STLtoday.com

Posted: **30 May 2025 22:20 pm**

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑30 May 2025 12:39 pm
ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑30 May 2025 11:49 am
Ike Hammett wrote: ↑30 May 2025 11:32 am
Monsieur De Treville wrote: ↑30 May 2025 08:02 am
Ike Hammett wrote: ↑29 May 2025 16:00 pm
Bomber1 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 15:19 pm
Ike Hammett wrote: ↑29 May 2025 13:03 pm
desertrat23 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 12:31 pm
Ike Hammett wrote: ↑29 May 2025 12:12 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 11:46 am
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 11:36 am So it's not worth going to watch a team that's 32-24 so far?
90 percent of the fan base lives far from STL. Me- 800 miles. What are we supposed to do to show fan support in your estimation.
Move to downtown St. Louis, go to all the games, party at ballpark village, have tons of fun rooting for the club with other like minded people in baseball heaven and be loyal to what provides it. Some of us who have are living the best way any baseball fan can.

The least you can probably do is not bash on the club
“Loyal to what provides it?”

DO NOT QUESTION DEAR LEADER!!!
Don't try to frame that as some kind of a cult thing. That's ridiculous! The Cardinals support the community and their fans just as much (if not more) than they get in return. Busch Stadium and the surrounding facilities is my favorite place on earth and I have been to just about all the places worth going to. Nothing wrong with tipping the cap to the people who built it and run it. THEY DO IT FOR US! The least we can do is appreciate it, support it and be loyal to the folks that provide it.

It's one of the big problems with society, you spoiled rotten entitled brats are never happy and too cool to acknowledge anything, even when it is what you want and ask for. Don't do that, say thanks and have fun, try to get along and support the community. You're completely illogical.
You are an idiot plainly and simply.

“THEY DO IT FOR US!”

Yes the fact that their $100 million investment is now worth 2.5 BILLION certainly proves that ownership is only “in it for the fans.”

What a dolt!
That doesn't even beat the S&P 500, it was $150 they bought the team for.
They bought the team for $150 million and almost immediately sold 4 parking garages for $75 million.
Owning the Cardinals has been extremely lucrative for this ownership group.
Break it down, just how lucrative is it for them? I will argue the Cardinals and most if not all teams would go out of business if what you state is true. If the Cards went at it alone baseball would look a lot different, it would look like the minor leagues or the Charles Comisky 1920s White Sox. Even the Indians from the movie Major League would have gone out of business. Today the operation is so unprofitable they constantly need bailouts and other infrastructure type money from governments to even stay open. Like the gateway arch national park around the corner, just how profitable is that? They build, maintain and operate that kind of stuff for the people and fans to enjoy, to have a pleasant and exciting place to have fun, create jobs, look nice etc.

More like a private/ public partnership these days to improve the quality of life for everyone. Mr. DeWitt might wet his beak some but he isn't Rachel Phelps from Major League.
Unprofitable???? There are many reliable sources that have estimated the Cards operating profit is around $60M per year. Sports franchises valuations are outsized compared to their profits. But, the team does make money. Its also not just because what is around the ballpark. At this point given how unsafe downtown has become, you could argue they are profitable despite what is around the ballpark. Also using the Gateway Arch as an example of helping them. How many people go to the Arch and then to a baseball game on the same day?
I can buy $60 million in profit for the team in a year. That's not huge profits, that's not even an Ohtani, maybe a Juan Soto. On top of that, they have to pay taxes on their profits and split it amongst many owners of the ownership group. Is Mr. DeWitt even taking home Steven Matz or Erick Fedde money? Yes, a lot of money for us normal folks but that isn't really huge money AND attendance is down so it might not even be that much.

I consider that wetting the beak not some huge obscene rip off of the people that deserves constant harsh hate.

Downtown is very safe. You think it's Gaza here? Probably more likely to get hit by a drunk driver or a teen speeding playing on their phone in your neighborhood, assulted by your husband, get your car stolen by your teen and friends, kid get beat up by a school bully, accidentally get shot cleaning your gun or kids goofing off with them than any random act of anything downtown. And I'm not sure but I think the city and governments pay for tons of cops and security the Cards don't have to cover along with infrastructure and maintenance type stuff etc. that leads to any profits.

If they spent all that money to buy the team, build the stadium, pay all the players and workers, maintain it all on there own, they would be out of business. Certainly not worth the small profits you stated.

Your last sentence makes no sense. First, the Cardinals did finance the current stadium they are in. At the time they built the stadium, I worked for a Big Four Firm that audited the underwriting and I saw the numbers. The owners do pay all the players, the debt service on the stadium, maintain it and they make a profit. They are not out of business. The way sports operations work, they charge high prices on food, because the profit on the food effectively pays the maintenance on the stadium. The operating profit is after paying the players, the maintenance people, the front office etc. The financing of the stadium would come out of the $60M operating profit. At the time I saw the numbers, which was way back in 2003 or 2004, the total annual number to service the debt was under $30M. I can't remember when the debt was paid off and there was more than one piece to it as well. But they are making money. Statsman published more detailed numbers above.

Franchise valuations are so high because the demand for ownership is so high, even if the business profits do not justify the valuation. Sports franchises are effectively very rich people's profit making hobbies. Unless something unforeseen happens, if they want to sell, they are likely to make a profit. That profit is not driven so much by the profits of the team itself, but by the fact that the very rich are getting richer and the supply is so small. So if a person wants to own a team, they have to pay an enormous price premium to join the club. When the Dewitt's bought the team, they got a bargain. At the time I saw the price, while I was pretty young in my career, the first thought that went through my head, was gee, I could have put together a group that could have paid that...Of course, they would never have let an unknown group in. It was still a club at that time, the premiums just were not yet in play.

Posted: **30 May 2025 22:25 pm**

cardstatman wrote: ↑30 May 2025 18:20 pm Surfed the internet to get these numbers:

In 2024, the St. Louis Cardinals had an operating income of $6.7 million. Their revenue for the year was $373 million which is $16M less than 2019. It seems unlikely their revenue will increase much in 2025.

2017 Revenue: $319M; Operating Income: $40M; Player Expenses $165M
2018 Revenue: $356M; Operating Income; $40M; Player Expenses $176M
2019 Revenue: $389M: Operating Income; $70M; Player Expenses $182M
2020 Revenue: $109M; Operating Income: -$60M; Player Expenses $88M
2021 Revenue: $287M; Operating Income: -$31M; Player Expenses $191M
2022 Revenue: $358M; Operating Income: $43M; Player Expenses $174M
2023 Revenue: $372M; Operating Income: $57M; Player Expenses $169M
2024 Revenue: $373M; Operating Income: $6.7M; Player Expenses $219M

Past 8 years: Revenue: $2563M; Operating Income: $166M; Player Expenses $1364M

They are valued at $2.5B even though that is roughly equal to their entire revenue for the past 8 years. Clearly, their value is based on a seller's market rather than projected income.

Thanks for putting the work in to find this. As I mentioned in the comment I just posted, the operating earnings do not take into account the debt service on the stadium. After that debt service, the team probably did lose money in 2024 based on the numbers you just provided. Never the less, the Dewitt's were a bit less than circumspect in voicing their displeasure with the fans after the season. Having said that, having a payroll around $150-160M makes sense, in particular with the broadcast revenue uncertainty.

Also as I indicated, the teams valuations are not reflected by the operating profit, but rather by the demand and lack of professional sports franchise ownership opportunities. You have to be really really really rich to play in this game. Even being a billionaire with just a 1 in the first number doesn't really get you in the game...

Posted: **30 May 2025 23:24 pm**

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑30 May 2025 22:20 pm
Ike Hammett wrote: ↑30 May 2025 12:39 pm
ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑30 May 2025 11:49 am
Ike Hammett wrote: ↑30 May 2025 11:32 am
Monsieur De Treville wrote: ↑30 May 2025 08:02 am
Ike Hammett wrote: ↑29 May 2025 16:00 pm
Bomber1 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 15:19 pm
Ike Hammett wrote: ↑29 May 2025 13:03 pm
desertrat23 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 12:31 pm
Ike Hammett wrote: ↑29 May 2025 12:12 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 11:46 am
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 11:36 am So it's not worth going to watch a team that's 32-24 so far?
90 percent of the fan base lives far from STL. Me- 800 miles. What are we supposed to do to show fan support in your estimation.
Move to downtown St. Louis, go to all the games, party at ballpark village, have tons of fun rooting for the club with other like minded people in baseball heaven and be loyal to what provides it. Some of us who have are living the best way any baseball fan can.

The least you can probably do is not bash on the club
“Loyal to what provides it?”

DO NOT QUESTION DEAR LEADER!!!
Don't try to frame that as some kind of a cult thing. That's ridiculous! The Cardinals support the community and their fans just as much (if not more) than they get in return. Busch Stadium and the surrounding facilities is my favorite place on earth and I have been to just about all the places worth going to. Nothing wrong with tipping the cap to the people who built it and run it. THEY DO IT FOR US! The least we can do is appreciate it, support it and be loyal to the folks that provide it.

It's one of the big problems with society, you spoiled rotten entitled brats are never happy and too cool to acknowledge anything, even when it is what you want and ask for. Don't do that, say thanks and have fun, try to get along and support the community. You're completely illogical.
You are an idiot plainly and simply.

“THEY DO IT FOR US!”

Yes the fact that their $100 million investment is now worth 2.5 BILLION certainly proves that ownership is only “in it for the fans.”

What a dolt!
That doesn't even beat the S&P 500, it was $150 they bought the team for.
They bought the team for $150 million and almost immediately sold 4 parking garages for $75 million.
Owning the Cardinals has been extremely lucrative for this ownership group.
Break it down, just how lucrative is it for them? I will argue the Cardinals and most if not all teams would go out of business if what you state is true. If the Cards went at it alone baseball would look a lot different, it would look like the minor leagues or the Charles Comisky 1920s White Sox. Even the Indians from the movie Major League would have gone out of business. Today the operation is so unprofitable they constantly need bailouts and other infrastructure type money from governments to even stay open. Like the gateway arch national park around the corner, just how profitable is that? They build, maintain and operate that kind of stuff for the people and fans to enjoy, to have a pleasant and exciting place to have fun, create jobs, look nice etc.

More like a private/ public partnership these days to improve the quality of life for everyone. Mr. DeWitt might wet his beak some but he isn't Rachel Phelps from Major League.
Unprofitable???? There are many reliable sources that have estimated the Cards operating profit is around $60M per year. Sports franchises valuations are outsized compared to their profits. But, the team does make money. Its also not just because what is around the ballpark. At this point given how unsafe downtown has become, you could argue they are profitable despite what is around the ballpark. Also using the Gateway Arch as an example of helping them. How many people go to the Arch and then to a baseball game on the same day?
I can buy $60 million in profit for the team in a year. That's not huge profits, that's not even an Ohtani, maybe a Juan Soto. On top of that, they have to pay taxes on their profits and split it amongst many owners of the ownership group. Is Mr. DeWitt even taking home Steven Matz or Erick Fedde money? Yes, a lot of money for us normal folks but that isn't really huge money AND attendance is down so it might not even be that much.

I consider that wetting the beak not some huge obscene rip off of the people that deserves constant harsh hate.

Downtown is very safe. You think it's Gaza here? Probably more likely to get hit by a drunk driver or a teen speeding playing on their phone in your neighborhood, assulted by your husband, get your car stolen by your teen and friends, kid get beat up by a school bully, accidentally get shot cleaning your gun or kids goofing off with them than any random act of anything downtown. And I'm not sure but I think the city and governments pay for tons of cops and security the Cards don't have to cover along with infrastructure and maintenance type stuff etc. that leads to any profits.

If they spent all that money to buy the team, build the stadium, pay all the players and workers, maintain it all on there own, they would be out of business. Certainly not worth the small profits you stated.
Your last sentence makes no sense. First, the Cardinals did finance the current stadium they are in. At the time they built the stadium, I worked for a Big Four Firm that audited the underwriting and I saw the numbers. The owners do pay all the players, the debt service on the stadium, maintain it and they make a profit. They are not out of business. The way sports operations work, they charge high prices on food, because the profit on the food effectively pays the maintenance on the stadium. The operating profit is after paying the players, the maintenance people, the front office etc. The financing of the stadium would come out of the $60M operating profit. At the time I saw the numbers, which was way back in 2003 or 2004, the total annual number to service the debt was under $30M. I can't remember when the debt was paid off and there was more than one piece to it as well. But they are making money. Statsman published more detailed numbers above.

Franchise valuations are so high because the demand for ownership is so high, even if the business profits do not justify the valuation. Sports franchises are effectively very rich people's profit making hobbies. Unless something unforeseen happens, if they want to sell, they are likely to make a profit. That profit is not driven so much by the profits of the team itself, but by the fact that the very rich are getting richer and the supply is so small. So if a person wants to own a team, they have to pay an enormous price premium to join the club. When the Dewitt's bought the team, they got a bargain. At the time I saw the price, while I was pretty young in my career, the first thought that went through my head, was gee, I could have put together a group that could have paid that...Of course, they would never have let an unknown group in. It was still a club at that time, the premiums just were not yet in play.

So the obvious question(s) is, if the team is such a gold mine why would they have wanted to sell it? And sell it at a bargain price? Especially if all the owners are just filthy rich cut throat business people?

I vaguely remember a year or two back the Cards asking or talking about asking for $600+ million in public funding for renovations, why if they are so profitable? I see teams like the A's, Rays, Royals needing huge help to fund their ballparks. The Cards built there stadium in a different time and is actually a very good deal compared to what that costs today. The Cards did get some help from the State with infrastructure, tax deals from the city, a loan from the county and I think they help in other ways as well.

I also think a huge chunk of there revenues comes from other businesses like sponsors, it's not all just money from ticket sales and concessions of regular fans.

Maybe we have a misunderstanding on this subject. My argument is regular fans like us get it better than what we really pay for. That if it was just us and what we pay the experience wouldn't be as good and what we have would go out of business. Without government(s) helping, sponsors and good owners committed to the community and fans it isn't really possible or viable. We should be thankful for what we have and appreciate it, at the very least not whine and bash like spoiled brats all day long. Some teams actually lose money trying to serve their fans. Cards always field competitive teams with decent payrolls, Mr. DeWitt has publicly said, it's not that profitable, I agree. Average ticket price is only >$40. Even at 3 million that's only $120 million. Look at their payrolls over the years. And that $40 is today's prices not years ago, also a lot of those tickets and luxury boxes are bought buy sponsors and businesses raising the average price.

Posted: **31 May 2025 00:23 am**

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑30 May 2025 23:24 pm
ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑30 May 2025 22:20 pm
Ike Hammett wrote: ↑30 May 2025 12:39 pm
ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑30 May 2025 11:49 am
Ike Hammett wrote: ↑30 May 2025 11:32 am
Monsieur De Treville wrote: ↑30 May 2025 08:02 am
Ike Hammett wrote: ↑29 May 2025 16:00 pm
Bomber1 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 15:19 pm
Ike Hammett wrote: ↑29 May 2025 13:03 pm
desertrat23 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 12:31 pm
Ike Hammett wrote: ↑29 May 2025 12:12 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 11:46 am

90 percent of the fan base lives far from STL. Me- 800 miles. What are we supposed to do to show fan support in your estimation.
Move to downtown St. Louis, go to all the games, party at ballpark village, have tons of fun rooting for the club with other like minded people in baseball heaven and be loyal to what provides it. Some of us who have are living the best way any baseball fan can.

The least you can probably do is not bash on the club
“Loyal to what provides it?”

DO NOT QUESTION DEAR LEADER!!!
Don't try to frame that as some kind of a cult thing. That's ridiculous! The Cardinals support the community and their fans just as much (if not more) than they get in return. Busch Stadium and the surrounding facilities is my favorite place on earth and I have been to just about all the places worth going to. Nothing wrong with tipping the cap to the people who built it and run it. THEY DO IT FOR US! The least we can do is appreciate it, support it and be loyal to the folks that provide it.

It's one of the big problems with society, you spoiled rotten entitled brats are never happy and too cool to acknowledge anything, even when it is what you want and ask for. Don't do that, say thanks and have fun, try to get along and support the community. You're completely illogical.
You are an idiot plainly and simply.

“THEY DO IT FOR US!”

Yes the fact that their $100 million investment is now worth 2.5 BILLION certainly proves that ownership is only “in it for the fans.”

What a dolt!
That doesn't even beat the S&P 500, it was $150 they bought the team for.
They bought the team for $150 million and almost immediately sold 4 parking garages for $75 million.
Owning the Cardinals has been extremely lucrative for this ownership group.
Break it down, just how lucrative is it for them? I will argue the Cardinals and most if not all teams would go out of business if what you state is true. If the Cards went at it alone baseball would look a lot different, it would look like the minor leagues or the Charles Comisky 1920s White Sox. Even the Indians from the movie Major League would have gone out of business. Today the operation is so unprofitable they constantly need bailouts and other infrastructure type money from governments to even stay open. Like the gateway arch national park around the corner, just how profitable is that? They build, maintain and operate that kind of stuff for the people and fans to enjoy, to have a pleasant and exciting place to have fun, create jobs, look nice etc.

More like a private/ public partnership these days to improve the quality of life for everyone. Mr. DeWitt might wet his beak some but he isn't Rachel Phelps from Major League.
Unprofitable???? There are many reliable sources that have estimated the Cards operating profit is around $60M per year. Sports franchises valuations are outsized compared to their profits. But, the team does make money. Its also not just because what is around the ballpark. At this point given how unsafe downtown has become, you could argue they are profitable despite what is around the ballpark. Also using the Gateway Arch as an example of helping them. How many people go to the Arch and then to a baseball game on the same day?
I can buy $60 million in profit for the team in a year. That's not huge profits, that's not even an Ohtani, maybe a Juan Soto. On top of that, they have to pay taxes on their profits and split it amongst many owners of the ownership group. Is Mr. DeWitt even taking home Steven Matz or Erick Fedde money? Yes, a lot of money for us normal folks but that isn't really huge money AND attendance is down so it might not even be that much.

I consider that wetting the beak not some huge obscene rip off of the people that deserves constant harsh hate.

Downtown is very safe. You think it's Gaza here? Probably more likely to get hit by a drunk driver or a teen speeding playing on their phone in your neighborhood, assulted by your husband, get your car stolen by your teen and friends, kid get beat up by a school bully, accidentally get shot cleaning your gun or kids goofing off with them than any random act of anything downtown. And I'm not sure but I think the city and governments pay for tons of cops and security the Cards don't have to cover along with infrastructure and maintenance type stuff etc. that leads to any profits.

If they spent all that money to buy the team, build the stadium, pay all the players and workers, maintain it all on there own, they would be out of business. Certainly not worth the small profits you stated.
Your last sentence makes no sense. First, the Cardinals did finance the current stadium they are in. At the time they built the stadium, I worked for a Big Four Firm that audited the underwriting and I saw the numbers. The owners do pay all the players, the debt service on the stadium, maintain it and they make a profit. They are not out of business. The way sports operations work, they charge high prices on food, because the profit on the food effectively pays the maintenance on the stadium. The operating profit is after paying the players, the maintenance people, the front office etc. The financing of the stadium would come out of the $60M operating profit. At the time I saw the numbers, which was way back in 2003 or 2004, the total annual number to service the debt was under $30M. I can't remember when the debt was paid off and there was more than one piece to it as well. But they are making money. Statsman published more detailed numbers above.

Franchise valuations are so high because the demand for ownership is so high, even if the business profits do not justify the valuation. Sports franchises are effectively very rich people's profit making hobbies. Unless something unforeseen happens, if they want to sell, they are likely to make a profit. That profit is not driven so much by the profits of the team itself, but by the fact that the very rich are getting richer and the supply is so small. So if a person wants to own a team, they have to pay an enormous price premium to join the club. When the Dewitt's bought the team, they got a bargain. At the time I saw the price, while I was pretty young in my career, the first thought that went through my head, was gee, I could have put together a group that could have paid that...Of course, they would never have let an unknown group in. It was still a club at that time, the premiums just were not yet in play.
So the obvious question(s) is, if the team is such a gold mine why would they have wanted to sell it? And sell it at a bargain price? Especially if all the owners are just filthy rich cut throat business people?

I vaguely remember a year or two back the Cards asking or talking about asking for $600+ million in public funding for renovations, why if they are so profitable? I see teams like the A's, Rays, Royals needing huge help to fund their ballparks. The Cards built there stadium in a different time and is actually a very good deal compared to what that costs today. The Cards did get some help from the State with infrastructure, tax deals from the city, a loan from the county and I think they help in other ways as well.

I also think a huge chunk of there revenues comes from other businesses like sponsors, it's not all just money from ticket sales and concessions of regular fans.

Maybe we have a misunderstanding on this subject. My argument is regular fans like us get it better than what we really pay for. That if it was just us and what we pay the experience wouldn't be as good and what we have would go out of business. Without government(s) helping, sponsors and good owners committed to the community and fans it isn't really possible or viable. We should be thankful for what we have and appreciate it, at the very least not whine and bash like spoiled brats all day long. Some teams actually lose money trying to serve their fans. Cards always field competitive teams with decent payrolls, Mr. DeWitt has publicly said, it's not that profitable, I agree. Average ticket price is only >$40. Even at 3 million that's only $120 million. Look at their payrolls over the years. And that $40 is today's prices not years ago, also a lot of those tickets and luxury boxes are bought buy sponsors and businesses raising the average price.

Yes, it is complicated. I agree with your point that the average fan is getting a good deal. When the Cards built this stadium in 2006, it had fewer seats than the old Busch Stadium. But what it had was 10,000 more seats in the lower bowl / premium seats. I would not necessarily call them sponsors. Rather, there are businesses and well to do people willing to pay a premium for a better experience. They are paying more than $40 ticket. This stadium was designed to cater to high end fans while still providing seating at reasonable prices if the average fan wanted to go. I have seen that average $40 ticket price. But, I think the average is higher, a lot higher. You can get seats in the bleachers and the 200+ sections for less. But, retail for the 100 sections or the all inclusive seating is much higher. Those sections account for more than half the seats in the stadium.

I am sort of at that stage in my life as well. Still trying to catch all the classic rock bands when they come through town. Going out to Hollywood Amphitheater, I have zero interest in sitting on the lawn, or their small seats with some overweight guy next to me crowding into my seat. If I pay $500-750 per ticket to sit in the luxury box and have some waitress wait on me hand and foot, that is the experience I want. Sometimes when I go to Busch Stadium, I don't want to wait in line for food, parking etc. So, I get an all inclusive seat and pay for it. Just depends on my mood.

Like I said, this is not a business to roll in the dough. It is a rich man's hobby business that makes some money and the franchise carries an outsized valuation not justified by any financial numbers. Just the demands of someone who wants the franchise. If my net worth was $5B, I would be first in line to try and buy one...But I am not worth that, not close...

Posted: **31 May 2025 04:56 am**

desertrat23 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:38 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:31 pm
desertrat23 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:25 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:16 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 13:51 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 13:50 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 11:46 am
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 11:36 am So it's not worth going to watch a team that's 32-24 so far?
90 percent of the fan base lives far from STL. Me- 800 miles. What are we supposed to do to show fan support in your estimation.
I thought you lived in Sikeston, dawg. If you live that far away, then disregard my post please.
Nope. About 800 to STL.
Never mind, then. It’s the local people in St. Louis I don’t get who are so filled with hate they refuse to support a hard working winning team.
They. Don't. Want. To. Support. The. Owner.

Why is this so confusing?
It’s childish. The owner has given the fans one of the best runs in Cardinals history.
He did, but that run has been over for some time. You act like he "gave" it out of some sense of noblesse oblige; that it was a gift granted upon us poor Hoosiers by our better and as a result we owe him tribute and loyalty. It was a deal with equal exchange of value. That's no longer the case.

Cranny is trying to use reverse psychology. It’s as obvious as dog balls. Not gonna work, Cranny. Sorry. Try again.

Posted: **31 May 2025 08:01 am**

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 10:32 am
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 10:29 am
Absolut wrote: ↑29 May 2025 10:27 am This has as much to do with on field performance as asinine, egotistical and out of touch statements made by management and ownership over the past few years.
So, take it out on the players?
No, it's showing the ownership that they are not an attractive enough option. If it's their lack of enticing players, that's also on management. It's a team game for entertainment. No player is taking it personally.

They need to be sellers at the deadline. Wasting assets on adding this year is a horrible strategy.

Posted: **31 May 2025 09:16 am**

Cranny wrote: ↑30 May 2025 17:10 pm
Adam2 wrote: ↑30 May 2025 11:28 am
Cranny wrote: ↑30 May 2025 11:14 am I guess some forget that the Cards have won 90 or more games in 3 out of the last 5 full seasons?
Doesn't make me want to go to the stadium more or less. The only time I have gone to a game in person in the last 10 years is if tickets were free and they were in the all-inclusive.

I used to have a season ticket share with friends, and we all just got tired of all the hassle involved with driving, parking, lines to get in, long lines at all bathrooms, missing an entire half inning to get food or drink because the lines are so long, waiting forever in traffic just to get out of the parking lot or garage.

pass
To each his own.

Exactly Cranny.

So stop starting threads to bash those who don’t go to games.

Posted: **31 May 2025 10:32 am**

Rojo Johnson wrote: ↑31 May 2025 04:56 am
desertrat23 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:38 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:31 pm
desertrat23 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:25 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:16 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 13:51 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 13:50 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 11:46 am
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 11:36 am So it's not worth going to watch a team that's 32-24 so far?
90 percent of the fan base lives far from STL. Me- 800 miles. What are we supposed to do to show fan support in your estimation.
I thought you lived in Sikeston, dawg. If you live that far away, then disregard my post please.
Nope. About 800 to STL.
Never mind, then. It’s the local people in St. Louis I don’t get who are so filled with hate they refuse to support a hard working winning team.
They. Don't. Want. To. Support. The. Owner.

Why is this so confusing?
It’s childish. The owner has given the fans one of the best runs in Cardinals history.
He did, but that run has been over for some time. You act like he "gave" it out of some sense of noblesse oblige; that it was a gift granted upon us poor Hoosiers by our better and as a result we owe him tribute and loyalty. It was a deal with equal exchange of value. That's no longer the case.
Cranny is trying to use reverse psychology. It’s as obvious as dog balls. Not gonna work, Cranny. Sorry. Try again.

90 wins or more in 3 of the last 5 full seasons, Rojo.
Guess you forgot that?

Posted: **31 May 2025 10:33 am**

Bomber1 wrote: ↑31 May 2025 09:16 am
Cranny wrote: ↑30 May 2025 17:10 pm
Adam2 wrote: ↑30 May 2025 11:28 am
Cranny wrote: ↑30 May 2025 11:14 am I guess some forget that the Cards have won 90 or more games in 3 out of the last 5 full seasons?
Doesn't make me want to go to the stadium more or less. The only time I have gone to a game in person in the last 10 years is if tickets were free and they were in the all-inclusive.

I used to have a season ticket share with friends, and we all just got tired of all the hassle involved with driving, parking, lines to get in, long lines at all bathrooms, missing an entire half inning to get food or drink because the lines are so long, waiting forever in traffic just to get out of the parking lot or garage.

pass
To each his own.
Exactly Cranny.

So stop starting threads to bash those who don’t go to games.

I don’t bash anyone, Bomber. I just say that their record at home deserves more home town support.
That’s all.

Posted: **31 May 2025 10:35 am**

Cranny wrote: ↑31 May 2025 10:32 am
Rojo Johnson wrote: ↑31 May 2025 04:56 am
desertrat23 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:38 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:31 pm
desertrat23 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:25 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:16 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 13:51 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 13:50 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 11:46 am
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 11:36 am So it's not worth going to watch a team that's 32-24 so far?
90 percent of the fan base lives far from STL. Me- 800 miles. What are we supposed to do to show fan support in your estimation.
I thought you lived in Sikeston, dawg. If you live that far away, then disregard my post please.
Nope. About 800 to STL.
Never mind, then. It’s the local people in St. Louis I don’t get who are so filled with hate they refuse to support a hard working winning team.
They. Don't. Want. To. Support. The. Owner.

Why is this so confusing?
It’s childish. The owner has given the fans one of the best runs in Cardinals history.
He did, but that run has been over for some time. You act like he "gave" it out of some sense of noblesse oblige; that it was a gift granted upon us poor Hoosiers by our better and as a result we owe him tribute and loyalty. It was a deal with equal exchange of value. That's no longer the case.
Cranny is trying to use reverse psychology. It’s as obvious as dog balls. Not gonna work, Cranny. Sorry. Try again.
90 wins or more in 3 of the last 5 full seasons, Rojo.
Guess you forgot that?

Not. Good. Enough.

Posted: **31 May 2025 10:48 am**

Cranny wrote: ↑31 May 2025 10:33 am
Bomber1 wrote: ↑31 May 2025 09:16 am
Cranny wrote: ↑30 May 2025 17:10 pm
Adam2 wrote: ↑30 May 2025 11:28 am
Cranny wrote: ↑30 May 2025 11:14 am I guess some forget that the Cards have won 90 or more games in 3 out of the last 5 full seasons?
Doesn't make me want to go to the stadium more or less. The only time I have gone to a game in person in the last 10 years is if tickets were free and they were in the all-inclusive.

I used to have a season ticket share with friends, and we all just got tired of all the hassle involved with driving, parking, lines to get in, long lines at all bathrooms, missing an entire half inning to get food or drink because the lines are so long, waiting forever in traffic just to get out of the parking lot or garage.

pass
To each his own.
Exactly Cranny.

So stop starting threads to bash those who don’t go to games.
I don’t bash anyone, Bomber. I just say that their record at home deserves more home town support.
That’s all.

I do support, from my couch. never from the stadium

Posted: **31 May 2025 11:11 am**

desertrat23 wrote: ↑31 May 2025 10:35 am
Cranny wrote: ↑31 May 2025 10:32 am
Rojo Johnson wrote: ↑31 May 2025 04:56 am
desertrat23 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:38 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:31 pm
desertrat23 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:25 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:16 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 13:51 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 13:50 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 11:46 am
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 11:36 am So it's not worth going to watch a team that's 32-24 so far?
90 percent of the fan base lives far from STL. Me- 800 miles. What are we supposed to do to show fan support in your estimation.
I thought you lived in Sikeston, dawg. If you live that far away, then disregard my post please.
Nope. About 800 to STL.
Never mind, then. It’s the local people in St. Louis I don’t get who are so filled with hate they refuse to support a hard working winning team.
They. Don't. Want. To. Support. The. Owner.

Why is this so confusing?
It’s childish. The owner has given the fans one of the best runs in Cardinals history.
He did, but that run has been over for some time. You act like he "gave" it out of some sense of noblesse oblige; that it was a gift granted upon us poor Hoosiers by our better and as a result we owe him tribute and loyalty. It was a deal with equal exchange of value. That's no longer the case.
Cranny is trying to use reverse psychology. It’s as obvious as dog balls. Not gonna work, Cranny. Sorry. Try again.
90 wins or more in 3 of the last 5 full seasons, Rojo.
Guess you forgot that?
Not. Good. Enough.

I, desertrat, don’t want 90+ win seasons. I want (and deserve) World Championships!!!

Posted: **31 May 2025 11:16 am**

Cranny wrote: ↑31 May 2025 11:11 am
desertrat23 wrote: ↑31 May 2025 10:35 am
Cranny wrote: ↑31 May 2025 10:32 am
Rojo Johnson wrote: ↑31 May 2025 04:56 am
desertrat23 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:38 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:31 pm
desertrat23 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:25 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:16 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 13:51 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 13:50 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 11:46 am
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 11:36 am So it's not worth going to watch a team that's 32-24 so far?
90 percent of the fan base lives far from STL. Me- 800 miles. What are we supposed to do to show fan support in your estimation.
I thought you lived in Sikeston, dawg. If you live that far away, then disregard my post please.
Nope. About 800 to STL.
Never mind, then. It’s the local people in St. Louis I don’t get who are so filled with hate they refuse to support a hard working winning team.
They. Don't. Want. To. Support. The. Owner.

Why is this so confusing?
It’s childish. The owner has given the fans one of the best runs in Cardinals history.
He did, but that run has been over for some time. You act like he "gave" it out of some sense of noblesse oblige; that it was a gift granted upon us poor Hoosiers by our better and as a result we owe him tribute and loyalty. It was a deal with equal exchange of value. That's no longer the case.
Cranny is trying to use reverse psychology. It’s as obvious as dog balls. Not gonna work, Cranny. Sorry. Try again.
90 wins or more in 3 of the last 5 full seasons, Rojo.
Guess you forgot that?
Not. Good. Enough.
I, desertrat, don’t want 90+ win seasons. I want (and deserve) World Championships!!!

Yeah, I do. And so should you.

Posted: **31 May 2025 11:24 am**

Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑31 May 2025 08:01 am
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 10:32 am
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 10:29 am
Absolut wrote: ↑29 May 2025 10:27 am This has as much to do with on field performance as asinine, egotistical and out of touch statements made by management and ownership over the past few years.
So, take it out on the players?
No, it's showing the ownership that they are not an attractive enough option. If it's their lack of enticing players, that's also on management. It's a team game for entertainment. No player is taking it personally.
They need to be sellers at the deadline. Wasting assets on adding this year is a horrible strategy.

So if you sell, you don't get assets back? How do you sell and not get anything back?

Posted: **31 May 2025 12:01 pm**

desertrat23 wrote: ↑31 May 2025 11:16 am
Cranny wrote: ↑31 May 2025 11:11 am
desertrat23 wrote: ↑31 May 2025 10:35 am
Cranny wrote: ↑31 May 2025 10:32 am
Rojo Johnson wrote: ↑31 May 2025 04:56 am
desertrat23 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:38 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:31 pm
desertrat23 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:25 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:16 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 13:51 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 13:50 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 11:46 am

90 percent of the fan base lives far from STL. Me- 800 miles. What are we supposed to do to show fan support in your estimation.
I thought you lived in Sikeston, dawg. If you live that far away, then disregard my post please.
Nope. About 800 to STL.
Never mind, then. It’s the local people in St. Louis I don’t get who are so filled with hate they refuse to support a hard working winning team.
They. Don't. Want. To. Support. The. Owner.

Why is this so confusing?
It’s childish. The owner has given the fans one of the best runs in Cardinals history.
He did, but that run has been over for some time. You act like he "gave" it out of some sense of noblesse oblige; that it was a gift granted upon us poor Hoosiers by our better and as a result we owe him tribute and loyalty. It was a deal with equal exchange of value. That's no longer the case.
Cranny is trying to use reverse psychology. It’s as obvious as dog balls. Not gonna work, Cranny. Sorry. Try again.
90 wins or more in 3 of the last 5 full seasons, Rojo.
Guess you forgot that?
Not. Good. Enough.
I, desertrat, don’t want 90+ win seasons. I want (and deserve) World Championships!!!
Yeah, I do. And so should you.

I should deserve World Championships? Really?

Posted: **31 May 2025 12:34 pm**

Cranny wrote: ↑31 May 2025 12:01 pm
desertrat23 wrote: ↑31 May 2025 11:16 am
Cranny wrote: ↑31 May 2025 11:11 am
desertrat23 wrote: ↑31 May 2025 10:35 am
Cranny wrote: ↑31 May 2025 10:32 am
Rojo Johnson wrote: ↑31 May 2025 04:56 am
desertrat23 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:38 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:31 pm
desertrat23 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:25 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 14:16 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 13:51 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑29 May 2025 13:50 pm

I thought you lived in Sikeston, dawg. If you live that far away, then disregard my post please.
Nope. About 800 to STL.
Never mind, then. It’s the local people in St. Louis I don’t get who are so filled with hate they refuse to support a hard working winning team.
They. Don't. Want. To. Support. The. Owner.

Why is this so confusing?
It’s childish. The owner has given the fans one of the best runs in Cardinals history.
He did, but that run has been over for some time. You act like he "gave" it out of some sense of noblesse oblige; that it was a gift granted upon us poor Hoosiers by our better and as a result we owe him tribute and loyalty. It was a deal with equal exchange of value. That's no longer the case.
Cranny is trying to use reverse psychology. It’s as obvious as dog balls. Not gonna work, Cranny. Sorry. Try again.
90 wins or more in 3 of the last 5 full seasons, Rojo.
Guess you forgot that?
Not. Good. Enough.
I, desertrat, don’t want 90+ win seasons. I want (and deserve) World Championships!!!
Yeah, I do. And so should you.
I should deserve World Championships? Really?

Sure, why not? You’ve been supportive and loyal for decades, as have I. Should you EXPECT one? No. But there’s no reason you don’t DESERVE one.

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