How much money will DeWitt and company lose with 3-5 years of tanking?

[Ike Hammett]

I mean that's gotta be enough to at least up the payroll 30 million? Right? A competitive talent with actual top tier talent on the field draws close to 3 million. You got to figure at least a million or so if the team is pretty bad. That's probably a drop of nearly 2 million tickets per year. How much is a ticket now a days?
Here are prices for the May 19 , 2023 game against the Los Angeles Dodgers: Lowest price: $22 before fees for Section 431, Row 3 Pricey side: $1,026 before fees for Section 1, Row K Dugout box: $103 before fees for Section 132, Row C Fans looking for less expensive options can also wait for promotional periods. Cardinals tickets have been sold for as little as $6 this season.

So, if we just take the $22 tickets that's what about $40 million? Give or take? That's just ticket sales and that's the lowest except for promotional sales.

So, how much money are they throwing in the wind with their tanking? Why would they intentionally throw away money?

The Cardinals did have way more invested in payroll, even went out and got big time All Stars and studs like Goldy, Nado, Contreras, Gray etc. Did exactly what you proposed, you know what they got for it? Booed and boycotts.

[desertrat23]

I mean that's gotta be enough to at least up the payroll 30 million? Right? A competitive talent with actual top tier talent on the field draws close to 3 million. You got to figure at least a million or so if the team is pretty bad. That's probably a drop of nearly 2 million tickets per year. How much is a ticket now a days?
Here are prices for the May 19 , 2023 game against the Los Angeles Dodgers: Lowest price: $22 before fees for Section 431, Row 3 Pricey side: $1,026 before fees for Section 1, Row K Dugout box: $103 before fees for Section 132, Row C Fans looking for less expensive options can also wait for promotional periods. Cardinals tickets have been sold for as little as $6 this season.

So, if we just take the $22 tickets that's what about $40 million? Give or take? That's just ticket sales and that's the lowest except for promotional sales.

So, how much money are they throwing in the wind with their tanking? Why would they intentionally throw away money?

The Cardinals did have way more invested in payroll, even went out and got big time All Stars and studs like Goldy, Nado, Contreras, Gray etc. Did exactly what you proposed, you know what they got for it? Booed and boycotts.

They got what they deserved. A winning team is more than four “studs.”

[Cusecards]

Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???

getting rid of 2 of our top 3 players - we will be lucky to win 70 games next year and many of us will not be going to the park anymore at least until the tank job is over!

Hey it’s an opinion forum and that’s what we’re here for.

[blackinkbiz]

Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???

getting rid of 2 of our top 3 players - we will be lucky to win 70 games next year and many of us will not be going to the park anymore at least until the tank job is over!

Baffles me that fans can't grasp the difference between tanking and a rebuild.

-In "tanking," you get rid of ALL players possible that hold any value and/or are due an upcoming payday. Even if they're young and could potentially be part of the future in 3-5 years, you get rid of anyone you can who's above replacement level because the goal is to lose as many games as possible to attain the highest possible draft picks for as long as the "tanking" lasts.

-In a rebuild, you trade all players of value who are too old or, for whatever reason, not part of the team's 3-5 year future plan in return for draft picks, prospects, or young MLB-ready players that are part of the team's future and/or 3-5 year plan. Unlike tanking, rebuilding teams ARE trying to win and compete as quickly as they can, but are willing to endure a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful run in the near future.

To sum up:

-Tanking: blows up the team with the intention of finishing dead last if possible in order to acquire as many top draft picks for as long as the tanking lasts

-Rebuilding: trading away players not part of the future to acquire assets who are part of the future. Willing to accept a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful franchise in the near future. While top draft picks are great if the team gets them, the team is still trying to win as quickly as they can.

[Goldfan]

Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???

2026 starting lineup
C Herrera
1b Burly
2b JJ
SS Winn
3b Gorman
LF Noot
CF Scott
RF Walker
DH Who Knows

May
Libby
McGreevy
Fitts
Pallente

[Goldfan]

Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???

getting rid of 2 of our top 3 players - we will be lucky to win 70 games next year and many of us will not be going to the park anymore at least until the tank job is over!

Baffles me that fans can't grasp the difference between tanking and a rebuild.

-In "tanking," you get rid of ALL players possible that hold any value and/or are due an upcoming payday. Even if they're young and could potentially be part of the future in 3-5 years, you get rid of anyone you can who's above replacement level because the goal is to lose as many games as possible to attain the highest possible draft picks for as long as the "tanking" lasts.

-In a rebuild, you trade all players of value who are too old or, for whatever reason, not part of the team's 3-5 year future plan in return for draft picks, prospects, or young MLB-ready players that are part of the team's future and/or 3-5 year plan. Unlike tanking, rebuilding teams ARE trying to win and compete as quickly as they can, but are willing to endure a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful run in the near future.

To sum up:

-Tanking: blows up the team with the intention of finishing dead last if possible in order to acquire as many top draft picks for as long as the tanking lasts

-Rebuilding: trading away players not part of the future to acquire assets who are part of the future. Willing to accept a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful franchise in the near future. While top draft picks are great if the team gets them, the team is still trying to win as quickly as they can.

Who in this starting lineup makes any money??
2026 starting lineup
C Herrera
1b Burly
2b JJ
SS Winn
3b Gorman
LF Noot
CF Scott
RF Walker
DH Who Knows

May
Libby
McGreevy
Fitts
Pallente

[Jatalk]

I mean that's gotta be enough to at least up the payroll 30 million? Right? A competitive talent with actual top tier talent on the field draws close to 3 million. You got to figure at least a million or so if the team is pretty bad. That's probably a drop of nearly 2 million tickets per year. How much is a ticket now a days?
Here are prices for the May 19 , 2023 game against the Los Angeles Dodgers: Lowest price: $22 before fees for Section 431, Row 3 Pricey side: $1,026 before fees for Section 1, Row K Dugout box: $103 before fees for Section 132, Row C Fans looking for less expensive options can also wait for promotional periods. Cardinals tickets have been sold for as little as $6 this season.

So, if we just take the $22 tickets that's what about $40 million? Give or take? That's just ticket sales and that's the lowest except for promotional sales.

So, how much money are they throwing in the wind with their tanking? Why would they intentionally throw away money?

Less than when they were trying to win the past couple of seasons

The biggest loss is not in annual net income. It will be in wealth/value of the franschise, which will take a large haircut vs not growing at high rates all decade like it did in previous decades with a full Busch stadium. This could cost the family 9 or even 10 figures depending on the timing of when they sell, or cost them an opportunity to sell althother.

Company valuations are partly/largely based on top line growth rates. A negative top line change doesn't not command a premium multiple.

Keep in mind this is not a normal business. You are correct about top line growth impacting valuations. But in this case there are limited number of franchises. And the market they serve or potentially serve are a lock. Potential results vs historical results are going to heavily impact a valuation in this case. I don’t think the loss in value is as great in this situation compared to a “normal” business.

[blackinkbiz]

Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???

getting rid of 2 of our top 3 players - we will be lucky to win 70 games next year and many of us will not be going to the park anymore at least until the tank job is over!

Baffles me that fans can't grasp the difference between tanking and a rebuild.

-In "tanking," you get rid of ALL players possible that hold any value and/or are due an upcoming payday. Even if they're young and could potentially be part of the future in 3-5 years, you get rid of anyone you can who's above replacement level because the goal is to lose as many games as possible to attain the highest possible draft picks for as long as the "tanking" lasts.

-In a rebuild, you trade all players of value who are too old or, for whatever reason, not part of the team's 3-5 year future plan in return for draft picks, prospects, or young MLB-ready players that are part of the team's future and/or 3-5 year plan. Unlike tanking, rebuilding teams ARE trying to win and compete as quickly as they can, but are willing to endure a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful run in the near future.

To sum up:

-Tanking: blows up the team with the intention of finishing dead last if possible in order to acquire as many top draft picks for as long as the tanking lasts

-Rebuilding: trading away players not part of the future to acquire assets who are part of the future. Willing to accept a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful franchise in the near future. While top draft picks are great if the team gets them, the team is still trying to win as quickly as they can.

Who in this starting lineup makes any money??
2026 starting lineup
C Herrera
1b Burly
2b JJ
SS Winn
3b Gorman
LF Noot
CF Scott
RF Walker
DH Who Knows

May
Libby
McGreevy
Fitts
Pallente

None of them make a substantial salary and are all young enough to be part of the 3-5 year future plan. Which is precisely why they're all part of the rebuild.

[Goldfan]

Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???

getting rid of 2 of our top 3 players - we will be lucky to win 70 games next year and many of us will not be going to the park anymore at least until the tank job is over!

Baffles me that fans can't grasp the difference between tanking and a rebuild.

-In "tanking," you get rid of ALL players possible that hold any value and/or are due an upcoming payday. Even if they're young and could potentially be part of the future in 3-5 years, you get rid of anyone you can who's above replacement level because the goal is to lose as many games as possible to attain the highest possible draft picks for as long as the "tanking" lasts.

-In a rebuild, you trade all players of value who are too old or, for whatever reason, not part of the team's 3-5 year future plan in return for draft picks, prospects, or young MLB-ready players that are part of the team's future and/or 3-5 year plan. Unlike tanking, rebuilding teams ARE trying to win and compete as quickly as they can, but are willing to endure a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful run in the near future.

To sum up:

-Tanking: blows up the team with the intention of finishing dead last if possible in order to acquire as many top draft picks for as long as the tanking lasts

-Rebuilding: trading away players not part of the future to acquire assets who are part of the future. Willing to accept a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful franchise in the near future. While top draft picks are great if the team gets them, the team is still trying to win as quickly as they can.

Who in this starting lineup makes any money??
2026 starting lineup
C Herrera
1b Burly
2b JJ
SS Winn
3b Gorman
LF Noot
CF Scott
RF Walker
DH Who Knows

May
Libby
McGreevy
Fitts
Pallente

None of them make a substantial salary and are all young enough to be part of the 3-5 year future plan. Which is precisely why they're all part of the rebuild.

We’ve been “Rebuilding” a couple years now, at least….with Burly, WInn, Gorman, Noot, Scott, Walker. How’s it going??

[Ozziesfan41]

Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???

getting rid of 2 of our top 3 players - we will be lucky to win 70 games next year and many of us will not be going to the park anymore at least until the tank job is over!

Baffles me that fans can't grasp the difference between tanking and a rebuild.

-In "tanking," you get rid of ALL players possible that hold any value and/or are due an upcoming payday. Even if they're young and could potentially be part of the future in 3-5 years, you get rid of anyone you can who's above replacement level because the goal is to lose as many games as possible to attain the highest possible draft picks for as long as the "tanking" lasts.

-In a rebuild, you trade all players of value who are too old or, for whatever reason, not part of the team's 3-5 year future plan in return for draft picks, prospects, or young MLB-ready players that are part of the team's future and/or 3-5 year plan. Unlike tanking, rebuilding teams ARE trying to win and compete as quickly as they can, but are willing to endure a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful run in the near future.

To sum up:

-Tanking: blows up the team with the intention of finishing dead last if possible in order to acquire as many top draft picks for as long as the tanking lasts

-Rebuilding: trading away players not part of the future to acquire assets who are part of the future. Willing to accept a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful franchise in the near future. While top draft picks are great if the team gets them, the team is still trying to win as quickly as they can.

Who in this starting lineup makes any money??
2026 starting lineup
C Herrera
1b Burly
2b JJ
SS Winn
3b Gorman
LF Noot
CF Scott
RF Walker
DH Who Knows

May
Libby
McGreevy
Fitts
Pallente

None of them make a substantial salary and are all young enough to be part of the 3-5 year future plan. Which is precisely why they're all part of the rebuild.

We’ve been “Rebuilding” a couple years now, at least….with Burly, WInn, Gorman, Noot, Scott, Walker. How’s it going??

They haven’t been rebuilding. If they were rebuilding they wouldn’t have signed Contreras or signed gray in 2024 and they wouldn’t have traded edman for fedde then kept fedde and helsley until the deadline. If they were rebuilding they wouldn’t have stripped the minor league development system

[Jeff Goldblum]

Thats the price you pay for hiring a pizza boy to run your professional baseball franchise.

[dugoutrex]

Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???

getting rid of 2 of our top 3 players - we will be lucky to win 70 games next year and many of us will not be going to the park anymore at least until the tank job is over!

Baffles me that fans can't grasp the difference between tanking and a rebuild.

-In "tanking," you get rid of ALL players possible that hold any value and/or are due an upcoming payday. Even if they're young and could potentially be part of the future in 3-5 years, you get rid of anyone you can who's above replacement level because the goal is to lose as many games as possible to attain the highest possible draft picks for as long as the "tanking" lasts.

-In a rebuild, you trade all players of value who are too old or, for whatever reason, not part of the team's 3-5 year future plan in return for draft picks, prospects, or young MLB-ready players that are part of the team's future and/or 3-5 year plan. Unlike tanking, rebuilding teams ARE trying to win and compete as quickly as they can, but are willing to endure a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful run in the near future.

To sum up:

-Tanking: blows up the team with the intention of finishing dead last if possible in order to acquire as many top draft picks for as long as the tanking lasts

-Rebuilding: trading away players not part of the future to acquire assets who are part of the future. Willing to accept a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful franchise in the near future. While top draft picks are great if the team gets them, the team is still trying to win as quickly as they can.

no worries - we are going to finish dead last in the Central

[Ozziesfan41]

Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???

getting rid of 2 of our top 3 players - we will be lucky to win 70 games next year and many of us will not be going to the park anymore at least until the tank job is over!

Baffles me that fans can't grasp the difference between tanking and a rebuild.

-In "tanking," you get rid of ALL players possible that hold any value and/or are due an upcoming payday. Even if they're young and could potentially be part of the future in 3-5 years, you get rid of anyone you can who's above replacement level because the goal is to lose as many games as possible to attain the highest possible draft picks for as long as the "tanking" lasts.

-In a rebuild, you trade all players of value who are too old or, for whatever reason, not part of the team's 3-5 year future plan in return for draft picks, prospects, or young MLB-ready players that are part of the team's future and/or 3-5 year plan. Unlike tanking, rebuilding teams ARE trying to win and compete as quickly as they can, but are willing to endure a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful run in the near future.

To sum up:

-Tanking: blows up the team with the intention of finishing dead last if possible in order to acquire as many top draft picks for as long as the tanking lasts

-Rebuilding: trading away players not part of the future to acquire assets who are part of the future. Willing to accept a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful franchise in the near future. While top draft picks are great if the team gets them, the team is still trying to win as quickly as they can.

no worries - we are going to finish dead last in the Central

As opposed to next to last if they kept gray and Donovan and Contreras oh the horror

[CorneliusWolfe]

Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???

To be fair, they did trade away their best pitcher and best hitter.

2023-2025 fWAR - Top 10 Cardinals players
8.2 Contreras - traded
7.5 Donovan - on the trade block
7.4 Gray - traded
6.8 Arenado - on the trade block
6.3 Winn
5.7 Nootbar - soon to be on the trade block
5.3 Mikolas - departed as a FA
5.1 Herrera
4.6 Goldschmidt - departed as a FA
4.2 Helsley - traded
3.2 Matz - traded

That seems to resemble intentionally performing poorly to achieve a strategic advantage...

If there’s no phase 2 to this offseason, then it’s totally a tank job. I’m hoping there is some intent on filling some holes with short term additions at least.

I need a reason to renew my MLB subscription. Competing for a playoff spot while watching the farm start paying some dividends would at least be interesting.

[blackinkbiz]

Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???

getting rid of 2 of our top 3 players - we will be lucky to win 70 games next year and many of us will not be going to the park anymore at least until the tank job is over!

Baffles me that fans can't grasp the difference between tanking and a rebuild.

-In "tanking," you get rid of ALL players possible that hold any value and/or are due an upcoming payday. Even if they're young and could potentially be part of the future in 3-5 years, you get rid of anyone you can who's above replacement level because the goal is to lose as many games as possible to attain the highest possible draft picks for as long as the "tanking" lasts.

-In a rebuild, you trade all players of value who are too old or, for whatever reason, not part of the team's 3-5 year future plan in return for draft picks, prospects, or young MLB-ready players that are part of the team's future and/or 3-5 year plan. Unlike tanking, rebuilding teams ARE trying to win and compete as quickly as they can, but are willing to endure a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful run in the near future.

To sum up:

-Tanking: blows up the team with the intention of finishing dead last if possible in order to acquire as many top draft picks for as long as the tanking lasts

-Rebuilding: trading away players not part of the future to acquire assets who are part of the future. Willing to accept a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful franchise in the near future. While top draft picks are great if the team gets them, the team is still trying to win as quickly as they can.

Who in this starting lineup makes any money??
2026 starting lineup
C Herrera
1b Burly
2b JJ
SS Winn
3b Gorman
LF Noot
CF Scott
RF Walker
DH Who Knows

May
Libby
McGreevy
Fitts
Pallente

None of them make a substantial salary and are all young enough to be part of the 3-5 year future plan. Which is precisely why they're all part of the rebuild.

We’ve been “Rebuilding” a couple years now, at least….with Burly, WInn, Gorman, Noot, Scott, Walker. How’s it going??

They've been rebuilding on the fly or to take a term from Blues GM Armstrong, it's been more of a "retool."

And the "retool" failed miserably, for a multitude of reasons. Which is why I'm glad they've decided to stop prolonging the torture and embrace the full rebuild process.

[Goldfan]

Curious
What moves made so far by Bloom indicates they are “tanking”???

getting rid of 2 of our top 3 players - we will be lucky to win 70 games next year and many of us will not be going to the park anymore at least until the tank job is over!

Baffles me that fans can't grasp the difference between tanking and a rebuild.

-In "tanking," you get rid of ALL players possible that hold any value and/or are due an upcoming payday. Even if they're young and could potentially be part of the future in 3-5 years, you get rid of anyone you can who's above replacement level because the goal is to lose as many games as possible to attain the highest possible draft picks for as long as the "tanking" lasts.

-In a rebuild, you trade all players of value who are too old or, for whatever reason, not part of the team's 3-5 year future plan in return for draft picks, prospects, or young MLB-ready players that are part of the team's future and/or 3-5 year plan. Unlike tanking, rebuilding teams ARE trying to win and compete as quickly as they can, but are willing to endure a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful run in the near future.

To sum up:

-Tanking: blows up the team with the intention of finishing dead last if possible in order to acquire as many top draft picks for as long as the tanking lasts

-Rebuilding: trading away players not part of the future to acquire assets who are part of the future. Willing to accept a couple down seasons for the hope of a longer, successful franchise in the near future. While top draft picks are great if the team gets them, the team is still trying to win as quickly as they can.

Who in this starting lineup makes any money??
2026 starting lineup
C Herrera
1b Burly
2b JJ
SS Winn
3b Gorman
LF Noot
CF Scott
RF Walker
DH Who Knows

May
Libby
McGreevy
Fitts
Pallente

None of them make a substantial salary and are all young enough to be part of the 3-5 year future plan. Which is precisely why they're all part of the rebuild.

We’ve been “Rebuilding” a couple years now, at least….with Burly, WInn, Gorman, Noot, Scott, Walker. How’s it going??

They haven’t been rebuilding. If they were rebuilding they wouldn’t have signed Contreras or signed gray in 2024 and they wouldn’t have traded edman for fedde then kept fedde and helsley until the deadline. If they were rebuilding they wouldn’t have stripped the minor league development system

The point is if these Yutes were excelling…..we wouldn’t be REBUILDING right now…..we would be excelling…..
Gorman, Noot, Scott, Walker are nothing…..so what are we doing with them besides biding time and cheap labor. To be a good team those positions will need to be replaced with actual talent. Do you see replacements??