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riff raff wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 15:32 pm Simp / Troll alert

Cranny wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 15:09 pm

OldRed wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 13:58 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 13:36 pm

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 13:24 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 13:18 pm

OldRed wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 12:58 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 12:53 pm

OldRed wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 12:47 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 12:29 pm

OldRed wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 10:58 am

Cranny wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 07:29 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 07:20 am

Who. Who have we drafted then developed into a household name. Have we forgotten them. Who again?

Gee, I don’t know, SB. Maybe guys like Wong, Wacha, Gonzalez, DeJong, Helsley, Hudson, Gallen, Edman, Winn, Burleson, Herrera, Nootbaar, etc. To name a few.

That is a poor list, just name a few. Of that list Winn is about the only Cardinal to have a real chance to be a star. Herrera and Burleson on the outside with no real place to play in the field.

You don't think Helsley was a star? In 2024 he led MLB in saves. You don't think Gallen became a star? He won the Cy Young.

Helsley will be playing for his third team in two years. Gallen did not win a Cy Young with the Cardinals. This organization has been very poor at developing star quality players and then keeping them in the last 10 years. Defend Mo all you want, I'm so glad he is gone. One good season does make a player a star.

I don't "defend Mo". I look at the facts and present them. Some could care less - they go with whatever their bias is.

I follow facts as much as you, I just see them in a different shade of Cardinal red.

Paul Goldschmidt goes from an OPS of .981 to an OPS of .716 over 24 months?
Nolan Arenado goes from an OPS of .891 to an OPS of .666 over 36 months?
Jordan Walker goes from an OPS of .787 to an OPS of .584 over 24 months?
Nolan Gorman goes from an OPS of .805 to an OPS of .666 over 24 months?
Takoah Roby goes down with TJ?
Tink Hence is injured?
Sem Robberse goes down with TJ?
Quinn Mathews loses his control after being named Minor League Pitcher of the Year?

Did any CT poster predict any of those things, Red?

What does any of this got to do with drafting developing and transition to ML. We do two of these well. Thus been noted. Transition no.

We have not produced a household name in over a decade. About as long as it’s been since our last WS appearance.

And where have we normally drafted, SB? Household names generally come from the top 10 picks in the draft. Up until the last 2 years, how many times have we had a top 10 draft pick this century.

Not true.

Of course it's true. Take the time to check it out.

WLTFE wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 15:31 pm Didn't read it. .is the liar still claiming he has me on ignore?

OldRed wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 16:40 pm

WLTFE wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 15:31 pm Didn't read it. .is the liar still claiming he has me on ignore?

It has gotten comical for sure. Of course he reads every post you make. He never put you on ignore.

I believe he spends his entire day on Cards Talk.

OldRed wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 16:40 pm

WLTFE wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 15:31 pm Didn't read it. .is the liar still claiming he has me on ignore?

It has gotten comical for sure. Of course he reads every post you make. He never put you on ignore.

I believe he spends his entire day on Cards Talk.

OldRed wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 16:40 pm

WLTFE wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 15:31 pm Didn't read it. .is the liar still claiming he has me on ignore?

It has gotten comical for sure. Of course he reads every post you make. He never put you on ignore.

I believe he spends his entire day on Cards Talk.

OldRed wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 16:40 pm

WLTFE wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 15:31 pm Didn't read it. .is the liar still claiming he has me on ignore?

It has gotten comical for sure. Of course he reads every post you make. He never put you on ignore.

I believe he spends his entire day on Cards Talk.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:20 am This team is sorely lacking in power, they have two Gold Glove caliber fielders who aren't good offensive players already in M. Winn & VSII.

What they need is a powerhitter or two (good luck finding one when BDWJr isn't spending any real money for a few years), not more glove only players.

zuck698 wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 16:58 pm

OldRed wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 16:40 pm

WLTFE wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 15:31 pm Didn't read it. .is the liar still claiming he has me on ignore?

It has gotten comical for sure. Of course he reads every post you make. He never put you on ignore.

I believe he spends his entire day on Cards Talk.

Red, do you think he will he admit that he is wrong about stars only coming from the top 10?

zuck698 wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 16:58 pm

OldRed wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 16:40 pm

WLTFE wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 15:31 pm Didn't read it. .is the liar still claiming he has me on ignore?

It has gotten comical for sure. Of course he reads every post you make. He never put you on ignore.

I believe he spends his entire day on Cards Talk.

Red, do you think he will he admit that he is wrong about stars only coming from the top 10?

Cranny wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 21:00 pm

zuck698 wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 16:58 pm

OldRed wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 16:40 pm

WLTFE wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 15:31 pm Didn't read it. .is the liar still claiming he has me on ignore?

It has gotten comical for sure. Of course he reads every post you make. He never put you on ignore.

I believe he spends his entire day on Cards Talk.

Red, do you think he will he admit that he is wrong about stars only coming from the top 10?

It's actually been posted on here many times that one of the problems the Cardinals have in drafting future
"All Stars" is that they historically have drafted toward the end of the 1st round. It's the penalty to be paid for
having winning season after winning season.

zuck698 wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 21:06 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 21:00 pm

zuck698 wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 16:58 pm

OldRed wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 16:40 pm

WLTFE wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 15:31 pm Didn't read it. .is the liar still claiming he has me on ignore?

It has gotten comical for sure. Of course he reads every post you make. He never put you on ignore.

I believe he spends his entire day on Cards Talk.

Red, do you think he will he admit that he is wrong about stars only coming from the top 10?

It's actually been posted on here many times that one of the problems the Cardinals have in drafting future
"All Stars" is that they historically have drafted toward the end of the 1st round. It's the penalty to be paid for
having winning season after winning season.

Cranny I will post this again as obviously you didn't read it or you are just being obtuse.


Of course it's true. Take the time to check it out.

This isn't hockey Cranny. If it was I would agree with you. But stars for the MLB come from various rounds, not just top 10 picks. Some recent examples: Mookie Betts 5th, Semien 6th, DeGrom 9th, J.D. Martinex 20th, etc. Another example is that 30 of the 54 All-Stars in 2021 were taken in the 2nd round or later. You are just plain wrong here on your stance!

You are wrong in your statement that only stars come from the top ten in the draft. Are you standing by that statement?

Cranny wrote: ↑14 Dec 2025 07:58 am

zuck698 wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 21:06 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 21:00 pm

zuck698 wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 16:58 pm

OldRed wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 16:40 pm

WLTFE wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 15:31 pm Didn't read it. .is the liar still claiming he has me on ignore?

It has gotten comical for sure. Of course he reads every post you make. He never put you on ignore.

I believe he spends his entire day on Cards Talk.

Red, do you think he will he admit that he is wrong about stars only coming from the top 10?

It's actually been posted on here many times that one of the problems the Cardinals have in drafting future
"All Stars" is that they historically have drafted toward the end of the 1st round. It's the penalty to be paid for
having winning season after winning season.

Cranny I will post this again as obviously you didn't read it or you are just being obtuse.


Of course it's true. Take the time to check it out.

This isn't hockey Cranny. If it was I would agree with you. But stars for the MLB come from various rounds, not just top 10 picks. Some recent examples: Mookie Betts 5th, Semien 6th, DeGrom 9th, J.D. Martinex 20th, etc. Another example is that 30 of the 54 All-Stars in 2021 were taken in the 2nd round or later. You are just plain wrong here on your stance!

You are wrong in your statement that only stars come from the top ten in the draft. Are you standing by that statement?

Google it, Zuck. "Most elite MLB players are picked very high in the draft." Of course there are many exceptions, but it's a general rule.

Cranny wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 12:29 pm

OldRed wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 10:58 am

Cranny wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 07:29 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 07:20 am

Cranny wrote: ↑12 Dec 2025 15:44 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑12 Dec 2025 14:13 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑12 Dec 2025 13:29 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑12 Dec 2025 10:56 am

Cranny wrote: ↑12 Dec 2025 10:48 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑12 Dec 2025 10:21 am

Cranny wrote: ↑12 Dec 2025 10:06 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑12 Dec 2025 08:40 am

Because Bloom has been working on it and fixed it over the last two years, but of course you knew that but still have to be a toady footstool for Mo.

Well, let's see Rock. The Springfield Cardinals had a terrific season in 2025. They were 88-50. Four key plyers on that team were Leo Bernal Josh Baez, Ixan Henderson, and Brysen Mautz. Bernal and Baez came into the organization in 2021. Bernal just won the minor league Gold Glove Award. Mautz was drafted in 2022. Mautz was drafted in 2023. Both Henderson and Mautz had ERAs in the 2s as starters. Let's see, who was the POBO when those players were selected?

Again

Bloom has been repairing Mo's broken farm system for the past two years, what don't you understand?

That's a nothing answer, Rock. Two different things - bringing players into the system and developing those players.
I agree that the development needed to be improved, and it's happening. But my question to you was -
who was the POBO when those 4 players were brought into the system?

Huh?

The minor league system has made it's jump in the ratings thanks to the great work Bloom did rebuilding/staffing the minor league system that was a complete and utter mess under Mo.

And he also had a hand in the past two drafts.

If you want to keep your head buried in the sand when it comes to Mo, then fine.

But the majority of Cardinals fans realize he's the reason (along w/BDWJr) the franchise finds itself in the hole they're now in.

One last thing, Rock. I very carefully selected those Springfield players because they were brought in before the last 2 drafts.

And they're lucky to have had the benefit of TWO YEARS under C. Bloom's player development system, any success they have will be to hsi staffs credit............NOT MO's.

And what about all the players the system has drafted and developed well over the years Mo was in charge? Have you forgotten those?

Who. Who have we drafted then developed into a household name. Have we forgotten them. Who again?

Gee, I don’t know, SB. Maybe guys like Wong, Wacha, Gonzalez, DeJong, Helsley, Hudson, Gallen, Edman, Winn, Burleson, Herrera, Nootbaar, etc. To name a few.

That is a poor list, just name a few. Of that list Winn is about the only Cardinal to have a real chance to be a star. Herrera and Burleson on the outside with no real place to play in the field.

You don't think Helsley was a star? In 2024 he led MLB in saves. You don't think Gallen became a star? He won the Cy Young.

ClassicO wrote: ↑13 Dec 2025 19:05 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 10:20 am This team is sorely lacking in power, they have two Gold Glove caliber fielders who aren't good offensive players already in M. Winn & VSII.

What they need is a powerhitter or two (good luck finding one when BDWJr isn't spending any real money for a few years), not more glove only players.

+1.
This team needs offense! As I've posted a number of times - the top offenses, not the top pitching staffs or defense, have won the World Series the past 10+ years. The average winner the last 3 years has been #3 in offense. The Cards were #1 in the NL in 2011 (pre-DH in NL) and #5 in MLB.

10-years - WS winner rank on offense (runs scored):
2025 - #2 LA
2024 - #2 LA
2023 - #3 Rangers
2022 - #6 Astros
2021- #7 Braves
2020- #1 LA
2019 - #6 Nats
2018 - #1 Red Sox
2017 - #1 Astros
2016 - #3 Cubs

Pitching
2025 - #14 -Dodgers
2024 - #13 -Dodgers
2023 -#13 Rangers
2022- #2 Astros
2021- #7 - Braves
2020- #1 Dodgers
2019 - #9 Nats
2018 -#6 Red Sox
2017 -#9 Astros
2016 -#1 Cubs
2015 - #10 KC