For The One Who Posts Not

[riff raff]

Had the Cards dropped 8-10 games off the pace, I think trades like this
could easily get done.
It seems less likely now, however I get the reasoning and for those reasons
I'd look at Herrera too.

I'd trade Hererra before Burly.

I am open to trading Burly or Herrera . If I trade Burly, I want Herrera to be my 1st Baseman. The value for both has peaked, and if not signed to long term, they do not fit in the LT plan

Ivan plays 1B?

[renostl]

Had the Cards dropped 8-10 games off the pace, I think trades like this
could easily get done.
It seems less likely now, however I get the reasoning and for those reasons
I'd look at Herrera too.

I'd trade Hererra before Burly.

Wait! What?? Herrera has more team control, is younger, and is a significantly better player.

There's a year difference.

I'd put them on the same timeline only because of the position deal.
IMO, it would be good to have something worked out with catcher certainly
before the end of 2027. I'd like to see both Rodriguez and Bernal have a less complicated
path. The whole 1B, C, DH needs clarity and both are a part of that
along with others.

As to significantly better, not sure. Both need to bring XBH to the lineup.
This season
AB has 96H, 39 XBH for 168 TB in 398 PA
IH has 86H, 26 XBH, for 135 TB in 423 PA

That year is a big deal considering the teams timeline. Either way, there's no way anyone should consider trading Herrera over Burleson unless the goal is to extend the rebuild.

Herrera doesn't necessarily need to bring more XBH, he has elite on base ability.

No,
he does need to bring XBH, he is mostly a DH and more so each
season going forward. TB matter.
OBP is fine the team needs XBH beyond one player and DH should
be a source of that. Give me 10 2B over 10 HBP any day.
We'll have to disagree on that.

I certainly wouldn't disagree on 10 doubles over 10 HBP and no sane person would. However, that's not what we're talking about here.

AB has a BA of .273 to IH .249 in those numbers AB has those 10 more 2B, 4 more HRs giving
him 33 more TB, what he doesn't have is those HBP/BB.

I think a little way up I said by the end of 2027. There's plenty of time.

I was responding to the claim that Herrera is an "significantly better player"
Difficult for me if the lesser player accumulates more bases and
has a position.

I like XBH especially from the teams DH.
His career XBH is below league average, to this point in the season
he has trended even lower. 6.2%?

But I do think by the end of 2027 or before a choice will be made on both
thus the same timeline

[Bushiro]

I think Burly fits into the opening competitive window about 2 years from now.

Not really. He's a FA in '29, will be 28 this year and has an offensive skill set which typicallydoes not age well. Additionally, his coming raise next year will mean the Cardinals would be able to get equal production for far less money. All of that and he is probably at his peek trade value now.

It'd be nice for the Cards to see if Rainiel can develop also as a 3B while in milb. Maybe they've already evaluated some with him at 3B in practice.
I understand being reluctant to the thought of trading Burly, but Golds had +5 bWAR type seasons at 1B with the Cards. including a +7.7 in 2022. Burly's on track for a +2.4 bWAR this year. He's having a good season, but far from great. Pujol's bWAR at 1B while with the Cards were mostly in the +8's to +9's, including a +9.7 in 2009, or a little over 4 times what AB is tracking for this year. I'd be REAL surprised if Rainiel didn't easily surpass AB's production if he ends up mainly at 1B.

Definitely agree. Rodriguez looks to be the real deal and needs a position to play other than catcher.

One of the better hitters I've ever seen to wear a peoria chiefs uniform cubs or cards...not to mention how young he is...

[Hoosier59]

IMO, Burleson would be missed like Nootbaar was/will be missed. Life goes on.

I get it. You like to play around and think of trade ideas, as do I. However, there comes a time when trading players to just make deals need to end, or we simply become the Pirates, Reds, A’s, and other teams that have constant turn over. The Cardinals could extend Burleson now, for a lot cheaper than they will be able to if they keep waiting around.

[Talkin' Baseball]

IMO, Burleson would be missed like Nootbaar was/will be missed. Life goes on.

I get it. You like to play around and think of trade ideas, as do I. However, there comes a time when trading players to just make deals need to end, or we simply become the Pirates, Reds, A’s, and other teams that have constant turn over. The Cardinals could extend Burleson now, for a lot cheaper than they will be able to if they keep waiting around.

You mis-characterize my thought processes a little. Deals are always part of the deal. You don't do them just to make deals. You do them to improve, and in the case of the Cardinals, to rebuild. They are not done rebuilding yet. In some ways the things left to be done are more controversial than the first things mostly because the urgency and necessity (and appetite) to rebuild wanes. Some of the moves left feel more discretionary. I do want to perpetually improve. I do not want to perpetually rebuild like the teams you mentioned. Let's do this thing- and move on.

[ronnie76]

Had the Cards dropped 8-10 games off the pace, I think trades like this
could easily get done.
It seems less likely now, however I get the reasoning and for those reasons
I'd look at Herrera too.

I'd trade Hererra before Burly.

Wait! What?? Herrera has more team control, is younger, and is a significantly better player.

There's a year difference.

I'd put them on the same timeline only because of the position deal.
IMO, it would be good to have something worked out with catcher certainly
before the end of 2027. I'd like to see both Rodriguez and Bernal have a less complicated
path. The whole 1B, C, DH needs clarity and both are a part of that
along with others.

As to significantly better, not sure. Both need to bring XBH to the lineup.
This season
AB has 96H, 39 XBH for 168 TB in 398 PA
IH has 86H, 26 XBH, for 135 TB in 423 PA

That year is a big deal considering the teams timeline. Either way, there's no way anyone should consider trading Herrera over Burleson unless the goal is to extend the rebuild.

Herrera doesn't necessarily need to bring more XBH, he has elite on base ability.

No,
he does need to bring XBH, he is mostly a DH and more so each
season going forward. TB matter.
OBP is fine the team needs XBH beyond one player and DH should
be a source of that. Give me 10 2B over 10 HBP any day.
We'll have to disagree on that.

Re-looking at this and I think you're correct. If Herrera can't handle a position on the field adequately, his decline this year indicates something needs to change. He needs to play a defensive position adequately on the field, significantly increase his offensive output, or be traded.

[renostl]

Had the Cards dropped 8-10 games off the pace, I think trades like this
could easily get done.
It seems less likely now, however I get the reasoning and for those reasons
I'd look at Herrera too.

I'd trade Hererra before Burly.

Wait! What?? Herrera has more team control, is younger, and is a significantly better player.

There's a year difference.

I'd put them on the same timeline only because of the position deal.
IMO, it would be good to have something worked out with catcher certainly
before the end of 2027. I'd like to see both Rodriguez and Bernal have a less complicated
path. The whole 1B, C, DH needs clarity and both are a part of that
along with others.

As to significantly better, not sure. Both need to bring XBH to the lineup.
This season
AB has 96H, 39 XBH for 168 TB in 398 PA
IH has 86H, 26 XBH, for 135 TB in 423 PA

That year is a big deal considering the teams timeline. Either way, there's no way anyone should consider trading Herrera over Burleson unless the goal is to extend the rebuild.

Herrera doesn't necessarily need to bring more XBH, he has elite on base ability.

No,
he does need to bring XBH, he is mostly a DH and more so each
season going forward. TB matter.
OBP is fine the team needs XBH beyond one player and DH should
be a source of that. Give me 10 2B over 10 HBP any day.
We'll have to disagree on that.

Re-looking at this and I think you're correct. If Herrera can't handle a position on the field adequately, his decline this year indicates something needs to change. He needs to play a defensive position adequately on the field, significantly increase his offensive output, or be traded.

I'm not sure it is about being right or being wrong.
It is a forum with different POV and opinions. Nothing more.
I've been corrected just yesterday on how BA does their batting splits.
I also have seen strong points that change my thoughts.

To Herrera, We'll see what Bloom does and that may not
be until the off season. BUT if the team had one complete
catcher, say Langeliers, it shows how a roster can improve
and the depth at catcher can be utilized, jmo.

[RunSup]

I dont expect a whirlwind of trades this deadline for the Cardinals. Really just Romero and May. Stanek. Maybe O'Brien.

But if and when the trade windows open in the off season, Bloom could add anybody deemed "not core" to his competitive window target. Including Noot, Herrera, Burleson, Pallante, O'Brien, Crooks, ... could get a nice return.

So I agree with the OP, If Burleson is in that trade mix, a good hitting 1B/3B should be part of the return.

Trades are going to be suppressed this off season until there is a new CBA in place.

[renostl]

I dont expect a whirlwind of trades this deadline for the Cardinals. Really just Romero and May. Stanek. Maybe O'Brien.

But if and when the trade windows open in the off season, Bloom could add anybody deemed "not core" to his competitive window target. Including Noot, Herrera, Burleson, Pallante, O'Brien, Crooks, ... could get a nice return.

So I agree with the OP, If Burleson is in that trade mix, a good hitting 1B/3B should be part of the return.

Trades are going to be suppressed this off season until there is a new CBA in place.

Nothing would surprise.

It's about improving the roster, not selling or buying.
Improving the roster shouldn't skip opportunities.
If they move those 4 are any 4 that's quite a bit.

[Talkin' Baseball]

I dont expect a whirlwind of trades this deadline for the Cardinals. Really just Romero and May. Stanek. Maybe O'Brien.

But if and when the trade windows open in the off season, Bloom could add anybody deemed "not core" to his competitive window target. Including Noot, Herrera, Burleson, Pallante, O'Brien, Crooks, ... could get a nice return.

So I agree with the OP, If Burleson is in that trade mix, a good hitting 1B/3B should be part of the return.

Trades are going to be suppressed this off season until there is a new CBA in place.

The window for trades will be so small this winter. Usually trades don't perk up until the winter meetings. By the time that date gets here the lockout will have begun. When the lockout lifts (whenever that is) there will be a flood of activity to get going- free agency, spring training arrangements, arbitrtation, and the like. Trades will be limited. I hope they do their business now.