So haters, how exactly do we quantify if moving Nado down worked?

[spfldan]

I. Don’t like you funky mother. Oh no. I. Don’t like your sister too. And I. Don’t like your ugly brother. Oh no. And I. Don’t like your daddy too.

But I think everything. I don’t want to know. I hate everything about you.

I. I. I.

Ugly Joe Kid.

serious question bulldog. Do you have all this lyric knowledge in your head or have you got a rock lyric app. something or other? I am seriously impressed with how you come up with these things, and they're always applicable.

[JDW]

Just for kicks, what is your specialty?

Geopolitical economic warfare strategy and comprehensive domestic policy. Also knowing when baseball teams are hot and playing well you don't go messing around with that because haters on the internet whine all day long. You?

Among other things, CT [nonsense] analyzer. You failed miserably btw.
What you think you know and what reality is are 2 different things. Arrogance and ignorance are closely related.
Also, your complaint and whines should be directed at Oli an Arenado. They're the 2 that adjusted the lineup, with help from Arenado's input.
Ebbs and flows. That's what we're seeing with the team. Trying to blame the last 2 losses on the lineup adjustments is ridiculous.
You do qualify there.

What's your specialty? 33 degree member of the freemasons, skull and bones? "What you think you know and what reality is are 2 different things". Break that down, I want to know WAY more about that, my teachability index is sky high for that knowledge. I try to not be arrogant but my ignorance of the situation and what is being reported is real. How exactly do you know what happened? For all we know it was a preventative public relations action taken by a team struggling with support and attendance trying to appease the small but loud group of haters that are never happy. Is that possible?

You’ve got to be kidding. This organization is so bad at PR and tone-deaf to what its paying customers want that they’ve hemorrhaged paying customers by the hundreds of thousands over the past few years. You think they do ANYTHING as a preventative PR action to appease a small (or even a large) group of people?

Yup! In the recent past it might not have seemed like it so much. You have to remember also the fans are all over the place on what they want too. This Nado lineup thing is like a 98% to 2% kind of a no trainer for them. When things are that easy, it's easy to appease. There is also the fact a lot of these "fans" are unrealistic in their demands as wanting things that can't be done. The Cardinals staff and this ownership and management are extremely good at managing the PR and taking care of their customers. You have to have huge support and attendance to have "hemorraged" it. Back in the early 90s this club was more like the Reds and Royals today. Their attention to detail and customer service built a monster. The "fans" in a lot of ways have just become spoiled and complacent to it. Like America in a lot of ways, you don't really know how good you have it because you never had bad times or can hardly remember them.

They WERE extremely good at taking care of their customers, the. They got complacent. Imagine thinking the paying customers are spoiled.

What do you want? This is the big leagues, Dodgers, Mets, Phillies, Padres, Braves, Scrubs, Brewers, D-Backs, Giants, fans etc in just the National League want to win also. What makes you so much better fans than those teams? Your constant whining and call for boycotting the club? Bashing on players and lack of support?

You’re bashing management for moving a player who sucks and knew he should be moved from cleanup up from batting fourth. What makes you a better fan for bashing them for that than fans who bash them for them other things? You’re a clown

I'm not buying your premise for 2 reasons. I've never bashed on the manger and team for lineup decisions and I'm not convinced they wanted to do it. I'm bashing on haters who wanted to fix things when they were not broken and want to know if their fix is working. It doesn't seem to be to me. For like the forth time can you explain how it is working? Put on your weirdo tin foil hat and do please explain how all your bashing of moving Nado has made this team any better recently.

Can you explain to me how you expected them to continue to win 13 of every 15 games and never lose another series and how they won 11-4 the first game they made the move? Did they forget when they scored 11 runs that he wasn’t batting fourth and then the last two games realized uh oh Arenado isn’t batting fourth anymore we need to lose now lol I mean u have to realize how dumb that theory is? Can you explain how they were 14-19 with Arenado batting fourth and then since that is the only reason they had the winning streak? You are a joke

Oh and by the way the cardinals are 6-1 when Gorman plays third so by ikes logic Arenado needs to be benched immediately and Gorman installed at third

Yes, by Ike's lack of logic, we need to find as many SSS anomalies as we can that have coincided with wins, then whine and complain about them on CT until it forces Oli and Mo to make our whines come true, while also finding as many SSS events that coincided with losses and do the same.
It's going to get complicated, and there will be some contradictions along the way, but let us not be deterred in our goal for a near perfect finish.

Too funny in a sad way.

[AnExParrot]

Are we going to do better than 12- 2 the next few weeks? Outscore our opponents more? Build better team chemistry? What?

How's 11 runs through 7 looking?

How's a series loss at home and just as many losses in less than 24 hours compared to the previous 2+ weeks looking? Not to mention dropping a couple of games more behind the Cubs?

So you think Nado going 0 for 4 in the clean up spot would have helped them win today? lol youre an idiot. And if you think they would have continued to win 13 out of every 15 games if he stayed in the clean up spot then you are a bigger idiot

I don't know anything about how things would have worked out since you haters demanded things get fixed with the lineup. I know you fixed our series winning streak. Are things way better now?

Right you have no idea how things would have worked out so youre just a whiney baby complaining about Oli making a smart decision

Yes, I don't know how they would have turned out, but I know how they turned out and I would swap in a second because they lost 2 in a row and looks like some momentum. What's so smart about it? That's kind of the whole point of this thread, how exactly did you quantify it was smart? All I've seen is a series loss and series loss at home for the first time in a while.

What's so smart about it? It's gives fewer plate appearances(and fewer key plate appearances) to a player that has shown, over a quite large sample at this point, that he is no longer the hitter he was when he was acquired.

[Ike Hammett]

Are we going to do better than 12- 2 the next few weeks? Outscore our opponents more? Build better team chemistry? What?

How's 11 runs through 7 looking?

How's a series loss at home and just as many losses in less than 24 hours compared to the previous 2+ weeks looking? Not to mention dropping a couple of games more behind the Cubs?

So you think Nado going 0 for 4 in the clean up spot would have helped them win today? lol youre an idiot. And if you think they would have continued to win 13 out of every 15 games if he stayed in the clean up spot then you are a bigger idiot

I don't know anything about how things would have worked out since you haters demanded things get fixed with the lineup. I know you fixed our series winning streak. Are things way better now?

Right you have no idea how things would have worked out so youre just a whiney baby complaining about Oli making a smart decision

Yes, I don't know how they would have turned out, but I know how they turned out and I would swap in a second because they lost 2 in a row and looks like some momentum. What's so smart about it? That's kind of the whole point of this thread, how exactly did you quantify it was smart? All I've seen is a series loss and series loss at home for the first time in a while.

What's so smart about it? It's gives fewer plate appearances(and fewer key plate appearances) to a player that has shown, over a quite large sample at this point, that he is no longer the hitter he was when he was acquired.

That is a myth. Not true. The amount of at bats a player has is determined by a lot more factors than just where they hit in the line up. It has to do with how many games that guy plays, how good the offense is, how good the other teams pitching is, the defense, the umpire strike zone etc

Some guys can get 6 at bats in a game, some situations guys only get 3 and that is if they play. On top of that in some key situations the other team will pitch around the better hitters to get to the easier outs.

I bet big bucks, Arenado hitting at 6 he still averages more plate appearances than guys like Contreas or Herrera hitting higher. The guy plays everyday, is very rarely ever injured and plays in the field more. Does that effect performance? Does it in a good way or bad way? Lots of people thought Ripken could have had bigger numbers if not for the streak. Pitchers can pitch 300 innings but the team will overall probably lose more because they will not be as effective as bringing in a relief ace. Look what happens to guys like Gorman and maybe Contreas or Herrera when they start to play more games, that grind wears on guys performance. Look at Pujols last year, they mostly just put him in in certain situations he could thrive and was way better than previous years.

It's very complicated and there are too many variables to calculate, sometimes liars figure and figures lie.

[AnExParrot]

Are we going to do better than 12- 2 the next few weeks? Outscore our opponents more? Build better team chemistry? What?

How's 11 runs through 7 looking?

How's a series loss at home and just as many losses in less than 24 hours compared to the previous 2+ weeks looking? Not to mention dropping a couple of games more behind the Cubs?

So you think Nado going 0 for 4 in the clean up spot would have helped them win today? lol youre an idiot. And if you think they would have continued to win 13 out of every 15 games if he stayed in the clean up spot then you are a bigger idiot

I don't know anything about how things would have worked out since you haters demanded things get fixed with the lineup. I know you fixed our series winning streak. Are things way better now?

Right you have no idea how things would have worked out so youre just a whiney baby complaining about Oli making a smart decision

Yes, I don't know how they would have turned out, but I know how they turned out and I would swap in a second because they lost 2 in a row and looks like some momentum. What's so smart about it? That's kind of the whole point of this thread, how exactly did you quantify it was smart? All I've seen is a series loss and series loss at home for the first time in a while.

What's so smart about it? It's gives fewer plate appearances(and fewer key plate appearances) to a player that has shown, over a quite large sample at this point, that he is no longer the hitter he was when he was acquired.

That is a myth. Not true. The amount of at bats a player has is determined by a lot more factors than just where they hit in the line up. It has to do with how many games that guy plays, how good the offense is, how good the other teams pitching is, the defense, the umpire strike zone etc

Some guys can get 6 at bats in a game, some situations guys only get 3 and that is if they play. On top of that in some key situations the other team will pitch around the better hitters to get to the easier outs.

I bet big bucks, Arenado hitting at 6 he still averages more plate appearances than guys like Contreas or Herrera hitting higher. The guy plays everyday, is very rarely ever injured and plays in the field more. Does that effect performance? Does it in a good way or bad way? Lots of people thought Ripken could have had bigger numbers if not for the streak. Pitchers can pitch 300 innings but the team will overall probably lose more because they will not be as effective as bringing in a relief ace. Look what happens to guys like Gorman and maybe Contreas or Herrera when they start to play more games, that grind wears on guys performance. Look at Pujols last year, they mostly just put him in in certain situations he could thrive and was way better than previous years.

It's very complicated and there are too many variables to calculate, sometimes liars figure and figures lie.

It is not a myth. All those other factors being equal, the player batting higher in the lineup will get more plate appearances - it can't be argued otherwise.

These figures don't lie - each position lower in the lineup gets between 15-20 fewer plate appearances in a season. That is a fact. With only 27 outs in a game, wasting them with an unproductive player, in the heart of the order, is knee-capping your offense. And costing more productive players plate appearances.

[thetank2]

He has been productive these last 2 games. Without him they would have lost.

[Ozziesfan41]

Cardinals are guaranteed a series win I guess they forgot that arenado wasn’t batting clean up anymore and they should be losing now that he’s not lol And arenado is doing a lot better now that he was moved from cleanup

[sdaltons]

Seems a lot of you forgot you can only answer if you are a hater.

[sikeston bulldog2]

I. Don’t like you funky mother. Oh no. I. Don’t like your sister too. And I. Don’t like your ugly brother. Oh no. And I. Don’t like your daddy too.

But I think everything. I don’t want to know. I hate everything about you.

I. I. I.

Ugly Joe Kid.

serious question bulldog. Do you have all this lyric knowledge in your head or have you got a rock lyric app. something or other? I am seriously impressed with how you come up with these things, and they're always applicable.

Ha. I usually have a song in my head. As for the lyrics, takes one to notice or to catch it. Good work. As for application, if they say it better- let em.

I just see word peoples scenerio and a song pops up.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

He has been productive these last 2 games. Without him they would have lost.

Yea, exactly like many of us said. Moving him down was not an insult. In fact, he asked for it. He can still be a productive hitter batting 6th, producing positive results for the team. Also, he is a backbone defensively no matter where he hits in the lineup. And wouldn't you know it, it doesn't seem to be hurting the team.

[Futuregm2]

He has been productive these last 2 games. Without him they would have lost.

Yea, exactly like many of us said. Moving him down was not an insult. In fact, he asked for it. He can still be a productive hitter batting 6th, producing positive results for the team. Also, he is a backbone defensively no matter where he hits in the lineup. And wouldn't you know it, it doesn't seem to be hurting the team.

Exactly +1

[ramfandan]

Yes, the math proves that each spot lower in the lineup has fewer AB than the spot above them.
If the 9th hitter , came to the plate as many times as the top of the order , then the NYY could have a great PR move with their fans .
They announce .. Aaron Judge will be batting 9th in every home game for the remainder of the season. We are making that move as many fans get caught in NY city traffic jams on their way to the park arriving well after the start of the game. By moving Judge to 9th, we hope to ensure fans they will not miss Judge's first AB and all subsequent at bats. Yes, the NYY are very fan friendly !

[jw0595]

It doesn't matter. The baseball gods have spoken.

[Eyelids64]

Whomever decided to hang onto Arenado is a gold ribbon hero.

[Ozziesfan41]

Whomever decided to hang onto Arenado is a gold ribbon hero.

Arenado is the hero then if mo had his way arenado would be an Astro and Gorman would be the every day third baseman

[thetank2]

Whomever decided to hang onto Arenado is a gold ribbon hero.

Arenado is the hero then if mo had his way arenado would be an Astro and Gorman would be the every day third baseman

So why would Nado stay? Because he realizes that the team Mo has built through the draft is better to work for than Houston's.