Pitchers received from Sox

[AZ_Cardsfan]

Some people just look at the on field performance and ignore the contract status of players. Winn is a very good player. But his trade value would be negative if he was signed to a 10 year $400,000,000 contract. They would have to send about $300,000,000 with him to get a buyer. Which is why Boston didn't also send back MLB top ten ranked prospects in return.

So yes Contreras and Gray etc are players good enough to play on a contender. But due to their contract status money had to be added to get another team to take them on. Lots of players in the latter half of contracts are net negatives versus what the team could sign on the open market for their price.

The players we got back in many of these trades were risky. Bloom has shown a strategy different from Mo in that he takes high risk high return chances. If he hits on a few he will look a genius in 2028 when STL is again a serious contender. If none hit bummer. We'll see.

That's all basically true. IMO money is killing baseball.
Eventually people will have had enough and quit spending their money on it.
While I still follow and root for my Birds, I spend very little money on them.

I don't disagree with this. And I'm not condoning are liking it. Just saying it is a major factor in player trade values. I wish I could be hopeful that the next CBA would reverse this trend but I am not.

[Cusecards]

Clarke-out till at least June arm surgery

Dobbins-starting season on IL recovering from 2nd ACL surgery

Fitts-control issues sporting career 5.00ERA through ST so far.

Keep in mind Bloom “paid up” for these arms.

To be fair GF he didn't "pay up".

WillyC & S. Gray were ordered salary dumps by BDWJr and Bloom got back five need arms for the major league and minor league pitching staffs.


Clarke/22 yrs old--HUGE upside (Top 10 Red Sox prospect) w/a 99 MPH fastball, known at the time of trade he wouldn't be ready until mid season

Dobbins/26 yrs old---HUGE upside as a starter, threw 5 inning simulated game just awaiting clearance to begin PFP

Fitts/25 yrs old---Should be the Cardinals #4 starter this year

They also got:
Yhoiker Fajardo (RHP): A 19-year-old prospect
&
Blake Aita (RHP): A 22-year-old minor-league pitcher.

+1. They had to go for high-ceiling guys with obvious salary dumps. They weren't getting a quality starter at ANY position for either of these guys. I love Willy C, but he's wasn't even drafted in my Fantasy league (only tells you how Cards fans overvalue his offense).
As Bernie points out, Sonny Gray was NOT good last year and was the biggest payroll dump.

WC Spring stats
.462BA
1.563OPS
Do cards have anyone close to that

WOW - I'm convinced these 13 ABs in ST completely changed the trade! They should have received Roman Anthony back!!
Who, pray tell, did you think they could have received back?
Oh, that's right, you only complain and never offer a solution (aka whiner).

Ya’ll are funny
Last year this time WC was best hitter on team…..1b free him up to have best year, stay healthy because not Catching
He’s traded and Best hitter on team with the HUGE 18mil salary can’t bring back a prospect without 2-3 new ACL, a fresh appendix scar and five fingers on each hand.

More complaining. No suggestions on how they could have done better. And BTW - your huge salary point works against you...

You have to admit....GF threads are always classics!

Classics as far as “woe are we as Cardinal fans?”

Sadly yes

[rockondlouie]

Clarke-out till at least June arm surgery

Dobbins-starting season on IL recovering from 2nd ACL surgery

Fitts-control issues sporting career 5.00ERA through ST so far.

Keep in mind Bloom “paid up” for these arms.

To be fair GF he didn't "pay up".

WillyC & S. Gray were ordered salary dumps by BDWJr and Bloom got back five need arms for the major league and minor league pitching staffs.


Clarke/22 yrs old--HUGE upside (Top 10 Red Sox prospect) w/a 99 MPH fastball, known at the time of trade he wouldn't be ready until mid season

Dobbins/26 yrs old---HUGE upside as a starter, threw 5 inning simulated game just awaiting clearance to begin PFP

Fitts/25 yrs old---Should be the Cardinals #4 starter this year

They also got:
Yhoiker Fajardo (RHP): A 19-year-old prospect
&
Blake Aita (RHP): A 22-year-old minor-league pitcher.

+1. They had to go for high-ceiling guys with obvious salary dumps. They weren't getting a quality starter at ANY position for either of these guys. I love Willy C, but he's wasn't even drafted in my Fantasy league (only tells you how Cards fans overvalue his offense).
As Bernie points out, Sonny Gray was NOT good last year and was the biggest payroll dump.

BINGO!

[rockondlouie]

Clarke-out till at least June arm surgery

Dobbins-starting season on IL recovering from 2nd ACL surgery

Fitts-control issues sporting career 5.00ERA through ST so far.

Keep in mind Bloom “paid up” for these arms.

To be fair GF he didn't "pay up".

WillyC & S. Gray were ordered salary dumps by BDWJr and Bloom got back five need arms for the major league and minor league pitching staffs.


Clarke/22 yrs old--HUGE upside (Top 10 Red Sox prospect) w/a 99 MPH fastball, known at the time of trade he wouldn't be ready until mid season

Dobbins/26 yrs old---HUGE upside as a starter, threw 5 inning simulated game just awaiting clearance to begin PFP

Fitts/25 yrs old---Should be the Cardinals #4 starter this year

They also got:
Yhoiker Fajardo (RHP): A 19-year-old prospect
&
Blake Aita (RHP): A 22-year-old minor-league pitcher.

Bloom obviously has taken a "high risk, high ceiling" strategy into roster building. I'm ok with it. Mo was a "low risk, high floor, low ceiling" guy. This roster needed an influx of power arms and power hitters. Bloom has brought them in. Again, I'm ok with the associated risk. It will take a re-calibration of perspective to get on board. There will be some washouts along the way, but the potential upside is much greater than a Mo roster. A roster made up of mostly AAAA guys cannot compete in MLB.

Same here BFM

Bloom has brought in power arms to the organization that was in desperate need of them.

Sure there's risk, just like there is w/every single pitcher!

If just one of these young starters makes it and becomes a #2 starter, then the deals were a success.

And Cards didn’t know about aneurysm and required surgery until AFTER he was traded.

No biggie GF, Cards got back some solid prospects w/upside.

[rockondlouie]

We'll see how well he recovers from his particular injury, but having a 22 yr. old pitcher in Clarke, who didn't figure into the ML roster anyway this season, be out until June isn't particularly troubling.

An, in a small sample size, Fitts has a 4.10 FIP for ST so far. If he's ~9 K/9, ~3 BB/9, and ~1 HR/9 for the season, he'll be fine.

True
As most have stated you were not going to get “high end sure thing” prospects for Arenado/Gray/WC.
Nobody was going to give you a Wetherholt type player for any of those guys!
So...you had two choices:
A) Take a quantity of lower/mid level prospects.
Or
B) GAMBLE on prospects with high end potential with injury concerns.
I agree with B(Clarke, etc).

C - trade for (somewhat younger) established MLB talent that maybe comes with a $ price tag attached, a lot less risk, and is extendable thru the next competitive window. We don't have to build our next contender entirely out of players born after 2002. They just need to not be pushing late 30's/40 before 2028 and be healthy and take care of themselves.

I certainly agree with your premise of “C” being preferable over “A” & “ B”.
And Bloom was probably thinking the same thing.
However.......getting “C” for Gray/Arenado/WC was probably unlikely to happen.

I'd have loved "C" too.

BUT

We all have to understand BDWJR didn't want to bring back salary, these were dumps and he was willing to eat some of their contracts so C. Bloom could acquire prospects to re-fill MO's dilapidated minor league system.

Hey Rock....tough for me to grade how well Bloom did in the Arenado/Gray/WC trades:
All vets with no trade clauses and high $$ contracts.
Everyone pretty much agreed they had to be moved.
No inside knowledge of WHAT Bloom was in fact offered so unable to critique his final decisions.
A number of intriguing pitchers brought back and a few have a fairly high upside.
Fingers crossed!

I think they got back as much (maybe even more) than could be expected cuse given these were ordered salary dumps by BDWJr and all of MLB knew it.

If just one pans out (#2 starter), then the deals were a success (IMO).

[Ozziesfan41]

Some people just look at the on field performance and ignore the contract status of players. Winn is a very good player. But his trade value would be negative if he was signed to a 10 year $400,000,000 contract. They would have to send about $300,000,000 with him to get a buyer. Which is why Boston didn't also send back MLB top ten ranked prospects in return.

So yes Contreras and Gray etc are players good enough to play on a contender. But due to their contract status money had to be added to get another team to take them on. Lots of players in the latter half of contracts are net negatives versus what the team could sign on the open market for their price.

The players we got back in many of these trades were risky. Bloom has shown a strategy different from Mo in that he takes high risk high return chances. If he hits on a few he will look a genius in 2028 when STL is again a serious contender. If none hit bummer. We'll see.

Arenado’s contract was negative and out of whack……WC and Gray were short term and fairly valued.

Not by you you said the contracts sucked ever since the cardinals signed them and said they were way overpaid and the cardinals were stupid for overpaying them you said that repeatedly just how stupid the cardinals were for overpaying them said it from the time they signed to the time they were traded then instantly once traded you decided the contracts were fairly valued lol hilarious. If they had kept them you would still be whining and complaining about how overpaid and terrible they are

[mattmitchl44]

We'll see how well he recovers from his particular injury, but having a 22 yr. old pitcher in Clarke, who didn't figure into the ML roster anyway this season, be out until June isn't particularly troubling.

An, in a small sample size, Fitts has a 4.10 FIP for ST so far. If he's ~9 K/9, ~3 BB/9, and ~1 HR/9 for the season, he'll be fine.

True
As most have stated you were not going to get “high end sure thing” prospects for Arenado/Gray/WC.
Nobody was going to give you a Wetherholt type player for any of those guys!
So...you had two choices:
A) Take a quantity of lower/mid level prospects.
Or
B) GAMBLE on prospects with high end potential with injury concerns.
I agree with B(Clarke, etc).

C - trade for (somewhat younger) established MLB talent that maybe comes with a $ price tag attached, a lot less risk, and is extendable thru the next competitive window. We don't have to build our next contender entirely out of players born after 2002. They just need to not be pushing late 30's/40 before 2028 and be healthy and take care of themselves.

You can certainly accommodate some of that. But if you start having to push towards almost FA market prices to extend those players, they can't afford a lot of them.

Not a lot, but they would be replacing (some of) Gray's salary, and ideally several years younger. As it is, Libby will be costing us FA prices by 2028 anyway. One more top talent with a longer runway than Gray to anchor around could be ideal.

That is certainly one way of spending payroll.

Right now, however, I think they are in the mode of prioritizing obtaining prospects who are less far along - so they have an even longer runway to having to spend big $ just to keep them - and can make decisions later about how to use their payroll muscle once those guys do, or do not, pan out.

[Goldfan]

We'll see how well he recovers from his particular injury, but having a 22 yr. old pitcher in Clarke, who didn't figure into the ML roster anyway this season, be out until June isn't particularly troubling.

An, in a small sample size, Fitts has a 4.10 FIP for ST so far. If he's ~9 K/9, ~3 BB/9, and ~1 HR/9 for the season, he'll be fine.

True
As most have stated you were not going to get “high end sure thing” prospects for Arenado/Gray/WC.
Nobody was going to give you a Wetherholt type player for any of those guys!
So...you had two choices:
A) Take a quantity of lower/mid level prospects.
Or
B) GAMBLE on prospects with high end potential with injury concerns.
I agree with B(Clarke, etc).

C - trade for (somewhat younger) established MLB talent that maybe comes with a $ price tag attached, a lot less risk, and is extendable thru the next competitive window. We don't have to build our next contender entirely out of players born after 2002. They just need to not be pushing late 30's/40 before 2028 and be healthy and take care of themselves.

You can certainly accommodate some of that. But if you start having to push towards almost FA market prices to extend those players, they can't afford a lot of them.

Not a lot, but they would be replacing (some of) Gray's salary, and ideally several years younger. As it is, Libby will be costing us FA prices by 2028 anyway. One more top talent with a longer runway than Gray to anchor around could be ideal.

That is certainly one way of spending payroll.

Right now, however, I think they are in the mode of prioritizing obtaining prospects who are less far along - so they have an even longer runway to having to spend big $ just to keep them - and can make decisions later about how to use their payroll muscle once those guys do, or do not, pan out.

A review of Clarke’s injury record while still an amateur illustrates the inherent risk he carries and explains why he was a fifth rounder, not a first rounder, in the 2024 draft. Long before he signed with Boston, Clarke was well-traveled, and not just to see doctors.

He had Tommy John surgery in 2019 and was not drafted as a high schooler in Virginia. Clarke was originally recruited by the University of Alabama but was unable to pitch his freshman year of 2022 after surgery for thoracic outlet syndrome. TOS has been career-ending for some. It is caused by compression of nerves/vessels between the collarbone and first rib, leading to arm pain, numbness, weakness and tingling.

From there, Clarke backtracked, transferring to State College of Florida, Manatee-Sarasota and pitched just 3 2/3 innings in 2023. Clarke missed the remainder of his first season at the junior college due to a stress fracture in his shoulder.

In 2024, his only full-ish season to date, Clarke threw 74 2/3 innings over 14 starts. Both were Manatees team highs. He logged a 4.36 ERA, fanned an impressive 13 batters per nine innings and had a walk rate of 4.2 per nine. That was enough to gain the attention of the University of South Carolina, where Clarke committed to transfer prior to the draft

2025, arm numb/aneurysm surgery…..out til June

When reviewing this, and knowing the Cards require serviceable prospects, why wouldn’t Bloom opt for another name? What are the chances Clarke ever completes a MLB season. Obviously TOS led to the numb arm/aneurysm just recently. All these issues are interconnected and should have had a giant alarm going off.

[rockondlouie]

A review of Clarke’s injury record while still an amateur illustrates the inherent risk he carries and explains why he was a fifth rounder, not a first rounder, in the 2024 draft. Long before he signed with Boston, Clarke was well-traveled, and not just to see doctors.

He had Tommy John surgery in 2019 and was not drafted as a high schooler in Virginia. Clarke was originally recruited by the University of Alabama but was unable to pitch his freshman year of 2022 after surgery for thoracic outlet syndrome. TOS has been career-ending for some. It is caused by compression of nerves/vessels between the collarbone and first rib, leading to arm pain, numbness, weakness and tingling.

From there, Clarke backtracked, transferring to State College of Florida, Manatee-Sarasota and pitched just 3 2/3 innings in 2023. Clarke missed the remainder of his first season at the junior college due to a stress fracture in his shoulder.

In 2024, his only full-ish season to date, Clarke threw 74 2/3 innings over 14 starts. Both were Manatees team highs. He logged a 4.36 ERA, fanned an impressive 13 batters per nine innings and had a walk rate of 4.2 per nine. That was enough to gain the attention of the University of South Carolina, where Clarke committed to transfer prior to the draft

2025, arm numb/aneurysm surgery…..out til June

When reviewing this, and knowing the Cards require serviceable prospects, why wouldn’t Bloom opt for another name? What are the chances Clarke ever completes a MLB season. Obviously TOS led to the numb arm/aneurysm just recently. All these issues are interconnected and should have had a giant alarm going off.

I'm certainly not saying Clarke will reach this level GF but............who's this pitcher before he was acquired by the Cardinals?


Chronological Injury Timeline

September 1999: Bone Spur Surgery
After dealing with right elbow pain for much of the season—including a stint on the disabled list in June for elbow inflammation—Carpenter underwent surgery on September 16, 1999, to remove a bone spur from his right elbow.

2000: General Arm Injuries
A "smorgasbord" of arm injuries reportedly plagued him throughout the 2000 season, which contributed to a high 6.26 ERA and inconsistent durability.

April 2002: Shoulder Tendinitis
Carpenter began the 2002 season on the 15-day disabled list with right shoulder tendinitis. He returned briefly in April but was immediately placed back on the DL after just one start when the tendinitis recurred.

August–September 2002: Torn Labrum (SLAP Tear)
After returning in June, Carpenter pitched through July before being sidelined again in August with "looseness" in his right shoulder. This was ultimately diagnosed as a SLAP lesion (torn labrum), an injury considered a "professional death sentence" for pitchers at the time.

September 2002: Labrum Surgery
He underwent arthroscopic surgery on September 4, 2002, to repair the tear. Following this procedure, the Blue Jays removed him from the 40-man roster and offered a minor-league deal, which he refused, choosing instead to sign with the Cardinals as a free agent in December 2002. -From A.I.


Yep

CHRIS CARPENTER
CY Young Award Winner
2 Time World Series Champion

One of the four or five best pitchers to ever wear the Birds on the Bat


Sometimes big risk can equal big reward

[82birds]

Clarke-out till at least June arm surgery

Dobbins-starting season on IL recovering from 2nd ACL surgery

Fitts-control issues sporting career 5.00ERA through ST so far.

Keep in mind Bloom “paid up” for these arms.

To be fair GF he didn't "pay up".

WillyC & S. Gray were ordered salary dumps by BDWJr and Bloom got back five need arms for the major league and minor league pitching staffs.


Clarke/22 yrs old--HUGE upside (Top 10 Red Sox prospect) w/a 99 MPH fastball, known at the time of trade he wouldn't be ready until mid season

Dobbins/26 yrs old---HUGE upside as a starter, threw 5 inning simulated game just awaiting clearance to begin PFP

Fitts/25 yrs old---Should be the Cardinals #4 starter this year

They also got:
Yhoiker Fajardo (RHP): A 19-year-old prospect
&
Blake Aita (RHP): A 22-year-old minor-league pitcher.

I like Dobbins, but I don't know if I'd say HUGE upside. He's a nice pitcher, though. I particularly like Fajardo. He's 19, but looks more poised than his age would suggest. He could be the best pitcher we got out of all the Sox guys.

I'm intrigued by Fajardo too

[Goldfan]

A review of Clarke’s injury record while still an amateur illustrates the inherent risk he carries and explains why he was a fifth rounder, not a first rounder, in the 2024 draft. Long before he signed with Boston, Clarke was well-traveled, and not just to see doctors.

He had Tommy John surgery in 2019 and was not drafted as a high schooler in Virginia. Clarke was originally recruited by the University of Alabama but was unable to pitch his freshman year of 2022 after surgery for thoracic outlet syndrome. TOS has been career-ending for some. It is caused by compression of nerves/vessels between the collarbone and first rib, leading to arm pain, numbness, weakness and tingling.

From there, Clarke backtracked, transferring to State College of Florida, Manatee-Sarasota and pitched just 3 2/3 innings in 2023. Clarke missed the remainder of his first season at the junior college due to a stress fracture in his shoulder.

In 2024, his only full-ish season to date, Clarke threw 74 2/3 innings over 14 starts. Both were Manatees team highs. He logged a 4.36 ERA, fanned an impressive 13 batters per nine innings and had a walk rate of 4.2 per nine. That was enough to gain the attention of the University of South Carolina, where Clarke committed to transfer prior to the draft

2025, arm numb/aneurysm surgery…..out til June

When reviewing this, and knowing the Cards require serviceable prospects, why wouldn’t Bloom opt for another name? What are the chances Clarke ever completes a MLB season. Obviously TOS led to the numb arm/aneurysm just recently. All these issues are interconnected and should have had a giant alarm going off.

I'm certainly not saying Clarke will reach this level GF but............who's this pitcher before he was acquired by the Cardinals?


Chronological Injury Timeline

September 1999: Bone Spur Surgery
After dealing with right elbow pain for much of the season—including a stint on the disabled list in June for elbow inflammation—Carpenter underwent surgery on September 16, 1999, to remove a bone spur from his right elbow.

2000: General Arm Injuries
A "smorgasbord" of arm injuries reportedly plagued him throughout the 2000 season, which contributed to a high 6.26 ERA and inconsistent durability.

April 2002: Shoulder Tendinitis
Carpenter began the 2002 season on the 15-day disabled list with right shoulder tendinitis. He returned briefly in April but was immediately placed back on the DL after just one start when the tendinitis recurred.

August–September 2002: Torn Labrum (SLAP Tear)
After returning in June, Carpenter pitched through July before being sidelined again in August with "looseness" in his right shoulder. This was ultimately diagnosed as a SLAP lesion (torn labrum), an injury considered a "professional death sentence" for pitchers at the time.

September 2002: Labrum Surgery
He underwent arthroscopic surgery on September 4, 2002, to repair the tear. Following this procedure, the Blue Jays removed him from the 40-man roster and offered a minor-league deal, which he refused, choosing instead to sign with the Cardinals as a free agent in December 2002. -From A.I.


Yep

CHRIS CARPENTER
CY Young Award Winner
2 Time World Series Champion

One of the four or five best pitchers to ever wear the Birds on the Bat


Sometimes big risk can equal big reward

I don’t think a Bone Spur and Tendinitis Rank up there with what Clarke has gone through
Circulation issues at his age BEFORE any MLB time is huge.

[Goldfan]

A review of Clarke’s injury record while still an amateur illustrates the inherent risk he carries and explains why he was a fifth rounder, not a first rounder, in the 2024 draft. Long before he signed with Boston, Clarke was well-traveled, and not just to see doctors.

He had Tommy John surgery in 2019 and was not drafted as a high schooler in Virginia. Clarke was originally recruited by the University of Alabama but was unable to pitch his freshman year of 2022 after surgery for thoracic outlet syndrome. TOS has been career-ending for some. It is caused by compression of nerves/vessels between the collarbone and first rib, leading to arm pain, numbness, weakness and tingling.

From there, Clarke backtracked, transferring to State College of Florida, Manatee-Sarasota and pitched just 3 2/3 innings in 2023. Clarke missed the remainder of his first season at the junior college due to a stress fracture in his shoulder.

In 2024, his only full-ish season to date, Clarke threw 74 2/3 innings over 14 starts. Both were Manatees team highs. He logged a 4.36 ERA, fanned an impressive 13 batters per nine innings and had a walk rate of 4.2 per nine. That was enough to gain the attention of the University of South Carolina, where Clarke committed to transfer prior to the draft

2025, arm numb/aneurysm surgery…..out til June

When reviewing this, and knowing the Cards require serviceable prospects, why wouldn’t Bloom opt for another name? What are the chances Clarke ever completes a MLB season. Obviously TOS led to the numb arm/aneurysm just recently. All these issues are interconnected and should have had a giant alarm going off.

I'm certainly not saying Clarke will reach this level GF but............who's this pitcher before he was acquired by the Cardinals?


Chronological Injury Timeline

September 1999: Bone Spur Surgery
After dealing with right elbow pain for much of the season—including a stint on the disabled list in June for elbow inflammation—Carpenter underwent surgery on September 16, 1999, to remove a bone spur from his right elbow.

2000: General Arm Injuries
A "smorgasbord" of arm injuries reportedly plagued him throughout the 2000 season, which contributed to a high 6.26 ERA and inconsistent durability.

April 2002: Shoulder Tendinitis
Carpenter began the 2002 season on the 15-day disabled list with right shoulder tendinitis. He returned briefly in April but was immediately placed back on the DL after just one start when the tendinitis recurred.

August–September 2002: Torn Labrum (SLAP Tear)
After returning in June, Carpenter pitched through July before being sidelined again in August with "looseness" in his right shoulder. This was ultimately diagnosed as a SLAP lesion (torn labrum), an injury considered a "professional death sentence" for pitchers at the time.

September 2002: Labrum Surgery
He underwent arthroscopic surgery on September 4, 2002, to repair the tear. Following this procedure, the Blue Jays removed him from the 40-man roster and offered a minor-league deal, which he refused, choosing instead to sign with the Cardinals as a free agent in December 2002. -From A.I.


Yep

CHRIS CARPENTER
CY Young Award Winner
2 Time World Series Champion

One of the four or five best pitchers to ever wear the Birds on the Bat


Sometimes big risk can equal big reward

I don’t think a Bone Spur and Tendinitis Rank up there with what Clarke has gone through
Circulation issues at his age BEFORE any MLB time is huge.

And Carp was signed……nothing given up….not 2 MLB starters and 28mil

[rockondlouie]

A review of Clarke’s injury record while still an amateur illustrates the inherent risk he carries and explains why he was a fifth rounder, not a first rounder, in the 2024 draft. Long before he signed with Boston, Clarke was well-traveled, and not just to see doctors.

He had Tommy John surgery in 2019 and was not drafted as a high schooler in Virginia. Clarke was originally recruited by the University of Alabama but was unable to pitch his freshman year of 2022 after surgery for thoracic outlet syndrome. TOS has been career-ending for some. It is caused by compression of nerves/vessels between the collarbone and first rib, leading to arm pain, numbness, weakness and tingling.

From there, Clarke backtracked, transferring to State College of Florida, Manatee-Sarasota and pitched just 3 2/3 innings in 2023. Clarke missed the remainder of his first season at the junior college due to a stress fracture in his shoulder.

In 2024, his only full-ish season to date, Clarke threw 74 2/3 innings over 14 starts. Both were Manatees team highs. He logged a 4.36 ERA, fanned an impressive 13 batters per nine innings and had a walk rate of 4.2 per nine. That was enough to gain the attention of the University of South Carolina, where Clarke committed to transfer prior to the draft

2025, arm numb/aneurysm surgery…..out til June

When reviewing this, and knowing the Cards require serviceable prospects, why wouldn’t Bloom opt for another name? What are the chances Clarke ever completes a MLB season. Obviously TOS led to the numb arm/aneurysm just recently. All these issues are interconnected and should have had a giant alarm going off.

I'm certainly not saying Clarke will reach this level GF but............who's this pitcher before he was acquired by the Cardinals?


Chronological Injury Timeline

September 1999: Bone Spur Surgery
After dealing with right elbow pain for much of the season—including a stint on the disabled list in June for elbow inflammation—Carpenter underwent surgery on September 16, 1999, to remove a bone spur from his right elbow.

2000: General Arm Injuries
A "smorgasbord" of arm injuries reportedly plagued him throughout the 2000 season, which contributed to a high 6.26 ERA and inconsistent durability.

April 2002: Shoulder Tendinitis
Carpenter began the 2002 season on the 15-day disabled list with right shoulder tendinitis. He returned briefly in April but was immediately placed back on the DL after just one start when the tendinitis recurred.

August–September 2002: Torn Labrum (SLAP Tear)
After returning in June, Carpenter pitched through July before being sidelined again in August with "looseness" in his right shoulder. This was ultimately diagnosed as a SLAP lesion (torn labrum), an injury considered a "professional death sentence" for pitchers at the time.

September 2002: Labrum Surgery
He underwent arthroscopic surgery on September 4, 2002, to repair the tear. Following this procedure, the Blue Jays removed him from the 40-man roster and offered a minor-league deal, which he refused, choosing instead to sign with the Cardinals as a free agent in December 2002. -From A.I.


Yep

CHRIS CARPENTER
CY Young Award Winner
2 Time World Series Champion

One of the four or five best pitchers to ever wear the Birds on the Bat


Sometimes big risk can equal big reward

I don’t think a Bone Spur and Tendinitis Rank up there with what Clarke has gone through
Circulation issues at his age BEFORE any MLB time is huge.

We'll see

I've read that Tristan Beck and David Cone faced similar arm aneurysms and successfully returned.

[Cusecards]

We'll see how well he recovers from his particular injury, but having a 22 yr. old pitcher in Clarke, who didn't figure into the ML roster anyway this season, be out until June isn't particularly troubling.

An, in a small sample size, Fitts has a 4.10 FIP for ST so far. If he's ~9 K/9, ~3 BB/9, and ~1 HR/9 for the season, he'll be fine.

True
As most have stated you were not going to get “high end sure thing” prospects for Arenado/Gray/WC.
Nobody was going to give you a Wetherholt type player for any of those guys!
So...you had two choices:
A) Take a quantity of lower/mid level prospects.
Or
B) GAMBLE on prospects with high end potential with injury concerns.
I agree with B(Clarke, etc).

C - trade for (somewhat younger) established MLB talent that maybe comes with a $ price tag attached, a lot less risk, and is extendable thru the next competitive window. We don't have to build our next contender entirely out of players born after 2002. They just need to not be pushing late 30's/40 before 2028 and be healthy and take care of themselves.

I certainly agree with your premise of “C” being preferable over “A” & “ B”.
And Bloom was probably thinking the same thing.
However.......getting “C” for Gray/Arenado/WC was probably unlikely to happen.

I'd have loved "C" too.

BUT

We all have to understand BDWJR didn't want to bring back salary, these were dumps and he was willing to eat some of their contracts so C. Bloom could acquire prospects to re-fill MO's dilapidated minor league system.

Hey Rock....tough for me to grade how well Bloom did in the Arenado/Gray/WC trades:
All vets with no trade clauses and high $$ contracts.
Everyone pretty much agreed they had to be moved.
No inside knowledge of WHAT Bloom was in fact offered so unable to critique his final decisions.
A number of intriguing pitchers brought back and a few have a fairly high upside.
Fingers crossed!

I think they got back as much (maybe even more) than could be expected cuse given these were ordered salary dumps by BDWJr and all of MLB knew it.

If just one pans out (#2 starter), then the deals were a success (IMO).

True

[Cusecards]

Some people just look at the on field performance and ignore the contract status of players. Winn is a very good player. But his trade value would be negative if he was signed to a 10 year $400,000,000 contract. They would have to send about $300,000,000 with him to get a buyer. Which is why Boston didn't also send back MLB top ten ranked prospects in return.

So yes Contreras and Gray etc are players good enough to play on a contender. But due to their contract status money had to be added to get another team to take them on. Lots of players in the latter half of contracts are net negatives versus what the team could sign on the open market for their price.

The players we got back in many of these trades were risky. Bloom has shown a strategy different from Mo in that he takes high risk high return chances. If he hits on a few he will look a genius in 2028 when STL is again a serious contender. If none hit bummer. We'll see.

Arenado’s contract was negative and out of whack……WC and Gray were short term and fairly valued.

Not by you you said the contracts sucked ever since the cardinals signed them and said they were way overpaid and the cardinals were stupid for overpaying them you said that repeatedly just how stupid the cardinals were for overpaying them said it from the time they signed to the time they were traded then instantly once traded you decided the contracts were fairly valued lol hilarious. If they had kept them you would still be whining and complaining about how overpaid and terrible they are

Oz...I think he needs a new dart board to throw at in order to “formulate” his opinions?? LOL
Either that or improve his aim?????

[Absolut]

Man. If we had gray arenado and Contreras…