rbirules wrote: ↑19 Aug 2025 08:25 am
Donovan has the same amount of team control as Alcantara, but is better and cheaper, so no I wouldn't do that deal, let alone include Walker.
I do like Sandy as a target, but not at this price.
Donovan plus what.
I don't think he would trade Donovan in an Alcantara trade.
I guess that is what he was saying.
I see. So donovan alone is enough.
I think he would rather have Donovan than Alcantara.
We have an up and comer at 2nd base.
We need pitching.
I think Donovan has more value (production vs. contract status) than Alcantara currently. He's certainly going to cost less than $38.3M the next two seasons, he might not cost even half that much, and I think his production (read: fWAR) has a high chance to be on par with Alcantara's if not better. Yes, there is a slight change Sandy bounces back to CY form next year and vastly outproduces Donovan over the next two seasons, again, at a higher cost. You could also just look to sign a FA SP for two years at $19-20M AAV.
That being said, I'm not opposed to moving Donovan given our depth (namely JJ) but I just wouldn't do it in this deal. Not sure what their needs are now but I would consider moving Donovan for one of Seattle's top four SPs. However, given how unlikely it seems that ownership will spend big money this off-season I'd rather flip Donovan for prospects until ownership is ready to spend as Alcantara or Gilbert or Kirby or Woo, etc. alone isn't going to turn this team into a contender.
You're not getting Gilbert or Kirby or Woo for Hurdy Gurdy
I agree, they have more value straight up than Donovan and it seems they've solved their derth of bats problem (for the most part at least). That was just an example off the top of my head (the time for a deal with Seattle was two off-seasons ago). I can't remember his contract status (and obviously they would have to pass a physical) but Pablo Lopez has two years left on his contract, I'd consider a move for him (not necessarily Donovan straight up). I really wanted Jesus Luzardo last year but that ship has sailed when the Phillies beat us to the punch.
Again, these types of moves only make sense if ownership is going to spend to fill out the rest of the roster otherwise it's a half measure that makes no sense. Just trade Donovan for a longer term player if they aren't going to spend in that case.
rbirules wrote: ↑19 Aug 2025 08:25 am
Donovan has the same amount of team control as Alcantara, but is better and cheaper, so no I wouldn't do that deal, let alone include Walker.
I do like Sandy as a target, but not at this price.
Donovan plus what.
I don't think he would trade Donovan in an Alcantara trade.
I guess that is what he was saying.
I see. So donovan alone is enough.
I think he would rather have Donovan than Alcantara.
We have an up and comer at 2nd base.
We need pitching.
I think Donovan has more value (production vs. contract status) than Alcantara currently. He's certainly going to cost less than $38.3M the next two seasons, he might not cost even half that much, and I think his production (read: fWAR) has a high chance to be on par with Alcantara's if not better. Yes, there is a slight change Sandy bounces back to CY form next year and vastly outproduces Donovan over the next two seasons, again, at a higher cost. You could also just look to sign a FA SP for two years at $19-20M AAV.
That being said, I'm not opposed to moving Donovan given our depth (namely JJ) but I just wouldn't do it in this deal. Not sure what their needs are now but I would consider moving Donovan for one of Seattle's top four SPs. However, given how unlikely it seems that ownership will spend big money this off-season I'd rather flip Donovan for prospects until ownership is ready to spend as Alcantara or Gilbert or Kirby or Woo, etc. alone isn't going to turn this team into a contender.
You're not getting Gilbert or Kirby or Woo for Hurdy Gurdy
I agree, they have more value straight up than Donovan and it seems they've solved their derth of bats problem (for the most part at least). That was just an example off the top of my head (the time for a deal with Seattle was two off-seasons ago). I can't remember his contract status (and obviously they would have to pass a physical) but Pablo Lopez has two years left on his contract, I'd consider a move for him (not necessarily Donovan straight up). I really wanted Jesus Luzardo last year but that ship has sailed when the Phillies beat us to the punch.
Again, these types of moves only make sense if ownership is going to spend to fill out the rest of the roster otherwise it's a half measure that makes no sense. Just trade Donovan for a longer term player if they aren't going to spend in that case.
Yeah, I just get the best possible young player for BD. Doesn’t have to be a pitcher
rbirules wrote: ↑19 Aug 2025 09:08 am
Again, these types of moves only make sense if ownership is going to spend to fill out the rest of the roster otherwise it's a half measure that makes no sense. Just trade Donovan for a longer term player if they aren't going to spend in that case.
Yeah, I just get the best possible young player for BD. Doesn’t have to be a pitcher
Yeah, I'm on board with that. Going after a specific need only makes sense if you plan to spend to fill the other holes. If we're still rebuilding, re-whatever-ing in 2026 then the specific return doesn't really matter, what matters is not wasting the last two years of a valuable asset on a team going nowhere when you can turn it into a longer term asset.
rbirules wrote: ↑19 Aug 2025 09:08 am
Again, these types of moves only make sense if ownership is going to spend to fill out the rest of the roster otherwise it's a half measure that makes no sense. Just trade Donovan for a longer term player if they aren't going to spend in that case.
Yeah, I just get the best possible young player for BD. Doesn’t have to be a pitcher
Yeah, I'm on board with that. Going after a specific need only makes sense if you plan to spend to fill the other holes. If we're still rebuilding, re-whatever-ing in 2026 then the specific return doesn't really matter, what matters is not wasting the last two years of a valuable asset on a team going nowhere when you can turn it into a longer term asset.
I think this team has been so starved for top-end pitching talent and we have many recent examples like SEA and LAD showing you can never have too much, that they really need to try to get pitching for their arbitration-level position players if at all possible.
3dender wrote: ↑19 Aug 2025 08:29 am
Alcantara doesn't really align with when this team may be good again, unless they extend him through like 2030 (which I wouldn't be opposed to).
I'd do one of Donovan/Noot/Burly for him, plus maybe a Crooks-level prospect. That would serve to clear logjams on the position player side as well as address a need.
I don't expect Miami would let him go for that little though.
So, you think my offer is lite.
Rbi thinks it's way too much.
Who knows?
rbirules wrote: ↑19 Aug 2025 08:25 am
Donovan has the same amount of team control as Alcantara, but is better and cheaper, so no I wouldn't do that deal, let alone include Walker.
I do like Sandy as a target, but not at this price.
I would like to see the Cards acquire Alcantara but not at that price. By taking Alcantara, there is some risk that he will not regain his effectiveness and is the risk worth the size of his contract. Maybe another proposed exchange would work.
3dender wrote: ↑19 Aug 2025 08:29 am
Alcantara doesn't really align with when this team may be good again, unless they extend him through like 2030 (which I wouldn't be opposed to).
I'd do one of Donovan/Noot/Burly for him, plus maybe a Crooks-level prospect. That would serve to clear logjams on the position player side as well as address a need.
I don't expect Miami would let him go for that little though.
RBI thinks Donovan is too rich alone. I think. You add a prospect and say it’s still too low.
I’m muffed.
I think Donovan is too much. Take a look, 2023, his numbers fell, easy to say it was due to injury but when did the injury happen? He continued pitching until Sept 23 (looking at his game log). At no time in 2023 did he pitch like an ace. He'd have a good game followed by a few bad ones. Then surgery, rehab in 2024. 2025 worse then 2023 and it didn't get better. If he had improved (or does improve consistently) it would be different. To me, he looks like a pitcher who is still hurt. I say offer them choices from Saggese or Noot, one of the catchers, and maybe a low minor league wild card or two.
A big No
That Alcantra ship has sailed and if going to trade Donovan it has to be for controllable player to fit in this rebuild
He is one of the few vets worth anything
rbirules wrote: ↑19 Aug 2025 08:25 am
Donovan has the same amount of team control as Alcantara, but is better and cheaper, so no I wouldn't do that deal, let alone include Walker.
I do like Sandy as a target, but not at this price.
I suspect the reason Alcantara didn't move in late July is because Miami couldn't get what they wanted for him. He has shown the ability to go deep in pitch count and flashes of his past brilliance but on the bad starts he is really bad.
I wouldn't do Donovan for him but it would be interesting next April to see if he has fully returned.
What people aren’t taking into account is how much Donovan’s numbers have went down since his initial toe injury. Anybody that knows anything about hitting will tell you how key the lower half is. Maybe Donnie slumps anyway but it’s too much coincidence that the two things coincide. If Donnie would have kept putting up his All-Star numbers, nobody would even be talking about trading him! Well I take that back, there would be still be few on here that would!
Also, if the marlins do trade Sandy it won’t be for any players who are close to free agency, or who make much money. That fact escapes some people too.
