jbrach wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 20:09 pm
he is slow as all hell...for the record ozuna was a gold glover early on....we shall see I guess
He was a gold glover because of his bat, as many GG winners were over the years. Sure, the award is supposed to be about defense only, but it's been obvious to any fan how many times the bat was what the vote was about.
If you watch high lightsnof ozuna as a marlin, he actually did play.much better defense, was faster as he hadnt gained a ton of weight yet, and even had 10 outfield assists in a season
He got fat and lazy with us losing his speed and abiljty to throw out runners. I cant explain why he totally lost all abiljty to judge flyballs too making 2 embarrassing plays where henjumpednup on wall only for ball to fall short but it happened
I'll grant that, but there is no way in hell the season he did win one was based solely on his glove - it's shocking he won his only gold glove in his best season at the plate(aside from the SSS covid-2020 season).
That aside, jbrach's words make it seem like he was a regular GG winner, early in his career, when the guy was only awarded one. He won A(single) GG, he wasn't a gold glover.
he did win a gold glove so he was indeed a gold glover...the only reason I mention it is because peopel were comparing ozuna to herrera in the outfield
jbrach wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 20:09 pm
he is slow as all hell...for the record ozuna was a gold glover early on....we shall see I guess
Herrera isnt slow as hell. His average sprint time this yeat is 26.5 despite dealing with knee and hamstring injuries. Mlb average sprint sleed is 27.0. He averaged 27 3 last season. Healing from injuries and not catching likely increases that speed
He already has 3 stolen bases despite being injured a chunk of the year. He stole 5 bases last year. Hes not a speedster but he isnt slow and about average.
Hes been faster than gorman arenado donovan pages burleson and pozo this year.
Last edited by Wattage on 29 Jul 2025 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
From L. Brock to L. Smith to C. Duncan to A. Burleson we've seen (likely) worse OF'ers play out there.
D. Kingman-G. Luzinski-TGKS.
As long as he hits, then this is a great move!
What about DRS or WAR……oh My !!!
If he puts up an .800+ OPS and drives in 80+ runs, who cares!
if he has an 800 OPS and is a butcher in the outfield everyone will care...if he has a 1000 OPS they wont
The kid is reasonably athletic. I'm sure he will learn to be an adequate left fielder. The problem is that should happen in spring training. We shall see how fast he learns in the middle of the season. I realize that some guys never learned to track fly balls, but most guys can play a passable left field. Look at Burley. I would expect Herrera to be at least at that level eventually. The question is how fast can he get there? This team isn't going anywhere, even if they make the final wild card by some fluke. So it's not like it will be a huge deal if Herrera costs them a game with a bad play.
Agreed
If you're old enough to have seen Kingman and Luzinski, then Ivan looks like an Olympic gymnast compared to those two big lugs.
If he hits, then we can live w/a few misplays.
But I'd be willing to bet he's no worse than a -1 or -2 DRS, maybe even a league average 0 DRS!
jbrach wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 20:09 pm
he is slow as all hell...for the record ozuna was a gold glover early on....we shall see I guess
He was a gold glover because of his bat, as many GG winners were over the years. Sure, the award is supposed to be about defense only, but it's been obvious to any fan how many times the bat was what the vote was about.
If you watch high lightsnof ozuna as a marlin, he actually did play.much better defense, was faster as he hadnt gained a ton of weight yet, and even had 10 outfield assists in a season
He got fat and lazy with us losing his speed and abiljty to throw out runners. I cant explain why he totally lost all abiljty to judge flyballs too making 2 embarrassing plays where henjumpednup on wall only for ball to fall short but it happened
His bat did help him win which is stupid bit true....but his arm is what also helped him...he had a cannon at one time
KeeptheRamsinSTL wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 20:06 pm
I believe that he can play outfield. It might take a bit for him to adjust but he will be fine. The Cardinals need his bat and this gives Herrera a better chance of staying healthy.
Isn't DH healthier than playing OF when you haven't done it?
From L. Brock to L. Smith to C. Duncan to A. Burleson we've seen (likely) worse OF'ers play out there.
D. Kingman-G. Luzinski-TGKS.
As long as he hits, then this is a great move!
What about DRS or WAR……oh My !!!
If he puts up an .800+ OPS and drives in 80+ runs, who cares!
if he has an 800 OPS and is a butcher in the outfield everyone will care...if he has a 1000 OPS they wont
The kid is reasonably athletic. I'm sure he will learn to be an adequate left fielder. The problem is that should happen in spring training. We shall see how fast he learns in the middle of the season. I realize that some guys never learned to track fly balls, but most guys can play a passable left field. Look at Burley. I would expect Herrera to be at least at that level eventually. The question is how fast can he get there? This team isn't going anywhere, even if they make the final wild card by some fluke. So it's not like it will be a huge deal if Herrera costs them a game with a bad play.
Agreed
If you're old enough to have seen Kingman and Luzinski, then Ivan looks like an Olympic gymnast compared to those two big lugs.
If he hits, then we can live w/a few misplays.
But I'd be willing to bet he's no worse than a -1 or -2 DRS, maybe even a league average 0 DRS!
King Kong? Yeah I am old enough. Haven't thought about him in years!
jbrach wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 20:09 pm
he is slow as all hell...for the record ozuna was a gold glover early on....we shall see I guess
Herrera isnt slow as hell. His average sprint time this yeat is 26.5 despite dealing with knee and hamstring injuries. Mlb average sprint sleed is 27.0. He averaged 27 3 last season. Healing from injuries and not catching likely increases that speed
He already has 3 stolen bases despite being injured a chunk of the year. He stole 5 bases last year. Hes not a speedster but he isnt slow and about average.
Hes been faster than gorman arenado donovan pages burleson and pozo this year.
Basically the same as Ian Happ (27.3) and Steven Kwan (26.9) who both won gold gloves last year
From L. Brock to L. Smith to C. Duncan to A. Burleson we've seen (likely) worse OF'ers play out there.
D. Kingman-G. Luzinski-TGKS.
As long as he hits, then this is a great move!
What about DRS or WAR……oh My !!!
If he puts up an .800+ OPS and drives in 80+ runs, who cares!
if he has an 800 OPS and is a butcher in the outfield everyone will care...if he has a 1000 OPS they wont
The kid is reasonably athletic. I'm sure he will learn to be an adequate left fielder. The problem is that should happen in spring training. We shall see how fast he learns in the middle of the season. I realize that some guys never learned to track fly balls, but most guys can play a passable left field. Look at Burley. I would expect Herrera to be at least at that level eventually. The question is how fast can he get there? This team isn't going anywhere, even if they make the final wild card by some fluke. So it's not like it will be a huge deal if Herrera costs them a game with a bad play.
Agreed
If you're old enough to have seen Kingman and Luzinski, then Ivan looks like an Olympic gymnast compared to those two big lugs.
If he hits, then we can live w/a few misplays.
But I'd be willing to bet he's no worse than a -1 or -2 DRS, maybe even a league average 0 DRS!
King Kong? Yeah I am old enough. Haven't thought about him in years!
Hr or a KO , he'd fit right in today and make $30M AAV!
From L. Brock to L. Smith to C. Duncan to A. Burleson we've seen (likely) worse OF'ers play out there.
D. Kingman-G. Luzinski-TGKS.
As long as he hits, then this is a great move!
What about DRS or WAR……oh My !!!
If he puts up an .800+ OPS and drives in 80+ runs, who cares!
if he has an 800 OPS and is a butcher in the outfield everyone will care...if he has a 1000 OPS they wont
The kid is reasonably athletic. I'm sure he will learn to be an adequate left fielder. The problem is that should happen in spring training. We shall see how fast he learns in the middle of the season. I realize that some guys never learned to track fly balls, but most guys can play a passable left field. Look at Burley. I would expect Herrera to be at least at that level eventually. The question is how fast can he get there? This team isn't going anywhere, even if they make the final wild card by some fluke. So it's not like it will be a huge deal if Herrera costs them a game with a bad play.
Agreed
If you're old enough to have seen Kingman and Luzinski, then Ivan looks like an Olympic gymnast compared to those two big lugs.
If he hits, then we can live w/a few misplays.
But I'd be willing to bet he's no worse than a -1 or -2 DRS, maybe even a league average 0 DRS!
King Kong? Yeah I am old enough. Haven't thought about him in years!
Hr or a KO , he'd fit right in today and make $30M AAV!
From L. Brock to L. Smith to C. Duncan to A. Burleson we've seen (likely) worse OF'ers play out there.
D. Kingman-G. Luzinski-TGKS.
As long as he hits, then this is a great move!
What about DRS or WAR……oh My !!!
If he puts up an .800+ OPS and drives in 80+ runs, who cares!
if he has an 800 OPS and is a butcher in the outfield everyone will care...if he has a 1000 OPS they wont
The kid is reasonably athletic. I'm sure he will learn to be an adequate left fielder. The problem is that should happen in spring training. We shall see how fast he learns in the middle of the season. I realize that some guys never learned to track fly balls, but most guys can play a passable left field. Look at Burley. I would expect Herrera to be at least at that level eventually. The question is how fast can he get there? This team isn't going anywhere, even if they make the final wild card by some fluke. So it's not like it will be a huge deal if Herrera costs them a game with a bad play.
Agreed
If you're old enough to have seen Kingman and Luzinski, then Ivan looks like an Olympic gymnast compared to those two big lugs.
If he hits, then we can live w/a few misplays.
But I'd be willing to bet he's no worse than a -1 or -2 DRS, maybe even a league average 0 DRS!
King Kong? Yeah I am old enough. Haven't thought about him in years!
Hr or a KO , he'd fit right in today and make $30M AAV!
