Jackson Holliday

[StlMike1969]

Ike Irish would be the better Oriole grab.

[mattmitchl44]

Ok.. here it is.. not quite as negative as I thought.

“The Orioles are not letting Jackson Holliday walk for nothing, but they have surprisingly discussed him in trade conversations ahead of the deadline. Rather than releasing him, Baltimore has floated their young controllable pieces to potentially acquire immediate help like starting pitching”

lol, they wouldn’t even be thinking about releasing him.

Yeah - anybody who writes "rather than releasing him" instantly has zero credibility. He's not even ARB eligible until 2028.

You don't just release the 1st overall pick at age 22 before he's ARB eligible - and Holliday, in limited PAs, is actually hitting better this year (wRC+ 119).

[ronnie76]

Only reason this is getting consideration is the Dad. Hard pass.

Holliday’s .756 OPS/114 OPS+ would be the 3rd highest on the team right now behind Walker and Burly. It’s better than Herrera (.739/111) and Wetherholt (.742/111).

Would you trade Herrera for Jackson Holliday?

yes

Double yes.

Do due diligence on the hand and making the throw from 3B. But the defensive fit and Cardinal catching glut just makes sense.

The Os have had so much young catching in recent years. What happened to it? Why was Pozo starting the other day?

Agree 10x!

[ecleme22]

I haven't looked at JH's stats in a while...

His OPS is .767, he has a really good OBP, and his OPS+ is 118.

Looks like he's had injury issues, but I was expecting Winn-type numbers with the way some of you were talking.

[RunSup]

I haven't looked at JH's stats in a while...

His OPS is .767, he has a really good OBP, and his OPS+ is 118.

Looks like he's had injury issues, but I was expecting Winn-type numbers with the way some of you were talking.

He had hamate surgery after getting hit early in spring training. Came back slowly in May. Some groin issues after that. Seems healthy now. .900 + OPS in July.

Nobody in St Louis was looking at Holliday until these rumors popped up. Could just be click bait.

[C-Unit]

Only reason this is getting consideration is the Dad. Hard pass.

Holliday’s .756 OPS/114 OPS+ would be the 3rd highest on the team right now behind Walker and Burly. It’s better than Herrera (.739/111) and Wetherholt (.742/111).

Would you trade Herrera for Jackson Holliday?

Herrera probably doesn't get you Holliday

Would you do Herrera for Rutschmann. This is a guy who used to be comped to Mark Teixeira. Might have to throw in Liberatore.

[BleedingBleu]

Only reason this is getting consideration is the Dad. Hard pass.

Holliday’s .756 OPS/114 OPS+ would be the 3rd highest on the team right now behind Walker and Burly. It’s better than Herrera (.739/111) and Wetherholt (.742/111).

Would you trade Herrera for Jackson Holliday?

Herrera probably doesn't get you Holliday

Would you do Herrera for Rutschmann. This is a guy who used to be comped to Mark Teixeira. Might have to throw in Liberatore.

That’s a great question. Former #1 Overall, but older than Ivan and a UFA after next year. Herrera is Arb1 eligible this offseason and has been entrenched with the organization.

I don’t think I’d swap him for Rutschmann largely because the organizational depth at Catcher coming up. Jackson Holliday is enticing because he’s a left-side of the infield type and we don’t have 3rd Baseman coming up and there’s not a lot of premium 3rd Baseman to begin with.

So, I’d gamble on a young guy who has the pedigree and is cheap vs the veteran who’s about to cash-in. So, if they’re shopping Jackson, I’m interest

[C-Unit]

Only reason this is getting consideration is the Dad. Hard pass.

Holliday’s .756 OPS/114 OPS+ would be the 3rd highest on the team right now behind Walker and Burly. It’s better than Herrera (.739/111) and Wetherholt (.742/111).

Would you trade Herrera for Jackson Holliday?

Herrera probably doesn't get you Holliday

Would you do Herrera for Rutschmann. This is a guy who used to be comped to Mark Teixeira. Might have to throw in Liberatore.

That’s a great question. Former #1 Overall, but older than Ivan and a UFA after next year. Herrera is Arb1 eligible this offseason and has been entrenched with the organization.

I don’t think I’d swap him for Rutschmann largely because the organizational depth at Catcher coming up. Jackson Holliday is enticing because he’s a left-side of the infield type and we don’t have 3rd Baseman coming up and there’s not a lot of premium 3rd Baseman to begin with.

So, I’d gamble on a young guy who has the pedigree and is cheap vs the veteran who’s about to cash-in. So, if they’re shopping Jackson, I’m interest

Ok I didn't really look at Rutschmann's years til free agency. That shocks me I did not realize he only has 1.5 years remaining.

Ok so he just doesn't fit our timeline that well, so I would probably say nevermind. I had thought of Rutschmann more for DH (and maybe C) depth and mainly for the reason that if you pick Herrera or Rutschmann out of a hat, I feel like it's a draw as to which one could conceivably put together a good or great offensive season. Getting Rutschmann into a change of scenery might get him back to looking like a 40 double, 25 homer type of player. I said last offseason that's the type of pickup the Brewers would make and then end up with a sneaky middle of lineup pillar.

[RunSup]

Only reason this is getting consideration is the Dad. Hard pass.

Holliday’s .756 OPS/114 OPS+ would be the 3rd highest on the team right now behind Walker and Burly. It’s better than Herrera (.739/111) and Wetherholt (.742/111).

Would you trade Herrera for Jackson Holliday?

Herrera probably doesn't get you Holliday

Would you do Herrera for Rutschmann. This is a guy who used to be comped to Mark Teixeira. Might have to throw in Liberatore.

Herrera straight up doesn't get you Holliday. A package that has a major league bat like Herrera could. But you add on.

If not that, You put one of your top prospects in the table. Rodriguez or Doyle or Baez,... If the Cardinals are unwilling to do that, then get your 3B somewhere else.

I would not trade for Rutschmann with the catchers we have and are coming. My window starts after next year and he'd be gone.

[C-Unit]

Only reason this is getting consideration is the Dad. Hard pass.

Holliday’s .756 OPS/114 OPS+ would be the 3rd highest on the team right now behind Walker and Burly. It’s better than Herrera (.739/111) and Wetherholt (.742/111).

Would you trade Herrera for Jackson Holliday?

Herrera probably doesn't get you Holliday

Would you do Herrera for Rutschmann. This is a guy who used to be comped to Mark Teixeira. Might have to throw in Liberatore.

Herrera straight up doesn't get you Holliday. A package that has a major league bat like Herrera could. But you add on.

If not that, You put one of your top prospects in the table. Rodriguez or Doyle or Baez,... If the Cardinals are unwilling to do that, then get your 3B somewhere else.

I would not trade for Rutschmann with the catchers we have and are coming. My window starts after next year and he'd be gone.

I don't want Holliday bad enough that I'd give one of those prospects. I'll just keep the guys I have.

[2ninr]

Only reason this is getting consideration is the Dad. Hard pass.

Holliday’s .756 OPS/114 OPS+ would be the 3rd highest on the team right now behind Walker and Burly. It’s better than Herrera (.739/111) and Wetherholt (.742/111).

Would you trade Herrera for Jackson Holliday?

Herrera probably doesn't get you Holliday

Would you do Herrera for Rutschmann. This is a guy who used to be comped to Mark Teixeira. Might have to throw in Liberatore.

Herrera straight up doesn't get you Holliday. A package that has a major league bat like Herrera could. But you add on.

If not that, You put one of your top prospects in the table. Rodriguez or Doyle or Baez,... If the Cardinals are unwilling to do that, then get your 3B somewhere else.

I would not trade for Rutschmann with the catchers we have and are coming. My window starts after next year and he'd be gone.

Those 3 are untouchable. Just like Jackson Holiday is.

[JDW]

Joshua Baez would be the logical prospect I think the Cards would offer if they were seriously interested. Cards need pitching, so don't think they'd consider that, although with Doyle maybe it'd be another logical thought. Both Baez (contact issues) and Doyle (secondary pitches) have major concerns, so pick one of them as the centerpiece in a Holliday swap.
Last I saw, Holliday's BTV was in the high +20's, last I saw Baez's was in the low 20's, and don't know where Doyle's is currently at.

[2ninr]

Joshua Baez would be the logical prospect I think the Cards would offer if they were seriously interested. Cards need pitching, so don't think they'd consider that, although with Doyle maybe it'd be another logical thought. Both Baez (contact issues) and Doyle (secondary pitches) have major concerns, so pick one of them as the centerpiece in a Holliday swap.
Last I saw, Holliday's BTV was in the high +20's, last I saw Baez's was in the low 20's, and don't know where Doyle's is currently at.

I just think there's too much risk in trading any of these players. It's fun to talk about but swapping top organizational prospects rarely happens unless elite major league talent is coming back. Herrera isn't it.

[JDW]

Joshua Baez would be the logical prospect I think the Cards would offer if they were seriously interested. Cards need pitching, so don't think they'd consider that, although with Doyle maybe it'd be another logical thought. Both Baez (contact issues) and Doyle (secondary pitches) have major concerns, so pick one of them as the centerpiece in a Holliday swap.
Last I saw, Holliday's BTV was in the high +20's, last I saw Baez's was in the low 20's, and don't know where Doyle's is currently at.

I just think there's too much risk in trading any of these players. It's fun to talk about but swapping top organizational prospects rarely happens unless elite major league talent is coming back. Herrera isn't it.

Flaherty once upon a time had a sky high BTV, then slid down the hill.
Carlson had a great trade value, then went flop.
Alex Reyes had a sky high value, then injuries.
Gorman had a very good trade value, then another flop.
Taveras had a great BTV while in milb.
O'Neil had a +30 BTV even after some injuries, then flop.
C. Martinez had good value, then regression.

Even w/o the benefit of hindsight, some of these players had a red flag or two before their rapid erosion in value. Heck, Crooks had a +16 BTV when he was 1st called up, now it's in the +6's. Like Gorman, contact issues often get exposed at the show. Think Baez here. Great power potential for sure, which gets noticed, but we're in real time, so we don't know how it plays out.
There's risk no matter what the Cards decide, but trading Baez for Holliday as the centerpieces would reduce the overall risk imo. Holliday has already gone thru the transition and come out the other side looking like he'll be ok, and could fit in a needed infield position. Baez is still a shiny exciting prospect.
Idk, don't think either team bites here either, just mainly airing thoughts.

[2ninr]

Joshua Baez would be the logical prospect I think the Cards would offer if they were seriously interested. Cards need pitching, so don't think they'd consider that, although with Doyle maybe it'd be another logical thought. Both Baez (contact issues) and Doyle (secondary pitches) have major concerns, so pick one of them as the centerpiece in a Holliday swap.
Last I saw, Holliday's BTV was in the high +20's, last I saw Baez's was in the low 20's, and don't know where Doyle's is currently at.

I just think there's too much risk in trading any of these players. It's fun to talk about but swapping top organizational prospects rarely happens unless elite major league talent is coming back. Herrera isn't it.

Flaherty once upon a time had a sky high BTV, then slid down the hill.
Carlson had a great trade value, then went flop.
Alex Reyes had a sky high value, then injuries.
Gorman had a very good trade value, then another flop.
Taveras had a great BTV while in milb.
O'Neil had a +30 BTV even after some injuries, then flop.
C. Martinez had good value, then regression.

Even w/o the benefit of hindsight, some of these players had a red flag or two before their rapid erosion in value. Heck, Crooks had a +16 BTV when he was 1st called up, now it's in the +6's. Like Gorman, contact issues often get exposed at the show. Think Baez here. Great power potential for sure, which gets noticed, but we're in real time, so we don't know how it plays out.
There's risk no matter what the Cards decide, but trading Baez for Holliday as the centerpieces would reduce the overall risk imo. Holliday has already gone thru the transition and come out the other side looking like he'll be ok, and could fit in a needed infield position. Baez is still a shiny exciting prospect.
Idk, don't think either team bites here either, just mainly airing thoughts.

Baez is the highest risk imo-I would do that. Don't think Baltimore would.

[C-Unit]

Joshua Baez would be the logical prospect I think the Cards would offer if they were seriously interested. Cards need pitching, so don't think they'd consider that, although with Doyle maybe it'd be another logical thought. Both Baez (contact issues) and Doyle (secondary pitches) have major concerns, so pick one of them as the centerpiece in a Holliday swap.
Last I saw, Holliday's BTV was in the high +20's, last I saw Baez's was in the low 20's, and don't know where Doyle's is currently at.

I just think there's too much risk in trading any of these players. It's fun to talk about but swapping top organizational prospects rarely happens unless elite major league talent is coming back. Herrera isn't it.

Flaherty once upon a time had a sky high BTV, then slid down the hill.
Carlson had a great trade value, then went flop.
Alex Reyes had a sky high value, then injuries.
Gorman had a very good trade value, then another flop.
Taveras had a great BTV while in milb.
O'Neil had a +30 BTV even after some injuries, then flop.
C. Martinez had good value, then regression.

Even w/o the benefit of hindsight, some of these players had a red flag or two before their rapid erosion in value. Heck, Crooks had a +16 BTV when he was 1st called up, now it's in the +6's. Like Gorman, contact issues often get exposed at the show. Think Baez here. Great power potential for sure, which gets noticed, but we're in real time, so we don't know how it plays out.
There's risk no matter what the Cards decide, but trading Baez for Holliday as the centerpieces would reduce the overall risk imo. Holliday has already gone thru the transition and come out the other side looking like he'll be ok, and could fit in a needed infield position. Baez is still a shiny exciting prospect.
Idk, don't think either team bites here either, just mainly airing thoughts.

I don't know. In my mind when I hear these types of trade ideas I go back to a certain time when some beat writer posed a Taveras-Profar trade scenario, and then it became a discussion around Cardinal fanbase like it was an immenint possibility.

Holliday is in the big leagues, but ultimately you'd be still acquiring him based on his prospect pedigree hoping he reaches a consensus potential that he hasn't quite grasped at the big league level. Sure he looks like he's showing signs. Maybe he would become that 300 20+ hr 100+ rbi hitter. To me that's almost the same likelihood of Baez one day hitting 35 homers in the big leagues and playing above average RF defense. Simply because neither have happened yet. Holliday could just as easily continue on as a .260/.360/.430 type of guy with good obp with limited power. We have one poster in the thread saying if we get Holliday and then bring his dad along, maybe his dad can fix him. Does that sound right, trading a top prospect (Baez) for a player who's dad needs to come along to fix him. That tells you Holliday is still ultimately unproven.

In the Taveras-Profar discussions I just couldn't rationalize why people were even discussing it like it's something a front office would do. To me, a front office making a prospect for prospect deal like that would have been about on the same level as the fans who argue why didn't we draft Mike Trout instead of Shelby Miller. There's a certain point where you have to trust the way you valued the player when you drafted/signed them, and stand by your evaluation as they progress in the minors the way Baez and Rodriguez are. No need to get cute now.

I know Baez-Holliday wouldn't be the the same example because Holliday is in the bigs already. But to me there's just a reason why that type of trade doesn't happen often. Hollidays BTV has dropped since his debut I'm sure. So the O's are kind of a similar situation to where we were with Walker in 2024-25. They kind of have to roll with him and hope he reaches his potential imo. On our end, Holliday Would be a player with less years of control. If he did breakout with us, now you're over a barrel like we are now with Walker. Do we extend him? Turn around and trade him too? Maybe a particularly nimble front office can maintain a long window of success while continuing to make deals involving your own breakout players, but I don't know. I think the goal should remain to have as many high upside prospects as we can who fit into a long window. Making these deals for Holliday, Rutschmann, (or I'll put the Abrams idea in this category) aren't really consistent with that plan. Now all of a sudden you risk turning it into a 2-3 year window. That's how the Padres got to where they are.

I'll add many of the cases of STL prospects quickly losing their value happened under Mozeliak. I do believe we are already seeing a better development system under Bloom that can lead to a higher success rate.