Cusecards wrote: ↑04 Jan 2026 12:53 pm
Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???
getting rid of 2 of our top 3 players - we will be lucky to win 70 games next year and many of us will not be going to the park anymore at least until the tank job is over!
Baffles me that fans can't grasp the difference between tanking and a rebuild.
-In "tanking," you get rid of ALL players possible that hold any value and/or are due an upcoming payday. Even if they're young and could potentially be part of the future in 3-5 years, you get rid of anyone you can who's above replacement level because the goal is to lose as many games as possible to attain the highest possible draft picks for as long as the "tanking" lasts.
-In a rebuild, you trade all players of value who are too old or, for whatever reason, not part of the team's 3-5 year future plan in return for draft picks, prospects, or young MLB-ready players that are part of the team's future and/or 3-5 year plan. Unlike tanking, rebuilding teams ARE trying to win and compete as quickly as they can, but are willing to endure a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful run in the near future.
To sum up:
-Tanking: blows up the team with the intention of finishing dead last if possible in order to acquire as many top draft picks for as long as the tanking lasts
-Rebuilding: trading away players not part of the future to acquire assets who are part of the future. Willing to accept a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful franchise in the near future. While top draft picks are great if the team gets them, the team is still trying to win as quickly as they can.
Who in this starting lineup makes any money??
2026 starting lineup
C Herrera
1b Burly
2b JJ
SS Winn
3b Gorman
LF Noot
CF Scott
RF Walker
DH Who Knows
May
Libby
McGreevy
Fitts
Pallente
None of them make a substantial salary and are all young enough to be part of the 3-5 year future plan. Which is precisely why they're all part of the rebuild.
We’ve been “Rebuilding” a couple years now, at least….with Burly, WInn, Gorman, Noot, Scott, Walker. How’s it going??
They haven’t been rebuilding. If they were rebuilding they wouldn’t have signed Contreras or signed gray in 2024 and they wouldn’t have traded edman for fedde then kept fedde and helsley until the deadline. If they were rebuilding they wouldn’t have stripped the minor league development system
The point is if these Yutes were excelling…..we wouldn’t be REBUILDING right now…..we would be excelling…..
Gorman, Noot, Scott, Walker are nothing…..so what are we doing with them besides biding time and cheap labor. To be a good team those positions will need to be replaced with actual talent. Do you see replacements??
lol yea when you destroy your development system so you can sign mid tier free agents that don’t help the team win anything and because your development system sucks your yutes aren’t prepared for the big leagues yea you had better rebuild from top to bottom or you will never win anything again. You continuously slamming the products of
The destroyed and failed development system just reinforces how necessary the rebuild is
Cusecards wrote: ↑04 Jan 2026 12:53 pm
Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???
getting rid of 2 of our top 3 players - we will be lucky to win 70 games next year and many of us will not be going to the park anymore at least until the tank job is over!
Baffles me that fans can't grasp the difference between tanking and a rebuild.
-In "tanking," you get rid of ALL players possible that hold any value and/or are due an upcoming payday. Even if they're young and could potentially be part of the future in 3-5 years, you get rid of anyone you can who's above replacement level because the goal is to lose as many games as possible to attain the highest possible draft picks for as long as the "tanking" lasts.
-In a rebuild, you trade all players of value who are too old or, for whatever reason, not part of the team's 3-5 year future plan in return for draft picks, prospects, or young MLB-ready players that are part of the team's future and/or 3-5 year plan. Unlike tanking, rebuilding teams ARE trying to win and compete as quickly as they can, but are willing to endure a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful run in the near future.
To sum up:
-Tanking: blows up the team with the intention of finishing dead last if possible in order to acquire as many top draft picks for as long as the tanking lasts
-Rebuilding: trading away players not part of the future to acquire assets who are part of the future. Willing to accept a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful franchise in the near future. While top draft picks are great if the team gets them, the team is still trying to win as quickly as they can.
Who in this starting lineup makes any money??
2026 starting lineup
C Herrera
1b Burly
2b JJ
SS Winn
3b Gorman
LF Noot
CF Scott
RF Walker
DH Who Knows
May
Libby
McGreevy
Fitts
Pallente
None of them make a substantial salary and are all young enough to be part of the 3-5 year future plan. Which is precisely why they're all part of the rebuild.
We’ve been “Rebuilding” a couple years now, at least….with Burly, WInn, Gorman, Noot, Scott, Walker. How’s it going??
They've been rebuilding on the fly or to take a term from Blues GM Armstrong, it's been more of a "retool."
And the "retool" failed miserably, for a multitude of reasons. Which is why I'm glad they've decided to stop prolonging the torture and embrace the full rebuild process.
Can we all at least come to an agreement that the Cards had an imbecile or at least someone who was being told what to do by ownership acting as an imbecile that got the org in this position many of you keep referring to……”this is what we’ve been doing for years, adding vets, doing that and it’s failed”……WELL ITS FAILED BECAUSE THEY MADE THE WRONG PLAYERS CHOICES. It isn’t because the spent $$$ if was because they spent it on the
WRONG players….its because they waste years of MLB starter time these prospect who become nothing. It’s not because finding the right FA and right trade talent doesn’t work. It’s because the Cardinals/MO didn’t find the right FA, the correct prospects to keep, the correct trade return. But now all you think that going this route just can’t work going forward……BECAUSE IDIOTS HAVE SCREWED THIS PROCESS UP FOR 5-6 YRS
Cusecards wrote: ↑04 Jan 2026 12:53 pm
Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???
2026 starting lineup
C Herrera
1b Burly
2b JJ
SS Winn
3b Gorman
LF Noot
CF Scott
RF Walker
DH Who Knows
May
Libby
McGreevy
Fitts
Pallente
Could certainly happen.
My only guesses/changes would be:
Herrera not Catching. Too many better alternatives in the pipeline. I would use 2026 to acclimate him to a new position. LF if not DH?
Still not convinced Donovan won’t be back.
Of course Noot is questionable for Opening Day.
And if Dobbins is ready for ST as some have predicted he slots in ahead of Pallante.
Cusecards wrote: ↑04 Jan 2026 12:53 pm
Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???
2026 starting lineup
C Herrera
1b Burly
2b JJ
SS Winn
3b Gorman
LF Noot
CF Scott
RF Walker
DH Who Knows
May
Libby
McGreevy
Fitts
Pallente
Could certainly happen.
My only guesses/changes would be:
Herrera not Catching. Too many better alternatives in the pipeline. I would use 2026 to acclimate him to a new position. LF if not DH?
Still not convinced Donovan won’t be back.
Of course Noot is questionable for Opening Day.
And if Dobbins is ready for ST as some have predicted he slots in ahead of Pallante.
What kind of a lineup would you roll out there that would be more “tanky” than this??? Hard to do. This might be a 80-90 mil roster. How can it be argued the St. Louis Cardinals aren’t tanking when you go from 180mil to 80mil?
Cusecards wrote: ↑04 Jan 2026 12:53 pm
Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???
getting rid of 2 of our top 3 players - we will be lucky to win 70 games next year and many of us will not be going to the park anymore at least until the tank job is over!
Baffles me that fans can't grasp the difference between tanking and a rebuild.
-In "tanking," you get rid of ALL players possible that hold any value and/or are due an upcoming payday. Even if they're young and could potentially be part of the future in 3-5 years, you get rid of anyone you can who's above replacement level because the goal is to lose as many games as possible to attain the highest possible draft picks for as long as the "tanking" lasts.
-In a rebuild, you trade all players of value who are too old or, for whatever reason, not part of the team's 3-5 year future plan in return for draft picks, prospects, or young MLB-ready players that are part of the team's future and/or 3-5 year plan. Unlike tanking, rebuilding teams ARE trying to win and compete as quickly as they can, but are willing to endure a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful run in the near future.
To sum up:
-Tanking: blows up the team with the intention of finishing dead last if possible in order to acquire as many top draft picks for as long as the tanking lasts
-Rebuilding: trading away players not part of the future to acquire assets who are part of the future. Willing to accept a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful franchise in the near future. While top draft picks are great if the team gets them, the team is still trying to win as quickly as they can.
Who in this starting lineup makes any money??
2026 starting lineup
C Herrera
1b Burly
2b JJ
SS Winn
3b Gorman
LF Noot
CF Scott
RF Walker
DH Who Knows
May
Libby
McGreevy
Fitts
Pallente
None of them make a substantial salary and are all young enough to be part of the 3-5 year future plan. Which is precisely why they're all part of the rebuild.
We’ve been “Rebuilding” a couple years now, at least….with Burly, WInn, Gorman, Noot, Scott, Walker. How’s it going??
They've been rebuilding on the fly or to take a term from Blues GM Armstrong, it's been more of a "retool."
And the "retool" failed miserably, for a multitude of reasons. Which is why I'm glad they've decided to stop prolonging the torture and embrace the full rebuild process.
Can we all at least come to an agreement that the Cards had an imbecile or at least someone who was being told what to do by ownership acting as an imbecile that got the org in this position many of you keep referring to……”this is what we’ve been doing for years, adding vets, doing that and it’s failed”……WELL ITS FAILED BECAUSE THEY MADE THE WRONG PLAYERS CHOICES. It isn’t because the spent $$$ if was because they spent it on the
WRONG players….its because they waste years of MLB starter time these prospect who become nothing. It’s not because finding the right FA and right trade talent doesn’t work. It’s because the Cardinals/MO didn’t find the right FA, the correct prospects to keep, the correct trade return. But now all you think that going this route just can’t work going forward……BECAUSE IDIOTS HAVE SCREWED THIS PROCESS UP FOR 5-6 YRS
Well the cardinals can’t and won’t be able to spend their way out of the mess mo got them into. Mo was awful no debate there and Dewitt was an idiot for keeping him around as long as it did but theirs is no way the cardinals can fix this team by spending. The only way to fix it is to be able to produce players that actually contribute then spend money to augment them with free agents. You don’t like the rebuild I knew you wouldn’t you wouldn’t like anything the cardinals did anyway so no surprise there. Cardinals signed gray and Contreras you complained cardinals traded gray and Contreras you complained
Cusecards wrote: ↑04 Jan 2026 12:53 pm
Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???
2026 starting lineup
C Herrera
1b Burly
2b JJ
SS Winn
3b Gorman
LF Noot
CF Scott
RF Walker
DH Who Knows
May
Libby
McGreevy
Fitts
Pallente
Could certainly happen.
My only guesses/changes would be:
Herrera not Catching. Too many better alternatives in the pipeline. I would use 2026 to acclimate him to a new position. LF if not DH?
Still not convinced Donovan won’t be back.
Of course Noot is questionable for Opening Day.
And if Dobbins is ready for ST as some have predicted he slots in ahead of Pallante.
What kind of a lineup would you roll out there that would be more “tanky” than this??? Hard to do. This might be a 80-90 mil roster. How can it be argued the St. Louis Cardinals aren’t tanking when you go from 180mil to 80mil?
SMH
Call it whatever name/label you want!
Reboot
Rebuild
Tanking
Gutting
Wallowing
Self Destruction
Apathy
??????????
LOL....I actually responded to you because I was fooled into thinking that you wanted to have a sincere DISCUSSION about the current roster makeup.
But instead.....you circled back to your USUAL pattern of wanting to whine, cry , and wallow in misery!
Well....I won’t make that mistake again!
Thankfully there are plenty of other great posters here who DON’T want to whine, cry, and wallow in misery.
Myself:
I’m optimistic about what Bloom has started to do and looking forward to the season to see how it plays out.
If you don’t have the “stomach” for team sports I suggest taking up knitting, stamp collecting, or some other hobby where you have more “control” over the outcome!
Cusecards wrote: ↑04 Jan 2026 12:53 pm
Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???
getting rid of 2 of our top 3 players - we will be lucky to win 70 games next year and many of us will not be going to the park anymore at least until the tank job is over!
Baffles me that fans can't grasp the difference between tanking and a rebuild.
-In "tanking," you get rid of ALL players possible that hold any value and/or are due an upcoming payday. Even if they're young and could potentially be part of the future in 3-5 years, you get rid of anyone you can who's above replacement level because the goal is to lose as many games as possible to attain the highest possible draft picks for as long as the "tanking" lasts.
-In a rebuild, you trade all players of value who are too old or, for whatever reason, not part of the team's 3-5 year future plan in return for draft picks, prospects, or young MLB-ready players that are part of the team's future and/or 3-5 year plan. Unlike tanking, rebuilding teams ARE trying to win and compete as quickly as they can, but are willing to endure a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful run in the near future.
To sum up:
-Tanking: blows up the team with the intention of finishing dead last if possible in order to acquire as many top draft picks for as long as the tanking lasts
-Rebuilding: trading away players not part of the future to acquire assets who are part of the future. Willing to accept a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful franchise in the near future. While top draft picks are great if the team gets them, the team is still trying to win as quickly as they can.
Who in this starting lineup makes any money??
2026 starting lineup
C Herrera
1b Burly
2b JJ
SS Winn
3b Gorman
LF Noot
CF Scott
RF Walker
DH Who Knows
May
Libby
McGreevy
Fitts
Pallente
None of them make a substantial salary and are all young enough to be part of the 3-5 year future plan. Which is precisely why they're all part of the rebuild.
We’ve been “Rebuilding” a couple years now, at least….with Burly, WInn, Gorman, Noot, Scott, Walker. How’s it going??
They've been rebuilding on the fly or to take a term from Blues GM Armstrong, it's been more of a "retool."
And the "retool" failed miserably, for a multitude of reasons. Which is why I'm glad they've decided to stop prolonging the torture and embrace the full rebuild process.
Can we all at least come to an agreement that the Cards had an imbecile or at least someone who was being told what to do by ownership acting as an imbecile that got the org in this position many of you keep referring to……”this is what we’ve been doing for years, adding vets, doing that and it’s failed”……WELL ITS FAILED BECAUSE THEY MADE THE WRONG PLAYERS CHOICES. It isn’t because the spent $$$ if was because they spent it on the
WRONG players….its because they waste years of MLB starter time these prospect who become nothing. It’s not because finding the right FA and right trade talent doesn’t work. It’s because the Cardinals/MO didn’t find the right FA, the correct prospects to keep, the correct trade return. But now all you think that going this route just can’t work going forward……BECAUSE IDIOTS HAVE SCREWED THIS PROCESS UP FOR 5-6 YRS
Well the cardinals can’t and won’t be able to spend their way out of the mess mo got them into. Mo was awful no debate there and Dewitt was an idiot for keeping him around as long as it did but theirs is no way the cardinals can fix this team by spending. The only way to fix it is to be able to produce players that actually contribute then spend money to augment them with free agents. You don’t like the rebuild I knew you wouldn’t you wouldn’t like anything the cardinals did anyway so no surprise there. Cardinals signed gray and Contreras you complained cardinals traded gray and Contreras you complained
Oz
I suggested he take up knitting, stamp or coin collecting.
Don’t think he has the stomach for team sports???
Cusecards wrote: ↑04 Jan 2026 12:53 pm
Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???
getting rid of 2 of our top 3 players - we will be lucky to win 70 games next year and many of us will not be going to the park anymore at least until the tank job is over!
Baffles me that fans can't grasp the difference between tanking and a rebuild.
-In "tanking," you get rid of ALL players possible that hold any value and/or are due an upcoming payday. Even if they're young and could potentially be part of the future in 3-5 years, you get rid of anyone you can who's above replacement level because the goal is to lose as many games as possible to attain the highest possible draft picks for as long as the "tanking" lasts.
-In a rebuild, you trade all players of value who are too old or, for whatever reason, not part of the team's 3-5 year future plan in return for draft picks, prospects, or young MLB-ready players that are part of the team's future and/or 3-5 year plan. Unlike tanking, rebuilding teams ARE trying to win and compete as quickly as they can, but are willing to endure a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful run in the near future.
To sum up:
-Tanking: blows up the team with the intention of finishing dead last if possible in order to acquire as many top draft picks for as long as the tanking lasts
-Rebuilding: trading away players not part of the future to acquire assets who are part of the future. Willing to accept a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful franchise in the near future. While top draft picks are great if the team gets them, the team is still trying to win as quickly as they can.
Who in this starting lineup makes any money??
2026 starting lineup
C Herrera
1b Burly
2b JJ
SS Winn
3b Gorman
LF Noot
CF Scott
RF Walker
DH Who Knows
May
Libby
McGreevy
Fitts
Pallente
None of them make a substantial salary and are all young enough to be part of the 3-5 year future plan. Which is precisely why they're all part of the rebuild.
We’ve been “Rebuilding” a couple years now, at least….with Burly, WInn, Gorman, Noot, Scott, Walker. How’s it going??
They've been rebuilding on the fly or to take a term from Blues GM Armstrong, it's been more of a "retool."
And the "retool" failed miserably, for a multitude of reasons. Which is why I'm glad they've decided to stop prolonging the torture and embrace the full rebuild process.
Can we all at least come to an agreement that the Cards had an imbecile or at least someone who was being told what to do by ownership acting as an imbecile that got the org in this position many of you keep referring to……”this is what we’ve been doing for years, adding vets, doing that and it’s failed”……WELL ITS FAILED BECAUSE THEY MADE THE WRONG PLAYERS CHOICES. It isn’t because the spent $$$ if was because they spent it on the
WRONG players….its because they waste years of MLB starter time these prospect who become nothing. It’s not because finding the right FA and right trade talent doesn’t work. It’s because the Cardinals/MO didn’t find the right FA, the correct prospects to keep, the correct trade return. But now all you think that going this route just can’t work going forward……BECAUSE IDIOTS HAVE SCREWED THIS PROCESS UP FOR 5-6 YRS
Well the cardinals can’t and won’t be able to spend their way out of the mess mo got them into. Mo was awful no debate there and Dewitt was an idiot for keeping him around as long as it did but theirs is no way the cardinals can fix this team by spending. The only way to fix it is to be able to produce players that actually contribute then spend money to augment them with free agents. You don’t like the rebuild I knew you wouldn’t you wouldn’t like anything the cardinals did anyway so no surprise there. Cardinals signed gray and Contreras you complained cardinals traded gray and Contreras you complained
Oz
I suggested he take up knitting, stamp or coin collecting.
Don’t think he has the stomach for team sports???
lol no kidding or just play video game baseball where he can be GM and trade burly and a catching prospect for tatis and spend unlimited money on every player he wants to of course he would probably still complain about the moves he makes
Cusecards wrote: ↑04 Jan 2026 12:53 pm
Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???
getting rid of 2 of our top 3 players - we will be lucky to win 70 games next year and many of us will not be going to the park anymore at least until the tank job is over!
Baffles me that fans can't grasp the difference between tanking and a rebuild.
-In "tanking," you get rid of ALL players possible that hold any value and/or are due an upcoming payday. Even if they're young and could potentially be part of the future in 3-5 years, you get rid of anyone you can who's above replacement level because the goal is to lose as many games as possible to attain the highest possible draft picks for as long as the "tanking" lasts.
-In a rebuild, you trade all players of value who are too old or, for whatever reason, not part of the team's 3-5 year future plan in return for draft picks, prospects, or young MLB-ready players that are part of the team's future and/or 3-5 year plan. Unlike tanking, rebuilding teams ARE trying to win and compete as quickly as they can, but are willing to endure a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful run in the near future.
To sum up:
-Tanking: blows up the team with the intention of finishing dead last if possible in order to acquire as many top draft picks for as long as the tanking lasts
-Rebuilding: trading away players not part of the future to acquire assets who are part of the future. Willing to accept a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful franchise in the near future. While top draft picks are great if the team gets them, the team is still trying to win as quickly as they can.
Who in this starting lineup makes any money??
2026 starting lineup
C Herrera
1b Burly
2b JJ
SS Winn
3b Gorman
LF Noot
CF Scott
RF Walker
DH Who Knows
May
Libby
McGreevy
Fitts
Pallente
None of them make a substantial salary and are all young enough to be part of the 3-5 year future plan. Which is precisely why they're all part of the rebuild.
We’ve been “Rebuilding” a couple years now, at least….with Burly, WInn, Gorman, Noot, Scott, Walker. How’s it going??
They've been rebuilding on the fly or to take a term from Blues GM Armstrong, it's been more of a "retool."
And the "retool" failed miserably, for a multitude of reasons. Which is why I'm glad they've decided to stop prolonging the torture and embrace the full rebuild process.
Can we all at least come to an agreement that the Cards had an imbecile or at least someone who was being told what to do by ownership acting as an imbecile that got the org in this position many of you keep referring to……”this is what we’ve been doing for years, adding vets, doing that and it’s failed”……WELL ITS FAILED BECAUSE THEY MADE THE WRONG PLAYERS CHOICES. It isn’t because the spent $$$ if was because they spent it on the
WRONG players….its because they waste years of MLB starter time these prospect who become nothing. It’s not because finding the right FA and right trade talent doesn’t work. It’s because the Cardinals/MO didn’t find the right FA, the correct prospects to keep, the correct trade return. But now all you think that going this route just can’t work going forward……BECAUSE IDIOTS HAVE SCREWED THIS PROCESS UP FOR 5-6 YRS
Well the cardinals can’t and won’t be able to spend their way out of the mess mo got them into. Mo was awful no debate there and Dewitt was an idiot for keeping him around as long as it did but theirs is no way the cardinals can fix this team by spending. The only way to fix it is to be able to produce players that actually contribute then spend money to augment them with free agents. You don’t like the rebuild I knew you wouldn’t you wouldn’t like anything the cardinals did anyway so no surprise there. Cardinals signed gray and Contreras you complained cardinals traded gray and Contreras you complained
Oz
I suggested he take up knitting, stamp or coin collecting.
Don’t think he has the stomach for team sports???
lol no kidding or just play video game baseball where he can be GM and trade burly and a catching prospect for tatis and spend unlimited money on every player he wants to of course he would probably still complain about the moves he makes
+1000
Either that or take it out on the Wife, Kids, or Pets!
CCard wrote: ↑04 Jan 2026 12:42 pm
I mean that's gotta be enough to at least up the payroll 30 million? Right? A competitive talent with actual top tier talent on the field draws close to 3 million. You got to figure at least a million or so if the team is pretty bad. That's probably a drop of nearly 2 million tickets per year. How much is a ticket now a days?
Here are prices for the May 19 , 2023 game against the Los Angeles Dodgers: Lowest price: $22 before fees for Section 431, Row 3 Pricey side: $1,026 before fees for Section 1, Row K Dugout box: $103 before fees for Section 132, Row C Fans looking for less expensive options can also wait for promotional periods. Cardinals tickets have been sold for as little as $6 this season.
So, if we just take the $22 tickets that's what about $40 million? Give or take? That's just ticket sales and that's the lowest except for promotional sales.
So, how much money are they throwing in the wind with their tanking? Why would they intentionally throw away money?
Less than when they were trying to win the past couple of seasons
The biggest loss is not in annual net income. It will be in wealth/value of the franschise, which will take a large haircut vs not growing at high rates all decade like it did in previous decades with a full Busch stadium. This could cost the family 9 or even 10 figures depending on the timing of when they sell, or cost them an opportunity to sell althother.
Company valuations are partly/largely based on top line growth rates. A negative top line change doesn't not command a premium multiple.
Unless they are banking on a work stoppage that ends in a hard cap. They'd lose valuation just like every team, but if they come through with no long term contracts/dead cap money, and they get the TV deal stabilized, they could be prepped for one hell of a relaunch. All depends on what happens when the CBA expires.
Cusecards wrote: ↑04 Jan 2026 12:53 pm
Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???
getting rid of 2 of our top 3 players - we will be lucky to win 70 games next year and many of us will not be going to the park anymore at least until the tank job is over!
Baffles me that fans can't grasp the difference between tanking and a rebuild.
-In "tanking," you get rid of ALL players possible that hold any value and/or are due an upcoming payday. Even if they're young and could potentially be part of the future in 3-5 years, you get rid of anyone you can who's above replacement level because the goal is to lose as many games as possible to attain the highest possible draft picks for as long as the "tanking" lasts.
-In a rebuild, you trade all players of value who are too old or, for whatever reason, not part of the team's 3-5 year future plan in return for draft picks, prospects, or young MLB-ready players that are part of the team's future and/or 3-5 year plan. Unlike tanking, rebuilding teams ARE trying to win and compete as quickly as they can, but are willing to endure a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful run in the near future.
To sum up:
-Tanking: blows up the team with the intention of finishing dead last if possible in order to acquire as many top draft picks for as long as the tanking lasts
-Rebuilding: trading away players not part of the future to acquire assets who are part of the future. Willing to accept a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful franchise in the near future. While top draft picks are great if the team gets them, the team is still trying to win as quickly as they can.
Not much difference. The results for 3-5 years or so are basically the same. I care less about intentions.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑04 Jan 2026 13:49 pm
1)
They're NOT tanking
2)
The Cardinals had a $6.75 EBITDA in 2025
3)
The franchise is valued at $2.55B and hasn't lost any value
4)
This is a long-term strategic overhaul per C. Bloom
5)
IMO the 2026 team is going to be better than the 2025 team, perhaps by as much as +5 - 7 games (83-85 wins which is not tanking)
I highly doubt #3 is accurate under an intensive analysis in realtime, but even if so, the value has missed an opportunity to appreciate over the past several years like it has across previous decades. That is a loss in opportunity cost.
Cusecards wrote: ↑04 Jan 2026 12:53 pm
Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???
getting rid of 2 of our top 3 players - we will be lucky to win 70 games next year and many of us will not be going to the park anymore at least until the tank job is over!
Baffles me that fans can't grasp the difference between tanking and a rebuild.
-In "tanking," you get rid of ALL players possible that hold any value and/or are due an upcoming payday. Even if they're young and could potentially be part of the future in 3-5 years, you get rid of anyone you can who's above replacement level because the goal is to lose as many games as possible to attain the highest possible draft picks for as long as the "tanking" lasts.
-In a rebuild, you trade all players of value who are too old or, for whatever reason, not part of the team's 3-5 year future plan in return for draft picks, prospects, or young MLB-ready players that are part of the team's future and/or 3-5 year plan. Unlike tanking, rebuilding teams ARE trying to win and compete as quickly as they can, but are willing to endure a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful run in the near future.
To sum up:
-Tanking: blows up the team with the intention of finishing dead last if possible in order to acquire as many top draft picks for as long as the tanking lasts
-Rebuilding: trading away players not part of the future to acquire assets who are part of the future. Willing to accept a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful franchise in the near future. While top draft picks are great if the team gets them, the team is still trying to win as quickly as they can.
Who in this starting lineup makes any money??
2026 starting lineup
C Herrera
1b Burly
2b JJ
SS Winn
3b Gorman
LF Noot
CF Scott
RF Walker
DH Who Knows
May
Libby
McGreevy
Fitts
Pallente
None of them make a substantial salary and are all young enough to be part of the 3-5 year future plan. Which is precisely why they're all part of the rebuild.
We’ve been “Rebuilding” a couple years now, at least….with Burly, WInn, Gorman, Noot, Scott, Walker. How’s it going??
They've been rebuilding on the fly or to take a term from Blues GM Armstrong, it's been more of a "retool."
And the "retool" failed miserably, for a multitude of reasons. Which is why I'm glad they've decided to stop prolonging the torture and embrace the full rebuild process.
Can we all at least come to an agreement that the Cards had an imbecile or at least someone who was being told what to do by ownership acting as an imbecile that got the org in this position many of you keep referring to……”this is what we’ve been doing for years, adding vets, doing that and it’s failed”……WELL ITS FAILED BECAUSE THEY MADE THE WRONG PLAYERS CHOICES. It isn’t because the spent $$$ if was because they spent it on the
WRONG players….its because they waste years of MLB starter time these prospect who become nothing. It’s not because finding the right FA and right trade talent doesn’t work. It’s because the Cardinals/MO didn’t find the right FA, the correct prospects to keep, the correct trade return. But now all you think that going this route just can’t work going forward……BECAUSE IDIOTS HAVE SCREWED THIS PROCESS UP FOR 5-6 YRS
Well the cardinals can’t and won’t be able to spend their way out of the mess mo got them into. Mo was awful no debate there and Dewitt was an idiot for keeping him around as long as it did but theirs is no way the cardinals can fix this team by spending. The only way to fix it is to be able to produce players that actually contribute then spend money to augment them with free agents. You don’t like the rebuild I knew you wouldn’t you wouldn’t like anything the cardinals did anyway so no surprise there. Cardinals signed gray and Contreras you complained cardinals traded gray and Contreras you complained
Oz
I suggested he take up knitting, stamp or coin collecting.
Don’t think he has the stomach for team sports???
lol no kidding or just play video game baseball where he can be GM and trade burly and a catching prospect for tatis and spend unlimited money on every player he wants to of course he would probably still complain about the moves he makes
All your playful banter back and forth is highly entertaining…..but other than repeating the Cards party line…..why are you so cocksure that this exact plan you think is being implemented will transform the org into the promise land? Faith, Hope??
Cusecards wrote: ↑04 Jan 2026 12:53 pm
Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???
getting rid of 2 of our top 3 players - we will be lucky to win 70 games next year and many of us will not be going to the park anymore at least until the tank job is over!
Baffles me that fans can't grasp the difference between tanking and a rebuild.
-In "tanking," you get rid of ALL players possible that hold any value and/or are due an upcoming payday. Even if they're young and could potentially be part of the future in 3-5 years, you get rid of anyone you can who's above replacement level because the goal is to lose as many games as possible to attain the highest possible draft picks for as long as the "tanking" lasts.
-In a rebuild, you trade all players of value who are too old or, for whatever reason, not part of the team's 3-5 year future plan in return for draft picks, prospects, or young MLB-ready players that are part of the team's future and/or 3-5 year plan. Unlike tanking, rebuilding teams ARE trying to win and compete as quickly as they can, but are willing to endure a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful run in the near future.
To sum up:
-Tanking: blows up the team with the intention of finishing dead last if possible in order to acquire as many top draft picks for as long as the tanking lasts
-Rebuilding: trading away players not part of the future to acquire assets who are part of the future. Willing to accept a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful franchise in the near future. While top draft picks are great if the team gets them, the team is still trying to win as quickly as they can.
Who in this starting lineup makes any money??
2026 starting lineup
C Herrera
1b Burly
2b JJ
SS Winn
3b Gorman
LF Noot
CF Scott
RF Walker
DH Who Knows
May
Libby
McGreevy
Fitts
Pallente
None of them make a substantial salary and are all young enough to be part of the 3-5 year future plan. Which is precisely why they're all part of the rebuild.
We’ve been “Rebuilding” a couple years now, at least….with Burly, WInn, Gorman, Noot, Scott, Walker. How’s it going??
They've been rebuilding on the fly or to take a term from Blues GM Armstrong, it's been more of a "retool."
And the "retool" failed miserably, for a multitude of reasons. Which is why I'm glad they've decided to stop prolonging the torture and embrace the full rebuild process.
Can we all at least come to an agreement that the Cards had an imbecile or at least someone who was being told what to do by ownership acting as an imbecile that got the org in this position many of you keep referring to……”this is what we’ve been doing for years, adding vets, doing that and it’s failed”……WELL ITS FAILED BECAUSE THEY MADE THE WRONG PLAYERS CHOICES. It isn’t because the spent $$$ if was because they spent it on the
WRONG players….its because they waste years of MLB starter time these prospect who become nothing. It’s not because finding the right FA and right trade talent doesn’t work. It’s because the Cardinals/MO didn’t find the right FA, the correct prospects to keep, the correct trade return. But now all you think that going this route just can’t work going forward……BECAUSE IDIOTS HAVE SCREWED THIS PROCESS UP FOR 5-6 YRS
Well the cardinals can’t and won’t be able to spend their way out of the mess mo got them into. Mo was awful no debate there and Dewitt was an idiot for keeping him around as long as it did but theirs is no way the cardinals can fix this team by spending. The only way to fix it is to be able to produce players that actually contribute then spend money to augment them with free agents. You don’t like the rebuild I knew you wouldn’t you wouldn’t like anything the cardinals did anyway so no surprise there. Cardinals signed gray and Contreras you complained cardinals traded gray and Contreras you complained
Oz
I suggested he take up knitting, stamp or coin collecting.
Don’t think he has the stomach for team sports???
lol no kidding or just play video game baseball where he can be GM and trade burly and a catching prospect for tatis and spend unlimited money on every player he wants to of course he would probably still complain about the moves he makes
All your playful banter back and forth is highly entertaining…..but other than repeating the Cards party line…..why are you so cocksure that this exact plan you think is being implemented will transform the org into the promise land? Faith, Hope??
Because the plan of destroying the develop system in order to sign mediocre and mid tier free agents has failed spectacularly when what you’re doing fails over and over you have to try something else and I get it you think fixing the farm system and the development system so it produces productive players is a bad thing I don’t. And why do I think it will work? Because it’s a rational plan it’s a smart plan it’s a clear direction which they never had before.
CCard wrote: ↑04 Jan 2026 12:42 pm
I mean that's gotta be enough to at least up the payroll 30 million? Right? A competitive talent with actual top tier talent on the field draws close to 3 million. You got to figure at least a million or so if the team is pretty bad. That's probably a drop of nearly 2 million tickets per year. How much is a ticket now a days?
Here are prices for the May 19 , 2023 game against the Los Angeles Dodgers: Lowest price: $22 before fees for Section 431, Row 3 Pricey side: $1,026 before fees for Section 1, Row K Dugout box: $103 before fees for Section 132, Row C Fans looking for less expensive options can also wait for promotional periods. Cardinals tickets have been sold for as little as $6 this season.
So, if we just take the $22 tickets that's what about $40 million? Give or take? That's just ticket sales and that's the lowest except for promotional sales.
So, how much money are they throwing in the wind with their tanking? Why would they intentionally throw away money?
I have a question. How many clowns posts will trolls make before spring training starts?
CCard wrote: ↑04 Jan 2026 12:42 pm
I mean that's gotta be enough to at least up the payroll 30 million? Right? A competitive talent with actual top tier talent on the field draws close to 3 million. You got to figure at least a million or so if the team is pretty bad. That's probably a drop of nearly 2 million tickets per year. How much is a ticket now a days?
Here are prices for the May 19 , 2023 game against the Los Angeles Dodgers: Lowest price: $22 before fees for Section 431, Row 3 Pricey side: $1,026 before fees for Section 1, Row K Dugout box: $103 before fees for Section 132, Row C Fans looking for less expensive options can also wait for promotional periods. Cardinals tickets have been sold for as little as $6 this season.
So, if we just take the $22 tickets that's what about $40 million? Give or take? That's just ticket sales and that's the lowest except for promotional sales.
So, how much money are they throwing in the wind with their tanking? Why would they intentionally throw away money?
The Cardinals did have way more invested in payroll, even went out and got big time All Stars and studs like Goldy, Nado, Contreras, Gray etc. Did exactly what you proposed, you know what they got for it? Booed and boycotts.
Players get booed when the play poorly, don't you think? Boycotts? Wait until they see the boycott of a team that tanks. If not for Helsley blowing a gasket against the Phillies, who knows what they might have accomplished. But you conveniently ignore that.
