Pitchers received from Sox

[mattmitchl44]

We'll see how well he recovers from his particular injury, but having a 22 yr. old pitcher in Clarke, who didn't figure into the ML roster anyway this season, be out until June isn't particularly troubling.

An, in a small sample size, Fitts has a 4.10 FIP for ST so far. If he's ~9 K/9, ~3 BB/9, and ~1 HR/9 for the season, he'll be fine.

[Ron Gant's Bicep]

No need to play the season. We can just make declaratory judgements on all players and trades based on one month of exhibition baseball.

[BrockFloodMaris]

Clarke-out till at least June arm surgery

Dobbins-starting season on IL recovering from 2nd ACL surgery

Fitts-control issues sporting career 5.00ERA through ST so far.

Keep in mind Bloom “paid up” for these arms.

To be fair GF he didn't "pay up".

WillyC & S. Gray were ordered salary dumps by BDWJr and Bloom got back five need arms for the major league and minor league pitching staffs.


Clarke/22 yrs old--HUGE upside (Top 10 Red Sox prospect) w/a 99 MPH fastball, known at the time of trade he wouldn't be ready until mid season

Dobbins/26 yrs old---HUGE upside as a starter, threw 5 inning simulated game just awaiting clearance to begin PFP

Fitts/25 yrs old---Should be the Cardinals #4 starter this year

They also got:
Yhoiker Fajardo (RHP): A 19-year-old prospect
&
Blake Aita (RHP): A 22-year-old minor-league pitcher.

Bloom obviously has taken a "high risk, high ceiling" strategy into roster building. I'm ok with it. Mo was a "low risk, high floor, low ceiling" guy. This roster needed an influx of power arms and power hitters. Bloom has brought them in. Again, I'm ok with the associated risk. It will take a re-calibration of perspective to get on board. There will be some washouts along the way, but the potential upside is much greater than a Mo roster. A roster made up of mostly AAAA guys cannot compete in MLB.

Same here BFM

Bloom has brought in power arms to the organization that was in desperate need of them.

Sure there's risk, just like there is w/every single pitcher!

If just one of these young starters makes it and becomes a #2 starter, then the deals were a success.

And Cards didn’t know about aneurysm and required surgery until AFTER he was traded.

I understand that you are not ok with the risk element of Bloom's strategy. The problem with reduced risk is reduced upside (see Mo's plan). Bloom has some cajones, and that is needed for a midmarket team to compete with the big spenders.

[Cusecards]

We'll see how well he recovers from his particular injury, but having a 22 yr. old pitcher in Clarke, who didn't figure into the ML roster anyway this season, be out until June isn't particularly troubling.

An, in a small sample size, Fitts has a 4.10 FIP for ST so far. If he's ~9 K/9, ~3 BB/9, and ~1 HR/9 for the season, he'll be fine.

True
As most have stated you were not going to get “high end sure thing” prospects for Arenado/Gray/WC.
Nobody was going to give you a Wetherholt type player for any of those guys!
So...you had two choices:
A) Take a quantity of lower/mid level prospects.
Or
B) GAMBLE on prospects with high end potential with injury concerns.
I agree with B(Clarke, etc).

[clemonsonroots]

Also, left out Fujardo

[Carp4Cy]

Clarke-out till at least June arm surgery

Dobbins-starting season on IL recovering from 2nd ACL surgery

Fitts-control issues sporting career 5.00ERA through ST so far.

Keep in mind Bloom “paid up” for these arms.

Can’t argue with that. But I still believe it was an effort of power arm saturation with the intent of shaking one out.

Also in the deals you opened up second and third, neither to have a known player at this time.

It’s a strategy- like gambling.

I understand paying up for talent……but paying up for damaged goods looks a little questionable
Clarke’s injury is a significant one for a pitcher and Dobbins might have been dealt poor ACL genetics. These aren’t surefire TJ recoveries.

I hear ya. I guess that in theory, most all pitchers go thru TJ or some type of serious throwing issue. Again, how to combat that, meaning almost a given for injury. We choose saturation, hoping one would work.

Who do you take a chance on. What levels.

I’d say getting a stud pitcher thru attrition is harder than a stud hitter.

And yet Gray was healthy for us. Yes he's expensive, but it makes the paying $20M+ for injured prospects that might not pan out at all a curious risk / cost / reward scenario. Going after an established MLB starter is a lot closer to a sure thing, as much as it can be anyway.

[rockondlouie]

We'll see how well he recovers from his particular injury, but having a 22 yr. old pitcher in Clarke, who didn't figure into the ML roster anyway this season, be out until June isn't particularly troubling.

An, in a small sample size, Fitts has a 4.10 FIP for ST so far. If he's ~9 K/9, ~3 BB/9, and ~1 HR/9 for the season, he'll be fine.

The key to success for Fitts seems to be keeping the ball in the park.

If he can cut down on giving up HR's, then he could be a solid #4 starter.

[Carp4Cy]

We'll see how well he recovers from his particular injury, but having a 22 yr. old pitcher in Clarke, who didn't figure into the ML roster anyway this season, be out until June isn't particularly troubling.

An, in a small sample size, Fitts has a 4.10 FIP for ST so far. If he's ~9 K/9, ~3 BB/9, and ~1 HR/9 for the season, he'll be fine.

True
As most have stated you were not going to get “high end sure thing” prospects for Arenado/Gray/WC.
Nobody was going to give you a Wetherholt type player for any of those guys!
So...you had two choices:
A) Take a quantity of lower/mid level prospects.
Or
B) GAMBLE on prospects with high end potential with injury concerns.
I agree with B(Clarke, etc).

C - trade for (somewhat younger) established MLB talent that maybe comes with a $ price tag attached, a lot less risk, and is extendable thru the next competitive window. We don't have to build our next contender entirely out of players born after 2002. They just need to not be pushing late 30's/40 before 2028 and be healthy and take care of themselves.

[Carp4Cy]

Clarke-out till at least June arm surgery

Dobbins-starting season on IL recovering from 2nd ACL surgery

Fitts-control issues sporting career 5.00ERA through ST so far.

Keep in mind Bloom “paid up” for these arms.

To be fair GF he didn't "pay up".

WillyC & S. Gray were ordered salary dumps by BDWJr and Bloom got back five need arms for the major league and minor league pitching staffs.


Clarke/22 yrs old--HUGE upside (Top 10 Red Sox prospect) w/a 99 MPH fastball, known at the time of trade he wouldn't be ready until mid season

Dobbins/26 yrs old---HUGE upside as a starter, threw 5 inning simulated game just awaiting clearance to begin PFP

Fitts/25 yrs old---Should be the Cardinals #4 starter this year

They also got:
Yhoiker Fajardo (RHP): A 19-year-old prospect
&
Blake Aita (RHP): A 22-year-old minor-league pitcher.

Bloom obviously has taken a "high risk, high ceiling" strategy into roster building. I'm ok with it. Mo was a "low risk, high floor, low ceiling" guy. This roster needed an influx of power arms and power hitters. Bloom has brought them in. Again, I'm ok with the associated risk. It will take a re-calibration of perspective to get on board. There will be some washouts along the way, but the potential upside is much greater than a Mo roster. A roster made up of mostly AAAA guys cannot compete in MLB.

Same here BFM

Bloom has brought in power arms to the organization that was in desperate need of them.

Sure there's risk, just like there is w/every single pitcher!

If just one of these young starters makes it and becomes a #2 starter, then the deals were a success.

And Cards didn’t know about aneurysm and required surgery until AFTER he was traded.

I understand that you are not ok with the risk element of Bloom's strategy. The problem with reduced risk is reduced upside (see Mo's plan). Bloom has some cajones, and that is needed for a midmarket team to compete with the big spenders.

Goldy and Nado had as much upside/ceiling as anyone in the league thru 2022. Gray wasn't quite Hunter Greene, but he was top 15/20 in major categories.

[Cusecards]

We'll see how well he recovers from his particular injury, but having a 22 yr. old pitcher in Clarke, who didn't figure into the ML roster anyway this season, be out until June isn't particularly troubling.

An, in a small sample size, Fitts has a 4.10 FIP for ST so far. If he's ~9 K/9, ~3 BB/9, and ~1 HR/9 for the season, he'll be fine.

True
As most have stated you were not going to get “high end sure thing” prospects for Arenado/Gray/WC.
Nobody was going to give you a Wetherholt type player for any of those guys!
So...you had two choices:
A) Take a quantity of lower/mid level prospects.
Or
B) GAMBLE on prospects with high end potential with injury concerns.
I agree with B(Clarke, etc).

C - trade for (somewhat younger) established MLB talent that maybe comes with a $ price tag attached, a lot less risk, and is extendable thru the next competitive window. We don't have to build our next contender entirely out of players born after 2002. They just need to not be pushing late 30's/40 before 2028 and be healthy and take care of themselves.

I certainly agree with your premise of “C” being preferable over “A” & “ B”.
And Bloom was probably thinking the same thing.
However.......getting “C” for Gray/Arenado/WC was probably unlikely to happen.

[Carp4Cy]

We'll see how well he recovers from his particular injury, but having a 22 yr. old pitcher in Clarke, who didn't figure into the ML roster anyway this season, be out until June isn't particularly troubling.

An, in a small sample size, Fitts has a 4.10 FIP for ST so far. If he's ~9 K/9, ~3 BB/9, and ~1 HR/9 for the season, he'll be fine.

True
As most have stated you were not going to get “high end sure thing” prospects for Arenado/Gray/WC.
Nobody was going to give you a Wetherholt type player for any of those guys!
So...you had two choices:
A) Take a quantity of lower/mid level prospects.
Or
B) GAMBLE on prospects with high end potential with injury concerns.
I agree with B(Clarke, etc).

C - trade for (somewhat younger) established MLB talent that maybe comes with a $ price tag attached, a lot less risk, and is extendable thru the next competitive window. We don't have to build our next contender entirely out of players born after 2002. They just need to not be pushing late 30's/40 before 2028 and be healthy and take care of themselves.

I certainly agree with your premise of “C” being preferable over “A” & “ B”.
And Bloom was probably thinking the same thing.
However.......getting “C” for Gray/Arenado/WC was probably unlikely to happen.

Directly yes. It would have taken Donovan (still might have been worth it), or some other configuration of surplus C or Romero or Helsley last July added in. And probably still a 3 way trade.

[mattmitchl44]

We'll see how well he recovers from his particular injury, but having a 22 yr. old pitcher in Clarke, who didn't figure into the ML roster anyway this season, be out until June isn't particularly troubling.

An, in a small sample size, Fitts has a 4.10 FIP for ST so far. If he's ~9 K/9, ~3 BB/9, and ~1 HR/9 for the season, he'll be fine.

True
As most have stated you were not going to get “high end sure thing” prospects for Arenado/Gray/WC.
Nobody was going to give you a Wetherholt type player for any of those guys!
So...you had two choices:
A) Take a quantity of lower/mid level prospects.
Or
B) GAMBLE on prospects with high end potential with injury concerns.
I agree with B(Clarke, etc).

C - trade for (somewhat younger) established MLB talent that maybe comes with a $ price tag attached, a lot less risk, and is extendable thru the next competitive window. We don't have to build our next contender entirely out of players born after 2002. They just need to not be pushing late 30's/40 before 2028 and be healthy and take care of themselves.

You can certainly accommodate some of that. But if you start having to push towards almost FA market prices to extend those players, they can't afford a lot of them.

[rockondlouie]

We'll see how well he recovers from his particular injury, but having a 22 yr. old pitcher in Clarke, who didn't figure into the ML roster anyway this season, be out until June isn't particularly troubling.

An, in a small sample size, Fitts has a 4.10 FIP for ST so far. If he's ~9 K/9, ~3 BB/9, and ~1 HR/9 for the season, he'll be fine.

True
As most have stated you were not going to get “high end sure thing” prospects for Arenado/Gray/WC.
Nobody was going to give you a Wetherholt type player for any of those guys!
So...you had two choices:
A) Take a quantity of lower/mid level prospects.
Or
B) GAMBLE on prospects with high end potential with injury concerns.
I agree with B(Clarke, etc).

C - trade for (somewhat younger) established MLB talent that maybe comes with a $ price tag attached, a lot less risk, and is extendable thru the next competitive window. We don't have to build our next contender entirely out of players born after 2002. They just need to not be pushing late 30's/40 before 2028 and be healthy and take care of themselves.

I certainly agree with your premise of “C” being preferable over “A” & “ B”.
And Bloom was probably thinking the same thing.
However.......getting “C” for Gray/Arenado/WC was probably unlikely to happen.

I'd have loved "C" too.

BUT

We all have to understand BDWJR didn't want to bring back salary, these were dumps and he was willing to eat some of their contracts so C. Bloom could acquire prospects to re-fill MO's dilapidated minor league system.

[Carp4Cy]

We'll see how well he recovers from his particular injury, but having a 22 yr. old pitcher in Clarke, who didn't figure into the ML roster anyway this season, be out until June isn't particularly troubling.

An, in a small sample size, Fitts has a 4.10 FIP for ST so far. If he's ~9 K/9, ~3 BB/9, and ~1 HR/9 for the season, he'll be fine.

True
As most have stated you were not going to get “high end sure thing” prospects for Arenado/Gray/WC.
Nobody was going to give you a Wetherholt type player for any of those guys!
So...you had two choices:
A) Take a quantity of lower/mid level prospects.
Or
B) GAMBLE on prospects with high end potential with injury concerns.
I agree with B(Clarke, etc).

C - trade for (somewhat younger) established MLB talent that maybe comes with a $ price tag attached, a lot less risk, and is extendable thru the next competitive window. We don't have to build our next contender entirely out of players born after 2002. They just need to not be pushing late 30's/40 before 2028 and be healthy and take care of themselves.

You can certainly accommodate some of that. But if you start having to push towards almost FA market prices to extend those players, they can't afford a lot of them.

Not a lot, but they would be replacing (some of) Gray's salary, and ideally several years younger. As it is, Libby will be costing us FA prices by 2028 anyway. One more top talent with a longer runway than Gray to anchor around could be ideal.

[WLTFE]

Clarke-out till at least June arm surgery

Dobbins-starting season on IL recovering from 2nd ACL surgery

Fitts-control issues sporting career 5.00ERA through ST so far.

Keep in mind Bloom “paid up” for these arms.

Can’t argue with that. But I still believe it was an effort of power arm saturation with the intent of shaking one out.

Also in the deals you opened up second and third, neither to have a known player at this time.

It’s a strategy- like gambling.

I understand paying up for talent……but paying up for damaged goods looks a little questionable
Clarke’s injury is a significant one for a pitcher and Dobbins might have been dealt poor ACL genetics. These aren’t surefire TJ recoveries.

I hear ya. I guess that in theory, most all pitchers go thru TJ or some type of serious throwing issue. Again, how to combat that, meaning almost a given for injury. We choose saturation, hoping one would work.

Who do you take a chance on. What levels.

I’d say getting a stud pitcher thru attrition is harder than a stud hitter.

Good baseball discussion...hopefully the front office (donkey) kissers will not get involved and sabotage another thread!

[Cusecards]

We'll see how well he recovers from his particular injury, but having a 22 yr. old pitcher in Clarke, who didn't figure into the ML roster anyway this season, be out until June isn't particularly troubling.

An, in a small sample size, Fitts has a 4.10 FIP for ST so far. If he's ~9 K/9, ~3 BB/9, and ~1 HR/9 for the season, he'll be fine.

True
As most have stated you were not going to get “high end sure thing” prospects for Arenado/Gray/WC.
Nobody was going to give you a Wetherholt type player for any of those guys!
So...you had two choices:
A) Take a quantity of lower/mid level prospects.
Or
B) GAMBLE on prospects with high end potential with injury concerns.
I agree with B(Clarke, etc).

C - trade for (somewhat younger) established MLB talent that maybe comes with a $ price tag attached, a lot less risk, and is extendable thru the next competitive window. We don't have to build our next contender entirely out of players born after 2002. They just need to not be pushing late 30's/40 before 2028 and be healthy and take care of themselves.

I certainly agree with your premise of “C” being preferable over “A” & “ B”.
And Bloom was probably thinking the same thing.
However.......getting “C” for Gray/Arenado/WC was probably unlikely to happen.

I'd have loved "C" too.

BUT

We all have to understand BDWJR didn't want to bring back salary, these were dumps and he was willing to eat some of their contracts so C. Bloom could acquire prospects to re-fill MO's dilapidated minor league system.

Hey Rock....tough for me to grade how well Bloom did in the Arenado/Gray/WC trades:
All vets with no trade clauses and high $$ contracts.
Everyone pretty much agreed they had to be moved.
No inside knowledge of WHAT Bloom was in fact offered so unable to critique his final decisions.
A number of intriguing pitchers brought back and a few have a fairly high upside.
Fingers crossed!