In a Stunning Move

[JuanAgosto]

The obsession with RBI's in the year 2026 is something else

Though I suppose it's expected given the demographics of internet message boards

Not clear what the last bit is supposed to mean but I’m 80 and an avid follower of the team since 1954. The object of the game is to score runs. Stan the Man always said his goal every year was to score 100 runs and drive in a 100 runs because that was most valuable for the team.

For the first 100 games with a top of the order of JJ, Ivan, Burly, Walker, our 1-2 hitters following the bottom of the order had 40 or so rbi each. Look at the runs scored by the bottom of the order. You can’t score runs if you’re not on base. Burly & Walker had almost twice as many rbi as the 1-2 hitters because JJ and Ivan were getting on base and scoring runs. I don’t know how to make it any simpler but by stating the obvious.

Ignore these morons who have to hide their ignorance of the game.

Figures.

Analytics are valuable. Problem is, some people try to be cute and point to nonsense as being more important than the meaningful stuff.

Juan — I am in no way arguing or disagreeing with you. Although I think analytics are very useful tools, they are just that — tools.

I’m curious which ones you believe to be “nonsense” and what stats you consider valuable and important.

Thanks.

WeeVikes, we had a poster downplaying rbi's earlier. As multiple posters have pointed out, that is a valuable part of the game. Yet your stat geeks will fawn over walk rates while downplaying batting average. Let me ask you, in the bottom of the 8th, down a run with risp, do you prefer a guy looking for a walk? Or do you want a guy looking to drive in a run?

While in general I value OBP, clearly in this situation I want someone to drive in the run.

This is the thing that drives me nuts around here — there is a happy medium between SABR stuff and, for lack of a better term, “counting stats”. They both have value. They both have their uses, depending on the circumstances. For people to completely blow off one or the other is foolishness in my mind. Data is good. Data is useful. But if one just blindly follows something without critical thought, that’s a good way to get beaten.

YMMV.

Thats why I have stated that analytics have a place but shouldn't be the only thing factored in. Analytics cant factor slumps, hot streaks, injuries, or the clutch factor.

[cosmo.kramer]

The obsession with RBI's in the year 2026 is something else

Though I suppose it's expected given the demographics of internet message boards

Not clear what the last bit is supposed to mean but I’m 80 and an avid follower of the team since 1954. The object of the game is to score runs. Stan the Man always said his goal every year was to score 100 runs and drive in a 100 runs because that was most valuable for the team.

For the first 100 games with a top of the order of JJ, Ivan, Burly, Walker, our 1-2 hitters following the bottom of the order had 40 or so rbi each. Look at the runs scored by the bottom of the order. You can’t score runs if you’re not on base. Burly & Walker had almost twice as many rbi as the 1-2 hitters because JJ and Ivan were getting on base and scoring runs. I don’t know how to make it any simpler but by stating the obvious.

Ignore these morons who have to hide their ignorance of the game.

Figures.

Analytics are valuable. Problem is, some people try to be cute and point to nonsense as being more important than the meaningful stuff.

Juan — I am in no way arguing or disagreeing with you. Although I think analytics are very useful tools, they are just that — tools.

I’m curious which ones you believe to be “nonsense” and what stats you consider valuable and important.

Thanks.

WeeVikes, we had a poster downplaying rbi's earlier. As multiple posters have pointed out, that is a valuable part of the game. Yet your stat geeks will fawn over walk rates while downplaying batting average. Let me ask you, in the bottom of the 8th, down a run with risp, do you prefer a guy looking for a walk? Or do you want a guy looking to drive in a run?

While in general I value OBP, clearly in this situation I want someone to drive in the run.

This is the thing that drives me nuts around here — there is a happy medium between SABR stuff and, for lack of a better term, “counting stats”. They both have value. They both have their uses, depending on the circumstances. For people to completely blow off one or the other is foolishness in my mind. Data is good. Data is useful. But if one just blindly follows something without critical thought, that’s a good way to get beaten.

YMMV.

Thats why I have stated that analytics have a place but shouldn't be the only thing factored in. Analytics cant factor slumps, hot streaks, injuries, or the clutch factor.

RBI's as a descriptive stat of what happened during the game
--> perfectly reasonable use

RBI's as a predictive stat for which players are better than others
--> not a good use

[2ninr]

The obsession with RBI's in the year 2026 is something else

Though I suppose it's expected given the demographics of internet message boards

Not trying to argue but how are rbi's not important? You literally need to score runs to win games.

"Runs Batted In (RBI) are less important today because they measure opportunity and lineup context more than an individual hitter's actual skill."

[sikeston bulldog2]

The obsession with RBI's in the year 2026 is something else

Though I suppose it's expected given the demographics of internet message boards

Not trying to argue but how are rbi's not important? You literally need to score runs to win games.

"Runs Batted In (RBI) are less important today because they measure opportunity and lineup context more than an individual hitter's actual skill."

Same as it’s always been. But less important is fallacy.

[TopofthePerch]

the obsession with Oli and Mo on here is something else

The obsession to run to their defense is weirder.

I mean some people don't like stupid conversations that aren't relevant to what's going on and the Oli bashers are a bunch of emotionally inept idiots that are clueless.

[2ninr]

The obsession with RBI's in the year 2026 is something else

Though I suppose it's expected given the demographics of internet message boards

Not trying to argue but how are rbi's not important? You literally need to score runs to win games.

"Runs Batted In (RBI) are less important today because they measure opportunity and lineup context more than an individual hitter's actual skill."

Same as it’s always been. But less important is fallacy.

The runs themselves are just as important. The value of the metric in judging the player is what’s less important.

[sikeston bulldog2]

The obsession with RBI's in the year 2026 is something else

Though I suppose it's expected given the demographics of internet message boards

Not trying to argue but how are rbi's not important? You literally need to score runs to win games.

"Runs Batted In (RBI) are less important today because they measure opportunity and lineup context more than an individual hitter's actual skill."

Same as it’s always been. But less important is fallacy.

The runs themselves are just as important. The value of the metric in judging the player is what’s less important.

Roger. Runs scored and RBI sleep in the same room. But I don’t think they’re bunk mates.

So often a player will drive in a run, yet not score. Or score. And not drive in a run.

[2ninr]

OK. So Blaze Jordan has 29 hits and 22 rbi's. This guy must be a superstar, right? So his obp is .260 His OPS is .617. He has 1 homerun. And besides that I've seen him play and so far it's no bueno. But if all I looked at was rbi's he's great. That's the value of advanced metrics. Without ever seeing the guy play, I could say with complete confidence-so far he's been at the right place at the right time and he's lucky.

[JuanAgosto]

the obsession with Oli and Mo on here is something else

The obsession to run to their defense is weirder.

I mean some people don't like stupid conversations that aren't relevant to what's going on and the Oli bashers are a bunch of emotionally inept idiots that are clueless.

Then why take part in said conversation if you think its stupid? Seems like something an idiot would do.

[JuanAgosto]

The obsession with RBI's in the year 2026 is something else

Though I suppose it's expected given the demographics of internet message boards

Not trying to argue but how are rbi's not important? You literally need to score runs to win games.

"Runs Batted In (RBI) are less important today because they measure opportunity and lineup context more than an individual hitter's actual skill."

Completely stupid. There is a thing called coming through in the clutch. Some players have that unique ability, some don't. Stat nerds who never played don't seem to understand that.

[JuanAgosto]

The obsession with RBI's in the year 2026 is something else

Though I suppose it's expected given the demographics of internet message boards

Not clear what the last bit is supposed to mean but I’m 80 and an avid follower of the team since 1954. The object of the game is to score runs. Stan the Man always said his goal every year was to score 100 runs and drive in a 100 runs because that was most valuable for the team.

For the first 100 games with a top of the order of JJ, Ivan, Burly, Walker, our 1-2 hitters following the bottom of the order had 40 or so rbi each. Look at the runs scored by the bottom of the order. You can’t score runs if you’re not on base. Burly & Walker had almost twice as many rbi as the 1-2 hitters because JJ and Ivan were getting on base and scoring runs. I don’t know how to make it any simpler but by stating the obvious.

Ignore these morons who have to hide their ignorance of the game.

Figures.

Analytics are valuable. Problem is, some people try to be cute and point to nonsense as being more important than the meaningful stuff.

Juan — I am in no way arguing or disagreeing with you. Although I think analytics are very useful tools, they are just that — tools.

I’m curious which ones you believe to be “nonsense” and what stats you consider valuable and important.

Thanks.

WeeVikes, we had a poster downplaying rbi's earlier. As multiple posters have pointed out, that is a valuable part of the game. Yet your stat geeks will fawn over walk rates while downplaying batting average. Let me ask you, in the bottom of the 8th, down a run with risp, do you prefer a guy looking for a walk? Or do you want a guy looking to drive in a run?

While in general I value OBP, clearly in this situation I want someone to drive in the run.

This is the thing that drives me nuts around here — there is a happy medium between SABR stuff and, for lack of a better term, “counting stats”. They both have value. They both have their uses, depending on the circumstances. For people to completely blow off one or the other is foolishness in my mind. Data is good. Data is useful. But if one just blindly follows something without critical thought, that’s a good way to get beaten.

YMMV.

Thats why I have stated that analytics have a place but shouldn't be the only thing factored in. Analytics cant factor slumps, hot streaks, injuries, or the clutch factor.

RBI's as a descriptive stat of what happened during the game
--> perfectly reasonable use

RBI's as a predictive stat for which players are better than others
--> not a good use

Bullsh!t. Game on the line, do you want an rbi monster batting, or some pud looking for a walk?

[2ninr]

The obsession with RBI's in the year 2026 is something else

Though I suppose it's expected given the demographics of internet message boards

Not trying to argue but how are rbi's not important? You literally need to score runs to win games.

"Runs Batted In (RBI) are less important today because they measure opportunity and lineup context more than an individual hitter's actual skill."

Completely stupid. There is a thing called coming through in the clutch. Some players have that unique ability, some don't. Stat nerds who never played don't seem to understand that.

You are welcome to your opinion. But there's a lot of information that suggests othwerwise. And they dont call your opinion stupid.

[WeeVikes]

The obsession with RBI's in the year 2026 is something else

Though I suppose it's expected given the demographics of internet message boards

Not trying to argue but how are rbi's not important? You literally need to score runs to win games.

"Runs Batted In (RBI) are less important today because they measure opportunity and lineup context more than an individual hitter's actual skill."

Completely stupid. There is a thing called coming through in the clutch. Some players have that unique ability, some don't. Stat nerds who never played don't seem to understand that.

Fair. However, is that a measurable, quantifiable, repeatable skill? Is it something one might develop drills for so that skill could be taught or improved?

I am in 100% agreement with you that there are intangible skills that stats completely miss. How do you measure leadership? Toughness? Passion? You can’t! However, this discussion is revolving around stats — measurables. You could have the most clutch person in the world, but if they’re not given an opportunity to come thru in the clutch — i.e. drive in runs, becsuse they don’t happen to come up with others on, RBI might be a somewhat dubious stat.

My opinion. YMMV.

[cosmo.kramer]

The obsession with RBI's in the year 2026 is something else

Though I suppose it's expected given the demographics of internet message boards

Not clear what the last bit is supposed to mean but I’m 80 and an avid follower of the team since 1954. The object of the game is to score runs. Stan the Man always said his goal every year was to score 100 runs and drive in a 100 runs because that was most valuable for the team.

For the first 100 games with a top of the order of JJ, Ivan, Burly, Walker, our 1-2 hitters following the bottom of the order had 40 or so rbi each. Look at the runs scored by the bottom of the order. You can’t score runs if you’re not on base. Burly & Walker had almost twice as many rbi as the 1-2 hitters because JJ and Ivan were getting on base and scoring runs. I don’t know how to make it any simpler but by stating the obvious.

Ignore these morons who have to hide their ignorance of the game.

Figures.

Analytics are valuable. Problem is, some people try to be cute and point to nonsense as being more important than the meaningful stuff.

Juan — I am in no way arguing or disagreeing with you. Although I think analytics are very useful tools, they are just that — tools.

I’m curious which ones you believe to be “nonsense” and what stats you consider valuable and important.

Thanks.

WeeVikes, we had a poster downplaying rbi's earlier. As multiple posters have pointed out, that is a valuable part of the game. Yet your stat geeks will fawn over walk rates while downplaying batting average. Let me ask you, in the bottom of the 8th, down a run with risp, do you prefer a guy looking for a walk? Or do you want a guy looking to drive in a run?

While in general I value OBP, clearly in this situation I want someone to drive in the run.

This is the thing that drives me nuts around here — there is a happy medium between SABR stuff and, for lack of a better term, “counting stats”. They both have value. They both have their uses, depending on the circumstances. For people to completely blow off one or the other is foolishness in my mind. Data is good. Data is useful. But if one just blindly follows something without critical thought, that’s a good way to get beaten.

YMMV.

Thats why I have stated that analytics have a place but shouldn't be the only thing factored in. Analytics cant factor slumps, hot streaks, injuries, or the clutch factor.

RBI's as a descriptive stat of what happened during the game
--> perfectly reasonable use

RBI's as a predictive stat for which players are better than others
--> not a good use

Bullsh!t. Game on the line, do you want an rbi monster batting, or some pud looking for a walk?

I would use neither RBI's nor walk rate to determine which player I want in that situation

[cosmo.kramer]

The obsession with RBI's in the year 2026 is something else

Though I suppose it's expected given the demographics of internet message boards

Not trying to argue but how are rbi's not important? You literally need to score runs to win games.

"Runs Batted In (RBI) are less important today because they measure opportunity and lineup context more than an individual hitter's actual skill."

Completely stupid. There is a thing called coming through in the clutch. Some players have that unique ability, some don't. Stat nerds who never played don't seem to understand that.

Fair. However, is that a measurable, quantifiable, repeatable skill? Is it something one might develop drills for so that skill could be taught or improved?

I am in 100% agreement with you that there are intangible skills that stats completely miss. How do you measure leadership? Toughness? Passion? You can’t! However, this discussion is revolving around stats — measurables. You could have the most clutch person in the world, but if they’re not given an opportunity to come thru in the clutch — i.e. drive in runs, becsuse they don’t happen to come up with others on, RBI might be a somewhat dubious stat.

My opinion. YMMV.

There's actually a stat for that

WPA/LI

Win Probability Added (WPA) is essentially a fancier version of RBI's, and Leverage Index (LI) essentially measures the leverage or pressure of the situation

So then WPA/LI tells you which players performed better after neutralizing for context

For those interested: https://library.fangraphs.com/misc/wpa-li/

[cosmo.kramer]

The obsession with RBI's in the year 2026 is something else

Though I suppose it's expected given the demographics of internet message boards

Not trying to argue but how are rbi's not important? You literally need to score runs to win games.

"Runs Batted In (RBI) are less important today because they measure opportunity and lineup context more than an individual hitter's actual skill."

Completely stupid. There is a thing called coming through in the clutch. Some players have that unique ability, some don't. Stat nerds who never played don't seem to understand that.

Stat nerds do have clutch stats

https://library.fangraphs.com/misc/clutch/

Might help to read the WPA/LI link I posted first though