets are off to terrible starts they aren’t in a position where they can shed enough salary to get below luxury tax thresholds. The Phillies might be able to get below the 4th threshold by shedding $10M, but they also might see themselves as still able to compete this year, especially in a division with the Nationals and Marlins to beat up on.

There’s another team, in a much tougher division off to a terrible start, with a GM that might be feeling the pressure, and they are only $24M from the lowest threshold and thus resetting the clock on consecutive years exceeding the luxury tax threshold. This brings us back to our favorite trading partner, the Boston Red Sox. They need to move $24M to get below the $244M threshold.

If the Red Sox traded Sonny Gray, and Aroldis Chapman right now, they would shed $26.8M in payroll and drop to a $241M payroll. The longer they wait the less they shed. Both players have options for 2027 so they aren’t pure rentals. Gray is probably worth a fractions of what he was over the winter, and that’s going to keep going down as we approach the deadline. Also he has a NTC which he's used because he wanted to be in St. Louis, close to home (though the Braves could be an attractive landing spot), would he waive to come back? According to BTV Chapman’s contract is $5M underwater, but he’s off to a great start this year. They could also dump Garrett Whitlock, their setup man, making $7.5M this year and has two option years.

I know it’s crazy to talk about “undoing a trade” you just made a few months ago, but I think it actually makes a lot of sense, and they have two backend relievers that could be expired deals or options for next year (I think Chapman vests with 40 IP). All three players make $41.5M for the whole season, $24M is 93 games worth of that, or acquiring all three around the 69-70 game point of the season, or in a little more than a month from now. By then we’ll know if we’re still in the race, and if Boston is out of it in the AL. Would ownership be willing to add $24M in payroll to give us a SP and a RP (or two) to help this exciting team, and bring fans back to the ballpark? “You gotta spend money to make money”.

Imagine our current lineup with this pitching staff . . .

Gray, May, McGreevy, Libby, Pallante/Leahy/Dobbins
ROB, Chapman, Whitlock?, Romero, Fernandez, Graceffo, Soriano, Leahy/Svanson/Stanek/???

That team probably isn't going to win it all, but I think you can at least compete down the stretch with that team, and you haven't even spent all the money you saved by dumping contracts this winter. I know it's asking a lot for an "arbitrage" situation like this to occur, where we get a player back for less than we received selling them, but that's how what happens with assets with diminishing value. How many playoffs teams, or hopeful playoff teams, could potentially afford to add payroll like this to keep the prospect cost down? I think most of those teams are near the top of their budget already.

(No, I'm not going to expand the trade and get Willson Contreras back even though a RH hitting 1B/DH would do wonders for this roster).

It is incredible that the Cardinals young talent has made so much progress in the first 20% of this season that they would be viewed as contenders.

Gray and Contreras agreed to their trades because the Cards were perceived to be years away from winning again.

Now adding Gray and Contreras back to the team, along with Chapman in the pen, would literally complete the roster and make the team a 2026 contender.

It would be hilarious, but won't happen.

I'm actually of the opinion that they won't fall off a lot as a team this year because they will get reinforcements, but those reinforcements will come from within. Crooks, Jordan, Torres will all come up from AAA to help at some point. And Mathews, Mautz, Gastellum, Hansen will supplement the pitching.

It’s almost like someone was writing this exact same thing this offseason here on CT
What a dumb loser whiner dummy troll that guy was

[NYCardsFan]

The question of "What if the Cardinals keep winning?" has been pervasive amongst Cardinals fans after the surprising start to the year. I read a (humorous) trade idea in the comments over at Viva El Birdos within the last week (I believe Kindred was the poster, IIRC, to credit my source).

But first the context . . .

The Cardinals are a very exciting young team at the moment that is a lot of fun to watch, compared to the past few years which where watching this team felt like a slog. This team has been pretty good offensively (even if they could use another bat in LF, 3B, and a RH platoon partner for 1B if we’re being greedy), and an exceptional one defensively. Their problems are on the mound. May (after a slow start) and McGreevy look like solid mid-rotation SPs, Pallante is having a good season thus far, and is probably a solid back of the rotation SP, or a very good swingman on a contender. Libby is still a bit of a mystery, but I think at worst he’s a solid back of the rotation SP. Leahy is another swingman who is ideally in the bullpen. This team severely lacks options in the bullpen at the moment where it’s hard to feel confident beyond ROB and JoJo. Pushing Leahy to the bullpen would help.

So the targets are clear:
-SP (mid-rotation at least)
-Backend RP (maybe more than one)

Now, the Cardinals also have players on expiring contracts (May, Romero) that fit into those categories that they could sell at the deadline and/or might not be part of the long term plan (ROB due to age). Even with manageable salaries ($10M for May, $4.26M for Romero) you’re unlikely to get a major return at the deadline for rentals like this. This works for and against the Cardinals. While it’s nice to get some filler depth of prospects by flipping players like this you’re unlikely to add meaningful pieces to your farm doing this. The Cardinals have made trades like this for a few years now, and they have pretty good depth in the minors at this point.

So the question becomes: Is it worth adding more depth by selling, or can we afford to spend some of that depth (not top prospects) by adding players like that at the deadline? Or even better, take on salary and pay even less in prospects?

This early in the year it’s hard to find teams that are already looking to sell off players, so this will likely have to wait a couple of months (unless you find a team really underperforming expectations, with a GM that might be in a tight spot, and a very specific motivation to make a move now). While the Mets are off to terrible starts they aren’t in a position where they can shed enough salary to get below luxury tax thresholds. The Phillies might be able to get below the 4th threshold by shedding $10M, but they also might see themselves as still able to compete this year, especially in a division with the Nationals and Marlins to beat up on.

There’s another team, in a much tougher division off to a terrible start, with a GM that might be feeling the pressure, and they are only $24M from the lowest threshold and thus resetting the clock on consecutive years exceeding the luxury tax threshold. This brings us back to our favorite trading partner, the Boston Red Sox. They need to move $24M to get below the $244M threshold.

If the Red Sox traded Sonny Gray, and Aroldis Chapman right now, they would shed $26.8M in payroll and drop to a $241M payroll. The longer they wait the less they shed. Both players have options for 2027 so they aren’t pure rentals. Gray is probably worth a fractions of what he was over the winter, and that’s going to keep going down as we approach the deadline. Also he has a NTC which he's used because he wanted to be in St. Louis, close to home (though the Braves could be an attractive landing spot), would he waive to come back? According to BTV Chapman’s contract is $5M underwater, but he’s off to a great start this year. They could also dump Garrett Whitlock, their setup man, making $7.5M this year and has two option years.

I know it’s crazy to talk about “undoing a trade” you just made a few months ago, but I think it actually makes a lot of sense, and they have two backend relievers that could be expired deals or options for next year (I think Chapman vests with 40 IP). All three players make $41.5M for the whole season, $24M is 93 games worth of that, or acquiring all three around the 69-70 game point of the season, or in a little more than a month from now. By then we’ll know if we’re still in the race, and if Boston is out of it in the AL. Would ownership be willing to add $24M in payroll to give us a SP and a RP (or two) to help this exciting team, and bring fans back to the ballpark? “You gotta spend money to make money”.

Imagine our current lineup with this pitching staff . . .

Gray, May, McGreevy, Libby, Pallante/Leahy/Dobbins
ROB, Chapman, Whitlock?, Romero, Fernandez, Graceffo, Leahy, Svanson/Stanek/???

That team probably isn't going to win it all, but I think you can at least compete down the stretch with that team, and you haven't even spent all the money you saved by dumping contracts this winter. I know it's asking a lot for an "arbitrage" situation like this to occur, where we get a player back for less than we received selling them, but that's how what happens with assets with diminishing value. How many playoffs teams, or hopeful playoff teams, could potentially afford to add payroll like this to keep the prospect cost down? I think most of those teams are near the top of their budget already.

(No, I'm not going to expand the trade and get Willson Contreras back even though a RH hitting 1B/DH would do wonders for this roster).

Trades that involve material assumption of liability for underwater contracts are pretty much de facto free agent acquisitions (unless you want additional contract buy-down from the counterparty, which would require kicking in more/better prospects). In the scenario you’re sketching, ownership effectively would be acquiring talent mainly for cash (much like a FA acquisition), but only after several more cards have been revealed and they know they have a legitimate playoff shot. If ownership were willing to spend the additional money, that sort of trade is not inconsistent with Bloom’s longer-term plan, especially when the tail of the assumed liability is short.

[Ozziesfan41]

The question of "What if the Cardinals keep winning?" has been pervasive amongst Cardinals fans after the surprising start to the year. I read a (humorous) trade idea in the comments over at Viva El Birdos within the last week (I believe Kindred was the poster, IIRC, to credit my source).

But first the context . . .

The Cardinals are a very exciting young team at the moment that is a lot of fun to watch, compared to the past few years which where watching this team felt like a slog. This team has been pretty good offensively (even if they could use another bat in LF, 3B, and a RH platoon partner for 1B if we’re being greedy), and an exceptional one defensively. Their problems are on the mound. May (after a slow start) and McGreevy look like solid mid-rotation SPs, Pallante is having a good season thus far, and is probably a solid back of the rotation SP, or a very good swingman on a contender. Libby is still a bit of a mystery, but I think at worst he’s a solid back of the rotation SP. Leahy is another swingman who is ideally in the bullpen. This team severely lacks options in the bullpen at the moment where it’s hard to feel confident beyond ROB and JoJo. Pushing Leahy to the bullpen would help.

So the targets are clear:
-SP (mid-rotation at least)
-Backend RP (maybe more than one)

Now, the Cardinals also have players on expiring contracts (May, Romero) that fit into those categories that they could sell at the deadline and/or might not be part of the long term plan (ROB due to age). Even with manageable salaries ($10M for May, $4.26M for Romero) you’re unlikely to get a major return at the deadline for rentals like this. This works for and against the Cardinals. While it’s nice to get some filler depth of prospects by flipping players like this you’re unlikely to add meaningful pieces to your farm doing this. The Cardinals have made trades like this for a few years now, and they have pretty good depth in the minors at this point.

So the question becomes: Is it worth adding more depth by selling, or can we afford to spend some of that depth (not top prospects) by adding players like that at the deadline? Or even better, take on salary and pay even less in prospects?

This early in the year it’s hard to find teams that are already looking to sell off players, so this will likely have to wait a couple of months (unless you find a team really underperforming expectations, with a GM that might be in a tight spot, and a very specific motivation to make a move now). While the Mets are off to terrible starts they aren’t in a position where they can shed enough salary to get below luxury tax thresholds. The Phillies might be able to get below the 4th threshold by shedding $10M, but they also might see themselves as still able to compete this year, especially in a division with the Nationals and Marlins to beat up on.

There’s another team, in a much tougher division off to a terrible start, with a GM that might be feeling the pressure, and they are only $24M from the lowest threshold and thus resetting the clock on consecutive years exceeding the luxury tax threshold. This brings us back to our favorite trading partner, the Boston Red Sox. They need to move $24M to get below the $244M threshold.

If the Red Sox traded Sonny Gray, and Aroldis Chapman right now, they would shed $26.8M in payroll and drop to a $241M payroll. The longer they wait the less they shed. Both players have options for 2027 so they aren’t pure rentals. Gray is probably worth a fractions of what he was over the winter, and that’s going to keep going down as we approach the deadline. Also he has a NTC which he's used because he wanted to be in St. Louis, close to home (though the Braves could be an attractive landing spot), would he waive to come back? According to BTV Chapman’s contract is $5M underwater, but he’s off to a great start this year. They could also dump Garrett Whitlock, their setup man, making $7.5M this year and has two option years.

I know it’s crazy to talk about “undoing a trade” you just made a few months ago, but I think it actually makes a lot of sense, and they have two backend relievers that could be expired deals or options for next year (I think Chapman vests with 40 IP). All three players make $41.5M for the whole season, $24M is 93 games worth of that, or acquiring all three around the 69-70 game point of the season, or in a little more than a month from now. By then we’ll know if we’re still in the race, and if Boston is out of it in the AL. Would ownership be willing to add $24M in payroll to give us a SP and a RP (or two) to help this exciting team, and bring fans back to the ballpark? “You gotta spend money to make money”.

Imagine our current lineup with this pitching staff . . .

Gray, May, McGreevy, Libby, Pallante/Leahy/Dobbins
ROB, Chapman, Whitlock?, Romero, Fernandez, Graceffo, Soriano, Leahy/Svanson/Stanek/???

That team probably isn't going to win it all, but I think you can at least compete down the stretch with that team, and you haven't even spent all the money you saved by dumping contracts this winter. I know it's asking a lot for an "arbitrage" situation like this to occur, where we get a player back for less than we received selling them, but that's how what happens with assets with diminishing value. How many playoffs teams, or hopeful playoff teams, could potentially afford to add payroll like this to keep the prospect cost down? I think most of those teams are near the top of their budget already.

(No, I'm not going to expand the trade and get Willson Contreras back even though a RH hitting 1B/DH would do wonders for this roster).

It is incredible that the Cardinals young talent has made so much progress in the first 20% of this season that they would be viewed as contenders.

Gray and Contreras agreed to their trades because the Cards were perceived to be years away from winning again.

Now adding Gray and Contreras back to the team, along with Chapman in the pen, would literally complete the roster and make the team a 2026 contender.

It would be hilarious, but won't happen.

I'm actually of the opinion that they won't fall off a lot as a team this year because they will get reinforcements, but those reinforcements will come from within. Crooks, Jordan, Torres will all come up from AAA to help at some point. And Mathews, Mautz, Gastellum, Hansen will supplement the pitching.

It’s almost like someone was writing this exact same thing this offseason here on CT
What a dumb loser whiner dummy troll that guy was

lol gray is on the IL he wasn’t doing that great when he was healthy why anyone would want to trade for an old injured pitcher who can’t pitch on the road or in the heat is crazy

[hugeCardfan]

Bloom isn't going to stray from the L-T plan.

He'll deal D. May and likely Noot, JoJo and O'Brien.

That said, this should NOT PREVENT him from adding a bullpen piece or two via trades that don't involve players he see's having a role in the L-T plan.

I'm NOT Talking a high priced closer or $12M A. Miller type or (gulp) B. Cecil, rather a P. Maton or JoJo type who came at a low cost.

Sorry rock. I think you are dead wrong about O'Brien. Makes no sense to release the best reliever on the team with 5 years of control.

[renostl]

The question of "What if the Cardinals keep winning?" has been pervasive amongst Cardinals fans after the surprising start to the year. I read a (humorous) trade idea in the comments over at Viva El Birdos within the last week (I believe Kindred was the poster, IIRC, to credit my source).

But first the context . . .

The Cardinals are a very exciting young team at the moment that is a lot of fun to watch, compared to the past few years which where watching this team felt like a slog. This team has been pretty good offensively (even if they could use another bat in LF, 3B, and a RH platoon partner for 1B if we’re being greedy), and an exceptional one defensively. Their problems are on the mound. May (after a slow start) and McGreevy look like solid mid-rotation SPs, Pallante is having a good season thus far, and is probably a solid back of the rotation SP, or a very good swingman on a contender. Libby is still a bit of a mystery, but I think at worst he’s a solid back of the rotation SP. Leahy is another swingman who is ideally in the bullpen. This team severely lacks options in the bullpen at the moment where it’s hard to feel confident beyond ROB and JoJo. Pushing Leahy to the bullpen would help.

So the targets are clear:
-SP (mid-rotation at least)
-Backend RP (maybe more than one)

Now, the Cardinals also have players on expiring contracts (May, Romero) that fit into those categories that they could sell at the deadline and/or might not be part of the long term plan (ROB due to age). Even with manageable salaries ($10M for May, $4.26M for Romero) you’re unlikely to get a major return at the deadline for rentals like this. This works for and against the Cardinals. While it’s nice to get some filler depth of prospects by flipping players like this you’re unlikely to add meaningful pieces to your farm doing this. The Cardinals have made trades like this for a few years now, and they have pretty good depth in the minors at this point.

So the question becomes: Is it worth adding more depth by selling, or can we afford to spend some of that depth (not top prospects) by adding players like that at the deadline? Or even better, take on salary and pay even less in prospects?

This early in the year it’s hard to find teams that are already looking to sell off players, so this will likely have to wait a couple of months (unless you find a team really underperforming expectations, with a GM that might be in a tight spot, and a very specific motivation to make a move now). While the Mets are off to terrible starts they aren’t in a position where they can shed enough salary to get below luxury tax thresholds. The Phillies might be able to get below the 4th threshold by shedding $10M, but they also might see themselves as still able to compete this year, especially in a division with the Nationals and Marlins to beat up on.

There’s another team, in a much tougher division off to a terrible start, with a GM that might be feeling the pressure, and they are only $24M from the lowest threshold and thus resetting the clock on consecutive years exceeding the luxury tax threshold. This brings us back to our favorite trading partner, the Boston Red Sox. They need to move $24M to get below the $244M threshold.

If the Red Sox traded Sonny Gray, and Aroldis Chapman right now, they would shed $26.8M in payroll and drop to a $241M payroll. The longer they wait the less they shed. Both players have options for 2027 so they aren’t pure rentals. Gray is probably worth a fractions of what he was over the winter, and that’s going to keep going down as we approach the deadline. Also he has a NTC which he's used because he wanted to be in St. Louis, close to home (though the Braves could be an attractive landing spot), would he waive to come back? According to BTV Chapman’s contract is $5M underwater, but he’s off to a great start this year. They could also dump Garrett Whitlock, their setup man, making $7.5M this year and has two option years.

I know it’s crazy to talk about “undoing a trade” you just made a few months ago, but I think it actually makes a lot of sense, and they have two backend relievers that could be expired deals or options for next year (I think Chapman vests with 40 IP). All three players make $41.5M for the whole season, $24M is 93 games worth of that, or acquiring all three around the 69-70 game point of the season, or in a little more than a month from now. By then we’ll know if we’re still in the race, and if Boston is out of it in the AL. Would ownership be willing to add $24M in payroll to give us a SP and a RP (or two) to help this exciting team, and bring fans back to the ballpark? “You gotta spend money to make money”.

Imagine our current lineup with this pitching staff . . .

Gray, May, McGreevy, Libby, Pallante/Leahy/Dobbins
ROB, Chapman, Whitlock?, Romero, Fernandez, Graceffo, Soriano, Leahy/Svanson/Stanek/???

That team probably isn't going to win it all, but I think you can at least compete down the stretch with that team, and you haven't even spent all the money you saved by dumping contracts this winter. I know it's asking a lot for an "arbitrage" situation like this to occur, where we get a player back for less than we received selling them, but that's how what happens with assets with diminishing value. How many playoffs teams, or hopeful playoff teams, could potentially afford to add payroll like this to keep the prospect cost down? I think most of those teams are near the top of their budget already.

(No, I'm not going to expand the trade and get Willson Contreras back even though a RH hitting 1B/DH would do wonders for this roster).

I cannot imagine the reaction in Boston media or fanbase
as to how dysfunctional they would be perceived. It is a humerus thought.
I would prefer the Cards acquired the FA pitcher that they signed this
off season. I thought the Cards need for a rotation anchor was beyond any single
season. He'd have a 4 year commitment now going forward.

The entire AL central could have a player break loose. Baltimore has an old friend in Helsley.
Both western divisions will have a couple teams. Posey seems to make questionable moves as
do the Angels.

That said rentals have their pluses and a team on a budget and going for it will likely
need to use the approach at some point. I just don't see the Cardinals doing it
this season. Seems early. Trades should be more in the redundant player mode with
the Cards this season.

[rizzardo]

It was pointed out on a radio program yesterday that basically this is Mo's team developed from the minors. I thought it was an interesting thought.

In many ways, that is correct. The problem was the way MO handled prospects as they approached the majors...or the trades/signings he was making that cost many prospects that have proven valuable to other teams. It seemed clear that you would not see the "runway" available to these young players given the constant "plugging in high cost veterans" with a goal of staying relevant.
His overall philosophy was KAPUT!

[renostl]

Bloom isn't going to stray from the L-T plan.

He'll deal D. May and likely Noot, JoJo and O'Brien.

That said, this should NOT PREVENT him from adding a bullpen piece or two via trades that don't involve players he see's having a role in the L-T plan.

I'm NOT Talking a high priced closer or $12M A. Miller type or (gulp) B. Cecil, rather a P. Maton or JoJo type who came at a low cost.

Sorry rock. I think you are dead wrong about O'Brien. Makes no sense to release the best reliever on the team with 5 years of control.

He could be correct, but
imo if a player is productive AND easily affordable without
an immediate replacement, why unless it's an offer difficult to refuse.

[Red Bird Classic]

If they are still doing well in July, they might not sell some of their pieces (May, etc.), but they won't be significant buyers.

I agree. They've got a plan. stick with it. Bring more kids up, sort out the keepers. Let players develop. If they're competing for a playoff spot at the deadline, let the same kids work through that too.

The worst thing they could do is lose focus because the team is in the wild-card chase and try to rush the process. Stick with the plan. Let the team grow into a real WS contender.

I know a lot of fans were bent because they let the "stars' go, but I'm having more fun watching these kids grow than at anytime since the 2004 season.

[Red Bird Classic]

If they are still doing well in July, they might not sell some of their pieces (May, etc.), but they won't be significant buyers.

Matt the ENTIRE point of a playing a MLB season >>>>>>TO WIN
But somehow you and Bloom don’t want to do that THIS season because it doesn’t follow some plan that you THINK might help you WIN in the future
And yet WINNING this YEAR won’t count because that PLAN hasn’t come to fruition…..
No one says you can’t keep stock piling your prospects but theres NOTHING saying a SP……who they never return top prospects at the deadline, so why everyone is so aghast when this mentioned is beyond me…..if Bloom is stupid enough to give up a top prospects then so be it.
Winning teams are special and if this one in ‘26 is showing that…..then help the process

This team is fun to watch but they're not gonna win a ring. That's a 100-1 shot at best.

Bloom needs to play smart: avoid the sucker bet, and make big moves when he has a team that can win without a wildly unlikely lucky streak.

[Red Bird Classic]

No big additions this season

I would, however expect Bloom is already searching the back alleys of MLB for some help in the pen'

Im fine with them not being buyers at the deadline. But I hope they dont sabotage a post season possibility by being sellers. This group would benefit from playoff experience even if it is short-lived. A sell-off would only create more animosity from the fans.

As always. it depends on the deal.

If some team offers massive value for a guy that isn't part of our long-term future, you might make that deal even if if lessons the chance at a WC. The team can fight ahead anyway. You learn more from losing than winning.

The goal is to win the WS. Not surprise everyone by making a WC game.

[Red Bird Classic]

The question of "What if the Cardinals keep winning?" has been pervasive amongst Cardinals fans after the surprising start to the year. I read a (humorous) trade idea in the comments over at Viva El Birdos within the last week (I believe Kindred was the poster, IIRC, to credit my source).

But first the context . . .

The Cardinals are a very exciting young team at the moment that is a lot of fun to watch, compared to the past few years which where watching this team felt like a slog. This team has been pretty good offensively (even if they could use another bat in LF, 3B, and a RH platoon partner for 1B if we’re being greedy), and an exceptional one defensively. Their problems are on the mound. May (after a slow start) and McGreevy look like solid mid-rotation SPs, Pallante is having a good season thus far, and is probably a solid back of the rotation SP, or a very good swingman on a contender. Libby is still a bit of a mystery, but I think at worst he’s a solid back of the rotation SP. Leahy is another swingman who is ideally in the bullpen. This team severely lacks options in the bullpen at the moment where it’s hard to feel confident beyond ROB and JoJo. Pushing Leahy to the bullpen would help.

So the targets are clear:
-SP (mid-rotation at least)
-Backend RP (maybe more than one)

Now, the Cardinals also have players on expiring contracts (May, Romero) that fit into those categories that they could sell at the deadline and/or might not be part of the long term plan (ROB due to age). Even with manageable salaries ($10M for May, $4.26M for Romero) you’re unlikely to get a major return at the deadline for rentals like this. This works for and against the Cardinals. While it’s nice to get some filler depth of prospects by flipping players like this you’re unlikely to add meaningful pieces to your farm doing this. The Cardinals have made trades like this for a few years now, and they have pretty good depth in the minors at this point.

So the question becomes: Is it worth adding more depth by selling, or can we afford to spend some of that depth (not top prospects) by adding players like that at the deadline? Or even better, take on salary and pay even less in prospects?

This early in the year it’s hard to find teams that are already looking to sell off players, so this will likely have to wait a couple of months (unless you find a team really underperforming expectations, with a GM that might be in a tight spot, and a very specific motivation to make a move now). While the Mets are off to terrible starts they aren’t in a position where they can shed enough salary to get below luxury tax thresholds. The Phillies might be able to get below the 4th threshold by shedding $10M, but they also might see themselves as still able to compete this year, especially in a division with the Nationals and Marlins to beat up on.

There’s another team, in a much tougher division off to a terrible start, with a GM that might be feeling the pressure, and they are only $24M from the lowest threshold and thus resetting the clock on consecutive years exceeding the luxury tax threshold. This brings us back to our favorite trading partner, the Boston Red Sox. They need to move $24M to get below the $244M threshold.

If the Red Sox traded Sonny Gray, and Aroldis Chapman right now, they would shed $26.8M in payroll and drop to a $241M payroll. The longer they wait the less they shed. Both players have options for 2027 so they aren’t pure rentals. Gray is probably worth a fractions of what he was over the winter, and that’s going to keep going down as we approach the deadline. Also he has a NTC which he's used because he wanted to be in St. Louis, close to home (though the Braves could be an attractive landing spot), would he waive to come back? According to BTV Chapman’s contract is $5M underwater, but he’s off to a great start this year. They could also dump Garrett Whitlock, their setup man, making $7.5M this year and has two option years.

I know it’s crazy to talk about “undoing a trade” you just made a few months ago, but I think it actually makes a lot of sense, and they have two backend relievers that could be expired deals or options for next year (I think Chapman vests with 40 IP). All three players make $41.5M for the whole season, $24M is 93 games worth of that, or acquiring all three around the 69-70 game point of the season, or in a little more than a month from now. By then we’ll know if we’re still in the race, and if Boston is out of it in the AL. Would ownership be willing to add $24M in payroll to give us a SP and a RP (or two) to help this exciting team, and bring fans back to the ballpark? “You gotta spend money to make money”.

Imagine our current lineup with this pitching staff . . .

Gray, May, McGreevy, Libby, Pallante/Leahy/Dobbins
ROB, Chapman, Whitlock?, Romero, Fernandez, Graceffo, Soriano, Leahy/Svanson/Stanek/???

That team probably isn't going to win it all, but I think you can at least compete down the stretch with that team, and you haven't even spent all the money you saved by dumping contracts this winter. I know it's asking a lot for an "arbitrage" situation like this to occur, where we get a player back for less than we received selling them, but that's how what happens with assets with diminishing value. How many playoffs teams, or hopeful playoff teams, could potentially afford to add payroll like this to keep the prospect cost down? I think most of those teams are near the top of their budget already.

(No, I'm not going to expand the trade and get Willson Contreras back even though a RH hitting 1B/DH would do wonders for this roster).

It wouldn't matter if it did make sense, these teams wouldn't do some kind of reverse trade in a million years. They'd be admitting they screwed up the first time. But it's fun to think rewinding the clock.

Let's pretend we can reverse time and build this bunch into a group that can take on the Dodgers and win a ring:

Adds that would make this a serious WS team.

Jim Edmonds ~2004
Scott Rolen ~2004
Chris Carpenter~2005
Wainwright- 2009
And a couple of top-notch RPs.

I don't know how we would go about trading for these guys, but while we're dreaming we might just as well go BIG!