So the San Diego writer finds out what happened in St. Louis with Shildt

[Melville]

from the San Diego paper:

"His .561 winning percentage is seventh-best among men whose managerial careers extended past 1951. His teams went to the playoffs in all five of the full seasons he managed.

When his 2019 team advanced to the National League Championship Series, it ended the Cardinals’ three-year postseason drought. The Cardinals made the postseason the year after his departure, but have missed the playoffs each of the past three seasons."

There is that one detail.
The guy does win.

what's his playoff record ?

9 post season wins.
How many has The Marmot won?

[hmoss859]

I find it hard to believe all the Shildt Spread. Sounds like a bunch of anonymous quotes were jumping on the beds like 5 year olds, oh, Mikey was Mean

Shildt was a superior manager to Marmol in all phases, one has won 9 playoff games, the other had stage fright in2022 and won 0

[icon]

Thread is just a runaway train full of assumptions.

Two facts. When he got mad at umpires and got on their face
shrieking F bombs, it wasn’t good. Had a hair trigger for anger. And the clubhouse video that was leaked showed a whole different side of him.

My thoughts exactly. He actually believes it’s uncommon(and possibly even demonic) for pro athletes/coaches(aka a group of dudes) to use swear words.

...+1...hard to believe anyone could be that naive.

I heard that Earl Weaver is now teaching coaching etiquette.

There are always a few grannies who get shocked whenever they find out athletes talk like real people...

There is swearing in MLB? Color me shocked, shocked! My lip reading over the years has failed me.

[JuanAgosto]

Shildt had a favorite saying in every post game in StL. "The proof is in the puddin'". He sounded like some backcountry hayseed. It sounds like his Padres coaches were about to kick Mikey's puddin' (donkey).

f63eukjroewkwjvehnqh.jpeg (50.75 KiB) Viewed 206 times

[RunSup]

Gee, Mike Shildt used foul language and was irritable with coaches and players that relied on analytics rather than focus on and teach good fundamentals. Golly! Gosh! Gee Wilakers!

Was Shildt abusive? Or was he just too staunchly old school and crochety for this over sensitive generation? Does anybody really care anymore?

Yes he could've been more accepting of modern tech and methods. But his focus on fundamentals and the good way to play baseball helped turn 2 underachieving teams around and into the playoffs.

And God only knows what Bernie is crowing about. It was widely reported in StL that Shildt had little patience and a short temper when he had it out with Mo. I don't remember Bernie adding anything more to the conversation. But if he needs to claim victory, fine. Whatever Bernie said back then was easy-obvious-correct. Congratulations.

Who cares?

[Red7]

Those coaches were the problem and Shildt knew it. It was no secret he clashed with Jeff Albert and wanted him at least reassigned. Shildt said internally what we were all saying publicly. Remember, "HIS" staff consisted of his bench coaches. Everyone else was hired by Mo. Who do you think they were loyal to? He pushed back against the geeks. They can't stand the locker room guys. Haven't since 7th grade PE. And, you guys think Albert or Yadi would make it...

[icon]

Those coaches were the problem and Shildt knew it. It was no secret he clashed with Jeff Albert and wanted him at least reassigned. Shildt said internally what we were all saying publicly. Remember, "HIS" staff consisted of his bench coaches. Everyone else was hired by Mo. Who do you think they were loyal to? He pushed back against the geeks. They can't stand the locker room guys. Haven't since 7th grade PE. And, you guys think Albert or Yadi would make it...

Tommy Edman spoke out as well during that time, saying that hitters were not often being prepared properly. And after that time, the Cardinals went on a hitting spree and a winning spree of 17 games.

[Jatalk]

I think all this Shildt bashing is hog wash. No doubt:
He was old school
He probably was hard on coaches
He’s a winner.

Consider this. Why did the Cardinals keep him in the organization for so long? I’m sure his “personality” was always on display. Why were they surprised at his hard nose, old school approach?

[11WSChamps]

Those coaches were the problem and Shildt knew it. It was no secret he clashed with Jeff Albert and wanted him at least reassigned. Shildt said internally what we were all saying publicly. Remember, "HIS" staff consisted of his bench coaches. Everyone else was hired by Mo. Who do you think they were loyal to? He pushed back against the geeks. They can't stand the locker room guys. Haven't since 7th grade PE. And, you guys think Albert or Yadi would make it...

Tommy Edman spoke out as well during that time, saying that hitters were not often being prepared properly. And after that time, the Cardinals went on a hitting spree and a winning spree of 17 games.

And being the son of a coach you can bet Edman is from "the old school" like Shildt.

Sounds like Shildt didn't have a lot friends in the room.

The man got results that's all that should matter unless you're running a YMCA.

[renostl]

Gee, Mike Shildt used foul language and was irritable with coaches and players that relied on analytics rather than focus on and teach good fundamentals. Golly! Gosh! Gee Wilakers!

Was Shildt abusive? Or was he just too staunchly old school and crochety for this over sensitive generation? Does anybody really care anymore?

Yes he could've been more accepting of modern tech and methods. But his focus on fundamentals and the good way to play baseball helped turn 2 underachieving teams around and into the playoffs.

And God only knows what Bernie is crowing about. It was widely reported in StL that Shildt had little patience and a short temper when he had it out with Mo. I don't remember Bernie adding anything more to the conversation. But if he needs to claim victory, fine. Whatever Bernie said back then was easy-obvious-correct. Congratulations.

Who cares?

Do we really think that a coach was fired twice because he uses foul language?
Seems equally disingenuous. Fired because of being competitive or having standards.

Seems insulting to every coach in the country.

We don't know what happened in MO's office either. Possibly nothing but not
MO's behavior to say either way. I actually agree with Cranny in thinking he should have been suspended when he asked
the umpire "you want to go". Come on.


I'll be of the opinion that Mike has went above the acceptable normal until proven otherwise
because as people point out, he put teams in position to win.

I'm not a Bernie fan either although he can do good work. He chooses to be less complete IMO, than
in his past.

[Red7]

Those coaches were the problem and Shildt knew it. It was no secret he clashed with Jeff Albert and wanted him at least reassigned. Shildt said internally what we were all saying publicly. Remember, "HIS" staff consisted of his bench coaches. Everyone else was hired by Mo. Who do you think they were loyal to? He pushed back against the geeks. They can't stand the locker room guys. Haven't since 7th grade PE. And, you guys think Albert or Yadi would make it...

Tommy Edman spoke out as well during that time, saying that hitters were not often being prepared properly. And after that time, the Cardinals went on a hitting spree and a winning spree of 17 games.

I took Edman’s words as the student who didn’t study and blamed the teacher because he flunked the test.

[RunSup]

Gee, Mike Shildt used foul language and was irritable with coaches and players that relied on analytics rather than focus on and teach good fundamentals. Golly! Gosh! Gee Wilakers!

Was Shildt abusive? Or was he just too staunchly old school and crochety for this over sensitive generation? Does anybody really care anymore?

Yes he could've been more accepting of modern tech and methods. But his focus on fundamentals and the good way to play baseball helped turn 2 underachieving teams around and into the playoffs.

And God only knows what Bernie is crowing about. It was widely reported in StL that Shildt had little patience and a short temper when he had it out with Mo. I don't remember Bernie adding anything more to the conversation. But if he needs to claim victory, fine. Whatever Bernie said back then was easy-obvious-correct. Congratulations.

Who cares?

Do we really think that a coach was fired twice because he uses foul language?
Seems equally disingenuous. Fired because of being competitive or having standards.

Seems insulting to every coach in the country.

We don't know what happened in MO's office either. Possibly nothing but not
MO's behavior to say either way. I actually agree with Cranny in thinking he should have been suspended when he asked
the umpire "you want to go". Come on.


I'll be of the opinion that Mike has went above the acceptable normal until proven otherwise
because as people point out, he put teams in position to win.

I'm not a Bernie fan either although he can do good work. He chooses to be less complete IMO, than
in his past.

I think Shildt does not have a job because

1. He insisted on a right way to play the game that valued fundamentals over technology.

2. He doesn't believe in selling out for power and believed there were many ways to score runs by being able to execute sound baseball.

3. When he thought something was wrong in management or coaching approach he called it out.

4. He may have dismissed state of the art approaches and differing ideas.

5. He had a blunt, gruff style and swore like a sailor. Some could accept or responded to its. Others were offended and threatened to leave.

6. He pointed out a declining development organization and bad approaches. Apparently he did that by cursing out his boss in a staff meeting that was scheduled right after the team was bounced out of the playoffs in the first round when passions were still high.

He was not wrong on fundamentals. He's also not a patient and sensitive communicator that this generation needs.

I laugh at any in StL media who claim they reported that Shildt was abusive towards his coaches at the time. I have not bothered to listen to what Bernie said this week, so I really don't know what he is claiming.

Derick Goold himself said in his BPiBB podcast that he did not report coach abuse because that's not what his sources told him. There was a heated exchange with Jeff Albert at mid season about hitting approaches in 2022. The approach was modified and the Cardinals made it to the playoffs.

[renostl]

Gee, Mike Shildt used foul language and was irritable with coaches and players that relied on analytics rather than focus on and teach good fundamentals. Golly! Gosh! Gee Wilakers!

Was Shildt abusive? Or was he just too staunchly old school and crochety for this over sensitive generation? Does anybody really care anymore?

Yes he could've been more accepting of modern tech and methods. But his focus on fundamentals and the good way to play baseball helped turn 2 underachieving teams around and into the playoffs.

And God only knows what Bernie is crowing about. It was widely reported in StL that Shildt had little patience and a short temper when he had it out with Mo. I don't remember Bernie adding anything more to the conversation. But if he needs to claim victory, fine. Whatever Bernie said back then was easy-obvious-correct. Congratulations.

Who cares?

Do we really think that a coach was fired twice because he uses foul language?
Seems equally disingenuous. Fired because of being competitive or having standards.

Seems insulting to every coach in the country.

We don't know what happened in MO's office either. Possibly nothing but not
MO's behavior to say either way. I actually agree with Cranny in thinking he should have been suspended when he asked
the umpire "you want to go". Come on.


I'll be of the opinion that Mike has went above the acceptable normal until proven otherwise
because as people point out, he put teams in position to win.

I'm not a Bernie fan either although he can do good work. He chooses to be less complete IMO, than
in his past.

I think Shildt does not have a job because

1. He insisted on a right way to play the game that valued fundamentals over technology.

2. He doesn't believe in selling out for power and believed there were many ways to score runs by being able to execute sound baseball.

3. When he thought something was wrong in management or coaching approach he called it out.

4. He may have dismissed state of the art approaches and differing ideas.

5. He had a blunt, gruff style and swore like a sailor. Some could accept or responded to its. Others were offended and threatened to leave.

6. He pointed out a declining development organization and bad approaches. Apparently he did that by cursing out his boss in a staff meeting that was scheduled right after the team was bounced out of the playoffs in the first round when passions were still high.

He was not wrong on fundamentals. He's also not a patient and sensitive communicator that this generation needs.

I laugh at any in StL media who claim they reported that Shildt was abusive towards his coaches at the time. I have not bothered to listen to what Bernie said this week, so I really don't know what he is claiming.

Derick Goold himself said in his BPiBB podcast that he did not report coach abuse because that's not what his sources told him. There was a heated exchange with Jeff Albert at mid season about hitting approaches in 2022. The approach was modified and the Cardinals made it to the playoffs.

There is more speculation here than I care to continue with. It’s how this topic has to go. I responded to it because the thought that foul language, being gruff, too rough for today's standards, teaching fundamentals, situational hitting got him fired
I disagree.

His issues, IF he does have them, are not stand alone in St. Louis now for he is now retired.
He may well be out of baseball with little to do with foul language, or disagreement in approach or strategy.
Hopefully for Mike he can work in his career if he desires to.

[RunSup]

Gee, Mike Shildt used foul language and was irritable with coaches and players that relied on analytics rather than focus on and teach good fundamentals. Golly! Gosh! Gee Wilakers!

Was Shildt abusive? Or was he just too staunchly old school and crochety for this over sensitive generation? Does anybody really care anymore?

Yes he could've been more accepting of modern tech and methods. But his focus on fundamentals and the good way to play baseball helped turn 2 underachieving teams around and into the playoffs.

And God only knows what Bernie is crowing about. It was widely reported in StL that Shildt had little patience and a short temper when he had it out with Mo. I don't remember Bernie adding anything more to the conversation. But if he needs to claim victory, fine. Whatever Bernie said back then was easy-obvious-correct. Congratulations.

Who cares?

Do we really think that a coach was fired twice because he uses foul language?
Seems equally disingenuous. Fired because of being competitive or having standards.

Seems insulting to every coach in the country.

We don't know what happened in MO's office either. Possibly nothing but not
MO's behavior to say either way. I actually agree with Cranny in thinking he should have been suspended when he asked
the umpire "you want to go". Come on.


I'll be of the opinion that Mike has went above the acceptable normal until proven otherwise
because as people point out, he put teams in position to win.

I'm not a Bernie fan either although he can do good work. He chooses to be less complete IMO, than
in his past.

I think Shildt does not have a job because

1. He insisted on a right way to play the game that valued fundamentals over technology.

2. He doesn't believe in selling out for power and believed there were many ways to score runs by being able to execute sound baseball.

3. When he thought something was wrong in management or coaching approach he called it out.

4. He may have dismissed state of the art approaches and differing ideas.

5. He had a blunt, gruff style and swore like a sailor. Some could accept or responded to its. Others were offended and threatened to leave.

6. He pointed out a declining development organization and bad approaches. Apparently he did that by cursing out his boss in a staff meeting that was scheduled right after the team was bounced out of the playoffs in the first round when passions were still high.

He was not wrong on fundamentals. He's also not a patient and sensitive communicator that this generation needs.

I laugh at any in StL media who claim they reported that Shildt was abusive towards his coaches at the time. I have not bothered to listen to what Bernie said this week, so I really don't know what he is claiming.

Derick Goold himself said in his BPiBB podcast that he did not report coach abuse because that's not what his sources told him. There was a heated exchange with Jeff Albert at mid season about hitting approaches in 2022. The approach was modified and the Cardinals made it to the playoffs.

There is more speculation here than I care to continue with. It’s how this topic has to go. I responded to it because the thought that foul language, being gruff, too rough for today's standards, teaching fundamentals, situational hitting got him fired
I disagree.

His issues, IF he does have them, are not stand alone in St. Louis now for he is now retired.
He may well be out of baseball with little to do with foul language, or disagreement in approach or strategy.
Hopefully for Mike he can work in his career if he desires to.

Agreed that the whole topic is speculation. Even reports from a SD reporter with named sources. Nobody here was in the room.

Shildt has a good baseball mind. Hopefully if he wants to continue a career in baseball he can without being black balled.

Also I didn't say he got fired for foul language. You said I said that. So that's your straw man.

But really like I said earlier and you say here. Who cares?

[renostl]

Gee, Mike Shildt used foul language and was irritable with coaches and players that relied on analytics rather than focus on and teach good fundamentals. Golly! Gosh! Gee Wilakers!

Was Shildt abusive? Or was he just too staunchly old school and crochety for this over sensitive generation? Does anybody really care anymore?

Yes he could've been more accepting of modern tech and methods. But his focus on fundamentals and the good way to play baseball helped turn 2 underachieving teams around and into the playoffs.

And God only knows what Bernie is crowing about. It was widely reported in StL that Shildt had little patience and a short temper when he had it out with Mo. I don't remember Bernie adding anything more to the conversation. But if he needs to claim victory, fine. Whatever Bernie said back then was easy-obvious-correct. Congratulations.

Who cares?

Do we really think that a coach was fired twice because he uses foul language?
Seems equally disingenuous. Fired because of being competitive or having standards.

Seems insulting to every coach in the country.

We don't know what happened in MO's office either. Possibly nothing but not
MO's behavior to say either way. I actually agree with Cranny in thinking he should have been suspended when he asked
the umpire "you want to go". Come on.


I'll be of the opinion that Mike has went above the acceptable normal until proven otherwise
because as people point out, he put teams in position to win.

I'm not a Bernie fan either although he can do good work. He chooses to be less complete IMO, than
in his past.

I think Shildt does not have a job because

1. He insisted on a right way to play the game that valued fundamentals over technology.

2. He doesn't believe in selling out for power and believed there were many ways to score runs by being able to execute sound baseball.

3. When he thought something was wrong in management or coaching approach he called it out.

4. He may have dismissed state of the art approaches and differing ideas.

5. He had a blunt, gruff style and swore like a sailor. Some could accept or responded to its. Others were offended and threatened to leave.

6. He pointed out a declining development organization and bad approaches. Apparently he did that by cursing out his boss in a staff meeting that was scheduled right after the team was bounced out of the playoffs in the first round when passions were still high.

He was not wrong on fundamentals. He's also not a patient and sensitive communicator that this generation needs.

I laugh at any in StL media who claim they reported that Shildt was abusive towards his coaches at the time. I have not bothered to listen to what Bernie said this week, so I really don't know what he is claiming.

Derick Goold himself said in his BPiBB podcast that he did not report coach abuse because that's not what his sources told him. There was a heated exchange with Jeff Albert at mid season about hitting approaches in 2022. The approach was modified and the Cardinals made it to the playoffs.

There is more speculation here than I care to continue with. It’s how this topic has to go. I responded to it because the thought that foul language, being gruff, too rough for today's standards, teaching fundamentals, situational hitting got him fired
I disagree.

His issues, IF he does have them, are not stand alone in St. Louis now for he is now retired.
He may well be out of baseball with little to do with foul language, or disagreement in approach or strategy.
Hopefully for Mike he can work in his career if he desires to.

Agreed that the whole topic is speculation. Even reports from a SD reporter with named sources. Nobody here was in the room.

Shildt has a good baseball mind. Hopefully if he wants to continue a career in baseball he can without being black balled.

Also I didn't say he got fired for foul language. You said I said that. So that's your straw man.

But really like I said earlier and you say here. Who cares?

The bolded along with comments throughout the thread might be reason to
think that you were among those with that opinion. Sorry for the misunderstanding but not really strawman.

[RunSup]

Gee, Mike Shildt used foul language and was irritable with coaches and players that relied on analytics rather than focus on and teach good fundamentals. Golly! Gosh! Gee Wilakers!

Was Shildt abusive? Or was he just too staunchly old school and crochety for this over sensitive generation? Does anybody really care anymore?

Yes he could've been more accepting of modern tech and methods. But his focus on fundamentals and the good way to play baseball helped turn 2 underachieving teams around and into the playoffs.

And God only knows what Bernie is crowing about. It was widely reported in StL that Shildt had little patience and a short temper when he had it out with Mo. I don't remember Bernie adding anything more to the conversation. But if he needs to claim victory, fine. Whatever Bernie said back then was easy-obvious-correct. Congratulations.

Who cares?

Do we really think that a coach was fired twice because he uses foul language?
Seems equally disingenuous. Fired because of being competitive or having standards.

Seems insulting to every coach in the country.

We don't know what happened in MO's office either. Possibly nothing but not
MO's behavior to say either way. I actually agree with Cranny in thinking he should have been suspended when he asked
the umpire "you want to go". Come on.


I'll be of the opinion that Mike has went above the acceptable normal until proven otherwise
because as people point out, he put teams in position to win.

I'm not a Bernie fan either although he can do good work. He chooses to be less complete IMO, than
in his past.

I think Shildt does not have a job because

1. He insisted on a right way to play the game that valued fundamentals over technology.

2. He doesn't believe in selling out for power and believed there were many ways to score runs by being able to execute sound baseball.

3. When he thought something was wrong in management or coaching approach he called it out.

4. He may have dismissed state of the art approaches and differing ideas.

5. He had a blunt, gruff style and swore like a sailor. Some could accept or responded to its. Others were offended and threatened to leave.

6. He pointed out a declining development organization and bad approaches. Apparently he did that by cursing out his boss in a staff meeting that was scheduled right after the team was bounced out of the playoffs in the first round when passions were still high.

He was not wrong on fundamentals. He's also not a patient and sensitive communicator that this generation needs.

I laugh at any in StL media who claim they reported that Shildt was abusive towards his coaches at the time. I have not bothered to listen to what Bernie said this week, so I really don't know what he is claiming.

Derick Goold himself said in his BPiBB podcast that he did not report coach abuse because that's not what his sources told him. There was a heated exchange with Jeff Albert at mid season about hitting approaches in 2022. The approach was modified and the Cardinals made it to the playoffs.

There is more speculation here than I care to continue with. It’s how this topic has to go. I responded to it because the thought that foul language, being gruff, too rough for today's standards, teaching fundamentals, situational hitting got him fired
I disagree.

His issues, IF he does have them, are not stand alone in St. Louis now for he is now retired.
He may well be out of baseball with little to do with foul language, or disagreement in approach or strategy.
Hopefully for Mike he can work in his career if he desires to.

Agreed that the whole topic is speculation. Even reports from a SD reporter with named sources. Nobody here was in the room.

Shildt has a good baseball mind. Hopefully if he wants to continue a career in baseball he can without being black balled.

Also I didn't say he got fired for foul language. You said I said that. So that's your straw man.

But really like I said earlier and you say here. Who cares?

The bolded along with comments throughout the thread might be reason to
think that you were among those with that opinion. Sorry for the misunderstanding but not really strawman.

Sorry for sarcasm. Just heard a lot of post-Cardinal life bashing of Shildt last week. Stuff you never really saw in his public persona.

I speculate that he holds the Cardinal Way manual as baseball development scripture and may be unwilling to appreciate modern methods then dismissing anyone who doesn't cite The Way.

Pure speculation on my part. Doesn't mean The Way is wrong.

In DG's podcast he mentioned that Oli was the peacemaker. At least with the coaches. None of what he said was clear enough to know what happened. So that's all you'll get.

I don't need to keep talking about it. Peace.