Time for the Ozzie Smith experiment to end

[2ninr]

Put a couple of guys with hot bats in the top 5.
That's what makes a lineup work.

[cardinalsfever44]

Put a couple of guys with hot bats in the top 5.
That's what makes a lineup work.

Who are the hot bats for the Cards over the last month? This team is dead last in every single offensive metric over the last month plus. You can't do much with a lineup card when nobody is hitting. The biggest issue of all is the power has gone completely silent. Hard to win games in 2026 when nobody in your starting lineup can hit the ball over the wall.

[2ninr]

Put a couple of guys with hot bats in the top 5.
That's what makes a lineup work.

Who are the hot bats for the Cards over the last month? This team is dead last in every single offensive metric over the last month plus. You can't do much with a lineup card when nobody is hitting. The biggest issue of all is the power has gone completely silent. Hard to win games in 2026 when nobody in your starting lineup can hit the ball over the wall.

You made my point for me. There is no one. That's why he's grasping at straws trying to get something to click. Lineups are easy when guys are hitting.

[WeeVikes]

Put a couple of guys with hot bats in the top 5.
That's what makes a lineup work.

Who are the hot bats for the Cards over the last month? This team is dead last in every single offensive metric over the last month plus. You can't do much with a lineup card when nobody is hitting. The biggest issue of all is the power has gone completely silent. Hard to win games in 2026 when nobody in your starting lineup can hit the ball over the wall.

You made my point for me. There is no one. That's why he's grasping at straws trying to get something to click. Lineups are easy when guys are hitting.

If Oli’d just bat the guys in the right order this would fix itself!

[Melville]

That was 30 years ago. Times and the approach have changed in many ways, so those strategies may not be relevant in modern baseball.

It is rather obvious that The Marmot's "strategy" is not relevant in modern baseball.

[rezero]

Marmol does not know what he is doing. He digs his heels in on stupidity.

Just remember we have not hired a manager with previous mlb experience in 30 years. When you hire rookies you typically get a lot of questionable decisions.

[rockondlouie]

No way I'd deal I. Herrera unless he'd bring back a cost controlled for multiple years #2 starting pitcher or a teams #1 prospect.

RHHer's like him are rare in todays MLB, worth their weight in gold.

[riff raff]

No way I'd deal I. Herrera unless he'd bring back a cost controlled for multiple years #2 starting pitcher or a teams #1 prospect.

RHHer's like him are rare in todays MLB, worth their weight in gold.

Your love affair with Herrera is duly noted. In every thread

[nighthawk]

Ozzie was great hitting in the 2 hole. Good bat to ball skills, good bunter, good base runner. Aside from the base running, Jordan Walker is not an Ozzie Smith type hitter. He is wasted hitting behind Crooks, Pages, Church, Fermin, Jordan.

Hopefully after the deadline and theyre done show casing Hererra, they shift back to the lineup that was working for most of the season. This show case crashed and burned. Get the top 4 back where they belong, and give them a chance to regain their comfort groove.

Hitting your best hitter 1, or 2 works in Williamsport, where 2 runs will typically win. We see how it works with the Cardinals.

Makes me freaking sick that they continue this nonsense. The exciting team we saw earlier has turned into the 24, 25 Cardinals.

Bloom,....are you reading today bro? The show case is an all around fail. Nobody is trading for Ivan to make him their cleanup hitter!

You enjoy living in the past. Throughout major league baseball the number 2 slot today has the highest batting average, oba, slugging and ops than any other slot in the lineup. Definitely not the Ozzie prototype lineup position.

Those numbers are products of the hitters. Walker is not that. He is not a two hole type hitter.

They are the product of the managers wlffully placing placing said hitters in the number two slot.

[JDW]

IF Noot isn't traded: Noot, Wetherholt, Walker, Burleson, Herrera and Winn would be my top 6 in the order.
Herrera is too big a gidp threat to hit 2nd imo, although yes, it was working when he was getting HBP at a extremely high rate helping his OB be elite.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

No way I'd deal I. Herrera unless he'd bring back a cost controlled for multiple years #2 starting pitcher or a teams #1 prospect.

RHHer's like him are rare in todays MLB, worth their weight in gold.

Your love affair with Herrera is duly noted. In every thread

He’s right, though. Right handed hitter like Herrera are pretty rare right now, which is why a lot of teams are in the market for a player like that at the deadline. I would trade just about anyone for the right price, but I’m with him, I’m not trading Herrera unless I get a really big return.

[Cardinals4Life]

Ozzie was great hitting in the 2 hole. Good bat to ball skills, good bunter, good base runner. Aside from the base running, Jordan Walker is not an Ozzie Smith type hitter. He is wasted hitting behind Crooks, Pages, Church, Fermin, Jordan.

Hopefully after the deadline and theyre done show casing Hererra, they shift back to the lineup that was working for most of the season. This show case crashed and burned. Get the top 4 back where they belong, and give them a chance to regain their comfort groove.

Hitting your best hitter 1, or 2 works in Williamsport, where 2 runs will typically win. We see how it works with the Cardinals.

Makes me freaking sick that they continue this nonsense. The exciting team we saw earlier has turned into the 24, 25 Cardinals.

Bloom,....are you reading today bro? The show case is an all around fail. Nobody is trading for Ivan to make him their cleanup hitter!

You enjoy living in the past. Throughout major league baseball the number 2 slot today has the highest batting average, oba, slugging and ops than any other slot in the lineup. Definitely not the Ozzie prototype lineup position.

That does not mean it is best.

Major League managers who actually make out the lineups disagree.

Yep and that doesn't mean they are right. Just a new fad like a lot of other stuff in the game.

Ahhh....so the geniuses who never managed must be right for some reason. Rigid thought perhaps?

No, I just understand the game.

[C-Unit]

It remains to be seen what's going to happen with the coaching staff. We've heard everyone in the organization likes Oli. From where we sit none of us know if that's lip service or actually true. None of us personally have interacted or worked with him.

He and all of his players have "developed together" in a way. A new manager would break the bonds between the players and their manager and the expectation would officially be that the players are in the big leagues to win.

How much any of it makes a difference is continuously debatable.

A lot of the questions about what will happen come back to what is Bloom going to do. What does he want. And a lot of that is probably influenced by what does DeWitt want.

As for the batting orders, I understand why teams bat their best hitters 1 and 2.

And since there is no longer a pitcher batting 9th, it does remove one of the primary reasons you would not have put your best hitters 1st or 2nd in past times.

There are a lot of things a player does to create value. On base percentage, total bases, runs scored, baserunning, power. If you sort past individual offensive seasons by runs scored, it correlates pretty closely with how valuable the seasons were by other metrics. Players who get on base tend to score runs. Players who tally high total bases figures tend to score runs. Scoring runs is good. So, I think there are arguments to be made why you would want to take advantage of certain skill-sets in the 1 or 2 spot.

The intangible aspect I agree with is having a certain lineup spot become a "focal point." Having your most impactful offensive player come to the plate more times, yes that's valuable. Also having him come to the plate when there are runners on, and threats behind him is important.

If you have guys on base, and then your big power hitter steps to the plate it becomes the focal point of the lineup. It puts fear into the pitcher. It puts even more fear if the hitter isn't afraid to take 11 or 12 pitches, work a walk, and let the guy behind him do the damage. It changes the pace of the game too which is another intangible.

All of this revolves around the rest of the players in the lineup. When you only have 1 or 2 players doing damage, it's tough.

[RamFan08NY]

Put a couple of guys with hot bats in the top 5.
That's what makes a lineup work.

It doesn't have to be "hot bats". Keep guys there who HAVE produced. Players slump. Every player slumps. They also come out of it. Leave them where it was working, and let them play out of the slump.

[2ninr]

Put a couple of guys with hot bats in the top 5.
That's what makes a lineup work.

It doesn't have to be "hot bats". Keep guys there who HAVE produced. Players slump. Every player slumps. They also come out of it. Leave them where it was working, and let them play out of the slump.

I do agree with that.

[11WSChamps]

No way I'd deal I. Herrera unless he'd bring back a cost controlled for multiple years #2 starting pitcher or a teams #1 prospect.

RHHer's like him are rare in todays MLB, worth their weight in gold.

Your love affair with Herrera is duly noted. In every thread

No kidding.

Talks about him like he's Jimmie Foxx.

I doubt you get that kind of return.