Bloom will listen to interest for Donovan and Noot

[Melville]

Wait a minute. At the press conference with DeWitt I heard Bloom said no shortcuts. Now he wants to trade Donovan?

Of course. He’s not a tent pole player.

Gold glove at second base. 5th highest OPS in MLB at second base. 28 years old. You win by having better players at each position on the field.

I'd like to see who they are going to trade him for.

Even if what you say is true, going into next season he might be the second best second baseman on his own team.

Wetherholt played 20 games at second base this season. He could be the next superstar or he could be the next Caglianone.

Be that as it may, it's entirely possible that if Donovan is still here next season, he might be the second best second baseman on the team. Not a sure thing, but not far-fetched either.

Wetherholt made 12 errors in 105 games at SS, 2b and 3b. Donovan made 4 errors in 100 games at 2b. I wouldn't be surprised if Arenado is traded and 3b becomes open with Wetherholt getting a look in spring training there but I doubt he will replace Donovan at 2B if Donovan is still on the team.

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

[Melville]

Of course. He’s not a tent pole player.

Gold glove at second base. 5th highest OPS in MLB at second base. 28 years old. You win by having better players at each position on the field.

I'd like to see who they are going to trade him for.

Even if what you say is true, going into next season he might be the second best second baseman on his own team.

Wetherholt played 20 games at second base this season. He could be the next superstar or he could be the next Caglianone.

Be that as it may, it's entirely possible that if Donovan is still here next season, he might be the second best second baseman on the team. Not a sure thing, but not far-fetched either.

Wetherholt made 12 errors in 105 games at SS, 2b and 3b. Donovan made 4 errors in 100 games at 2b. I wouldn't be surprised if Arenado is traded and 3b becomes open with Wetherholt getting a look in spring training there but I doubt he will replace Donovan at 2B if Donovan is still on the team.

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

You also incorrectly advised they keep fedde and helsley until July because they would have higher trade value and help the cardinals win lol bad wrong about that

Nope.
I said months in advance exactly what Mo would do.
And I perfectly explained his rationale.
And he did precisely what I said he would do, when I said he would do it.
He wanted to "wait and see" where the team was at in the standings rather than write off the season before it began.
I said that consistently for several months before opening day
Obviously, I was correct.

Wow. I can’t believe I’m reading this complete and total lie by you Melville.
Everyone gets things wrong.
Your failure to admit you were wrong doesn’t surprise me.
But it is disappointing.

Everyone does indeed get things wrong - including, even though it is quite rare, me.
But this is not one of those times.
I know exactly what I posted.
Others were clamoring for a trade.
I correctly analyzed that Mo would be reluctant to do so.
I advised everyone DO NOT BE SURPRISED IF MO KEEPS HELSLEY AND FEDDE UNTIL JULY BECAUSE HE WILL NOT WANT TO END HIS TENURE AS A LOSER IF HE CAN POSSIBLY AVOID IT.
I know Mo better than Mo ever knew Mo (as has been proven many, many times) and I said he would hope to somehow slip into a W/C and reach the post-season one last time - and would therefore wait to see where the team stood in July before throwing in the towel.
As you know, that is exactly what happened.
Reality is, my analysis on that topic was the best ever provided by anyone, anywhere, anytime.
You should never expect anything less.
And you will rarely be disappointed.

[Bomber1]

Gold glove at second base. 5th highest OPS in MLB at second base. 28 years old. You win by having better players at each position on the field.

I'd like to see who they are going to trade him for.

Even if what you say is true, going into next season he might be the second best second baseman on his own team.

Wetherholt played 20 games at second base this season. He could be the next superstar or he could be the next Caglianone.

Be that as it may, it's entirely possible that if Donovan is still here next season, he might be the second best second baseman on the team. Not a sure thing, but not far-fetched either.

Wetherholt made 12 errors in 105 games at SS, 2b and 3b. Donovan made 4 errors in 100 games at 2b. I wouldn't be surprised if Arenado is traded and 3b becomes open with Wetherholt getting a look in spring training there but I doubt he will replace Donovan at 2B if Donovan is still on the team.

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

You also incorrectly advised they keep fedde and helsley until July because they would have higher trade value and help the cardinals win lol bad wrong about that

Nope.
I said months in advance exactly what Mo would do.
And I perfectly explained his rationale.
And he did precisely what I said he would do, when I said he would do it.
He wanted to "wait and see" where the team was at in the standings rather than write off the season before it began.
I said that consistently for several months before opening day
Obviously, I was correct.

Wow. I can’t believe I’m reading this complete and total lie by you Melville.
Everyone gets things wrong.
Your failure to admit you were wrong doesn’t surprise me.
But it is disappointing.

Everyone does indeed get things wrong - including, even though it is quite rare, me.
But this is not one of those times.
I know exactly what I posted.
Others were clamoring for a trade.
I correctly analyzed that Mo would be reluctant to do so.
I advised everyone DO NOT BE SURPRISED IF MO KEEPS HELSLEY AND FEDDE UNTIL JULY BECAUSE HE WILL NOT WANT TO END HIS TENURE AS A LOSER IF HE CAN POSSIBLY AVOID IT.
I know Mo better than Mo ever knew Mo (as has been proven many, many times) and I said he would hope to somehow slip into a W/C and reach the post-season one last time - and would therefore wait to see where the team stood in July before throwing in the towel.
As you know, that is exactly what happened.
Reality is, my analysis on that topic was the best ever provided by anyone, anywhere, anytime.
You should never expect anything less.
And you will rarely be disappointed.

I used to enjoy your posts.

Not anymore.

You are lying, plainly and simply.

You advocated for extending Helsley.

You also thought it was a great idea to give Goldschmidt a QO “because there was no way he would accept it” since he would receive several multi-year offers

And you insisted that Matz would be traded during the 2023 offseason.

You said multiple times that Dylan Carlson would have the best career among him, Bader, and O’Neill.

And you stupidly still believe Gorman is going to be a solid major league player.

Carry on I guess, but you don’t fool anyone who possesses a functioning brain.

[Ozziesfan41]

Even if what you say is true, going into next season he might be the second best second baseman on his own team.

Wetherholt played 20 games at second base this season. He could be the next superstar or he could be the next Caglianone.

Be that as it may, it's entirely possible that if Donovan is still here next season, he might be the second best second baseman on the team. Not a sure thing, but not far-fetched either.

Wetherholt made 12 errors in 105 games at SS, 2b and 3b. Donovan made 4 errors in 100 games at 2b. I wouldn't be surprised if Arenado is traded and 3b becomes open with Wetherholt getting a look in spring training there but I doubt he will replace Donovan at 2B if Donovan is still on the team.

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

You also incorrectly advised they keep fedde and helsley until July because they would have higher trade value and help the cardinals win lol bad wrong about that

Nope.
I said months in advance exactly what Mo would do.
And I perfectly explained his rationale.
And he did precisely what I said he would do, when I said he would do it.
He wanted to "wait and see" where the team was at in the standings rather than write off the season before it began.
I said that consistently for several months before opening day
Obviously, I was correct.

Wow. I can’t believe I’m reading this complete and total lie by you Melville.
Everyone gets things wrong.
Your failure to admit you were wrong doesn’t surprise me.
But it is disappointing.

Everyone does indeed get things wrong - including, even though it is quite rare, me.
But this is not one of those times.
I know exactly what I posted.
Others were clamoring for a trade.
I correctly analyzed that Mo would be reluctant to do so.
I advised everyone DO NOT BE SURPRISED IF MO KEEPS HELSLEY AND FEDDE UNTIL JULY BECAUSE HE WILL NOT WANT TO END HIS TENURE AS A LOSER IF HE CAN POSSIBLY AVOID IT.
I know Mo better than Mo ever knew Mo (as has been proven many, many times) and I said he would hope to somehow slip into a W/C and reach the post-season one last time - and would therefore wait to see where the team stood in July before throwing in the towel.
As you know, that is exactly what happened.
Reality is, my analysis on that topic was the best ever provided by anyone, anywhere, anytime.
You should never expect anything less.
And you will rarely be disappointed.

I used to enjoy your posts.

Not anymore.

You are lying, plainly and simply.

You advocated for extending Helsley.

You also thought it was a great idea to give Goldschmidt a QO “because there was no way he would accept it” since he would receive several multi-year offers

And you insisted that Matz would be traded during the 2023 offseason.

You said multiple times that Dylan Carlson would have the best career among him, Bader, and O’Neill.

And you stupidly still believe Gorman is going to be a solid major league player.

Carry on I guess, but you don’t fool anyone who possesses a functioning brain.

Don’t forget his love for Dakota Hudson when other posters brought up his bad peripheral numbers and said his success wasn’t sustainable Mel said because he’s an extreme ground ball pitcher who could defy the peripheral’s. He said arenado would be traded in the 2023 off season then at the 2023 deadline then in the 2024 offseason Was wrong every time though if he says arenado will be traded this off season he will finally be right

[ScotchMIrish]

Wait a minute. At the press conference with DeWitt I heard Bloom said no shortcuts. Now he wants to trade Donovan?

Of course. He’s not a tent pole player.

Gold glove at second base. 5th highest OPS in MLB at second base. 28 years old. You win by having better players at each position on the field.

I'd like to see who they are going to trade him for.

Even if what you say is true, going into next season he might be the second best second baseman on his own team.

Wetherholt played 20 games at second base this season. He could be the next superstar or he could be the next Caglianone.

Be that as it may, it's entirely possible that if Donovan is still here next season, he might be the second best second baseman on the team. Not a sure thing, but not far-fetched either.

Wetherholt made 12 errors in 105 games at SS, 2b and 3b. Donovan made 4 errors in 100 games at 2b. I wouldn't be surprised if Arenado is traded and 3b becomes open with Wetherholt getting a look in spring training there but I doubt he will replace Donovan at 2B if Donovan is still on the team.

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

[Melville]

Of course. He’s not a tent pole player.

Gold glove at second base. 5th highest OPS in MLB at second base. 28 years old. You win by having better players at each position on the field.

I'd like to see who they are going to trade him for.

Even if what you say is true, going into next season he might be the second best second baseman on his own team.

Wetherholt played 20 games at second base this season. He could be the next superstar or he could be the next Caglianone.

Be that as it may, it's entirely possible that if Donovan is still here next season, he might be the second best second baseman on the team. Not a sure thing, but not far-fetched either.

Wetherholt made 12 errors in 105 games at SS, 2b and 3b. Donovan made 4 errors in 100 games at 2b. I wouldn't be surprised if Arenado is traded and 3b becomes open with Wetherholt getting a look in spring training there but I doubt he will replace Donovan at 2B if Donovan is still on the team.

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

[Melville]

Even if what you say is true, going into next season he might be the second best second baseman on his own team.

Wetherholt played 20 games at second base this season. He could be the next superstar or he could be the next Caglianone.

Be that as it may, it's entirely possible that if Donovan is still here next season, he might be the second best second baseman on the team. Not a sure thing, but not far-fetched either.

Wetherholt made 12 errors in 105 games at SS, 2b and 3b. Donovan made 4 errors in 100 games at 2b. I wouldn't be surprised if Arenado is traded and 3b becomes open with Wetherholt getting a look in spring training there but I doubt he will replace Donovan at 2B if Donovan is still on the team.

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

You also incorrectly advised they keep fedde and helsley until July because they would have higher trade value and help the cardinals win lol bad wrong about that

Nope.
I said months in advance exactly what Mo would do.
And I perfectly explained his rationale.
And he did precisely what I said he would do, when I said he would do it.
He wanted to "wait and see" where the team was at in the standings rather than write off the season before it began.
I said that consistently for several months before opening day
Obviously, I was correct.

Wow. I can’t believe I’m reading this complete and total lie by you Melville.
Everyone gets things wrong.
Your failure to admit you were wrong doesn’t surprise me.
But it is disappointing.

Everyone does indeed get things wrong - including, even though it is quite rare, me.
But this is not one of those times.
I know exactly what I posted.
Others were clamoring for a trade.
I correctly analyzed that Mo would be reluctant to do so.
I advised everyone DO NOT BE SURPRISED IF MO KEEPS HELSLEY AND FEDDE UNTIL JULY BECAUSE HE WILL NOT WANT TO END HIS TENURE AS A LOSER IF HE CAN POSSIBLY AVOID IT.
I know Mo better than Mo ever knew Mo (as has been proven many, many times) and I said he would hope to somehow slip into a W/C and reach the post-season one last time - and would therefore wait to see where the team stood in July before throwing in the towel.
As you know, that is exactly what happened.
Reality is, my analysis on that topic was the best ever provided by anyone, anywhere, anytime.
You should never expect anything less.
And you will rarely be disappointed.

....You advocated for extending Helsley.....

I certainly did.
But you are confusing 2 very, very different things.
I advocated for signing Helsley to an extension following the 2023 season and again following the 2024 season.
I believe I proposed something like 4 years / 60M - which would have amounted to about 52M in salary since he was already going to earn 8.2M this past season.
That would have amounted to about 13M a year in added cost spread across 4 seasons.
Based on how he pitched for STL in 2024 and 2025, signing that extension following 2023 would have been a good move.
And that same extension after 2024 would also have been a good move - as he pitched solidly for STL before moving to NY.
Let's see what happens in the next 2 seasons.
I am confident he will prove me correct in the next 2 seasons as he did the last 2 in STL.
Now, that is an entirely different discussion than Mo's own approach to the trade deadline.
I repeatedly correctly advised everyone that Mo would hang on to assets until the trade deadline in hope of sneaking into the post season one last time as he departed the scene.
Which is exactly what happened.
So, regardless of which of these 2 very different topics we choose to address, I was unquestionably correct on both up to this point - and the next 2 years will determine if I remain correct concerning the Helsley extension advice.
Happy to clear up the confusion on your part.
That being successfully completed, I am equally happy to discuss any other of the off-topic items you mentioned - in an appropriate thread.
This one is about Donovan, Nootbaar, and who Bloom should retain or trade for 2026.

[ScotchMIrish]

Gold glove at second base. 5th highest OPS in MLB at second base. 28 years old. You win by having better players at each position on the field.

I'd like to see who they are going to trade him for.

Even if what you say is true, going into next season he might be the second best second baseman on his own team.

Wetherholt played 20 games at second base this season. He could be the next superstar or he could be the next Caglianone.

Be that as it may, it's entirely possible that if Donovan is still here next season, he might be the second best second baseman on the team. Not a sure thing, but not far-fetched either.

Wetherholt made 12 errors in 105 games at SS, 2b and 3b. Donovan made 4 errors in 100 games at 2b. I wouldn't be surprised if Arenado is traded and 3b becomes open with Wetherholt getting a look in spring training there but I doubt he will replace Donovan at 2B if Donovan is still on the team.

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

[ecleme22]

Even if what you say is true, going into next season he might be the second best second baseman on his own team.

Wetherholt played 20 games at second base this season. He could be the next superstar or he could be the next Caglianone.

Be that as it may, it's entirely possible that if Donovan is still here next season, he might be the second best second baseman on the team. Not a sure thing, but not far-fetched either.

Wetherholt made 12 errors in 105 games at SS, 2b and 3b. Donovan made 4 errors in 100 games at 2b. I wouldn't be surprised if Arenado is traded and 3b becomes open with Wetherholt getting a look in spring training there but I doubt he will replace Donovan at 2B if Donovan is still on the team.

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

I have no doubt that BD is currently the better 2b.

But the more important question is where does the org see JJ long term?

[Talkin' Baseball]

Even if what you say is true, going into next season he might be the second best second baseman on his own team.

Wetherholt played 20 games at second base this season. He could be the next superstar or he could be the next Caglianone.

Be that as it may, it's entirely possible that if Donovan is still here next season, he might be the second best second baseman on the team. Not a sure thing, but not far-fetched either.

Wetherholt made 12 errors in 105 games at SS, 2b and 3b. Donovan made 4 errors in 100 games at 2b. I wouldn't be surprised if Arenado is traded and 3b becomes open with Wetherholt getting a look in spring training there but I doubt he will replace Donovan at 2B if Donovan is still on the team.

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

Donovan won a gold glove as a utility player, not as a 2B. He was the most serviceable defensively at multiple positions, not the best defensive second baseman. This is not to say he isn't a good defensive second baseman.

[Melville]

Even if what you say is true, going into next season he might be the second best second baseman on his own team.

Wetherholt played 20 games at second base this season. He could be the next superstar or he could be the next Caglianone.

Be that as it may, it's entirely possible that if Donovan is still here next season, he might be the second best second baseman on the team. Not a sure thing, but not far-fetched either.

Wetherholt made 12 errors in 105 games at SS, 2b and 3b. Donovan made 4 errors in 100 games at 2b. I wouldn't be surprised if Arenado is traded and 3b becomes open with Wetherholt getting a look in spring training there but I doubt he will replace Donovan at 2B if Donovan is still on the team.

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

Not much difference.
I would note that I have advised retaining Donovan as security until July as insurance if things do not go as planned at 2b/3b in the first 100 games next year.
By the way, for those who put stock is various defense metrics, Donovan has rated -6 Rtot playing 2B over the past 4 years, compared to Gorman at -4 over the same 4 seasons, and -14 for Saggese over the past 2.
I think Wetherholt's glove will be fine.

[Melville]

Wetherholt played 20 games at second base this season. He could be the next superstar or he could be the next Caglianone.

Be that as it may, it's entirely possible that if Donovan is still here next season, he might be the second best second baseman on the team. Not a sure thing, but not far-fetched either.

Wetherholt made 12 errors in 105 games at SS, 2b and 3b. Donovan made 4 errors in 100 games at 2b. I wouldn't be surprised if Arenado is traded and 3b becomes open with Wetherholt getting a look in spring training there but I doubt he will replace Donovan at 2B if Donovan is still on the team.

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

I have no doubt that BD is currently the better 2b.

But the more important question is where does the org see JJ long term?

Data says your first sentence is questionable.
But your second is absolutely correct.
Zero question Bloom wants to determine of Winn/Wetherholt can man the middle infield spots for the next several years.

[ecleme22]

Be that as it may, it's entirely possible that if Donovan is still here next season, he might be the second best second baseman on the team. Not a sure thing, but not far-fetched either.

Wetherholt made 12 errors in 105 games at SS, 2b and 3b. Donovan made 4 errors in 100 games at 2b. I wouldn't be surprised if Arenado is traded and 3b becomes open with Wetherholt getting a look in spring training there but I doubt he will replace Donovan at 2B if Donovan is still on the team.

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

I have no doubt that BD is currently the better 2b.

But the more important question is where does the org see JJ long term?

Data says your first sentence is questionable.
But your second is absolutely correct.
Zero question Bloom wants to determine of Winn/Wetherholt can man the middle infield spots for the next several years.

I think a number of ppl on this forum are too fixated on how to make the 2026 the best it can be. “Let’s keep Arenado, put BD at 2b, maybe throw JJ in the outfield!”

1. Nolan doesn’t want to be here and he had a horrible 2025. Gone.
2. BD is probably thei biggest trade chip and Bloom wants to amass prospects. Gone.
3. JJ is our #1 prospect. Wherever the org wants to play him, he should be there. For a long look. Even with a few growing pains if they happen.

I do think the 2026 team can be fun. Maybe even better than 2025. But the strategy is the strategy…

[ScotchMIrish]

Wetherholt played 20 games at second base this season. He could be the next superstar or he could be the next Caglianone.

Be that as it may, it's entirely possible that if Donovan is still here next season, he might be the second best second baseman on the team. Not a sure thing, but not far-fetched either.

Wetherholt made 12 errors in 105 games at SS, 2b and 3b. Donovan made 4 errors in 100 games at 2b. I wouldn't be surprised if Arenado is traded and 3b becomes open with Wetherholt getting a look in spring training there but I doubt he will replace Donovan at 2B if Donovan is still on the team.

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

Not much difference.
I would note that I have advised retaining Donovan as security until July as insurance if things do not go as planned at 2b/3b in the first 100 games next year.
By the way, for those who put stock is various defense metrics, Donovan has rated -6 Rtot playing 2B over the past 4 years, compared to Gorman at -4 over the same 4 seasons, and -14 for Saggese over the past 2.
I think Wetherholt's glove will be fine.

You rely on an obscure analytics number and not errors or gold glove?

[ScotchMIrish]

Wetherholt played 20 games at second base this season. He could be the next superstar or he could be the next Caglianone.

Be that as it may, it's entirely possible that if Donovan is still here next season, he might be the second best second baseman on the team. Not a sure thing, but not far-fetched either.

Wetherholt made 12 errors in 105 games at SS, 2b and 3b. Donovan made 4 errors in 100 games at 2b. I wouldn't be surprised if Arenado is traded and 3b becomes open with Wetherholt getting a look in spring training there but I doubt he will replace Donovan at 2B if Donovan is still on the team.

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

I have no doubt that BD is currently the better 2b.

But the more important question is where does the org see JJ long term?

We are becoming the pirates. Dreaming about what prospects might do long term and trading away our best players.

[ecleme22]

Be that as it may, it's entirely possible that if Donovan is still here next season, he might be the second best second baseman on the team. Not a sure thing, but not far-fetched either.

Wetherholt made 12 errors in 105 games at SS, 2b and 3b. Donovan made 4 errors in 100 games at 2b. I wouldn't be surprised if Arenado is traded and 3b becomes open with Wetherholt getting a look in spring training there but I doubt he will replace Donovan at 2B if Donovan is still on the team.

Agree. I think it will all fall on if Donovan is traded or not. Arenado is going to be gone. If Donovan is traded JJ will probably play second and we we will probably be stuck watching Gorman suck at the plate and at third for another season. If they keep Donovan he will play Second Gorman will most likely will be traded and JJ will play third

Sounds likely. Not sure how much we would get in return for Gorman. Maybe he stays as a backup to fill in for injuries? Probably best to see if Wetherholt can handle MLB pitching before we stipulate to him being the man.

Which is why I have correctly advised retaining Donovan until July.
Trade Nootbaar and Walker as part of the restart.
Move Donovan to LF.
Gorman at 3b and Wetherholt at 2b.
Donovan becomes insurance for both spots.
If all is going well by July, then trade Donovan.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Since Donovan is the better defensive second baseman wouldn't you move Wetherholt to OF? Defense up the middle is one part of winning.

A very fair question.
Here is the answer.
1. The outfield is a complete disaster and one obvious way to improve it both offensively and defensively is for Donovan to replace Mootbaar.
2. STL needs to determine if Wiin/Wetherholt can be the middle infield combo offensively and defensively for the next several years - which would give the roster a good foundation to build around.
3. A high quality 2B is far more valuable than a LF - if Wetherholt can do either, 2B is clearly the smarter deployment.

Wetherholt made 12 errors at SS and 2B in 100 games. Donovan made 4 and is a Gold glove second baseman.

I'd build around one of the few strengths on the team but it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals do something different given the recent trajectory.

Winn made 24 errors in his first minor league season (2021).
14 the next.
Then 11 in 2023.
Then jumped up to 18 in his first full year in STL.
But only 3 this past season.
Good reminder that it may not be wise to make any conclusions concerning the 10 errors Wetherholt made in 2025, his first full pro season, while playing 3 different positions across 2 minor league levels.

I see. Donovan is a gold glove second baseman. We don't have to speculate about that. We have differing ideas of how to build a championship team.

I have no doubt that BD is currently the better 2b.

But the more important question is where does the org see JJ long term?

We are becoming the pirates. Dreaming about what prospects might do long term and trading away our best players.

You realize this strategy is literally done by every rebuilding team in varying degrees, right? I think you’re used to MO’s spotty prospect haul. Bloom is better.


Also, do you what’s like the pirates? Having a player like Donovan as one of our “best players.”