Emerson Hancock for Hererra?

[JDW]

So IF the Cards wanted to buy an extra prospect, the Cards could take back Luis Castillo and his underwater -16M BTV.
In this scenario, IF the Mariner's valued Herrera equal with Hancock, the Cards could possibly get a good prospect by taking on Castillo's remaining contract.
So just going by the BTV numbers but assuming IH and Hancock equal value in this trade, a prospect with around a +16M BTV would be a pretty good one, especially if the Cards added Liberatore, +4.8.
Joshua Baez last I saw has a BTV around +21 last I saw just to give an example. Throw in Liberatore, and you might possibly be able to get a prospect back near Baez's level.

Herrera and Libs for Hancock, Castillo and a very good prospect. Cards take on Castillo's contract for the next year and a half.
Cards SP rotation in 2027 would be deep enough to possibly contend at least for a WC next year, especially if Castillo could bounce back in 2027.

[imyourhuckleberry]

no

no 27 year olds


and if there is a season, that 2030 arb, will be closer to 28. players are closing that gap in this contract

If the Cardinals hit their re-build timeline and are a WS competitive team in 2029, there are worse things than having a pitcher in a contract year.

[Assuming the new CBA cuts a year of control]

At some point, they're gonna have to take some risks. Should it be for this guy at this time? I don't know. That's why Bloom gets paid the big bucks.

[Melville]

If this is even a consideration, I guess the question Bloom would have to answer for himself is, at 28 two months in to next season is 2026 an aberration or has Hancock figured it out and this is who he is going forward?

Controllable thru 2030, I say if Bloom can swing a palatable deal, take the shot.

Pitching, pitching and more pitching.

Yes, yes, and yes.

[rockondlouie]

Seattle is stocked with pitchers and there are reports (ESPN/MLB) that say this could happen.
Thoughts?

Every team in MLB would trade Herrera for Hancock in a heartbeat.

Doubtful.

Herrera's a career 120+ wRC+ hitter w/three years of control, this season away from that hitter un-friendly Busch Stadium he's a sterling 136 wRC+.

I'm not trading him for some one year wonder starter, neither would almost all of the POBO/GM's in MLB (Mo being the exception ).

4 years of control for a proven mid-rotation starter is far more valuable than 3 years of control for a DH only hitter with limited power who is prone to extreme streakiness.

We have plenty of "mid rotation starters" already here (McG, Leahy & Pallante) and more on the way so adding another wouldn't move the needle Mel.

Meanwhile this team has shown now for multiple months they lack hitting, especially a RHHer w/a career wRC+ over 120.

Sure I'd deal him for th right return but certainly not for a "mid rotation" starter.

JMO

Pass

[rockondlouie]

Seattle is stocked with pitchers and there are reports (ESPN/MLB) that say this could happen.
Thoughts?

Every team in MLB would trade Herrera for Hancock in a heartbeat.

Doubtful.

Herrera's a career 120+ wRC+ hitter w/three years of control, this season away from that hitter un-friendly Busch Stadium he's a sterling 136 wRC+.

I'm not trading him for some one year wonder starter, neither would almost all of the POBO/GM's in MLB (Mo being the exception ).

I wouldn't either, but I'll say Hancock characterized as a one year wonder is a bit harsh. He's a former 1st round pick and consensus top 100 prospect. Not exactly an out of the blue performance. He always had the pedigree/talent. Not unusual for a SP to take a couple seasons to get their footing.

Rock - am I totally out of bounds on this idea I posted earlier?

Be curious how it would line up on BTV if it something like...

Cards take on all of Castillo's contract + Ryan Sloan for Herrera + somebody (Romero, BP arm, whatever).

I'm sure Seattle would still say no. But getting out of Castillo's contract while still keeping Hancock and Kade Anderson would leave them still pretty rich in SP talent/depth. Would think freeing up that payroll would allow them to add something valuable in FA for 2027 and beyond to extend their window. Or extend Kirby, Miller, or Woo with the same goal.

Pedigree is nice............until it doesn't surface in MLB and Hancock prior to 2026 was a "meh" starter (37 G/31 GS: 4.81 ERA/5.23 FiP).

I'll give you SSS.

But is 2026 a snapshot of the future or an outlier season?

I'm not giving up a very valuable trade chip in Herrera unless the pitcher has a longer track record of success.

RHH'ed hitters w/a career 120+ wRC+ and three years of control, even if they're DH/weak back up catchers are in big demand all over MLB!

Which is why on this offensively challenged team I think it's INSANE, unless C. Bloom is overwhelmed, to trade away a proven hitter.

As for Castillo I just don't see it walt given he turns 34 years old in December, that doesn't fit "the plan".

I would not give up Herrera for him and neither would C. Bloom.

Woo, Miller, Gilbert or Kirby.............then I'd certainly be interested!

[Melville]

Many folks are making the same mistake in judgement with Herrera as they have with Mootbaar.
Herrera is a RH positionless hitter whose sole plus skill is standing on first base.
Mootbaar is a LH mirror image.
Herrera has never hit 20 HR in a season (and 1/3 of his career HR came in a meaningless one-month stretch against watered down pitching).
He has never drove in more than 66 runs - and is unlikely to surpass that figure this season.
Never more than 32 XBH's in a season.
His greatest skill is drawing walks and getting hit - then watching teammates do the hard work of actually producing offense.
Yes - getting on base is helpful.
But that alone is not a catalyst for production.
Worth noting that over the past 3 seasons Masyn Winn actually has scored more runs, driven in more runs, than Herrera.
When it comes to actual production, Herrera is wildly inconsistent and pedestrian overall.
Every POBO in MLB would happily acquire Emerson Hancock for Hererra.

[WaltsSuccessor]

Seattle is stocked with pitchers and there are reports (ESPN/MLB) that say this could happen.
Thoughts?

Every team in MLB would trade Herrera for Hancock in a heartbeat.

Doubtful.

Herrera's a career 120+ wRC+ hitter w/three years of control, this season away from that hitter un-friendly Busch Stadium he's a sterling 136 wRC+.

I'm not trading him for some one year wonder starter, neither would almost all of the POBO/GM's in MLB (Mo being the exception ).

I wouldn't either, but I'll say Hancock characterized as a one year wonder is a bit harsh. He's a former 1st round pick and consensus top 100 prospect. Not exactly an out of the blue performance. He always had the pedigree/talent. Not unusual for a SP to take a couple seasons to get their footing.

Rock - am I totally out of bounds on this idea I posted earlier?

Be curious how it would line up on BTV if it something like...

Cards take on all of Castillo's contract + Ryan Sloan for Herrera + somebody (Romero, BP arm, whatever).

I'm sure Seattle would still say no. But getting out of Castillo's contract while still keeping Hancock and Kade Anderson would leave them still pretty rich in SP talent/depth. Would think freeing up that payroll would allow them to add something valuable in FA for 2027 and beyond to extend their window. Or extend Kirby, Miller, or Woo with the same goal.

Pedigree is nice............until it doesn't surface in MLB and Hancock prior to 2026 was a "meh" starter (37 G/31 GS: 4.81 ERA/5.23 FiP).

I'll give you SSS.

But is 2026 a snapshot of the future or an outlier season?

I'm not giving up a very valuable trade chip in Herrera unless the pitcher has a longer track record of success.

RHH'ed hitters w/a career 120+ wRC+ and three years of control, even if they're DH/weak back up catchers are in big demand all over MLB!

Which is why on this offensively challenged team I think it's INSANE, unless C. Bloom is overwhelmed, to trade away a proven hitter.

As for Castillo I just don't see it walt given he turns 34 years old in December, that doesn't fit "the plan".

I would not give up Herrera for him and neither would C. Bloom.

Woo, Miller, Gilbert or Kirby.............then I'd certainly be interested!

The suggestion wasn’t bc I value Castillo. It was to absorb him contract to “buy” Sloan (with Herrera).

[kyace]

Seattle will not entertain trade offers on Sloan, Anderson or Woo. Miller would cost more than the remaining pitchers. Kirby is becoming more available as he has not had a good year and they may want to sell high on him with 2 additional years of control left but that would cost Baez plus.

[JuanAgosto]

Let's focus on offensive production instead of a 28 year old one year wonder pitcher.

[hmoss859]

Seattle will not entertain trade offers on Sloan, Anderson or Woo. Miller would cost more than the remaining pitchers. Kirby is becoming more available as he has not had a good year and they may want to sell high on him with 2 additional years of control left but that would cost Baez plus.

Kirby would not command Baez

Herrera, JoJo and O’Brien for Kirby or Woo

[kyace]

Seattle will not entertain trade offers on Sloan, Anderson or Woo. Miller would cost more than the remaining pitchers. Kirby is becoming more available as he has not had a good year and they may want to sell high on him with 2 additional years of control left but that would cost Baez plus.

Kirby would not command Baez

Herrera, JoJo and O’Brien for Kirby or Woo

A pitcher of his pedigree with 2 and a half years of control will easily get a top 50 prospect as the headliner and more if the Mariners were looking for prospects. He doesn’t really meet the Cards timeline however.