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Re: Attendance, worse than Rocks
Posted: 10 Jul 2025 11:51 am
by Ozziesfan41
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 11:48 am
hotrivets wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 11:40 am
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 11:36 am
hotrivets wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 11:27 am
The owners basically said things will get worse unless fan support gets better. Hard to come back from that. What a horrible business philosophy and how stupid to admit it.
It will take a decade to rebuild because the farm system needs so much work.
Agree with the statement about the owners. This is why they are failing in the marketplace.
Disagree with your take on the farm system. While I wouldn't call the system "deep", there are some meaningful prospects there, we are seeing some improvement already on the development front, and there are some smarter people coming into the building. My outlook is more favorable than yours.
I think it is improving for sure but not nearly as deep as it used to be. Maybe it was unrealistic to expect that to continue. If you aren't willing to pay market prices for talent (which are obscene for sure) you need to have an unbelievable pipeline to compete. If you build that farm system other teams will steal your staff. There is no solution for big spending in pro sports except for salary caps or more aggressive revenue sharing.
Very well stated. If the Cardinals improved their spending to $200 million, like many posters want, it would look like this -
Dodgers - $337 million
Mets - $331 million
Yankees - $290 million
Phillies - $279 million
Blue Jays - $246 million
Astros - $221 million
Rangers - $219 million
Braves - $212 million
Padres - $209 million
Cards - $200 million
Problem solved?
As long as they have a competent GM and POBO yes
Re: Attendance, worse than Rocks
Posted: 10 Jul 2025 11:57 am
by WLTFE
desertrat23 wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 11:30 am
hotrivets wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 11:27 am
The owners basically said things will get worse unless fan support gets better. Hard to come back from that. What a horrible business philosophy and how stupid to admit it.
It will take a decade to rebuild because the farm system needs so much work.
They’re going to lose a ton of money this year, and every dime they lose is a dime they deserve to lose.
Exactly...and it won't affect DeTwit and Mo-ran who are rich and apparently oblivious to what the fans are telling them...I'm guessing the front office sycophants will soon be putting their money where their mouths are and filling the stadium?...it's easy to blame fans who are not wanting to spend money on a boring product.
Re: Attendance, worse than Rocks
Posted: 10 Jul 2025 11:59 am
by Rojo Johnson
HOUCARD wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 10:46 am
Lots of Cardinal fans come from out of town. If the team is not particularly entertaining, I suspect they find other things to do. Also might be an issue with degradation of downtown. I don't know. I quit my annual visit to St. Louis years ago (when the train started service to the Galleria)
I come to visit my sister in the StL area. She always asks if I want to go to a game and my answer has been “no” for several years now. I figure Cranny can cover for me. No way I’m supporting anyone who employs an incompetent narcissist jerk like Moe.
Re: Attendance, worse than Rocks
Posted: 10 Jul 2025 12:06 pm
by Cranny
Rojo Johnson wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 11:59 am
HOUCARD wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 10:46 am
Lots of Cardinal fans come from out of town. If the team is not particularly entertaining, I suspect they find other things to do. Also might be an issue with degradation of downtown. I don't know. I quit my annual visit to St. Louis years ago (when the train started service to the Galleria)
I come to visit my sister in the StL area. She always asks if I want to go to a game and my answer has been “no” for several years now. I figure Cranny can cover for me. No way I’m supporting anyone who employs an incompetent narcissist jerk like Moe.
"incompetent narcissist jerk like Moe". Tell me Rojo, have you reached the same executive level as Mo in your career?
Re: Attendance, worse than Rocks
Posted: 10 Jul 2025 12:11 pm
by NorthernBird
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 12:06 pm
Rojo Johnson wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 11:59 am
HOUCARD wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 10:46 am
Lots of Cardinal fans come from out of town. If the team is not particularly entertaining, I suspect they find other things to do. Also might be an issue with degradation of downtown. I don't know. I quit my annual visit to St. Louis years ago (when the train started service to the Galleria)
I come to visit my sister in the StL area. She always asks if I want to go to a game and my answer has been “no” for several years now. I figure Cranny can cover for me. No way I’m supporting anyone who employs an incompetent narcissist jerk like Moe.
"incompetent narcissist jerk like Moe". Tell me Rojo, have you reached the same executive level as Mo in your career?
Have you ever had opinions about US Congress people and Presidents? Have you ever been a US Congress person or President?
Re: Attendance, worse than Rocks
Posted: 10 Jul 2025 12:11 pm
by Talkin' Baseball
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 12:06 pm
Rojo Johnson wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 11:59 am
HOUCARD wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 10:46 am
Lots of Cardinal fans come from out of town. If the team is not particularly entertaining, I suspect they find other things to do. Also might be an issue with degradation of downtown. I don't know. I quit my annual visit to St. Louis years ago (when the train started service to the Galleria)
I come to visit my sister in the StL area. She always asks if I want to go to a game and my answer has been “no” for several years now. I figure Cranny can cover for me. No way I’m supporting anyone who employs an incompetent narcissist jerk like Moe.
"incompetent narcissist jerk like Moe". Tell me Rojo, have you reached the same executive level as Mo in your career?
What could that possibly have to do with being a jerk, or a narcissist?
Re: Attendance, worse than Rocks
Posted: 10 Jul 2025 12:14 pm
by Rojo Johnson
Ordinary Man wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 11:12 am
desertrat23 wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 11:09 am
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 10:35 am
Jatalk wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 10:26 am
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 09:56 am
45s wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 09:54 am
Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 09:50 am
“The #STLCards' attendance numbers continue to be an issue
They rank 15th in average tickets sold per home game -- selling fewer than the 21-71 Rockies”
Positive step toward change
Actually, it’s not supporting the players.
Then how do fans ever have a voice?
That’s a very good point. It all depends on expectations. Since the Cardinals have been one of the most successful teams in baseball over a long period of time, the fans expect it. But it may be harder to do now with the big market teams going nuts on payroll. All you can do is bulk up the development system which produces better players on paper. Some of those can be used as trade chips.
Nonsense. It is NOT "all you can do." It's "all they're willing to do."
This!
Cranny thinks all of us are stupid and I resent the hell out of that. His posts have gotten totally bizarre lately. Is he losing his mind?
Re: Attendance, worse than Rocks
Posted: 10 Jul 2025 12:16 pm
by Cranny
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 12:11 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 12:06 pm
Rojo Johnson wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 11:59 am
HOUCARD wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 10:46 am
Lots of Cardinal fans come from out of town. If the team is not particularly entertaining, I suspect they find other things to do. Also might be an issue with degradation of downtown. I don't know. I quit my annual visit to St. Louis years ago (when the train started service to the Galleria)
I come to visit my sister in the StL area. She always asks if I want to go to a game and my answer has been “no” for several years now. I figure Cranny can cover for me. No way I’m supporting anyone who employs an incompetent narcissist jerk like Moe.
"incompetent narcissist jerk like Moe". Tell me Rojo, have you reached the same executive level as Mo in your career?
What could that possibly have to do with being a jerk, or a narcissist?
People who are bitter about management are generally those who are jealous.
Re: Attendance, worse than Rocks
Posted: 10 Jul 2025 12:24 pm
by Alex Reyes Cy Young
Moe crashed Dads Porsche
Re: Attendance, worse than Rocks
Posted: 10 Jul 2025 12:30 pm
by Bob Kunush
45s wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 10:10 am
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 09:56 am
45s wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 09:54 am
Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 09:50 am
“The #STLCards' attendance numbers continue to be an issue
They rank 15th in average tickets sold per home game -- selling fewer than the 21-71 Rockies”
Positive step toward change
Actually, it’s not supporting the players.
Supporting the players?
These guys are mercenaries….if they can get a better deal somewhere else they are out of here like a fat rat….
Professional athletes are well paid……that’s all the support they deserve..
They are not robots. They are people. Of course they are paid well less than 1000 people in the world do what they do in a billion dollar business. Wirh attitudes like yours they should play like they feel and say screw the fans they dont care about us why should we care about them.
People who equate money to removing human emotion never had any and are likely just jealous of those thst do.
Stay home if you want its your choice and the team no longer has the type of players people want to see or more would go. The players who are here have noticed the lack of support for their efforts. They have played about as well as they can with their talent. They are just not a complellng team to watch.
Re: Attendance, worse than Rocks
Posted: 10 Jul 2025 12:31 pm
by Talkin' Baseball
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 12:16 pm
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 12:11 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 12:06 pm
Rojo Johnson wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 11:59 am
HOUCARD wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 10:46 am
Lots of Cardinal fans come from out of town. If the team is not particularly entertaining, I suspect they find other things to do. Also might be an issue with degradation of downtown. I don't know. I quit my annual visit to St. Louis years ago (when the train started service to the Galleria)
I come to visit my sister in the StL area. She always asks if I want to go to a game and my answer has been “no” for several years now. I figure Cranny can cover for me. No way I’m supporting anyone who employs an incompetent narcissist jerk like Moe.
"incompetent narcissist jerk like Moe". Tell me Rojo, have you reached the same executive level as Mo in your career?
What could that possibly have to do with being a jerk, or a narcissist?
People who are bitter about management are generally those who are jealous.
I can make an unfavorable assessment of something without being bitter, or jealous. I'm in business. I do it everyday.
Re: Attendance, worse than Rocks
Posted: 10 Jul 2025 12:32 pm
by NorthernBird
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 12:16 pm
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 12:11 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 12:06 pm
Rojo Johnson wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 11:59 am
HOUCARD wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 10:46 am
Lots of Cardinal fans come from out of town. If the team is not particularly entertaining, I suspect they find other things to do. Also might be an issue with degradation of downtown. I don't know. I quit my annual visit to St. Louis years ago (when the train started service to the Galleria)
I come to visit my sister in the StL area. She always asks if I want to go to a game and my answer has been “no” for several years now. I figure Cranny can cover for me. No way I’m supporting anyone who employs an incompetent narcissist jerk like Moe.
"incompetent narcissist jerk like Moe". Tell me Rojo, have you reached the same executive level as Mo in your career?
What could that possibly have to do with being a jerk, or a narcissist?
People who are bitter about management are generally those who are jealous.
That's an idiotic assessment - and my saying that does not indicate my being jealous of you.
Re: Attendance, worse than Rocks
Posted: 10 Jul 2025 12:44 pm
by Rojo Johnson
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 12:06 pm
Rojo Johnson wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 11:59 am
HOUCARD wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 10:46 am
Lots of Cardinal fans come from out of town. If the team is not particularly entertaining, I suspect they find other things to do. Also might be an issue with degradation of downtown. I don't know. I quit my annual visit to St. Louis years ago (when the train started service to the Galleria)
I come to visit my sister in the StL area. She always asks if I want to go to a game and my answer has been “no” for several years now. I figure Cranny can cover for me. No way I’m supporting anyone who employs an incompetent narcissist jerk like Moe.
"incompetent narcissist jerk like Moe". Tell me Rojo, have you reached the same executive level as Mo in your career?
First, that is beside the point, CraNny. Second, it’s really none of your business. What I have accomplished or not accomplished in my life is not for scrutiny by you or others on this forum and if I didn’t know you from your postings on this forum I would be shocked that you would ask such a question. Unfortunately , your question fits in with your juvenile persona and is not surprising at all. Third, you should be smart enough to realize Moe is a person in the public eye and he is fair game for criticism. Unfortunately, you are not that smart. Finally, neither I nor anyone else on this forum has to pass a test with you grading the paper before we can criticize anyone associated with the Cardinals. In short, you can kiss my donkey old codger. Start posting like you know your own age.
Re: Attendance, worse than Rocks
Posted: 10 Jul 2025 12:49 pm
by blackinkbiz
This happens in every business relationship when a product owner cuts corners to increase profits and lets their product quality degrade, assuming their customers' loyalty outweighs their demand for quality. The FO has been making bad decisions for a decade and it's finally caught up with them.
Re: Attendance, worse than Rocks
Posted: 10 Jul 2025 12:52 pm
by Cranny
Rojo Johnson wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 12:44 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 12:06 pm
Rojo Johnson wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 11:59 am
HOUCARD wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 10:46 am
Lots of Cardinal fans come from out of town. If the team is not particularly entertaining, I suspect they find other things to do. Also might be an issue with degradation of downtown. I don't know. I quit my annual visit to St. Louis years ago (when the train started service to the Galleria)
I come to visit my sister in the StL area. She always asks if I want to go to a game and my answer has been “no” for several years now. I figure Cranny can cover for me. No way I’m supporting anyone who employs an incompetent narcissist jerk like Moe.
"incompetent narcissist jerk like Moe". Tell me Rojo, have you reached the same executive level as Mo in your career?
First, that is beside the point, CraNny. Second, it’s really none of your business. What I have accomplished or not accomplished in my life is not for scrutiny by you or others on this forum and if I didn’t know you from your postings on this forum I would be shocked that you would ask such a question. Unfortunately , your question fits in with your juvenile persona and is not surprising at all. Third, you should be smart enough to realize Moe is a person in the public eye and he is fair game for criticism. Unfortunately, you are not that smart. Finally, neither I nor anyone else on this forum has to pass a test with you grading the paper before we can criticize anyone associated with the Cardinals. In short, you can kiss my donkey old codger. Start posting like you know your own age.
Thanks, Rojo. A fine, constructive post as usual. So sorry to be "juvenile" and "not smart". I yield to your greater maturity and intelligence.
Re: Attendance, worse than Rocks
Posted: 10 Jul 2025 12:55 pm
by Cranny
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 12:31 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 12:16 pm
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 12:11 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 12:06 pm
Rojo Johnson wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 11:59 am
HOUCARD wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 10:46 am
Lots of Cardinal fans come from out of town. If the team is not particularly entertaining, I suspect they find other things to do. Also might be an issue with degradation of downtown. I don't know. I quit my annual visit to St. Louis years ago (when the train started service to the Galleria)
I come to visit my sister in the StL area. She always asks if I want to go to a game and my answer has been “no” for several years now. I figure Cranny can cover for me. No way I’m supporting anyone who employs an incompetent narcissist jerk like Moe.
"incompetent narcissist jerk like Moe". Tell me Rojo, have you reached the same executive level as Mo in your career?
What could that possibly have to do with being a jerk, or a narcissist?
People who are bitter about management are generally those who are jealous.
I can make an unfavorable assessment of something without being bitter, or jealous. I'm in business. I do it everyday.
Let me ask you something, Talkin' Baseball, since I've also spent many years in business. Does negativity ever accomplish anything? Honest answer please.