So haters, how exactly do we quantify if moving Nado down worked?

[Ike Hammett]

Are we going to do better than 12- 2 the next few weeks? Outscore our opponents more? Build better team chemistry? What?

Are you really arguing he should bat 4th?

I want to know what all these genius fans think quantifies if moving him worked. Can you answer the question?

[Ike Hammett]

Are we going to do better than 12- 2 the next few weeks? Outscore our opponents more? Build better team chemistry? What?

It's pretty easy actually... you see how many runs Scott, Noot, Winn and Donovan score over the next few weeks, and compare it to the last few weeks.

So the point of the game is who gets the most rbi out of the clean up spot? How would you know if Herrera wouldn't of got those RBI in the 6th spot and how it effects runs scored lower in the lineup? And even if your obvious truth is correct and they lose more, is that a big win for you?

The point of the game is get your best batters more at bats not fewer. I mean oli could bat the pitcher instead of
The DH and they may play well in a small sample size but that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to continue to do it. Even Arenado saw what you and oli couldn’t see and that’s he wasn’t getting the job done

You are proving my exact point. Arenado is a high priced big time hitter that has put up huge numbers in his career that we got to hit in the middle of the lineup. Like why would you put a pitcher hitting there when you signed a future hall of famer to a big contract to do it? You honestly think he wanted to move and did it on his own without any pressure from the haters?

[Ozziesfan41]

Are we going to do better than 12- 2 the next few weeks? Outscore our opponents more? Build better team chemistry? What?

Are you really arguing he should bat 4th?

I want to know what all these genius fans think quantifies if moving him worked. Can you answer the question?

Ask oli hes the genius who moved him I don’t know why you’re whining about what fans who have no control over it think oli made the move and it was a good one since arenado himself said he hasn’t felt like he could contribute like he should in the four spot for a while and doesn’t know if he will be able to again. I mean you’re arguing that a guy who he himself knows shouldn’t be batting fourth and doesn’t feel like he can contribute like he should batting fourth should continue batting fourth talk about doubling down on dumb

[Ike Hammett]

What are you hoping to get out of this thread and why is it only the "haters" that can give it to you?

I hope to get people to stop hating on players and be more respectful towards people. And seeing more people stand up against the online hate, especially when their hate is destroying things I like. The downtown of St. Louis, The Cardinals, this country, these haters are going to destroy them all eventually if nobody ever stands up to it.

[Ike Hammett]

Are we going to do better than 12- 2 the next few weeks? Outscore our opponents more? Build better team chemistry? What?

Are you really arguing he should bat 4th?

I want to know what all these genius fans think quantifies if moving him worked. Can you answer the question?

Ask oli hes the genius who moved him I don’t know why you’re whining about what fans who have no control over it think oli made the move and it was a good one since arenado himself said he hasn’t felt like he could contribute like he should in the four spot for a while and doesn’t know if he will be able to again. I mean you’re arguing that a guy who he himself knows shouldn’t be batting fourth and doesn’t feel like he can contribute like he should batting fourth should continue batting fourth talk about doubling down on dumb

No, I don't buy that for a second. I believe it was a preventative public relations action taken by a team struggling with support and attendance trying to appease the small but loud group of haters that are never happy. They did it so things didn't get worse. Just like the POBO getting replaced. When you all keep doing this kind of stuff you are going to turn this organization into teams like the Pirates, Reds etc. I can already start to see it transform. That's all on you people.

[Ozziesfan41]

Are we going to do better than 12- 2 the next few weeks? Outscore our opponents more? Build better team chemistry? What?

Are you really arguing he should bat 4th?

I want to know what all these genius fans think quantifies if moving him worked. Can you answer the question?

Ask oli hes the genius who moved him I don’t know why you’re whining about what fans who have no control over it think oli made the move and it was a good one since arenado himself said he hasn’t felt like he could contribute like he should in the four spot for a while and doesn’t know if he will be able to again. I mean you’re arguing that a guy who he himself knows shouldn’t be batting fourth and doesn’t feel like he can contribute like he should batting fourth should continue batting fourth talk about doubling down on dumb

No, I don't buy that for a second. I believe it was a preventative public relations action taken by a team struggling with support and attendance trying to appease the small but loud group of haters that are never happy. They did it so things didn't get worse. Just like the POBO getting replaced. When you all keep doing this kind of stuff you are going to turn this organization into teams like the Pirates, Reds etc. I can already start to see it transform. That's all on you people.

That’s just dumb. So you’re saying the cardinals are so incompetent they are swayed by what fans think? lol if fans could sway them Mo and oli would have been fired. You are completely out of touch with reality if you think fans had anything to do with this and again Arenado himself said it hes not going to lie and say he doesn’t feel he can contribute from the fourth spot like he should hasn’t felt like he could in a while and doesn’t know if he ever will again no way he says that if it’s not true add in that the results from Last season and this season show he can’t contribute like he used to and well you’re grasping at straws and trying desperately to move goal posts around

[Ike Hammett]

Are we going to do better than 12- 2 the next few weeks? Outscore our opponents more? Build better team chemistry? What?

I think the real question is, what is your obsession with Arenado and your inability to deal with the fact he's no longer an MVP-caliber player?

And why are you taking your childlike disdain out on other posters who can simply see the situation for the reality it is?

Nobody pushed harder on sites like this to get Arenado to St. Louis, I believe the team read some of my comments and did what they could to get him here and he chose to come here. I owe a certain loyalty and responsibility to push back against people that bash on them. I think if people go out of their way to do what you like and want you must defend it. I have a real dislike to a lot of the negativity and hate of a lot of these posters. Not just Arenado but they way they all bashed on Matt Carpenter, Dexter Fowler, Mikolas, Kolten Wong, Goldy, Shildt ownership and management etc.

Whiz on these spoiled brats who never shut up about how rough they have it as Cards "fans". I really don't care if Nado gets moved down in the batting order, that's part of the game and the way things work. I have issues with the way these guys get treated by weak anonymous haters and will return some back.

It's a weird take.

Pointing out Nado's dissipating power is not hatred..rather it's observation. An observation apparently shared by Nado himself.

Again...it's a weird take on the situation.

Do you honestly think Nado just came to the conclusion yesterday or today that he was performing offensively as an average league player? You think the manager, coaching staff and front office just noticed it? They don't need people with bad attitudes constantly pointing this out. Pretty sure they can make those observations as well and do. I guess we just have a huge difference of opinion on that and what is weird. They know the situation and have made a decision on how to handle it by trying to have him play through the no peak performance at clean up. To continue to bash on it day in and day out is not an observation, it's more like passive aggressive hate towards a manger, owner and front office disguised as observation.

[Ike Hammett]

Are we going to do better than 12- 2 the next few weeks? Outscore our opponents more? Build better team chemistry? What?

How's 11 runs through 7 looking?

Looks good to me and like some of our other games during this hot streak. So can you answer the original question?

I doubt if we'll do better than 12-2. But that's largely irrelevant. The question you should've asked is will the Cards offense improve with Nado hitting 6th vs 4th and will we see more production out of the cleanup spot without Nado hitting there.

You see...the 12-2 record is also a reflection on the pitching as well as the strength of schedule.

And you don't believe the production levels of Nado hitting 6th vs 4th or out of the cleanup spot without Nado is a reflection of pitching (other teams) and strength of schedule? Like another poster stated there are just way to many variables to quantify if this is better. The best way I can quantify it is by how well the team is performing. That's wins. If it isn't broke don't mess with it. And for what? If they were 14-19 go ahead, not when you are on a hot streak and right in the mix. For all we know this might mess with his head and tell the whole world he is no good and the team has lost confidence in him etc.

[Ike Hammett]

Are we going to do better than 12- 2 the next few weeks? Outscore our opponents more? Build better team chemistry? What?

I don’t understand what the big deal is with this. It is something that has happened throughout the history of the game. Stan Musial moved down in the order as he got older and his skills slipped. It’s not some grave insult.

And it’s not as if this is some out of nowhere decision. Arenado has pretty steadily declined offensively, particularly in regards to power, in his two years previous to this. It’s looking like this year is going to be a continuation of this. It’s not an insult to hit him 6th. Especially when you have others on the team that appear to be ascending and are playing much better this year.

Right! What's the big deal with where he is hitting? Cards are playing really good baseball doing a lot of winning and scoring. Why is every other post about how they need to fix things?

So...you're saying teams should stop attempting to improve?

That's the point of this whole thread, is this an improvement? How so? Heck yeah we should try to improve, that's why we went out and got a superstar MVP big money monster for the middle of the lineup. It's why we have professional coaches and staff to improve. Improvement to me is our stud starts hitting better not moving him down. I don't know how this is an improvement, certainly nobody can quantify it very well or at all.

[Ike Hammett]

Are we going to do better than 12- 2 the next few weeks? Outscore our opponents more? Build better team chemistry? What?

Are you really arguing he should bat 4th?

I want to know what all these genius fans think quantifies if moving him worked. Can you answer the question?

Ask oli hes the genius who moved him I don’t know why you’re whining about what fans who have no control over it think oli made the move and it was a good one since arenado himself said he hasn’t felt like he could contribute like he should in the four spot for a while and doesn’t know if he will be able to again. I mean you’re arguing that a guy who he himself knows shouldn’t be batting fourth and doesn’t feel like he can contribute like he should batting fourth should continue batting fourth talk about doubling down on dumb

No, I don't buy that for a second. I believe it was a preventative public relations action taken by a team struggling with support and attendance trying to appease the small but loud group of haters that are never happy. They did it so things didn't get worse. Just like the POBO getting replaced. When you all keep doing this kind of stuff you are going to turn this organization into teams like the Pirates, Reds etc. I can already start to see it transform. That's all on you people.

That’s just dumb. So you’re saying the cardinals are so incompetent they are swayed by what fans think? lol if fans could sway them Mo and oli would have been fired. You are completely out of touch with reality if you think fans had anything to do with this and again Arenado himself said it hes not going to lie and say he doesn’t feel he can contribute from the fourth spot like he should hasn’t felt like he could in a while and doesn’t know if he ever will again no way he says that if it’s not true add in that the results from Last season and this season show he can’t contribute like he used to and well you’re grasping at straws and trying desperately to move goal posts around

I'm certainly not stating the Cardinals are incompetent, but absolutely they are swayed by what their customers think and do. Even the owners son came out and basically said if you don't show up they can't spend and you are creating a downward spiral of exactly what you claim you don't want. Yup, that's when you start becoming a way weaker team.

I think you all have chased Mr. Mo out, chased Matheny out, have been trying to push Marmol out until recently that has cooled, which he doesn't want to come back so he apeases you by moving Nado. Bash, bash, bash, hate, hate, hate it's all you spoiled clowns do. You all wanted big name superstars, winning teams and big money spent, you all don't appreciate it and want to boycott exactly what you wanted. Hope you all come to your senses and figure out what you want. You got your way, he is 6th now. So can you all quit being such haters? Or will you just all come up with something new to bash on next time they lose a game?

Goal posts? What goal posts?

[2ninr]

I can see the op is being intentionally obtuse. There's no real point in arguing. I will say that maybe no production from the player in question for an extended period of time, than scoring 1 run 3 of the previous 4 games contributed to the move. As a side note, I thought they were leaving him there for an inappropriate length of time to try and build his value. Which is probably true. Nice to finally see them make a move based solely on winning and not making money.

[Wattage]

Are we going to do better than 12- 2 the next few weeks? Outscore our opponents more? Build better team chemistry? What?

You were so upset saying it should t happen, rhat now that arenado himself said you are wrong and to move himself down, you knkw are throwing this temper tantrum.

[Wattage]

Are we going to do better than 12- 2 the next few weeks? Outscore our opponents more? Build better team chemistry? What?

I think the real question is, what is your obsession with Arenado and your inability to deal with the fact he's no longer an MVP-caliber player?

And why are you taking your childlike disdain out on other posters who can simply see the situation for the reality it is?

Nobody pushed harder on sites like this to get Arenado to St. Louis, I believe the team read some of my comments and did what they could to get him here and he chose to come here. I owe a certain loyalty and responsibility to push back against people that bash on them. I think if people go out of their way to do what you like and want you must defend it. I have a real dislike to a lot of the negativity and hate of a lot of these posters. Not just Arenado but they way they all bashed on Matt Carpenter, Dexter Fowler, Mikolas, Kolten Wong, Goldy, Shildt ownership and management etc.

Whiz on these spoiled brats who never shut up about how rough they have it as Cards "fans". I really don't care if Nado gets moved down in the batting order, that's part of the game and the way things work. I have issues with the way these guys get treated by weak anonymous haters and will return some back.

Oh, so youre trying this sctick. Mehlville does it better than you.

And obvious you are just trolling or you really do care. Thus this thread

[RamFan08NY]

Any thread that uses the word "haters" when talking about a lineup change loses all credibility as far as I'm concerned.

That's the younger generations mentality. If someone disagrees, they're labeled a "hater". I understand, adult conversations can be tough for some.

[3dender]

What are you hoping to get out of this thread and why is it only the "haters" that can give it to you?

I hope to get people to stop hating on players and be more respectful towards people. And seeing more people stand up against the online hate, especially when their hate is destroying things I like. The downtown of St. Louis, The Cardinals, this country, these haters are going to destroy them all eventually if nobody ever stands up to it.

So by being belligerent and mocking and a troll, you hope to "get people to be more respectful"?

Have you considered that you yourself are part of "the online hate"?

Oh and how many runs did they score last night? And how many starters besides Nado didn't get a hit?

[Jatalk]

Are we going to do better than 12- 2 the next few weeks? Outscore our opponents more? Build better team chemistry? What?

Are you really arguing he should bat 4th?

I want to know what all these genius fans think quantifies if moving him worked. Can you answer the question?

You say “worked” in past tense. First it is too early to fully evaluate. But the evaluation is simple. Production out of the 4 hole will tell the story. Slugging, HR’s, RBI’s, etc. Doesn’t take a genius. Sorry you’re struggling.