How much money will DeWitt and company lose with 3-5 years of tanking?

[CCard]

I mean that's gotta be enough to at least up the payroll 30 million? Right? A competitive talent with actual top tier talent on the field draws close to 3 million. You got to figure at least a million or so if the team is pretty bad. That's probably a drop of nearly 2 million tickets per year. How much is a ticket now a days?
Here are prices for the May 19 , 2023 game against the Los Angeles Dodgers: Lowest price: $22 before fees for Section 431, Row 3 Pricey side: $1,026 before fees for Section 1, Row K Dugout box: $103 before fees for Section 132, Row C Fans looking for less expensive options can also wait for promotional periods. Cardinals tickets have been sold for as little as $6 this season.

So, if we just take the $22 tickets that's what about $40 million? Give or take? That's just ticket sales and that's the lowest except for promotional sales.

So, how much money are they throwing in the wind with their tanking? Why would they intentionally throw away money?

[Cusecards]

Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???

[45s]

I mean that's gotta be enough to at least up the payroll 30 million? Right? A competitive talent with actual top tier talent on the field draws close to 3 million. You got to figure at least a million or so if the team is pretty bad. That's probably a drop of nearly 2 million tickets per year. How much is a ticket now a days?
Here are prices for the May 19 , 2023 game against the Los Angeles Dodgers: Lowest price: $22 before fees for Section 431, Row 3 Pricey side: $1,026 before fees for Section 1, Row K Dugout box: $103 before fees for Section 132, Row C Fans looking for less expensive options can also wait for promotional periods. Cardinals tickets have been sold for as little as $6 this season.

So, if we just take the $22 tickets that's what about $40 million? Give or take? That's just ticket sales and that's the lowest except for promotional sales.

So, how much money are they throwing in the wind with their tanking? Why would they intentionally throw away money?

Reducing long term debt…aka expensive contracts….to make the club more marketable

[WLTFE]

I'm in Section 148...we've seen at least a 20% drop in people renewing season tix in the last 3 seasons...of course, Mo-ran leaving and going back to his beautiful family will help...

[Ozziesfan41]

I mean that's gotta be enough to at least up the payroll 30 million? Right? A competitive talent with actual top tier talent on the field draws close to 3 million. You got to figure at least a million or so if the team is pretty bad. That's probably a drop of nearly 2 million tickets per year. How much is a ticket now a days?
Here are prices for the May 19 , 2023 game against the Los Angeles Dodgers: Lowest price: $22 before fees for Section 431, Row 3 Pricey side: $1,026 before fees for Section 1, Row K Dugout box: $103 before fees for Section 132, Row C Fans looking for less expensive options can also wait for promotional periods. Cardinals tickets have been sold for as little as $6 this season.

So, if we just take the $22 tickets that's what about $40 million? Give or take? That's just ticket sales and that's the lowest except for promotional sales.

So, how much money are they throwing in the wind with their tanking? Why would they intentionally throw away money?

Less than when they were trying to win the past couple of seasons

[Carp4Cy]

I mean that's gotta be enough to at least up the payroll 30 million? Right? A competitive talent with actual top tier talent on the field draws close to 3 million. You got to figure at least a million or so if the team is pretty bad. That's probably a drop of nearly 2 million tickets per year. How much is a ticket now a days?
Here are prices for the May 19 , 2023 game against the Los Angeles Dodgers: Lowest price: $22 before fees for Section 431, Row 3 Pricey side: $1,026 before fees for Section 1, Row K Dugout box: $103 before fees for Section 132, Row C Fans looking for less expensive options can also wait for promotional periods. Cardinals tickets have been sold for as little as $6 this season.

So, if we just take the $22 tickets that's what about $40 million? Give or take? That's just ticket sales and that's the lowest except for promotional sales.

So, how much money are they throwing in the wind with their tanking? Why would they intentionally throw away money?

Less than when they were trying to win the past couple of seasons

The biggest loss is not in annual net income. It will be in wealth/value of the franschise, which will take a large haircut vs not growing at high rates all decade like it did in previous decades with a full Busch stadium. This could cost the family 9 or even 10 figures depending on the timing of when they sell, or cost them an opportunity to sell althother.

Company valuations are partly/largely based on top line growth rates. A negative top line change doesn't not command a premium multiple.

[cardstatman]

Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???

To be fair, they did trade away their best pitcher and best hitter.

2023-2025 fWAR - Top 10 Cardinals players
8.2 Contreras - traded
7.5 Donovan - on the trade block
7.4 Gray - traded
6.8 Arenado - on the trade block
6.3 Winn
5.7 Nootbar - soon to be on the trade block
5.3 Mikolas - departed as a FA
5.1 Herrera
4.6 Goldschmidt - departed as a FA
4.2 Helsley - traded
3.2 Matz - traded

That seems to resemble intentionally performing poorly to achieve a strategic advantage...

[45s]

Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???

To be fair, they did trade away their best pitcher and best hitter.

2023-2025 fWAR - Top 10 Cardinals players
8.2 Contreras - traded
7.5 Donovan - on the trade block
7.4 Gray - traded
6.8 Arenado - on the trade block
6.3 Winn
5.7 Nootbar - soon to be on the trade block
5.3 Mikolas - departed as a FA
5.1 Herrera
4.6 Goldschmidt - departed as a FA
4.2 Helsley - traded
3.2 Matz - traded

That seems to resemble intentionally performing poorly to achieve a strategic advantage...

well, they have been performing poorly anyway

[rockondlouie]

1)
They're NOT tanking

2)
The Cardinals had a $6.75 EBITDA in 2025

3)
The franchise is valued at $2.55B and hasn't lost any value

4)
This is a long-term strategic overhaul per C. Bloom

5)
IMO the 2026 team is going to be better than the 2025 team, perhaps by as much as +5 - 7 games (83-85 wins which is not tanking)

[Carp4Cy]

That seems to resemble intentionally performing poorly to achieve a strategic advantage...

I certainly hope this incentive gets removed (the rest of the way) in the new CBA. Its bad for the sport, for competition, for building a winning tradition, and for the fans and the game.

We need a salary floor.

"Variance in NFL payrolls is relatively low due to the hard salary cap and revenue sharing, meaning most teams spend near the maximum, but significant differences exist in how teams structure spending (cash vs. cap), leading to major year-to-year variations, with top spenders exceeding the cap significantly through clever accounting (like converting salaries to bonuses) while others stay under, creating cash-over-cap disparities that correlate with team success over time.
Key Factors Influencing Payroll Variance
Salary Cap & Floor: A hard cap forces teams close to the maximum spending limit ($295.5M for 2025), but a spending floor (90% of cap over 5 years) ensures teams must spend, limiting large annual differences.
Cash vs. Cap: Teams use complex accounting (prorating bonuses, roster bonuses) to manipulate the cap, allowing some (like the Browns) to spend heavily in cash one year and defer costs, while others (like the Rams) strategically save cap space, creating large cash-over-cap gaps.
Market Size: Size of the market matters less in the NFL due to revenue sharing, but team spending strategies (aggressive vs. frugal) create notable variance"

[Carp4Cy]

1)
They're NOT tanking

2)
The Cardinals had a $6.75 EBITDA in 2025

3)
The franchise is valued at $2.55B and hasn't lost any value

4)
This is a long-term strategic overhaul per C. Bloom

5)
IMO the 2026 team is going to be better than the 2025 team, perhaps by as much as +5 - 7 games (83-85 wins which is not tanking)

I highly doubt #3 is accurate under an intensive analysis in realtime, but even if so, the value has missed an opportunity to appreciate over the past several years like it has across previous decades. That is a loss in opportunity cost.

[ScotchMIrish]

They won't lose money unless they are completely incompetent. Revenue sharing almost guarantees that.

[Clubmaker2]

40 mil and all the other jersey memorabilia concession and ballpark village visit reduction.... Bills savings may not be that big a number based on the reduced income multiple ways

[rockondlouie]

1)
They're NOT tanking

2)
The Cardinals had a $6.75 EBITDA in 2025

3)
The franchise is valued at $2.55B and hasn't lost any value

4)
This is a long-term strategic overhaul per C. Bloom

5)
IMO the 2026 team is going to be better than the 2025 team, perhaps by as much as +5 - 7 games (83-85 wins which is not tanking)

I highly doubt #3 is accurate under an intensive analysis in realtime, but even if so, the value has missed an opportunity to appreciate over the past several years like it has across previous decades. That is a loss in opportunity cost.

It's true carp:

https://www.forbes.com/teams/st-louis-cardinals/

[Cusecards]

Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???

To be fair, they did trade away their best pitcher and best hitter.

2023-2025 fWAR - Top 10 Cardinals players
8.2 Contreras - traded
7.5 Donovan - on the trade block
7.4 Gray - traded
6.8 Arenado - on the trade block
6.3 Winn
5.7 Nootbar - soon to be on the trade block
5.3 Mikolas - departed as a FA
5.1 Herrera
4.6 Goldschmidt - departed as a FA
4.2 Helsley - traded
3.2 Matz - traded

That seems to resemble intentionally performing poorly to achieve a strategic advantage...

Fair point
But....you also have to look at expected productivity return and weigh that vs what they are being paid.
I like Gray. But at 36 I would not pay him $65M for the next two years. Obviously it remains to be seen how Fitts and Clarke pan out. So while I understand some trepidation on the return I think more fans would be upset if they paid him that $65M and got nothing in return!
As for Contreras I was kind of him hoping they’d have kept him. He still swings a good RH bat which they need.
He also brings some fire and potential leadership!
And his contract is more palpable than Gray’s and he is younger.
I was however encouraged by the return they received(3 young arms) so of course only time will tell.

[dugoutrex]

Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???

getting rid of 2 of our top 3 players - we will be lucky to win 70 games next year and many of us will not be going to the park anymore at least until the tank job is over!