STLtoday.com

Quincy Varnish wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 20:05 pm

rbirules wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 19:45 pm In terms of the modified question of highest ceiling . . .

Reyes and Martinez both had Cy Young winning, top 5 pitcher in baseball stuff.

Walker had the physical tools to be a GG RF with elite power hitter upside (still does). Aaron Judge lite.

Gorman's lack of elite defensive talents limited his ceiling a bit.

Carlson lacked the speed and elite power to have a ceiling as high as Walker or Gorman.

Carlson had good tools… ran well (though probably not fast enough for CF w/o Edmonds-like instincts) and had a plus arm. His prospect rankings were higher than Gorman & C-Mart… I’m inclined to call him the biggest bust, with the jury still out on Walker.

Reyes just had a ton of arm injuries… so I’m not really comfortable calling him a “bust”.

Quincy Varnish wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 20:05 pm

rbirules wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 19:45 pm In terms of the modified question of highest ceiling . . .

Reyes and Martinez both had Cy Young winning, top 5 pitcher in baseball stuff.

Walker had the physical tools to be a GG RF with elite power hitter upside (still does). Aaron Judge lite.

Gorman's lack of elite defensive talents limited his ceiling a bit.

Carlson lacked the speed and elite power to have a ceiling as high as Walker or Gorman.

Carlson had good tools… ran well (though probably not fast enough for CF w/o Edmonds-like instincts) and had a plus arm. His prospect rankings were higher than Gorman & C-Mart… I’m inclined to call him the biggest bust, with the jury still out on Walker.

Reyes just had a ton of arm injuries… so I’m not really comfortable calling him a “bust”.

Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 20:13 pm

rbirules wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 20:12 pm

Quincy Varnish wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 20:05 pm

rbirules wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 19:45 pm In terms of the modified question of highest ceiling . . .

Reyes and Martinez both had Cy Young winning, top 5 pitcher in baseball stuff.

Walker had the physical tools to be a GG RF with elite power hitter upside (still does). Aaron Judge lite.

Gorman's lack of elite defensive talents limited his ceiling a bit.

Carlson lacked the speed and elite power to have a ceiling as high as Walker or Gorman.

Carlson had good tools… ran well (though probably not fast enough for CF w/o Edmonds-like instincts) and had a plus arm. His prospect rankings were higher than Gorman & C-Mart… I’m inclined to call him the biggest bust, with the jury still out on Walker.

Reyes just had a ton of arm injuries… so I’m not really comfortable calling him a “bust”.

Isn't that how a lot of pitchers end up busting? They can't stay healthy enough to progress, or even play, enough to reach their potential.

Quincy Varnish wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 20:19 pm

rbirules wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 20:12 pm

Quincy Varnish wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 20:05 pm

rbirules wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 19:45 pm In terms of the modified question of highest ceiling . . .

Reyes and Martinez both had Cy Young winning, top 5 pitcher in baseball stuff.

Walker had the physical tools to be a GG RF with elite power hitter upside (still does). Aaron Judge lite.

Gorman's lack of elite defensive talents limited his ceiling a bit.

Carlson lacked the speed and elite power to have a ceiling as high as Walker or Gorman.

Carlson had good tools… ran well (though probably not fast enough for CF w/o Edmonds-like instincts) and had a plus arm. His prospect rankings were higher than Gorman & C-Mart… I’m inclined to call him the biggest bust, with the jury still out on Walker.

Reyes just had a ton of arm injuries… so I’m not really comfortable calling him a “bust”.

Isn't that how a lot of pitchers end up busting? They can't stay healthy enough to progress, or even play, enough to reach their potential.

Yes. I just consider calling someone a “bust” something of an indictment. Reyes had the ability, but his arm betrayed him. Did Carlson? All the prospect gurus thought he had the goods, so what went wrong with him?

C-Unit wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 16:00 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 15:53 pm For me it’s Jordan Walker. Tremendous potential.

You think a perennial 30 home run rightfielder would be more valuable than a switch-hitting 5 tool CF or a perennial ace (all-star game starter type) pitcher?

What was your rose colored glasses case for Walker? I want to see.

C-Unit wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 15:47 pm I'm gonna make a list of players, who may or may not be considered "busts" based on how you define the word. I want you to compare each name to the wildest rose colored glasses view you ever had of said name. Which scenario would have made the biggest difference on the franchise over the last 10 years?

Carlos Martinez
Alex Reyes
Dylan Carlson
Nolan Gorman
Jordan Walker

For me it's a tie between either of the pitchers (Carlos Martinez becoming Pedro Jr or Alex Reyes throwing 200 innings and striking out 300), and Dylan Carlson if he had become more like the last switch-hitting rightfielder that wore #3 (the potential for a 20/30 high on-base switch-hitting centerfielder would have pretty impactful... especially in those lineups that had Goldschmidt and N. Arenado performing still at their best).

Feel free to throw out another name but I'm not talking about the Aledmys Diaz's of the world this is about former high-ranked prospects that were seen as future organization mainstays. We all know about the Taveras one, let's start after that.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 21:36 pm

C-Unit wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 15:47 pm I'm gonna make a list of players, who may or may not be considered "busts" based on how you define the word. I want you to compare each name to the wildest rose colored glasses view you ever had of said name. Which scenario would have made the biggest difference on the franchise over the last 10 years?

Carlos Martinez
Alex Reyes
Dylan Carlson
Nolan Gorman
Jordan Walker

For me it's a tie between either of the pitchers (Carlos Martinez becoming Pedro Jr or Alex Reyes throwing 200 innings and striking out 300), and Dylan Carlson if he had become more like the last switch-hitting rightfielder that wore #3 (the potential for a 20/30 high on-base switch-hitting centerfielder would have pretty impactful... especially in those lineups that had Goldschmidt and N. Arenado performing still at their best).

Feel free to throw out another name but I'm not talking about the Aledmys Diaz's of the world this is about former high-ranked prospects that were seen as future organization mainstays. We all know about the Taveras one, let's start after that.

Carlos, seriously? He won 62 games for us. We sign him again 10 times out of 10. That’s the opposite of a bust.

Carlos and Lynn were the 2 most successful Cardinal drafted / signed pitchers for our org this entire Century.

C-Unit wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 15:47 pm I'm gonna make a list of players, who may or may not be considered "busts" based on how you define the word. I want you to compare each name to the wildest rose colored glasses view you ever had of said name. Which scenario would have made the biggest difference on the franchise over the last 10 years?

Carlos Martinez
Alex Reyes
Dylan Carlson
Nolan Gorman
Jordan Walker

For me it's a tie between either of the pitchers (Carlos Martinez becoming Pedro Jr or Alex Reyes throwing 200 innings and striking out 300), and Dylan Carlson if he had become more like the last switch-hitting rightfielder that wore #3 (the potential for a 20/30 high on-base switch-hitting centerfielder would have pretty impactful... especially in those lineups that had Goldschmidt and N. Arenado performing still at their best).

Feel free to throw out another name but I'm not talking about the Aledmys Diaz's of the world this is about former high-ranked prospects that were seen as future organization mainstays. We all know about the Taveras one, let's start after that.

icon wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 19:49 pm Rasmus has to be on the list. He was supposed to make us forget Jim Edmonds.

imetsatchelpaige wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 22:23 pm

icon wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 19:49 pm Rasmus has to be on the list. He was supposed to make us forget Jim Edmonds.

No kidding-I spaced the guy I used to unmercifully hammer here. Hindered by an IQ in the 80 range, I always pictured him living in a Winnebago in Bumfuk Georgia.