If Marmol is that bad…..

[ForumPolice]

For those that think Marmol is that bad. That Marmol is the difference between a 70-92 team and a 92-70 team, who would you like him replaced with? Names. We need names.

I think we should ban Olis relatives from posting in this forum.

[Bomber1]

Cards need someone outside the organization...been saying that since Shildt was hired.

This.

[Cardinals4Life]

For those that think Marmol is that bad. That Marmol is the difference between a 70-92 team and a 92-70 team, who would you like him replaced with? Names. We need names.

1.) Never said he was the difference in those 2 records you posted, but he is BAD and consistently contributes to the L column. He probably loses more than he wins. Thsts a net negative.

Names?
Let's s start here:
Mike Schildt - Never should have been replaced by Marmol. Ridiculous.

Yadi
Albert
Tony Vitello
Carlos Beltran
Skip Shumaker
Patrick Anderson - yeah, I think our AA manager is better than Marmol.
-Any of the other 29 MLB managers.
-Almost any former MLB manager.
-There are certainly more.

This is childish and you know it. Grow up.

Childish? I answered the guy's question with names. And those that aren't specific names are 100% true. I stand by them.

It very much reads like a note a child writes to their parent after they made them eat vegetables and who they would rather have as parents. Stand by it if you like, but it's still childish.

Sorry you feel thay way about it, Mrs. Marmol!

(OK, now that was a little childish! )

OLI MARMOL IS THE WORST MANAGER EVER EVER IN MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL AND I NEVER WANT TO SEE HIM AGAIN.

See that? That's you.

Pretty much how I feel. A little over the top, but close.

He sucks. PERIOD. I've provided lots of reasons why in numerous other threads. He probably isnt the worst in the history of the game, but we are the Cardinals and we deserve a much better manager than Oliver Marmol. He isn't up to the standard.

So, maybe, just maybe you were more than a little full of bull. And no, that wasn't over the top. That was what you said in so many words.

Full of bull? Nope. I said "almost any former MLB manager". I stand by that. Sure there are oame exceptions, but I'd take most over Marmol.

Alright, I'll keep playing your game. Let's break it down.

Yadi, Albert, Vitello, Beltran: No MLB (or MILB) managing experience.
Patrick Anderson: No MLB managing experience. And you provide zero reason for why you think he's better than Marmol. Last year was only the second time in four seasons that he had a team above .500 in our system. In 5 MILB seasons, Marmol only had one losing season.

Any of the 29 other managers? Even the guys who did worse than us last year? Whatever Bozos they've got running Minnesota, White Sox, Pittsburgh, Washington, Colorado? What about the guy who manages the Mets? All that money and all that talent to get frog marched out of the play-offs.

And your INCREDIBLY lame "Almost any other former manager" or "there are certainly more."

And wait! There's more!

According to MLB.com, the team's expected record last season was 74-88. Our actual record was 78-84. But let me guess, the players were winning in spite of Marmol, right?

The year before that, again courtesy of MLB.com, our expected record was 76-86. And we ended up at 83-79.
The year before that, 71-91, which is what we finished at.
And in Marmol's first year, we were 93-69, which was a smidge under our expected W-L record at 95-67. The horror! Still seven games up on Milwaukee for in second place. A team that overachieved by one win.

But please, tell me about how this team sucks because of Marmol.

Experience is not a prerequisite to be a manager. Vitello has extensive managing experience and Yadi and Albert have gained some as well, in addition to their playing days where they showed managerial qualities even as players. I really like how Anderson managed in Springfield this year. I also put him on the list to show I would rather have our AA manager than Marmol.

Marmol had proven his inability to manage at the big league level. Should have never been given the job to begin with. (As Schild's bench coach, he likely stabbed him in the back to take his seat, but that's a completely different topic.) He simply isn't any good. That's enough for me to want somebody else. (So yeah, I would prefer any other MLB managr to Marmol, since WE KNOW he doesn't have it.)

As far as beating the predictions? Come on, guy! That is not a measurable metric to use to keeping a managing job. Somebody's preseason predictions mean NOTHING. Bottom line is he simply isn't a good MLB manger. Cardinals can do better and should do MUCH better in their next hire.

Heck Strummer, you could probably out manage Marmol!

[Strummer Jones]

For those that think Marmol is that bad. That Marmol is the difference between a 70-92 team and a 92-70 team, who would you like him replaced with? Names. We need names.

1.) Never said he was the difference in those 2 records you posted, but he is BAD and consistently contributes to the L column. He probably loses more than he wins. Thsts a net negative.

Names?
Let's s start here:
Mike Schildt - Never should have been replaced by Marmol. Ridiculous.

Yadi
Albert
Tony Vitello
Carlos Beltran
Skip Shumaker
Patrick Anderson - yeah, I think our AA manager is better than Marmol.
-Any of the other 29 MLB managers.
-Almost any former MLB manager.
-There are certainly more.

This is childish and you know it. Grow up.

Childish? I answered the guy's question with names. And those that aren't specific names are 100% true. I stand by them.

It very much reads like a note a child writes to their parent after they made them eat vegetables and who they would rather have as parents. Stand by it if you like, but it's still childish.

Sorry you feel thay way about it, Mrs. Marmol!

(OK, now that was a little childish! )

OLI MARMOL IS THE WORST MANAGER EVER EVER IN MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL AND I NEVER WANT TO SEE HIM AGAIN.

See that? That's you.

Pretty much how I feel. A little over the top, but close.

He sucks. PERIOD. I've provided lots of reasons why in numerous other threads. He probably isnt the worst in the history of the game, but we are the Cardinals and we deserve a much better manager than Oliver Marmol. He isn't up to the standard.

So, maybe, just maybe you were more than a little full of bull. And no, that wasn't over the top. That was what you said in so many words.

Full of bull? Nope. I said "almost any former MLB manager". I stand by that. Sure there are oame exceptions, but I'd take most over Marmol.

Alright, I'll keep playing your game. Let's break it down.

Yadi, Albert, Vitello, Beltran: No MLB (or MILB) managing experience.
Patrick Anderson: No MLB managing experience. And you provide zero reason for why you think he's better than Marmol. Last year was only the second time in four seasons that he had a team above .500 in our system. In 5 MILB seasons, Marmol only had one losing season.

Any of the 29 other managers? Even the guys who did worse than us last year? Whatever Bozos they've got running Minnesota, White Sox, Pittsburgh, Washington, Colorado? What about the guy who manages the Mets? All that money and all that talent to get frog marched out of the play-offs.

And your INCREDIBLY lame "Almost any other former manager" or "there are certainly more."

And wait! There's more!

According to MLB.com, the team's expected record last season was 74-88. Our actual record was 78-84. But let me guess, the players were winning in spite of Marmol, right?

The year before that, again courtesy of MLB.com, our expected record was 76-86. And we ended up at 83-79.
The year before that, 71-91, which is what we finished at.
And in Marmol's first year, we were 93-69, which was a smidge under our expected W-L record at 95-67. The horror! Still seven games up on Milwaukee for in second place. A team that overachieved by one win.

But please, tell me about how this team sucks because of Marmol.

Experience is not a prerequisite to be a manager. Vitello has extensive managing experience and Yadi and Albert have gained some as well, in addition to their playing days where they showed managerial qualities even as players. I really like how Anderson managed in Springfield this year. I also put him on the list to show I would rather have our AA manager than Marmol.

Marmol had proven his inability to manage at the big league level. Should have never been given the job to begin with. (As Schild's bench coach, he likely stabbed him in the back to take his seat, but that's a completely different topic.) He simply isn't any good. That's enough for me to want somebody else. (So yeah, I would prefer any other MLB managr to Marmol, since WE KNOW he doesn't have it.)

As far as beating the predictions? Come on, guy! That is not a measurable metric to use to keeping a managing job. Somebody's preseason predictions mean NOTHING. Bottom line is he simply isn't a good MLB manger. Cardinals can do better and should do MUCH better in their next hire.

Heck Strummer, you could probably out manage Marmol!

Vitello has extensive managing experience!? That's a laugh. Then, yeah, I could out manage Marmol, because I coached my nephew's little league team for several seasons! I mean, baseball's baseball, right? No matter if you're coaching 8 year olds, 18 year olds, or 28 year olds with multi-million dollar contracts!

Also, those pre-season metrics DO matter. This isn't coming from some "trust me-bro" in a bar in Chesterfield somewhere. It's from the league website.

Furthermore, the Shildt backstabbing thing should've been put to bed with the controversy this offseason. I loved Shildt, and I hated Mo. But seems like Mo might've had some legit reason to can Shildt, because it sounds like he was more-or-less forced out of the San Diego job for the same reasons why he was canned here. If Marmol was the reason why Shildt got canned, that says a lot more about Mozeliak than it does Marmol.

And again, there's been no such inability proven. There is NO manager who could've taken those teams as constructed over the past three years and done any better with them. They already outperformed predictions. Did Marmol put together a garbage rotation last year that saw Miles Mikolas, Andre Pallante, and Erick Fedde make a large number of starts? Did I miss the part somewhere where he was the guy who made trades and signings?

The last three or four seasons have been garbage. And most of that is on Mo. And now Bloom's gotta clean up back up.

[Cardinals4Life]

1.) Never said he was the difference in those 2 records you posted, but he is BAD and consistently contributes to the L column. He probably loses more than he wins. Thsts a net negative.

Names?
Let's s start here:
Mike Schildt - Never should have been replaced by Marmol. Ridiculous.

Yadi
Albert
Tony Vitello
Carlos Beltran
Skip Shumaker
Patrick Anderson - yeah, I think our AA manager is better than Marmol.
-Any of the other 29 MLB managers.
-Almost any former MLB manager.
-There are certainly more.

This is childish and you know it. Grow up.

Childish? I answered the guy's question with names. And those that aren't specific names are 100% true. I stand by them.

It very much reads like a note a child writes to their parent after they made them eat vegetables and who they would rather have as parents. Stand by it if you like, but it's still childish.

Sorry you feel thay way about it, Mrs. Marmol!

(OK, now that was a little childish! )

OLI MARMOL IS THE WORST MANAGER EVER EVER IN MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL AND I NEVER WANT TO SEE HIM AGAIN.

See that? That's you.

Pretty much how I feel. A little over the top, but close.

He sucks. PERIOD. I've provided lots of reasons why in numerous other threads. He probably isnt the worst in the history of the game, but we are the Cardinals and we deserve a much better manager than Oliver Marmol. He isn't up to the standard.

So, maybe, just maybe you were more than a little full of bull. And no, that wasn't over the top. That was what you said in so many words.

Full of bull? Nope. I said "almost any former MLB manager". I stand by that. Sure there are oame exceptions, but I'd take most over Marmol.

Alright, I'll keep playing your game. Let's break it down.

Yadi, Albert, Vitello, Beltran: No MLB (or MILB) managing experience.
Patrick Anderson: No MLB managing experience. And you provide zero reason for why you think he's better than Marmol. Last year was only the second time in four seasons that he had a team above .500 in our system. In 5 MILB seasons, Marmol only had one losing season.

Any of the 29 other managers? Even the guys who did worse than us last year? Whatever Bozos they've got running Minnesota, White Sox, Pittsburgh, Washington, Colorado? What about the guy who manages the Mets? All that money and all that talent to get frog marched out of the play-offs.

And your INCREDIBLY lame "Almost any other former manager" or "there are certainly more."

And wait! There's more!

According to MLB.com, the team's expected record last season was 74-88. Our actual record was 78-84. But let me guess, the players were winning in spite of Marmol, right?

The year before that, again courtesy of MLB.com, our expected record was 76-86. And we ended up at 83-79.
The year before that, 71-91, which is what we finished at.
And in Marmol's first year, we were 93-69, which was a smidge under our expected W-L record at 95-67. The horror! Still seven games up on Milwaukee for in second place. A team that overachieved by one win.

But please, tell me about how this team sucks because of Marmol.

Experience is not a prerequisite to be a manager. Vitello has extensive managing experience and Yadi and Albert have gained some as well, in addition to their playing days where they showed managerial qualities even as players. I really like how Anderson managed in Springfield this year. I also put him on the list to show I would rather have our AA manager than Marmol.

Marmol had proven his inability to manage at the big league level. Should have never been given the job to begin with. (As Schild's bench coach, he likely stabbed him in the back to take his seat, but that's a completely different topic.) He simply isn't any good. That's enough for me to want somebody else. (So yeah, I would prefer any other MLB managr to Marmol, since WE KNOW he doesn't have it.)

As far as beating the predictions? Come on, guy! That is not a measurable metric to use to keeping a managing job. Somebody's preseason predictions mean NOTHING. Bottom line is he simply isn't a good MLB manger. Cardinals can do better and should do MUCH better in their next hire.

Heck Strummer, you could probably out manage Marmol!

Vitello has extensive managing experience!? That's a laugh. Then, yeah, I could out manage Marmol, because I coached my nephew's little league team for several seasons! I mean, baseball's baseball, right? No matter if you're coaching 8 year olds, 18 year olds, or 28 year olds with multi-million dollar contracts!

Also, those pre-season metrics DO matter. This isn't coming from some "trust me-bro" in a bar in Chesterfield somewhere. It's from the league website.

Furthermore, the Shildt backstabbing thing should've been put to bed with the controversy this offseason. I loved Shildt, and I hated Mo. But seems like Mo might've had some legit reason to can Shildt, because it sounds like he was more-or-less forced out of the San Diego job for the same reasons why he was canned here. If Marmol was the reason why Shildt got canned, that says a lot more about Mozeliak than it does Marmol.

And again, there's been no such inability proven. There is NO manager who could've taken those teams as constructed over the past three years and done any better with them. They already outperformed predictions. Did Marmol put together a garbage rotation last year that saw Miles Mikolas, Andre Pallante, and Erick Fedde make a large number of starts? Did I miss the part somewhere where he was the guy who made trades and signings?

The last three or four seasons have been garbage. And most of that is on Mo. And now Bloom's gotta clean up back up.

Lot to digest Strummer.

1.) Yeah, I really do think you cpuld outmanage Marmol. No hyperbole here.

2.) Predictions are predictions, regardless of whose website they come from. Predictions carry about as much weight as a feather.....none.

3.) If Marmol did backstab Shildt, then shame on him. You can blame MO of you want, but it still says a lot about Marmol's character as well.

4.) To say NO MANAGER could've done any better is laughable. Sure they could've. This doesn't necessarily mean they would've won playoff series or more, but to say NO ONE could've done better isn't being real.

Look, no argument Marmol hasn't had the best rosters. However, he still has shown nothing as a manager and has shown a lot of poor qualities.

Have you ever talked to the man? A real arrogant piece of work that reeks of a real lack of confidence and borders on little man syndrome. Anyway, Cards can do better and should. Hopefully he is just a placeholder.

[vegascardsfan5890]

I wanted Schumaker so bad. I think he managed Miami great and I think hes going to be brilliant with the Rangers

[Strummer Jones]

This is childish and you know it. Grow up.

Childish? I answered the guy's question with names. And those that aren't specific names are 100% true. I stand by them.

It very much reads like a note a child writes to their parent after they made them eat vegetables and who they would rather have as parents. Stand by it if you like, but it's still childish.

Sorry you feel thay way about it, Mrs. Marmol!

(OK, now that was a little childish! )

OLI MARMOL IS THE WORST MANAGER EVER EVER IN MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL AND I NEVER WANT TO SEE HIM AGAIN.

See that? That's you.

Pretty much how I feel. A little over the top, but close.

He sucks. PERIOD. I've provided lots of reasons why in numerous other threads. He probably isnt the worst in the history of the game, but we are the Cardinals and we deserve a much better manager than Oliver Marmol. He isn't up to the standard.

So, maybe, just maybe you were more than a little full of bull. And no, that wasn't over the top. That was what you said in so many words.

Full of bull? Nope. I said "almost any former MLB manager". I stand by that. Sure there are oame exceptions, but I'd take most over Marmol.

Alright, I'll keep playing your game. Let's break it down.

Yadi, Albert, Vitello, Beltran: No MLB (or MILB) managing experience.
Patrick Anderson: No MLB managing experience. And you provide zero reason for why you think he's better than Marmol. Last year was only the second time in four seasons that he had a team above .500 in our system. In 5 MILB seasons, Marmol only had one losing season.

Any of the 29 other managers? Even the guys who did worse than us last year? Whatever Bozos they've got running Minnesota, White Sox, Pittsburgh, Washington, Colorado? What about the guy who manages the Mets? All that money and all that talent to get frog marched out of the play-offs.

And your INCREDIBLY lame "Almost any other former manager" or "there are certainly more."

And wait! There's more!

According to MLB.com, the team's expected record last season was 74-88. Our actual record was 78-84. But let me guess, the players were winning in spite of Marmol, right?

The year before that, again courtesy of MLB.com, our expected record was 76-86. And we ended up at 83-79.
The year before that, 71-91, which is what we finished at.
And in Marmol's first year, we were 93-69, which was a smidge under our expected W-L record at 95-67. The horror! Still seven games up on Milwaukee for in second place. A team that overachieved by one win.

But please, tell me about how this team sucks because of Marmol.

Experience is not a prerequisite to be a manager. Vitello has extensive managing experience and Yadi and Albert have gained some as well, in addition to their playing days where they showed managerial qualities even as players. I really like how Anderson managed in Springfield this year. I also put him on the list to show I would rather have our AA manager than Marmol.

Marmol had proven his inability to manage at the big league level. Should have never been given the job to begin with. (As Schild's bench coach, he likely stabbed him in the back to take his seat, but that's a completely different topic.) He simply isn't any good. That's enough for me to want somebody else. (So yeah, I would prefer any other MLB managr to Marmol, since WE KNOW he doesn't have it.)

As far as beating the predictions? Come on, guy! That is not a measurable metric to use to keeping a managing job. Somebody's preseason predictions mean NOTHING. Bottom line is he simply isn't a good MLB manger. Cardinals can do better and should do MUCH better in their next hire.

Heck Strummer, you could probably out manage Marmol!

Vitello has extensive managing experience!? That's a laugh. Then, yeah, I could out manage Marmol, because I coached my nephew's little league team for several seasons! I mean, baseball's baseball, right? No matter if you're coaching 8 year olds, 18 year olds, or 28 year olds with multi-million dollar contracts!

Also, those pre-season metrics DO matter. This isn't coming from some "trust me-bro" in a bar in Chesterfield somewhere. It's from the league website.

Furthermore, the Shildt backstabbing thing should've been put to bed with the controversy this offseason. I loved Shildt, and I hated Mo. But seems like Mo might've had some legit reason to can Shildt, because it sounds like he was more-or-less forced out of the San Diego job for the same reasons why he was canned here. If Marmol was the reason why Shildt got canned, that says a lot more about Mozeliak than it does Marmol.

And again, there's been no such inability proven. There is NO manager who could've taken those teams as constructed over the past three years and done any better with them. They already outperformed predictions. Did Marmol put together a garbage rotation last year that saw Miles Mikolas, Andre Pallante, and Erick Fedde make a large number of starts? Did I miss the part somewhere where he was the guy who made trades and signings?

The last three or four seasons have been garbage. And most of that is on Mo. And now Bloom's gotta clean up back up.

Lot to digest Strummer.

1.) Yeah, I really do think you cpuld outmanage Marmol. No hyperbole here.

2.) Predictions are predictions, regardless of whose website they come from. Predictions carry about as much weight as a feather.....none.

3.) If Marmol did backstab Shildt, then shame on him. You can blame MO of you want, but it still says a lot about Marmol's character as well.

4.) To say NO MANAGER could've done any better is laughable. Sure they could've. This doesn't necessarily mean they would've won playoff series or more, but to say NO ONE could've done better isn't being real.

Look, no argument Marmol hasn't had the best rosters. However, he still has shown nothing as a manager and has shown a lot of poor qualities.

Have you ever talked to the man? A real arrogant piece of work that reeks of a real lack of confidence and borders on little man syndrome. Anyway, Cards can do better and should. Hopefully he is just a placeholder.

1.) Probably couldn't. I never played past high school. I was never, ever in danger of going anywhere beyond that for baseball.

2.) Those are also predictions that are fairly thoughtfully done. Could they be wrong? Clearly. But they don't just pull them out and say "Hey, let's say that the Mets are going to be bad this season." There's no basis for that. Again, this isn't some dude in a bar saying "Bro, trust me, Hunter Dobbins is winning Cy Young this year."

3.) Again, given what we know of Shildt and how he manages his staffs, there's nothing to suggest Marmol backstabbed anybody. You're going on complete conjecture. At worst, and this is going off of the same thing you're going off of--vibes--could have just as easily been Marmol going to Mo and saying "Listen, Mike's been a bit of a tyrant behind the scenes with the rest of us coaches." Again, I loved Shildt while he was here, but the first time is a coincidence, the second time is a pattern.

4.) And no, it's not. Who was the player we were supposed to hang our line-up on? Who was the pitcher who was supposed to anchor the rotation? We didn't have those. And no manager would've turned Erick Fedde or Miles Mikolas into Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling.

Anyway, have a good one. I'm not interested in arguing with someone so dead-set on arguing against stats and facts. There's discussion, and there's wasting time. And I'm doing more of the latter.

[Jeff Goldblum]

For those that think Marmol is that bad. That Marmol is the difference between a 70-92 team and a 92-70 team, who would you like him replaced with? Names. We need names.

That's been the longstanding issue on CT. Some want Oli dumped but never have a short list of replacements . When someone is considered, that manager would look at the 2026 roster and say Wow ! Am I going to turn things around with those kids playing ? I might be in a retirement home by that time.

I don’t disagree. I would just like those that don’t like Oliver to tell me who they would like and how many games that manager would make a difference in the standings.
I don’t love Oliver and I don’t hate him. I don’t think the manager makes that much difference. LaRussa had some horrible seasons. Should he have been replaced?
This also applies to players like Nolan Gorman. You don’t like them, who should take his place? People hate Walker, who should take his place?

No one will give names. They’ll play the I’m not the POBO card, yet they take no issue with calling for firings. They don’t see the irony.
A. There is no manager worth anything that is taking the job with the cardinals in their current state
B. Oli isn’t nearly as bad as some think. They see bad record and have no choice but to say bad manager
C. No manager of the ‘23-‘25 rosters get the cardinals in the playoffs
D. The last two seasons, the cardinals have won more games than their statistics indicate they should have won. Hmmm
E. The overwhelming majority of the time, a bad roster equals bad results, regardless of the manager.

Pujols, Molina, Varitek, and even Joe Maddon are names on here that have been discussed EXTENSIVELY as replacements for the little Oompa Loompa. Schumakers name was brought up nearly every day before he got the job in Texas. Those are just a few guys to plenty of names posters have brought up.

The 3 of you are either oblivious to what goes on around here or just being purposely ignorant to it to better suit an agenda

Francona was discussed nonstop until he took a different job.

[woofy25]

For those that think Marmol is that bad. That Marmol is the difference between a 70-92 team and a 92-70 team, who would you like him replaced with? Names. We need names.

That's been the longstanding issue on CT. Some want Oli dumped but never have a short list of replacements . When someone is considered, that manager would look at the 2026 roster and say Wow ! Am I going to turn things around with those kids playing ? I might be in a retirement home by that time.

I don’t disagree. I would just like those that don’t like Oliver to tell me who they would like and how many games that manager would make a difference in the standings.
I don’t love Oliver and I don’t hate him. I don’t think the manager makes that much difference. LaRussa had some horrible seasons. Should he have been replaced?
This also applies to players like Nolan Gorman. You don’t like them, who should take his place? People hate Walker, who should take his place?

No one will give names. They’ll play the I’m not the POBO card, yet they take no issue with calling for firings. They don’t see the irony.
A. There is no manager worth anything that is taking the job with the cardinals in their current state
B. Oli isn’t nearly as bad as some think. They see bad record and have no choice but to say bad manager
C. No manager of the ‘23-‘25 rosters get the cardinals in the playoffs
D. The last two seasons, the cardinals have won more games than their statistics indicate they should have won. Hmmm
E. The overwhelming majority of the time, a bad roster equals bad results, regardless of the manager.

Pujols, Molina, Varitek, and even Joe Maddon are names on here that have been discussed EXTENSIVELY as replacements for the little Oompa Loompa. Schumakers name was brought up nearly every day before he got the job in Texas. Those are just a few guys to plenty of names posters have brought up.

The 3 of you are either oblivious to what goes on around here or just being purposely ignorant to it to better suit an agenda

Oh, Pujols and Molina. There is literally no evidence those guys would be better. If you want the change b/c they're a name that will draw interest from the fanbase, then fine.

Why would Varitek be better? Maybe he would be, but he's the "Player Information Coach" or "Game Planning Coordinator" with the Red Sox. By what measure would you base an argument that he would be a successful Manager? What are his coaching accomplishments that make you want him? And Joe Maddon? He's 72 and let a potential dynasty with the Cubs die on his watch, after 2016. He hasn't been a successful Manager for almost a decade. This cannot be a serious recommendation.

Seems to me that people are throwing nonsense at the wall.

I'd be fine with Pujols or Yadi, but by no means would I assume they would magically be better at managing games or the team as a whole. It would certainly be intriguing, and having one of their names in every Cardinals article and constantly talked about on local radio would be a boost to fan interest. A move like that certainly wouldn't have any basis in actual managerial skill.

You’re all over the place here…….

You go from “nobody will name names” to “well those names are stupid” when names are named

Then you go to “theres zero evidence proving they will be better than Oli” while providing zero evidence proving oli will be better than them

And THEN you go from calling hiring Yadi or Albert nonsense to saying “I’d be fine with Pujols or Yadi”

Pick a lane, sweetheart

Oh, so sorry, I should have qualified my statement with names AND provide reasons why. I guess I won't take common sense for granted any longer.

Yes, naming names without reasoning is nonsense. I gave mine for why I'd be fine with Yadi or Pujols.

The burden of truth is on the parties wanting to make the change, not the incumbent. Plus, I never advocated for Oli. Those are two, say it with me, common sense reasons why would I don't need to provide evidence of anything regarding Oli. Again, I'll remember the audience, moving forward.

I'm advocating against people calling for Marmol to be fired only b/c the records have been bad. There is rarely, if ever any substance provided on why and what the solution is. Without it, It's just drunken barstool meathead drivel.

The solution, as always of course, is a better roster.

[woofy25]

For those that think Marmol is that bad. That Marmol is the difference between a 70-92 team and a 92-70 team, who would you like him replaced with? Names. We need names.

That's been the longstanding issue on CT. Some want Oli dumped but never have a short list of replacements . When someone is considered, that manager would look at the 2026 roster and say Wow ! Am I going to turn things around with those kids playing ? I might be in a retirement home by that time.

I don’t disagree. I would just like those that don’t like Oliver to tell me who they would like and how many games that manager would make a difference in the standings.
I don’t love Oliver and I don’t hate him. I don’t think the manager makes that much difference. LaRussa had some horrible seasons. Should he have been replaced?
This also applies to players like Nolan Gorman. You don’t like them, who should take his place? People hate Walker, who should take his place?

No one will give names. They’ll play the I’m not the POBO card, yet they take no issue with calling for firings. They don’t see the irony.
A. There is no manager worth anything that is taking the job with the cardinals in their current state

Sure there is. It's still the St. Louis Cardinals[, a storied baseball franchise. Also, there are only 30 MLB jobs. People would be lining up for interviews./b]

B. Oli isn’t nearly as bad as some think. They see bad record and have no choice but to say bad manager

No, he is bad. He consistently doesn't put his players in positions to be successful. He does not know how to set a proper lineup. He has zero in-game "feel". None. He is a drag on this organization.

C. No manager of the ‘23-‘25 rosters get the cardinals in the playoffs

Perhaps not, but doesn't really change the fact that he isn't good.

D. The last two seasons, the cardinals have won more games than their statistics indicate they should have won. Hmmm

So the measurement of how good a manager is, is that they won more than some arbitrary preseason prediction #. Wow.

E. The overwhelming majority of the time, a bad roster equals bad results, regardless of the manager.

Don't disagree with this. However, he provides nothing positive for the team.

Ok, who are those great Managers who can't wait to lead the Cardinals and why would they do a better job?
He has proven that he can at least manage a bullpen.
He should have moved Arenado down in the lineup earlier. No doubt, it was painful and demotivating to see him penciled into the middle of the order when we all knew he was a shell of himself. And no, someone like Burleson is not a 3 or 4 hitter, but someone has to hit there. Again, the roster.

No, them winning more games than the numbers suggest is not based on Pecota or some nonsense like that. It's based on end of year statistics.

You seem to agree that no other manager would have made it to the playoffs '23-'25. In '24 they finished 6 games out of the WC. It seems like an admission that the Manager doesn't materially impact Ws/Ls. And, that is precisely my point.

[Cardinals4Life]

For those that think Marmol is that bad. That Marmol is the difference between a 70-92 team and a 92-70 team, who would you like him replaced with? Names. We need names.

That's been the longstanding issue on CT. Some want Oli dumped but never have a short list of replacements . When someone is considered, that manager would look at the 2026 roster and say Wow ! Am I going to turn things around with those kids playing ? I might be in a retirement home by that time.

I don’t disagree. I would just like those that don’t like Oliver to tell me who they would like and how many games that manager would make a difference in the standings.
I don’t love Oliver and I don’t hate him. I don’t think the manager makes that much difference. LaRussa had some horrible seasons. Should he have been replaced?
This also applies to players like Nolan Gorman. You don’t like them, who should take his place? People hate Walker, who should take his place?

No one will give names. They’ll play the I’m not the POBO card, yet they take no issue with calling for firings. They don’t see the irony.
A. There is no manager worth anything that is taking the job with the cardinals in their current state

Sure there is. It's still the St. Louis Cardinals[, a storied baseball franchise. Also, there are only 30 MLB jobs. People would be lining up for interviews./b]

B. Oli isn’t nearly as bad as some think. They see bad record and have no choice but to say bad manager

No, he is bad. He consistently doesn't put his players in positions to be successful. He does not know how to set a proper lineup. He has zero in-game "feel". None. He is a drag on this organization.

C. No manager of the ‘23-‘25 rosters get the cardinals in the playoffs

Perhaps not, but doesn't really change the fact that he isn't good.

D. The last two seasons, the cardinals have won more games than their statistics indicate they should have won. Hmmm

So the measurement of how good a manager is, is that they won more than some arbitrary preseason prediction #. Wow.

E. The overwhelming majority of the time, a bad roster equals bad results, regardless of the manager.

Don't disagree with this. However, he provides nothing positive for the team.

Ok, who are those great Managers who can't wait to lead the Cardinals and why would they do a better job?
He has proven that he can at least manage a bullpen.
He should have moved Arenado down in the lineup earlier. No doubt, it was painful and demotivating to see him penciled into the middle of the order when we all knew he was a shell of himself. And no, someone like Burleson is not a 3 or 4 hitter, but someone has to hit there. Again, the roster.

No, them winning more games than the numbers suggest is not based on Pecota or some nonsense like that. It's based on end of year statistics.

You seem to agree that no other manager would have made it to the playoffs '23-'25. In '24 they finished 6 games out of the WC. It seems like an admission that the Manager doesn't materially impact Ws/Ls. And, that is precisely my point.

Marmol has shown to be inept in so many areas it isn't funny. I listed an entire list on a different thread. He just isn't MLB-caliber.

Also, there are no accurate statistics that tell you what your record should have been. That's a load of c r a p.

[woofy25]

For those that think Marmol is that bad. That Marmol is the difference between a 70-92 team and a 92-70 team, who would you like him replaced with? Names. We need names.

That's been the longstanding issue on CT. Some want Oli dumped but never have a short list of replacements . When someone is considered, that manager would look at the 2026 roster and say Wow ! Am I going to turn things around with those kids playing ? I might be in a retirement home by that time.

I don’t disagree. I would just like those that don’t like Oliver to tell me who they would like and how many games that manager would make a difference in the standings.
I don’t love Oliver and I don’t hate him. I don’t think the manager makes that much difference. LaRussa had some horrible seasons. Should he have been replaced?
This also applies to players like Nolan Gorman. You don’t like them, who should take his place? People hate Walker, who should take his place?

No one will give names. They’ll play the I’m not the POBO card, yet they take no issue with calling for firings. They don’t see the irony.
A. There is no manager worth anything that is taking the job with the cardinals in their current state

Sure there is. It's still the St. Louis Cardinals[, a storied baseball franchise. Also, there are only 30 MLB jobs. People would be lining up for interviews./b]

B. Oli isn’t nearly as bad as some think. They see bad record and have no choice but to say bad manager

No, he is bad. He consistently doesn't put his players in positions to be successful. He does not know how to set a proper lineup. He has zero in-game "feel". None. He is a drag on this organization.

C. No manager of the ‘23-‘25 rosters get the cardinals in the playoffs

Perhaps not, but doesn't really change the fact that he isn't good.

D. The last two seasons, the cardinals have won more games than their statistics indicate they should have won. Hmmm

So the measurement of how good a manager is, is that they won more than some arbitrary preseason prediction #. Wow.

E. The overwhelming majority of the time, a bad roster equals bad results, regardless of the manager.

Don't disagree with this. However, he provides nothing positive for the team.

Ok, who are those great Managers who can't wait to lead the Cardinals and why would they do a better job?
He has proven that he can at least manage a bullpen.
He should have moved Arenado down in the lineup earlier. No doubt, it was painful and demotivating to see him penciled into the middle of the order when we all knew he was a shell of himself. And no, someone like Burleson is not a 3 or 4 hitter, but someone has to hit there. Again, the roster.

No, them winning more games than the numbers suggest is not based on Pecota or some nonsense like that. It's based on end of year statistics.

You seem to agree that no other manager would have made it to the playoffs '23-'25. In '24 they finished 6 games out of the WC. It seems like an admission that the Manager doesn't materially impact Ws/Ls. And, that is precisely my point.

Marmol has shown to be inept in so many areas it isn't funny. I listed an entire list on a different thread. He just isn't MLB-caliber.

Also, there are no accurate statistics that tell you what your record should have been. That's a load of c r a p.

Ok, they scored 47 fewer runs than they gave up in 2024 and finished with 84 wins. Based on the cumulative total of the thousands of seasons played, a team with that run differential typically wins about 76 games. If you don't believe in that stat, then all good. Everybody thinks of stats a little differently. To me, that's a basic calculation that makes sense. It tells me they lost a disproportionate amount of lopsided games and/or won a disproportionate amount of close games. If they won more close games than normal, at least some of the credit goes to the coaching staff, one would think.

IDK, maybe it was just plain luck.

[Banner29]

For those that think Marmol is that bad. That Marmol is the difference between a 70-92 team and a 92-70 team, who would you like him replaced with? Names. We need names.

That's been the longstanding issue on CT. Some want Oli dumped but never have a short list of replacements . When someone is considered, that manager would look at the 2026 roster and say Wow ! Am I going to turn things around with those kids playing ? I might be in a retirement home by that time.

I don’t disagree. I would just like those that don’t like Oliver to tell me who they would like and how many games that manager would make a difference in the standings.
I don’t love Oliver and I don’t hate him. I don’t think the manager makes that much difference. LaRussa had some horrible seasons. Should he have been replaced?
This also applies to players like Nolan Gorman. You don’t like them, who should take his place? People hate Walker, who should take his place?

No one will give names. They’ll play the I’m not the POBO card, yet they take no issue with calling for firings. They don’t see the irony.
A. There is no manager worth anything that is taking the job with the cardinals in their current state
B. Oli isn’t nearly as bad as some think. They see bad record and have no choice but to say bad manager
C. No manager of the ‘23-‘25 rosters get the cardinals in the playoffs
D. The last two seasons, the cardinals have won more games than their statistics indicate they should have won. Hmmm
E. The overwhelming majority of the time, a bad roster equals bad results, regardless of the manager.

Pujols, Molina, Varitek, and even Joe Maddon are names on here that have been discussed EXTENSIVELY as replacements for the little Oompa Loompa. Schumakers name was brought up nearly every day before he got the job in Texas. Those are just a few guys to plenty of names posters have brought up.

The 3 of you are either oblivious to what goes on around here or just being purposely ignorant to it to better suit an agenda

Oh, Pujols and Molina. There is literally no evidence those guys would be better. If you want the change b/c they're a name that will draw interest from the fanbase, then fine.

Why would Varitek be better? Maybe he would be, but he's the "Player Information Coach" or "Game Planning Coordinator" with the Red Sox. By what measure would you base an argument that he would be a successful Manager? What are his coaching accomplishments that make you want him? And Joe Maddon? He's 72 and let a potential dynasty with the Cubs die on his watch, after 2016. He hasn't been a successful Manager for almost a decade. This cannot be a serious recommendation.

Seems to me that people are throwing nonsense at the wall.

I'd be fine with Pujols or Yadi, but by no means would I assume they would magically be better at managing games or the team as a whole. It would certainly be intriguing, and having one of their names in every Cardinals article and constantly talked about on local radio would be a boost to fan interest. A move like that certainly wouldn't have any basis in actual managerial skill.

You’re all over the place here…….

You go from “nobody will name names” to “well those names are stupid” when names are named

Then you go to “theres zero evidence proving they will be better than Oli” while providing zero evidence proving oli will be better than them

And THEN you go from calling hiring Yadi or Albert nonsense to saying “I’d be fine with Pujols or Yadi”

Pick a lane, sweetheart

Oh, so sorry, I should have qualified my statement with names AND provide reasons why. I guess I won't take common sense for granted any longer.

Yes, naming names without reasoning is nonsense. I gave mine for why I'd be fine with Yadi or Pujols.

The burden of truth is on the parties wanting to make the change, not the incumbent. Plus, I never advocated for Oli. Those are two, say it with me, common sense reasons why would I don't need to provide evidence of anything regarding Oli. Again, I'll remember the audience, moving forward.

I'm advocating against people calling for Marmol to be fired only b/c the records have been bad. There is rarely, if ever any substance provided on why and what the solution is. Without it, It's just drunken barstool meathead drivel.

The solution, as always of course, is a better roster.

So now we have gone from “nobody will name names” to “they aren’t giving evidence to why those names would be better”

I can already tell this is going to be pointless conversation with you because no matter what it’s just gonna turn into “yeah well…..you didn’t do(insert new reason)”

I’ve argued with enough females in my lifetime to not know when to just save my breath. Thoughts and prayers to your husband

[Cardinals1964]

For those that think Marmol is that bad. That Marmol is the difference between a 70-92 team and a 92-70 team, who would you like him replaced with? Names. We need names.

That's been the longstanding issue on CT. Some want Oli dumped but never have a short list of replacements . When someone is considered, that manager would look at the 2026 roster and say Wow ! Am I going to turn things around with those kids playing ? I might be in a retirement home by that time.

I don’t disagree. I would just like those that don’t like Oliver to tell me who they would like and how many games that manager would make a difference in the standings.
I don’t love Oliver and I don’t hate him. I don’t think the manager makes that much difference. LaRussa had some horrible seasons. Should he have been replaced?
This also applies to players like Nolan Gorman. You don’t like them, who should take his place? People hate Walker, who should take his place?

No one will give names. They’ll play the I’m not the POBO card, yet they take no issue with calling for firings. They don’t see the irony.
A. There is no manager worth anything that is taking the job with the cardinals in their current state
B. Oli isn’t nearly as bad as some think. They see bad record and have no choice but to say bad manager
C. No manager of the ‘23-‘25 rosters get the cardinals in the playoffs
D. The last two seasons, the cardinals have won more games than their statistics indicate they should have won. Hmmm
E. The overwhelming majority of the time, a bad roster equals bad results, regardless of the manager.

Pujols, Molina, Varitek, and even Joe Maddon are names on here that have been discussed EXTENSIVELY as replacements for the little Oompa Loompa. Schumakers name was brought up nearly every day before he got the job in Texas. Those are just a few guys to plenty of names posters have brought up.

The 3 of you are either oblivious to what goes on around here or just being purposely ignorant to it to better suit an agenda

What qualifies Pujols and Molina to be managers? I would love to see Molina as the manager. I think he will be the next manager. But, what do we have to go off of that he would be a good manager? How many more games would Molina win over Marmol?

Joe Madden was horrible with the Angels. So that proves that not even somebody considered to be a great manager is going to make a bad team good.

What has Jason Varitek done?

[Cardinals1964]

Cards need someone outside the organization...been saying that since Shildt was hired.

Who and how many more wins do you think that person will add in the standings?

[woofy25]

For those that think Marmol is that bad. That Marmol is the difference between a 70-92 team and a 92-70 team, who would you like him replaced with? Names. We need names.

That's been the longstanding issue on CT. Some want Oli dumped but never have a short list of replacements . When someone is considered, that manager would look at the 2026 roster and say Wow ! Am I going to turn things around with those kids playing ? I might be in a retirement home by that time.

I don’t disagree. I would just like those that don’t like Oliver to tell me who they would like and how many games that manager would make a difference in the standings.
I don’t love Oliver and I don’t hate him. I don’t think the manager makes that much difference. LaRussa had some horrible seasons. Should he have been replaced?
This also applies to players like Nolan Gorman. You don’t like them, who should take his place? People hate Walker, who should take his place?

No one will give names. They’ll play the I’m not the POBO card, yet they take no issue with calling for firings. They don’t see the irony.
A. There is no manager worth anything that is taking the job with the cardinals in their current state
B. Oli isn’t nearly as bad as some think. They see bad record and have no choice but to say bad manager
C. No manager of the ‘23-‘25 rosters get the cardinals in the playoffs
D. The last two seasons, the cardinals have won more games than their statistics indicate they should have won. Hmmm
E. The overwhelming majority of the time, a bad roster equals bad results, regardless of the manager.

Pujols, Molina, Varitek, and even Joe Maddon are names on here that have been discussed EXTENSIVELY as replacements for the little Oompa Loompa. Schumakers name was brought up nearly every day before he got the job in Texas. Those are just a few guys to plenty of names posters have brought up.

The 3 of you are either oblivious to what goes on around here or just being purposely ignorant to it to better suit an agenda

Oh, Pujols and Molina. There is literally no evidence those guys would be better. If you want the change b/c they're a name that will draw interest from the fanbase, then fine.

Why would Varitek be better? Maybe he would be, but he's the "Player Information Coach" or "Game Planning Coordinator" with the Red Sox. By what measure would you base an argument that he would be a successful Manager? What are his coaching accomplishments that make you want him? And Joe Maddon? He's 72 and let a potential dynasty with the Cubs die on his watch, after 2016. He hasn't been a successful Manager for almost a decade. This cannot be a serious recommendation.

Seems to me that people are throwing nonsense at the wall.

I'd be fine with Pujols or Yadi, but by no means would I assume they would magically be better at managing games or the team as a whole. It would certainly be intriguing, and having one of their names in every Cardinals article and constantly talked about on local radio would be a boost to fan interest. A move like that certainly wouldn't have any basis in actual managerial skill.

You’re all over the place here…….

You go from “nobody will name names” to “well those names are stupid” when names are named

Then you go to “theres zero evidence proving they will be better than Oli” while providing zero evidence proving oli will be better than them

And THEN you go from calling hiring Yadi or Albert nonsense to saying “I’d be fine with Pujols or Yadi”

Pick a lane, sweetheart

Oh, so sorry, I should have qualified my statement with names AND provide reasons why. I guess I won't take common sense for granted any longer.

Yes, naming names without reasoning is nonsense. I gave mine for why I'd be fine with Yadi or Pujols.

The burden of truth is on the parties wanting to make the change, not the incumbent. Plus, I never advocated for Oli. Those are two, say it with me, common sense reasons why would I don't need to provide evidence of anything regarding Oli. Again, I'll remember the audience, moving forward.

I'm advocating against people calling for Marmol to be fired only b/c the records have been bad. There is rarely, if ever any substance provided on why and what the solution is. Without it, It's just drunken barstool meathead drivel.

The solution, as always of course, is a better roster.

So now we have gone from “nobody will name names” to “they aren’t giving evidence to why those names would be better”

I can already tell this is going to be pointless conversation with you because no matter what it’s just gonna turn into “yeah well…..you didn’t do(insert new reason)”

I’ve argued with enough females in my lifetime to not know when to just save my breath. Thoughts and prayers to your husband

Aw shucks. Some tough guy on the internet is calling me a girl. You've made the same argument twice, even though I clearly explained my blunder regarding the assumption of common sense. I'm admitting my mistake. Will not happen again. At what grade level would you prefer people to respond to your posts?