Bloom will listen to interest for Donovan and Noot

[AZ_Cardsfan]

I think a number of ppl on this forum are too fixated on how to make the 2026 the best it can be. “Let’s keep Arenado, put BD at 2b, maybe throw JJ in the outfield!”

1. Nolan doesn’t want to be here and he had a horrible 2025. Gone.
2. BD is probably thei biggest trade chip and Bloom wants to amass prospects. Gone.
3. JJ is our #1 prospect. Wherever the org wants to play him, he should be there. For a long look. Even with a few growing pains if they happen.

I do think the 2026 team can be fun. Maybe even better than 2025. But the strategy is the strategy…

Thank you. 2026 is a rebuild regardless of what some want to believe and JJ is the team prospect jewel and should be played at his best position and left alone there. I believe SS-2B are comfortable for him and since Winn is a pretty good SS play JJ at 2B.

And some will moan and cry but JJ should NOT make the opening day lineup. He should start in AAA and allow him to force the issue and hopefully gain an additional year of control.

Thanks!

I know I sound like a homer, but if JJ makes the OD roster, I trust Bloom is doing it based on a long term strategy.

Fingers crossed.

I don't see it as being a homer. I also hope he makes the right decisions. And if he does make the opening day it should be because they think he has a chance at being ROY or such which returns a draft pick. Not to change the w-l from 78-84 to 81-81.

[Melville]

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

Donovan won a gold glove as a utility player, not as a 2B. He was the most serviceable defensively at multiple positions, not the best defensive second baseman. This is not to say he isn't a good defensive second baseman.

True but the debate is Wetherholt vs Donovan at second base. Wetherholt made 12 errors in 2025 mostly at shortstop. If he had made 12 errors at second base in MLB he would be tied for worst in MLB. If we do a complete dump and rebuild trying prospects to see how they do that's a repeat of last place from 3 years ago.

Actually, the debate is not about Donovan vs. Wetherholt at second base.
Rather, it is a matter of strategic priorities as Bloom begins to put his vision of the future in place.
Who will be the better bat or better glove in 2026 is not all that relevant.
Can Wetherholt and Winn be the middle infield for the next several years?
That is one of the questions Bloom will seek an answer to.
And Donovan simply is not part of that specific question.

How has that formula worked for the Pirates? Get rid of the all star and try a prospect.

But then, that is not what I am advocating at all.
In fact, I have very specifically said that Mootbaar and Walker should be traded this off-season.
Not Donovan.
Instead, I have said Donovan should move to LF, serving as insurance at both 2b and 3b through July.
Then, evaluate.
In the meanwhile, determine Donovan's interest in an extension.
Ultimately, perhaps Donovan stays long term, or perhaps he does not.
But that should be decided in July.
Strategically, that is the right decision.

[ScotchMIrish]

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

Donovan won a gold glove as a utility player, not as a 2B. He was the most serviceable defensively at multiple positions, not the best defensive second baseman. This is not to say he isn't a good defensive second baseman.

True but the debate is Wetherholt vs Donovan at second base. Wetherholt made 12 errors in 2025 mostly at shortstop. If he had made 12 errors at second base in MLB he would be tied for worst in MLB. If we do a complete dump and rebuild trying prospects to see how they do that's a repeat of last place from 3 years ago.

Actually, the debate is not about Donovan vs. Wetherholt at second base.
Rather, it is a matter of strategic priorities as Bloom begins to put his vision of the future in place.
Who will be the better bat or better glove in 2026 is not all that relevant.
Can Wetherholt and Winn be the middle infield for the next several years?
That is one of the questions Bloom will seek an answer to.
And Donovan simply is not part of that specific question.

How has that formula worked for the Pirates? Get rid of the all star and try a prospect.

That formula has not worked well. A better math problem would be to TRY Donovan at third. Here’s a GG at utility, meaning he plays all positions well. I’m sure he’d play an adaquate third in a rebuild.

That might work but he was top notch defense and offense at 2B. What we don't know is what Wetherholt looked like at 2B and 3B in the minors and why the had him at shortstop when we have Winn. Seems odd to have him at shortstop most of the time.

Those are good questions. I used Donovan due to his ability to play a better than average defense where ever he plays. If that trend were to continue, then I thought he might be able to play a reasonable third.

I agree but apparently the organization tried Wetherholt at 2B and 3B but settled on SS. That doesn't lead to a lot of confidence in his ability to play 2B. Donovan can play 3B. Can Wetherhold play 2B? Wouldn't it have been better to leave in at 2B or 3B all season since we already have Winn? I don't understand the strategy.

[ScotchMIrish]

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

Donovan won a gold glove as a utility player, not as a 2B. He was the most serviceable defensively at multiple positions, not the best defensive second baseman. This is not to say he isn't a good defensive second baseman.

True but the debate is Wetherholt vs Donovan at second base. Wetherholt made 12 errors in 2025 mostly at shortstop. If he had made 12 errors at second base in MLB he would be tied for worst in MLB. If we do a complete dump and rebuild trying prospects to see how they do that's a repeat of last place from 3 years ago.

Actually, the debate is not about Donovan vs. Wetherholt at second base.
Rather, it is a matter of strategic priorities as Bloom begins to put his vision of the future in place.
Who will be the better bat or better glove in 2026 is not all that relevant.
Can Wetherholt and Winn be the middle infield for the next several years?
That is one of the questions Bloom will seek an answer to.
And Donovan simply is not part of that specific question.

How has that formula worked for the Pirates? Get rid of the all star and try a prospect.

But then, that is not what I am advocating at all.
In fact, I have very specifically said that Mootbaar and Walker should be traded this off-season.
Not Donovan.
Instead, I have said Donovan should move to LF, serving as insurance at both 2b and 3b through July.
Then, evaluate.
In the meanwhile, determine Donovan's interest in an extension.
Ultimately, perhaps Donovan stays long term, or perhaps he does not.
But that should be decided in July.
Strategically, that is the right decision.

I understand but Bloom apparently is shopping Donovan. If they trade Arenado who plays third base and given that Wetherholt played 100 games at SS and only 20 games at 2B. If the plan is to trade Donovan or move him to the outfield why did they having Wetherholt at SS when we already have Winn?

[ecleme22]

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

Donovan won a gold glove as a utility player, not as a 2B. He was the most serviceable defensively at multiple positions, not the best defensive second baseman. This is not to say he isn't a good defensive second baseman.

True but the debate is Wetherholt vs Donovan at second base. Wetherholt made 12 errors in 2025 mostly at shortstop. If he had made 12 errors at second base in MLB he would be tied for worst in MLB. If we do a complete dump and rebuild trying prospects to see how they do that's a repeat of last place from 3 years ago.

Actually, the debate is not about Donovan vs. Wetherholt at second base.
Rather, it is a matter of strategic priorities as Bloom begins to put his vision of the future in place.
Who will be the better bat or better glove in 2026 is not all that relevant.
Can Wetherholt and Winn be the middle infield for the next several years?
That is one of the questions Bloom will seek an answer to.
And Donovan simply is not part of that specific question.

How has that formula worked for the Pirates? Get rid of the all star and try a prospect.

But then, that is not what I am advocating at all.
In fact, I have very specifically said that Mootbaar and Walker should be traded this off-season.
Not Donovan.
Instead, I have said Donovan should move to LF, serving as insurance at both 2b and 3b through July.
Then, evaluate.
In the meanwhile, determine Donovan's interest in an extension.
Ultimately, perhaps Donovan stays long term, or perhaps he does not.
But that should be decided in July.
Strategically, that is the right decision.

I understand but Bloom apparently is shopping Donovan. If they trade Arenado who plays third base and given that Wetherholt played 100 games at SS and only 20 games at 2B. If the plan is to trade Donovan or move him to the outfield why did they having Wetherholt at SS when we already have Winn?

There are other 3bs in the world besides Arenado.

[riff raff]

You can trade Nado or you can trade Donovan, but you can't trade them both.
And...anybody that thinks Gorman can play an entire productive season at 3B is not thinking clearly.

[ScotchMIrish]

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

Donovan won a gold glove as a utility player, not as a 2B. He was the most serviceable defensively at multiple positions, not the best defensive second baseman. This is not to say he isn't a good defensive second baseman.

True but the debate is Wetherholt vs Donovan at second base. Wetherholt made 12 errors in 2025 mostly at shortstop. If he had made 12 errors at second base in MLB he would be tied for worst in MLB. If we do a complete dump and rebuild trying prospects to see how they do that's a repeat of last place from 3 years ago.

Actually, the debate is not about Donovan vs. Wetherholt at second base.
Rather, it is a matter of strategic priorities as Bloom begins to put his vision of the future in place.
Who will be the better bat or better glove in 2026 is not all that relevant.
Can Wetherholt and Winn be the middle infield for the next several years?
That is one of the questions Bloom will seek an answer to.
And Donovan simply is not part of that specific question.

How has that formula worked for the Pirates? Get rid of the all star and try a prospect.

But then, that is not what I am advocating at all.
In fact, I have very specifically said that Mootbaar and Walker should be traded this off-season.
Not Donovan.
Instead, I have said Donovan should move to LF, serving as insurance at both 2b and 3b through July.
Then, evaluate.
In the meanwhile, determine Donovan's interest in an extension.
Ultimately, perhaps Donovan stays long term, or perhaps he does not.
But that should be decided in July.
Strategically, that is the right decision.

I understand but Bloom apparently is shopping Donovan. If they trade Arenado who plays third base and given that Wetherholt played 100 games at SS and only 20 games at 2B. If the plan is to trade Donovan or move him to the outfield why did they having Wetherholt at SS when we already have Winn?

There are other 3bs in the world besides Arenado.

Right but why did Wetherholt play 100 games at shortstop? I don't understand the front office's plan.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

Right but why did Wetherholt play 100 games at shortstop? I don't understand the front office's plan.

Well as a guess because it is assumed of you can play SS you can play 2B. What if Winn had a career ending injury? What if he is traded? Keep him at the higher value more demanding position until either he can't cut it or you are certain he isn't going to play there in the majors.

And hold on now before you say no way they trade Winn. What if he returns a high end proven ML OFer with a big bat and some control? Hey, we GOT middle infielders. We do not have a proven bat for the OF. Just saying.

As I said earlier I expect them to move JJ to 2B now and keep him there.

[Hoosier59]

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

Donovan won a gold glove as a utility player, not as a 2B. He was the most serviceable defensively at multiple positions, not the best defensive second baseman. This is not to say he isn't a good defensive second baseman.

True but the debate is Wetherholt vs Donovan at second base. Wetherholt made 12 errors in 2025 mostly at shortstop. If he had made 12 errors at second base in MLB he would be tied for worst in MLB. If we do a complete dump and rebuild trying prospects to see how they do that's a repeat of last place from 3 years ago.

Actually, the debate is not about Donovan vs. Wetherholt at second base.
Rather, it is a matter of strategic priorities as Bloom begins to put his vision of the future in place.
Who will be the better bat or better glove in 2026 is not all that relevant.
Can Wetherholt and Winn be the middle infield for the next several years?
That is one of the questions Bloom will seek an answer to.
And Donovan simply is not part of that specific question.

How has that formula worked for the Pirates? Get rid of the all star and try a prospect.

But then, that is not what I am advocating at all.
In fact, I have very specifically said that Mootbaar and Walker should be traded this off-season.
Not Donovan.
Instead, I have said Donovan should move to LF, serving as insurance at both 2b and 3b through July.
Then, evaluate.
In the meanwhile, determine Donovan's interest in an extension.
Ultimately, perhaps Donovan stays long term, or perhaps he does not.
But that should be decided in July.
Strategically, that is the right decision.

I understand but Bloom apparently is shopping Donovan. If they trade Arenado who plays third base and given that Wetherholt played 100 games at SS and only 20 games at 2B. If the plan is to trade Donovan or move him to the outfield why did they having Wetherholt at SS when we already have Winn?

There are other 3bs in the world besides Arenado.

Right but why did Wetherholt play 100 games at shortstop? I don't understand the front office's plan.

Why didn’t Walker play some outfield in the minors before being thrust out there in his rookie season? Why was Gorman not given time at 2B in the minors? If Herrera is not very good at catching, why didn’t they find a better position for him?
Pretty much just how they do things in St Louis, hopefully that changes under Bloom.

[ecleme22]

Right but why did Wetherholt play 100 games at shortstop? I don't understand the front office's plan.

Well as a guess because it is assumed of you can play SS you can play 2B. What if Winn had a career ending injury? What if he is traded? Keep him at the higher value more demanding position until either he can't cut it or you are certain he isn't going to play there in the majors.

And hold on now before you say no way they trade Winn. What if he returns a high end proven ML OFer with a big bat and some control? Hey, we GOT middle infielders. We do not have a proven bat for the OF. Just saying.

As I said earlier I expect them to move JJ to 2B now and keep him there.

Yep

[ScotchMIrish]

Right but why did Wetherholt play 100 games at shortstop? I don't understand the front office's plan.

Well as a guess because it is assumed of you can play SS you can play 2B. What if Winn had a career ending injury? What if he is traded? Keep him at the higher value more demanding position until either he can't cut it or you are certain he isn't going to play there in the majors.

And hold on now before you say no way they trade Winn. What if he returns a high end proven ML OFer with a big bat and some control? Hey, we GOT middle infielders. We do not have a proven bat for the OF. Just saying.

As I said earlier I expect them to move JJ to 2B now and keep him there.

So they planned to use him at 2B but had him play 100 games at SS so he could step in when Winn gets a career ending injury.

[ScotchMIrish]

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

Donovan won a gold glove as a utility player, not as a 2B. He was the most serviceable defensively at multiple positions, not the best defensive second baseman. This is not to say he isn't a good defensive second baseman.

True but the debate is Wetherholt vs Donovan at second base. Wetherholt made 12 errors in 2025 mostly at shortstop. If he had made 12 errors at second base in MLB he would be tied for worst in MLB. If we do a complete dump and rebuild trying prospects to see how they do that's a repeat of last place from 3 years ago.

Actually, the debate is not about Donovan vs. Wetherholt at second base.
Rather, it is a matter of strategic priorities as Bloom begins to put his vision of the future in place.
Who will be the better bat or better glove in 2026 is not all that relevant.
Can Wetherholt and Winn be the middle infield for the next several years?
That is one of the questions Bloom will seek an answer to.
And Donovan simply is not part of that specific question.

How has that formula worked for the Pirates? Get rid of the all star and try a prospect.

But then, that is not what I am advocating at all.
In fact, I have very specifically said that Mootbaar and Walker should be traded this off-season.
Not Donovan.
Instead, I have said Donovan should move to LF, serving as insurance at both 2b and 3b through July.
Then, evaluate.
In the meanwhile, determine Donovan's interest in an extension.
Ultimately, perhaps Donovan stays long term, or perhaps he does not.
But that should be decided in July.
Strategically, that is the right decision.

I understand but Bloom apparently is shopping Donovan. If they trade Arenado who plays third base and given that Wetherholt played 100 games at SS and only 20 games at 2B. If the plan is to trade Donovan or move him to the outfield why did they having Wetherholt at SS when we already have Winn?

There are other 3bs in the world besides Arenado.

Right but why did Wetherholt play 100 games at shortstop? I don't understand the front office's plan.

Why didn’t Walker play some outfield in the minors before being thrust out there in his rookie season? Why was Gorman not given time at 2B in the minors? If Herrera is not very good at catching, why didn’t they find a better position for him?
Pretty much just how they do things in St Louis, hopefully that changes under Bloom.

Bloom was running the place in 2025. Mozeliak at the all star break said he wanted to add but instead the dumped. If there was such a thing as a reporter perhaps Bloom could be asked about that.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

Right but why did Wetherholt play 100 games at shortstop? I don't understand the front office's plan.

Well as a guess because it is assumed of you can play SS you can play 2B. What if Winn had a career ending injury? What if he is traded? Keep him at the higher value more demanding position until either he can't cut it or you are certain he isn't going to play there in the majors.

And hold on now before you say no way they trade Winn. What if he returns a high end proven ML OFer with a big bat and some control? Hey, we GOT middle infielders. We do not have a proven bat for the OF. Just saying.

As I said earlier I expect them to move JJ to 2B now and keep him there.

So they planned to use him at 2B but had him play 100 games at SS so he could step in when Winn gets a career ending injury.

Weird way to interpret what I wrote. Reread it.

[Ozziesfan41]

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

Donovan won a gold glove as a utility player, not as a 2B. He was the most serviceable defensively at multiple positions, not the best defensive second baseman. This is not to say he isn't a good defensive second baseman.

True but the debate is Wetherholt vs Donovan at second base. Wetherholt made 12 errors in 2025 mostly at shortstop. If he had made 12 errors at second base in MLB he would be tied for worst in MLB. If we do a complete dump and rebuild trying prospects to see how they do that's a repeat of last place from 3 years ago.

Actually, the debate is not about Donovan vs. Wetherholt at second base.
Rather, it is a matter of strategic priorities as Bloom begins to put his vision of the future in place.
Who will be the better bat or better glove in 2026 is not all that relevant.
Can Wetherholt and Winn be the middle infield for the next several years?
That is one of the questions Bloom will seek an answer to.
And Donovan simply is not part of that specific question.

How has that formula worked for the Pirates? Get rid of the all star and try a prospect.

But then, that is not what I am advocating at all.
In fact, I have very specifically said that Mootbaar and Walker should be traded this off-season.
Not Donovan.
Instead, I have said Donovan should move to LF, serving as insurance at both 2b and 3b through July.
Then, evaluate.
In the meanwhile, determine Donovan's interest in an extension.
Ultimately, perhaps Donovan stays long term, or perhaps he does not.
But that should be decided in July.
Strategically, that is the right decision.

I understand but Bloom apparently is shopping Donovan. If they trade Arenado who plays third base and given that Wetherholt played 100 games at SS and only 20 games at 2B. If the plan is to trade Donovan or move him to the outfield why did they having Wetherholt at SS when we already have Winn?

There are other 3bs in the world besides Arenado.

Right but why did Wetherholt play 100 games at shortstop? I don't understand the front office's plan.

Why didn’t Walker play some outfield in the minors before being thrust out there in his rookie season? Why was Gorman not given time at 2B in the minors? If Herrera is not very good at catching, why didn’t they find a better position for him?
Pretty much just how they do things in St Louis, hopefully that changes under Bloom.

Bloom was running the place in 2025. Mozeliak at the all star break said he wanted to add but instead the dumped. If there was such a thing as a reporter perhaps Bloom could be asked about that.

Good it would have been dumb to trade prospects for a Hail Mary attempt to try to squeak into the wildcard so they would be one and done then the free agents leave with getting nothing in return plus the prospects they traded would be gone also. Just would have been a typical dumb mo move. And if they kept helsley he wouldn’t have helped derail the Mets so the Mets most likely would have made the post season. If bloom called the sell at the deadline he’s smarter than mo

[ScotchMIrish]

Right but why did Wetherholt play 100 games at shortstop? I don't understand the front office's plan.

Well as a guess because it is assumed of you can play SS you can play 2B. What if Winn had a career ending injury? What if he is traded? Keep him at the higher value more demanding position until either he can't cut it or you are certain he isn't going to play there in the majors.

And hold on now before you say no way they trade Winn. What if he returns a high end proven ML OFer with a big bat and some control? Hey, we GOT middle infielders. We do not have a proven bat for the OF. Just saying.

As I said earlier I expect them to move JJ to 2B now and keep him there.

So they planned to use him at 2B but had him play 100 games at SS so he could step in when Winn gets a career ending injury.

Weird way to interpret what I wrote. Reread it.

You expect him to play 2B but they played him at SS because Winn could sustain a severe injury forcing him to retire or he could be traded. That's why they played him at SS instead of 2B when they plan to use him at 2B? I don't follow the logic. Someone should ask Bloom about that.

[ScotchMIrish]

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

Donovan won a gold glove as a utility player, not as a 2B. He was the most serviceable defensively at multiple positions, not the best defensive second baseman. This is not to say he isn't a good defensive second baseman.

True but the debate is Wetherholt vs Donovan at second base. Wetherholt made 12 errors in 2025 mostly at shortstop. If he had made 12 errors at second base in MLB he would be tied for worst in MLB. If we do a complete dump and rebuild trying prospects to see how they do that's a repeat of last place from 3 years ago.

Actually, the debate is not about Donovan vs. Wetherholt at second base.
Rather, it is a matter of strategic priorities as Bloom begins to put his vision of the future in place.
Who will be the better bat or better glove in 2026 is not all that relevant.
Can Wetherholt and Winn be the middle infield for the next several years?
That is one of the questions Bloom will seek an answer to.
And Donovan simply is not part of that specific question.

How has that formula worked for the Pirates? Get rid of the all star and try a prospect.

But then, that is not what I am advocating at all.
In fact, I have very specifically said that Mootbaar and Walker should be traded this off-season.
Not Donovan.
Instead, I have said Donovan should move to LF, serving as insurance at both 2b and 3b through July.
Then, evaluate.
In the meanwhile, determine Donovan's interest in an extension.
Ultimately, perhaps Donovan stays long term, or perhaps he does not.
But that should be decided in July.
Strategically, that is the right decision.

I understand but Bloom apparently is shopping Donovan. If they trade Arenado who plays third base and given that Wetherholt played 100 games at SS and only 20 games at 2B. If the plan is to trade Donovan or move him to the outfield why did they having Wetherholt at SS when we already have Winn?

There are other 3bs in the world besides Arenado.

Right but why did Wetherholt play 100 games at shortstop? I don't understand the front office's plan.

Why didn’t Walker play some outfield in the minors before being thrust out there in his rookie season? Why was Gorman not given time at 2B in the minors? If Herrera is not very good at catching, why didn’t they find a better position for him?
Pretty much just how they do things in St Louis, hopefully that changes under Bloom.

Bloom was running the place in 2025. Mozeliak at the all star break said he wanted to add but instead the dumped. If there was such a thing as a reporter perhaps Bloom could be asked about that.

Good it would have been dumb to trade prospects for a Hail Mary attempt to try to squeak into the wildcard so they would be one and done then the free agents leave with getting nothing in return plus the prospects they traded would be gone also. Just would have been a typical dumb mo move. And if they kept helsley he wouldn’t have helped derail the Mets so the Mets most likely would have made the post season. If bloom called the sell at the deadline he’s smarter than mo

Why then was Bloom playing Wetherholt at SS in milb when we have Winn?