Bloom will listen to interest for Donovan and Noot

[Pura Vida]

I don't see the value in trading him unless they score a huge deal. He leads by example and is beyond versatile.

[ScotchMIrish]

Wetherholt played 20 games at second base this season. He could be the next superstar or he could be the next Caglianone.

Be that as it may, it's entirely possible that if Donovan is still here next season, he might be the second best second baseman on the team. Not a sure thing, but not far-fetched either.

Wetherholt made 12 errors in 105 games at SS, 2b and 3b. Donovan made 4 errors in 100 games at 2b. I wouldn't be surprised if Arenado is traded and 3b becomes open with Wetherholt getting a look in spring training there but I doubt he will replace Donovan at 2B if Donovan is still on the team.

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

Donovan won a gold glove as a utility player, not as a 2B. He was the most serviceable defensively at multiple positions, not the best defensive second baseman. This is not to say he isn't a good defensive second baseman.

True but the debate is Wetherholt vs Donovan at second base. Wetherholt made 12 errors in 2025 mostly at shortstop. If he had made 12 errors at second base in MLB he would be tied for worst in MLB. If we do a complete dump and rebuild trying prospects to see how they do that's a repeat of last place from 3 years ago.

[Talkin' Baseball]

Be that as it may, it's entirely possible that if Donovan is still here next season, he might be the second best second baseman on the team. Not a sure thing, but not far-fetched either.

Wetherholt made 12 errors in 105 games at SS, 2b and 3b. Donovan made 4 errors in 100 games at 2b. I wouldn't be surprised if Arenado is traded and 3b becomes open with Wetherholt getting a look in spring training there but I doubt he will replace Donovan at 2B if Donovan is still on the team.

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

Donovan won a gold glove as a utility player, not as a 2B. He was the most serviceable defensively at multiple positions, not the best defensive second baseman. This is not to say he isn't a good defensive second baseman.

True but the debate is Wetherholt vs Donovan at second base. Wetherholt made 12 errors in 2025 mostly at shortstop. If he had made 12 errors at second base in MLB he would be tied for worst in MLB. If we do a complete dump and rebuild trying prospects to see how they do that's a repeat of last place from 3 years ago.

IMO, I think Wetherholt would do fine at 2B. I don't know it, I think it.

If you don't see him doing fine at 2B, what do you suggest doing with Wetherholt? He isn't going to play SS for the Cardinals anytime soon, and if he isn't a sufficient defensive 2B, he probably won't do better in the majors at a more demanding position. He doesn't have any more experience at 3B than he does at 2B. Send him back to AAA until you are sure of a spot and how he will do? Not being a smart-alec, sincerely wondering- what would you do with him?

To me 2B seems like the easiest defensive position the Cardinals might have to offer him, and I think the bat is ready. That is definitely what I would do.

[Melville]

Be that as it may, it's entirely possible that if Donovan is still here next season, he might be the second best second baseman on the team. Not a sure thing, but not far-fetched either.

Wetherholt made 12 errors in 105 games at SS, 2b and 3b. Donovan made 4 errors in 100 games at 2b. I wouldn't be surprised if Arenado is traded and 3b becomes open with Wetherholt getting a look in spring training there but I doubt he will replace Donovan at 2B if Donovan is still on the team.

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

Donovan won a gold glove as a utility player, not as a 2B. He was the most serviceable defensively at multiple positions, not the best defensive second baseman. This is not to say he isn't a good defensive second baseman.

True but the debate is Wetherholt vs Donovan at second base. Wetherholt made 12 errors in 2025 mostly at shortstop. If he had made 12 errors at second base in MLB he would be tied for worst in MLB. If we do a complete dump and rebuild trying prospects to see how they do that's a repeat of last place from 3 years ago.

Actually, the debate is not about Donovan vs. Wetherholt at second base.
Rather, it is a matter of strategic priorities as Bloom begins to put his vision of the future in place.
Who will be the better bat or better glove in 2026 is not all that relevant.
Can Wetherholt and Winn be the middle infield for the next several years?
That is one of the questions Bloom will seek an answer to.
And Donovan simply is not part of that specific question.

[Hoosier59]

Donovan shouldn’t be part of the subject of SS or 2B, he can play 3B better than Gorman or Saggese. Plus you keep his plus bat in the lineup. You don’t make the team better by simply replacing Wetherholt for Donovan. You aren’t going to get a top notch pitcher for him alone, nor a middle of the order, right handed bat.

[ecleme22]

Be that as it may, it's entirely possible that if Donovan is still here next season, he might be the second best second baseman on the team. Not a sure thing, but not far-fetched either.

Wetherholt made 12 errors in 105 games at SS, 2b and 3b. Donovan made 4 errors in 100 games at 2b. I wouldn't be surprised if Arenado is traded and 3b becomes open with Wetherholt getting a look in spring training there but I doubt he will replace Donovan at 2B if Donovan is still on the team.

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

Donovan won a gold glove as a utility player, not as a 2B. He was the most serviceable defensively at multiple positions, not the best defensive second baseman. This is not to say he isn't a good defensive second baseman.

True but the debate is Wetherholt vs Donovan at second base. Wetherholt made 12 errors in 2025 mostly at shortstop. If he had made 12 errors at second base in MLB he would be tied for worst in MLB. If we do a complete dump and rebuild trying prospects to see how they do that's a repeat of last place from 3 years ago.

As I said, you are used to Mo picking up prospects.

Donovan traded won’t return a Libby where we have to wait 6 years.

And speaking of JJ, he had a .931 ops in the minors last year.

You really think his presence at 2b will be some huge downgrade to 2025?

[ScotchMIrish]

Wetherholt made 12 errors in 105 games at SS, 2b and 3b. Donovan made 4 errors in 100 games at 2b. I wouldn't be surprised if Arenado is traded and 3b becomes open with Wetherholt getting a look in spring training there but I doubt he will replace Donovan at 2B if Donovan is still on the team.

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

Donovan won a gold glove as a utility player, not as a 2B. He was the most serviceable defensively at multiple positions, not the best defensive second baseman. This is not to say he isn't a good defensive second baseman.

True but the debate is Wetherholt vs Donovan at second base. Wetherholt made 12 errors in 2025 mostly at shortstop. If he had made 12 errors at second base in MLB he would be tied for worst in MLB. If we do a complete dump and rebuild trying prospects to see how they do that's a repeat of last place from 3 years ago.

Actually, the debate is not about Donovan vs. Wetherholt at second base.
Rather, it is a matter of strategic priorities as Bloom begins to put his vision of the future in place.
Who will be the better bat or better glove in 2026 is not all that relevant.
Can Wetherholt and Winn be the middle infield for the next several years?
That is one of the questions Bloom will seek an answer to.
And Donovan simply is not part of that specific question.

How has that formula worked for the Pirates? Get rid of the all star and try a prospect.

[ScotchMIrish]

Wetherholt made 12 errors in 105 games at SS, 2b and 3b. Donovan made 4 errors in 100 games at 2b. I wouldn't be surprised if Arenado is traded and 3b becomes open with Wetherholt getting a look in spring training there but I doubt he will replace Donovan at 2B if Donovan is still on the team.

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

Donovan won a gold glove as a utility player, not as a 2B. He was the most serviceable defensively at multiple positions, not the best defensive second baseman. This is not to say he isn't a good defensive second baseman.

True but the debate is Wetherholt vs Donovan at second base. Wetherholt made 12 errors in 2025 mostly at shortstop. If he had made 12 errors at second base in MLB he would be tied for worst in MLB. If we do a complete dump and rebuild trying prospects to see how they do that's a repeat of last place from 3 years ago.

As I said, you are used to Mo picking up prospects.

Donovan traded won’t return a Libby where we have to wait 6 years.

And speaking of JJ, he had a .931 ops in the minors last year.

You really think his presence at 2b will be some huge downgrade to 2025?

I don't know what Wetherholt will do but I know Donovan was all star and gold glove with 5th highest OPS among second basemen in MLB in 2025. Caglianone had a 1.025 OPS in milb.

[ScotchMIrish]

Wetherholt made 12 errors in 105 games at SS, 2b and 3b. Donovan made 4 errors in 100 games at 2b. I wouldn't be surprised if Arenado is traded and 3b becomes open with Wetherholt getting a look in spring training there but I doubt he will replace Donovan at 2B if Donovan is still on the team.

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

Donovan won a gold glove as a utility player, not as a 2B. He was the most serviceable defensively at multiple positions, not the best defensive second baseman. This is not to say he isn't a good defensive second baseman.

True but the debate is Wetherholt vs Donovan at second base. Wetherholt made 12 errors in 2025 mostly at shortstop. If he had made 12 errors at second base in MLB he would be tied for worst in MLB. If we do a complete dump and rebuild trying prospects to see how they do that's a repeat of last place from 3 years ago.

IMO, I think Wetherholt would do fine at 2B. I don't know it, I think it.

If you don't see him doing fine at 2B, what do you suggest doing with Wetherholt? He isn't going to play SS for the Cardinals anytime soon, and if he isn't a sufficient defensive 2B, he probably won't do better in the majors at a more demanding position. He doesn't have any more experience at 3B than he does at 2B. Send him back to AAA until you are sure of a spot and how he will do? Not being a smart-alec, sincerely wondering- what would you do with him?

To me 2B seems like the easiest defensive position the Cardinals might have to offer him, and I think the bat is ready. That is definitely what I would do.

For decades the place to hide a poor defender is corner outfield. If he can play shortstop he should be able to catch a fly fall. If he can hit MLB pitching that's what I'd do with him - or third base if Arenado is gone.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

Donovan won a gold glove as a utility player, not as a 2B. He was the most serviceable defensively at multiple positions, not the best defensive second baseman. This is not to say he isn't a good defensive second baseman.

True but the debate is Wetherholt vs Donovan at second base. Wetherholt made 12 errors in 2025 mostly at shortstop. If he had made 12 errors at second base in MLB he would be tied for worst in MLB. If we do a complete dump and rebuild trying prospects to see how they do that's a repeat of last place from 3 years ago.

Actually, the debate is not about Donovan vs. Wetherholt at second base.
Rather, it is a matter of strategic priorities as Bloom begins to put his vision of the future in place.
Who will be the better bat or better glove in 2026 is not all that relevant.
Can Wetherholt and Winn be the middle infield for the next several years?
That is one of the questions Bloom will seek an answer to.
And Donovan simply is not part of that specific question.

How has that formula worked for the Pirates? Get rid of the all star and try a prospect.

That formula has not worked well. A better math problem would be to TRY Donovan at third. Here’s a GG at utility, meaning he plays all positions well. I’m sure he’d play an adaquate third in a rebuild.

[ScotchMIrish]

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

Donovan won a gold glove as a utility player, not as a 2B. He was the most serviceable defensively at multiple positions, not the best defensive second baseman. This is not to say he isn't a good defensive second baseman.

True but the debate is Wetherholt vs Donovan at second base. Wetherholt made 12 errors in 2025 mostly at shortstop. If he had made 12 errors at second base in MLB he would be tied for worst in MLB. If we do a complete dump and rebuild trying prospects to see how they do that's a repeat of last place from 3 years ago.

Actually, the debate is not about Donovan vs. Wetherholt at second base.
Rather, it is a matter of strategic priorities as Bloom begins to put his vision of the future in place.
Who will be the better bat or better glove in 2026 is not all that relevant.
Can Wetherholt and Winn be the middle infield for the next several years?
That is one of the questions Bloom will seek an answer to.
And Donovan simply is not part of that specific question.

How has that formula worked for the Pirates? Get rid of the all star and try a prospect.

That formula has not worked well. A better math problem would be to TRY Donovan at third. Here’s a GG at utility, meaning he plays all positions well. I’m sure he’d play an adaquate third in a rebuild.

That might work but he was top notch defense and offense at 2B. What we don't know is what Wetherholt looked like at 2B and 3B in the minors and why the had him at shortstop when we have Winn. Seems odd to have him at shortstop most of the time.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

Donovan won a gold glove as a utility player, not as a 2B. He was the most serviceable defensively at multiple positions, not the best defensive second baseman. This is not to say he isn't a good defensive second baseman.

True but the debate is Wetherholt vs Donovan at second base. Wetherholt made 12 errors in 2025 mostly at shortstop. If he had made 12 errors at second base in MLB he would be tied for worst in MLB. If we do a complete dump and rebuild trying prospects to see how they do that's a repeat of last place from 3 years ago.

Actually, the debate is not about Donovan vs. Wetherholt at second base.
Rather, it is a matter of strategic priorities as Bloom begins to put his vision of the future in place.
Who will be the better bat or better glove in 2026 is not all that relevant.
Can Wetherholt and Winn be the middle infield for the next several years?
That is one of the questions Bloom will seek an answer to.
And Donovan simply is not part of that specific question.

How has that formula worked for the Pirates? Get rid of the all star and try a prospect.

That formula has not worked well. A better math problem would be to TRY Donovan at third. Here’s a GG at utility, meaning he plays all positions well. I’m sure he’d play an adaquate third in a rebuild.

That might work but he was top notch defense and offense at 2B. What we don't know is what Wetherholt looked like at 2B and 3B in the minors and why the had him at shortstop when we have Winn. Seems odd to have him at shortstop most of the time.

Those are good questions. I used Donovan due to his ability to play a better than average defense where ever he plays. If that trend were to continue, then I thought he might be able to play a reasonable third.

[ecleme22]

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

Donovan won a gold glove as a utility player, not as a 2B. He was the most serviceable defensively at multiple positions, not the best defensive second baseman. This is not to say he isn't a good defensive second baseman.

True but the debate is Wetherholt vs Donovan at second base. Wetherholt made 12 errors in 2025 mostly at shortstop. If he had made 12 errors at second base in MLB he would be tied for worst in MLB. If we do a complete dump and rebuild trying prospects to see how they do that's a repeat of last place from 3 years ago.

Actually, the debate is not about Donovan vs. Wetherholt at second base.
Rather, it is a matter of strategic priorities as Bloom begins to put his vision of the future in place.
Who will be the better bat or better glove in 2026 is not all that relevant.
Can Wetherholt and Winn be the middle infield for the next several years?
That is one of the questions Bloom will seek an answer to.
And Donovan simply is not part of that specific question.

How has that formula worked for the Pirates? Get rid of the all star and try a prospect.

That formula has not worked well. A better math problem would be to TRY Donovan at third. Here’s a GG at utility, meaning he plays all positions well. I’m sure he’d play an adaquate third in a rebuild.

Question: when Epstein began rebuilding the cubs, what was the first thing he did?

[AZ_Cardsfan]

I think a number of ppl on this forum are too fixated on how to make the 2026 the best it can be. “Let’s keep Arenado, put BD at 2b, maybe throw JJ in the outfield!”

1. Nolan doesn’t want to be here and he had a horrible 2025. Gone.
2. BD is probably thei biggest trade chip and Bloom wants to amass prospects. Gone.
3. JJ is our #1 prospect. Wherever the org wants to play him, he should be there. For a long look. Even with a few growing pains if they happen.

I do think the 2026 team can be fun. Maybe even better than 2025. But the strategy is the strategy…

Thank you. 2026 is a rebuild regardless of what some want to believe and JJ is the team prospect jewel and should be played at his best position and left alone there. I believe SS-2B are comfortable for him and since Winn is a pretty good SS play JJ at 2B.

And some will moan and cry but JJ should NOT make the opening day lineup. He should start in AAA and allow him to force the issue and hopefully gain an additional year of control.

[PacNWCardsfan2]

Most need to wrap their head around the fact that whomever they trade, the return will be prospects, most likely without a 40 man requirement. They have several that they will need to protect from rule V already. It is not going to be about 2026.
The will sign a couple of low cost FAs, most likely pitchers, to one or 2 year deals as a stop gap till they can develop pitching in house.
Expect a lot of different faces on next year's team, as the transition continues.
2026 season will be about like 2025, somewhere in the vicinity of .500. If they do better, it's a bonus.
Now this is all just my opinion, from I gleaned from the interviews and such. Others may have a different opinion, and that's cool.

Thank you for your time.

[ecleme22]

I think a number of ppl on this forum are too fixated on how to make the 2026 the best it can be. “Let’s keep Arenado, put BD at 2b, maybe throw JJ in the outfield!”

1. Nolan doesn’t want to be here and he had a horrible 2025. Gone.
2. BD is probably thei biggest trade chip and Bloom wants to amass prospects. Gone.
3. JJ is our #1 prospect. Wherever the org wants to play him, he should be there. For a long look. Even with a few growing pains if they happen.

I do think the 2026 team can be fun. Maybe even better than 2025. But the strategy is the strategy…

Thank you. 2026 is a rebuild regardless of what some want to believe and JJ is the team prospect jewel and should be played at his best position and left alone there. I believe SS-2B are comfortable for him and since Winn is a pretty good SS play JJ at 2B.

And some will moan and cry but JJ should NOT make the opening day lineup. He should start in AAA and allow him to force the issue and hopefully gain an additional year of control.

Thanks!

I know I sound like a homer, but if JJ makes the OD roster, I trust Bloom is doing it based on a long term strategy.

Fingers crossed.