For The One Who Posts Not

[Jatalk]

A Burly trade proposal. Actually two proposals.

1) Alec Burleson straight up to the Tigers for Josue Briceno.
Bricneo is 21 and is a C/1B (think 1B). He is a left handed hitter currently at AA. He has a 60 grade hit tool and makes loud contact like Joshua Baez with better contact skills. He would become Burleson's replacement.

The Tigers are currently 3.5 games out of the wildcard race. The production from their 1B ranks 27th in the majors, RF ranks 29th, and DH ranks 20th. Burleson could help them with any of that. If the Tigers wanted someone else the Cardinals have in addition to Burleson, ask for Malachi Witherspoon.

2) If things don't work out with the Tigers, trade Burleson to the Miami Marlins.
Marlins get: Alec Burleson
Cardinals get; Kevin DeFrank, Santiago Solarte, and Yohanfer Santana.

The Marlins need another quality bat and rank 25th in production at 1B.

Kevin Defrank 17y/o MLB Pipeline grades- Scouting grades: Fastball: 70 | Slider: 55 | Changeup: 60 | Control: 50 | Overall: 50
The 6-foot-5 righty is quite physically mature for his age with an athletic, muscly frame. Between his size and arm speed, he's already able to touch triple digits on a four-seamer that operates at 97 mph. He's able to locate the pitch well and gets both ride and armside run. Defrank's changeup features splitter-like sink and is quite advanced for his age, sitting 88-91 mph. He rounds out his arsenal with a high-spin sweeping slider that parks at 86-89 mph and could eventually become plus.

Defrank's power stuff at this age is impressive enough, and the fact that he's consistently throwing it for strikes separates him from most DSL pitchers. His command still has a ways to go, as expected from someone his age, but he has the athleticism and repeats his delivery well enough to already show average control. Teenage pitching prospects are incredibly risky, but he's checking every box you'd want to see, including impressive makeup and leadership.

Santiago Solarte 17 y/o SS Scouting grades: Hit: 45 | Power: 60 | Run: 50 | Arm: 50 | Field: 55 | Overall: 45
The Venezuela native immediately stands out for his physical strength with near-top-of-the-line exit velocities from the left side of the plate. The question as he matures, of course, is how much he'll be able to tap into it. Solarte is quite coordinated for his size, although his longer limbs will challenge his ability to make consistent contact. Still, he has plenty of bat speed from his closed-off stance and displays strong pitch recognition.

Solarte is currently an above-average runner but figures to slow down as he adds weight. He uses his athleticism well on defense with clean actions and a strong arm. There are few big league shortstops his size, but he'll be given every chance to stick there, even if the Marlins may give him playing time at second and third, as they do with most infield prospects. He will have as much upside as anyone in the Marlins' system if he can tap into his tremendous tools.

Yohanfer Santana 20 y/o Scouting grades: Fastball: 65 | Slider: 55 | Changeup: 50 | Control: 40 | Overall: 40
Santana was touching the high 90s before his elbow injury and spent his time rehabbing adding significant muscle. The right-hander is now up closer to 250 pounds, compared to his listed weight of 200, enabling him to top out at 102.6 mph on his fastball with impressive ride. His upper-80s cutter-like slider is his best secondary pitch with the potential to be plus, and his low-90s changeup also has promise.

Santana's control has wobbled before and after the injury, but the hope is that added strength will make his delivery more consistent and coordinated. This is one of the highest-upside arms in the system, albeit one who turns 21 in October, has yet to pitch stateside and has to be added to the 40-man roster after the 2027 season or be exposed to the Rule 5 Draft. This will be a key season, more than a year after the surgery, to see how his powerful stuff plays against better competition.

Don’t know but seems like ETA is a ways off on these guys.

True, but if you want a self sustaining farm system, you need good prospects up and down the system. Between the 2 Burly trades, I'd much prefer the one with the Marlins. 2 power arms and a potential power bat that plays infield.

Don’t have issue with idea of trading Burley just hoping for a little earlier team impact but that may not be realistic.

[ronnie76]

I think Burly fits into the opening competitive window about 2 years from now.

Not really. He's a FA in '29, will be 28 this year and has an offensive skill set which typicallydoes not age well. Additionally, his coming raise next year will mean the Cardinals would be able to get equal production for far less money. All of that and he is probably at his peek trade value now.

[ronnie76]

Had the Cards dropped 8-10 games off the pace, I think trades like this
could easily get done.
It seems less likely now, however I get the reasoning and for those reasons
I'd look at Herrera too.

I'd trade Hererra before Burly.

Wait! What?? Herrera has more team control, is younger, and is a significantly better player.

[JDW]

I think Burly fits into the opening competitive window about 2 years from now.

Not really. He's a FA in '29, will be 28 this year and has an offensive skill set which typicallydoes not age well. Additionally, his coming raise next year will mean the Cardinals would be able to get equal production for far less money. All of that and he is probably at his peek trade value now.

It'd be nice for the Cards to see if Rainiel can develop also as a 3B while in milb. Maybe they've already evaluated some with him at 3B in practice.
I understand being reluctant to the thought of trading Burly, but Golds had +5 bWAR type seasons at 1B with the Cards. including a +7.7 in 2022. Burly's on track for a +2.4 bWAR this year. He's having a good season, but far from great. Pujol's bWAR at 1B while with the Cards were mostly in the +8's to +9's, including a +9.7 in 2009, or a little over 4 times what AB is tracking for this year. I'd be REAL surprised if Rainiel didn't easily surpass AB's production if he ends up mainly at 1B.

[ronnie76]

I think Burly fits into the opening competitive window about 2 years from now.

Not really. He's a FA in '29, will be 28 this year and has an offensive skill set which typicallydoes not age well. Additionally, his coming raise next year will mean the Cardinals would be able to get equal production for far less money. All of that and he is probably at his peek trade value now.

It'd be nice for the Cards to see if Rainiel can develop also as a 3B while in milb. Maybe they've already evaluated some with him at 3B in practice.
I understand being reluctant to the thought of trading Burly, but Golds had +5 bWAR type seasons at 1B with the Cards. including a +7.7 in 2022. Burly's on track for a +2.4 bWAR this year. He's having a good season, but far from great. Pujol's bWAR at 1B while with the Cards were mostly in the +8's to +9's, including a +9.7 in 2009, or a little over 4 times what AB is tracking for this year. I'd be REAL surprised if Rainiel didn't easily surpass AB's production if he ends up mainly at 1B.

Definitely agree. Rodriguez looks to be the real deal and needs a position to play other than catcher.

[renostl]

Had the Cards dropped 8-10 games off the pace, I think trades like this
could easily get done.
It seems less likely now, however I get the reasoning and for those reasons
I'd look at Herrera too.

I'd trade Hererra before Burly.

Wait! What?? Herrera has more team control, is younger, and is a significantly better player.

There's a year difference.

I'd put them on the same timeline only because of the position deal.
IMO, it would be good to have something worked out with catcher certainly
before the end of 2027. I'd like to see both Rodriguez and Bernal have a less complicated
path. The whole 1B, C, DH needs clarity and both are a part of that
along with others.

As to significantly better, not sure. Both need to bring XBH to the lineup.
This season
AB has 96H, 39 XBH for 168 TB in 398 PA
IH has 86H, 26 XBH, for 135 TB in 423 PA

[ronnie76]

Had the Cards dropped 8-10 games off the pace, I think trades like this
could easily get done.
It seems less likely now, however I get the reasoning and for those reasons
I'd look at Herrera too.

I'd trade Hererra before Burly.

Wait! What?? Herrera has more team control, is younger, and is a significantly better player.

There's a year difference.

I'd put them on the same timeline only because of the position deal.
IMO, it would be good to have something worked out with catcher certainly
before the end of 2027. I'd like to see both Rodriguez and Bernal have a less complicated
path. The whole 1B, C, DH needs clarity and both are a part of that
along with others.

As to significantly better, not sure. Both need to bring XBH to the lineup.
This season
AB has 96H, 39 XBH for 168 TB in 398 PA
IH has 86H, 26 XBH, for 135 TB in 423 PA

That year is a big deal considering the teams timeline. Either way, there's no way anyone should consider trading Herrera over Burleson unless the goal is to extend the rebuild.

Herrera doesn't necessarily need to bring more XBH, he has elite on base ability.

[Hoosier59]

Herrera is basically part of the teams’ catching tandem. When not catching, he’s the primary DH. He fits well into that role. I could see him possibly getting a few games at 1B against some tough lefties next year. The Cardinals need to decide which between Crooks and Bernal is the other half of that tandem. Rodriguez, if he stays at catcher, could be the answer to the other half, as he could DH when Herrera catches, thus keeping both bats in the lineup. However, if he could play a serviceable 3B, the lineup just got a lot deeper.
As to Burleson, I think “ Talking Baseball “ and others aren’t taking into account the leadership role Burly has taken over. I’m not saying he can’t be replaced, but it would not go over well with the rest of the team if he were traded. One of the reasons the team has out done expectations is the core group of young players that have came together. Removing Burly, Winn, Herrera, or Walker would disrupt what they have going.
Also, Burly has continued to improve every year. What makes anyone think we’ve seen the best he can be yet? I fully expect his defense to improve, as well as his slug, while maintaining a high average. His total war hasn’t reached its peak yet, in my opinion.
For me, I wouldn’t trade any of this group, as well as Wetherholt of course.

[ronnie76]

Herrera is basically part of the teams’ catching tandem. When not catching, he’s the primary DH. He fits well into that role. I could see him possibly getting a few games at 1B against some tough lefties next year. The Cardinals need to decide which between Crooks and Bernal is the other half of that tandem. Rodriguez, if he stays at catcher, could be the answer to the other half, as he could DH when Herrera catches, thus keeping both bats in the lineup. However, if he could play a serviceable 3B, the lineup just got a lot deeper.
As to Burleson, I think “ Talking Baseball “ and others aren’t taking into account the leadership role Burly has taken over. I’m not saying he can’t be replaced, but it would not go over well with the rest of the team if he were traded. One of the reasons the team has out done expectations is the core group of young players that have came together. Removing Burly, Winn, Herrera, or Walker would disrupt what they have going.
Also, Burly has continued to improve every year. What makes anyone think we’ve seen the best he can be yet? I fully expect his defense to improve, as well as his slug, while maintaining a high average. His total war hasn’t reached its peak yet, in my opinion.
For me, I wouldn’t trade any of this group, as well as Wetherholt of course.

Doesn't matter if he can actually improve, though I personally think he's peaked and has a high chance of falling of a cliff offensively. As soon as his reaction times falls off a tic, it is going to be extremely hard for him to remain productive. Regardless of if he improves beyond this year or not. Because of his age and contractual control, his trade value will only decrease from here.

[renostl]

Had the Cards dropped 8-10 games off the pace, I think trades like this
could easily get done.
It seems less likely now, however I get the reasoning and for those reasons
I'd look at Herrera too.

I'd trade Hererra before Burly.

Wait! What?? Herrera has more team control, is younger, and is a significantly better player.

There's a year difference.

I'd put them on the same timeline only because of the position deal.
IMO, it would be good to have something worked out with catcher certainly
before the end of 2027. I'd like to see both Rodriguez and Bernal have a less complicated
path. The whole 1B, C, DH needs clarity and both are a part of that
along with others.

As to significantly better, not sure. Both need to bring XBH to the lineup.
This season
AB has 96H, 39 XBH for 168 TB in 398 PA
IH has 86H, 26 XBH, for 135 TB in 423 PA

That year is a big deal considering the teams timeline. Either way, there's no way anyone should consider trading Herrera over Burleson unless the goal is to extend the rebuild.

Herrera doesn't necessarily need to bring more XBH, he has elite on base ability.

No,
he does need to bring XBH, he is mostly a DH and more so each
season going forward. TB matter.
OBP is fine the team needs XBH beyond one player and DH should
be a source of that. Give me 10 2B over 10 HBP any day.
We'll have to disagree on that.

[ronnie76]

Had the Cards dropped 8-10 games off the pace, I think trades like this
could easily get done.
It seems less likely now, however I get the reasoning and for those reasons
I'd look at Herrera too.

I'd trade Hererra before Burly.

Wait! What?? Herrera has more team control, is younger, and is a significantly better player.

There's a year difference.

I'd put them on the same timeline only because of the position deal.
IMO, it would be good to have something worked out with catcher certainly
before the end of 2027. I'd like to see both Rodriguez and Bernal have a less complicated
path. The whole 1B, C, DH needs clarity and both are a part of that
along with others.

As to significantly better, not sure. Both need to bring XBH to the lineup.
This season
AB has 96H, 39 XBH for 168 TB in 398 PA
IH has 86H, 26 XBH, for 135 TB in 423 PA

That year is a big deal considering the teams timeline. Either way, there's no way anyone should consider trading Herrera over Burleson unless the goal is to extend the rebuild.

Herrera doesn't necessarily need to bring more XBH, he has elite on base ability.

No,
he does need to bring XBH, he is mostly a DH and more so each
season going forward. TB matter.
OBP is fine the team needs XBH beyond one player and DH should
be a source of that. Give me 10 2B over 10 HBP any day.
We'll have to disagree on that.

I certainly wouldn't disagree on 10 doubles over 10 HBP and no sane person would. However, that's not what we're talking about here.

[Talkin' Baseball]

Herrera is basically part of the teams’ catching tandem. When not catching, he’s the primary DH. He fits well into that role. I could see him possibly getting a few games at 1B against some tough lefties next year. The Cardinals need to decide which between Crooks and Bernal is the other half of that tandem. Rodriguez, if he stays at catcher, could be the answer to the other half, as he could DH when Herrera catches, thus keeping both bats in the lineup. However, if he could play a serviceable 3B, the lineup just got a lot deeper.
As to Burleson, I think “ Talking Baseball “ and others aren’t taking into account the leadership role Burly has taken over. I’m not saying he can’t be replaced, but it would not go over well with the rest of the team if he were traded. One of the reasons the team has out done expectations is the core group of young players that have came together. Removing Burly, Winn, Herrera, or Walker would disrupt what they have going.
Also, Burly has continued to improve every year. What makes anyone think we’ve seen the best he can be yet? I fully expect his defense to improve, as well as his slug, while maintaining a high average. His total war hasn’t reached its peak yet, in my opinion.
For me, I wouldn’t trade any of this group, as well as Wetherholt of course.

Should they not trade Nootbaar either?

[Hoosier59]

Herrera is basically part of the teams’ catching tandem. When not catching, he’s the primary DH. He fits well into that role. I could see him possibly getting a few games at 1B against some tough lefties next year. The Cardinals need to decide which between Crooks and Bernal is the other half of that tandem. Rodriguez, if he stays at catcher, could be the answer to the other half, as he could DH when Herrera catches, thus keeping both bats in the lineup. However, if he could play a serviceable 3B, the lineup just got a lot deeper.
As to Burleson, I think “ Talking Baseball “ and others aren’t taking into account the leadership role Burly has taken over. I’m not saying he can’t be replaced, but it would not go over well with the rest of the team if he were traded. One of the reasons the team has out done expectations is the core group of young players that have came together. Removing Burly, Winn, Herrera, or Walker would disrupt what they have going.
Also, Burly has continued to improve every year. What makes anyone think we’ve seen the best he can be yet? I fully expect his defense to improve, as well as his slug, while maintaining a high average. His total war hasn’t reached its peak yet, in my opinion.
For me, I wouldn’t trade any of this group, as well as Wetherholt of course.

Should they not trade Nootbaar either?

Noot was out all Spring and a large part of the first half. Although I do think players look up to him, I don’t believe him to be part of that core group. This group came together this Spring after all the veterans had been traded. I was there for two weeks and watched them before and after games. They seemed to have huddled up, and agreed it was on them now, and they embraced it. Noot was injured and not there that much. He won’t be missed that much, or disrupt much if moved.

[Talkin' Baseball]

IMO, Burleson would be missed like Nootbaar was/will be missed. Life goes on.

[riff raff]

IMO, Burleson would be missed like Nootbaar was/will be missed. Life goes on.

Who's replacing +100 RBI's ?

[TimTheTechies]

Had the Cards dropped 8-10 games off the pace, I think trades like this
could easily get done.
It seems less likely now, however I get the reasoning and for those reasons
I'd look at Herrera too.

I'd trade Hererra before Burly.

I am open to trading Burly or Herrera . If I trade Burly, I want Herrera to be my 1st Baseman. The value for both has peaked, and if not signed to long term, they do not fit in the LT plan