Arenado

[Cusecards]

NADO
6 HR
21 RBI
.273 .350 .448 .797

WillyC
9 HR
25 RBI
.253 .362 .468 .830

Donny
3 HR
8 RBI
.274 .386 .452 .839

Goldy
5 HR
12 RBI
.290 .395 .609 1.004

S. Gray
5 - 1
2.93 ERA

While some may lament them not being here I love seeing these former Cardinals do so well, why?

Because POBO's/GM's all over MLB are seeing this too and know they're going to get some value dealing w/the Cardinals which could make future trade returns even better.

WIN-WIN trades are the best.

Allows you to keep going back to that team and dealing again!

Gray and WC would look (drat) good in a Cards uni this season. The glaring holes wouldn’t be there and a few more wins would be in the column. Gray drops Leahy or Pallante to supplement a weak pen. Burly patrols left and the only hole remaining would be catcher.

and the vet presence would stifle the young team's enthusiasm. this solid start ONLY happens if the vets are gone. You think Gray and Contreras would love the tarpless crowd in the clubhouse?? No. The chemistry of the team would have suffered.

WC and Gray are still good players so they would certainly help the team.
The question is: Are they worth the $$ being paid to them as they age?
Then you have to ask how it will look next year etc.

[Goldfan]

Maybe that shoulder injury was a bigger factor than was let on.

Maybe he just likes the Arizona ballpark. Who knows.

But to suggest throwing away two years in the twilight of a career is ridiculous.

Players across all major sports have had a history of dialing it back to force an outcome. This isn’t a impossibility

Where do you come up with these thoughts?

You’ve never heard of players dogging it to get out of situations they don’t want to be in ??

He's a probable Hall of Famer, but not a slam dunk. You think he's going to marginalize 2 seasons of stats so the Cardinals would move him? C'mon.

Intentionally marginalize his own stats?
No.
Mope and pout, thereby diminishing his motivation and competitive interest?
Absolutely.
Did it in Colorado.
Did in in STL.

Agree, but that's not what the OP is saying.

The OP is saying N/A intentionally forced his way out of STL.
It is a fair question, since that is EXACTLY what N/A did in Colorado.
He signed a massive contract and then flat turned against his own teammates. - truly despicable behavior.
That's not what happened in STL.
Super Slo Mo expected N/A to be someone he was not and never will be.
N/A never wanted to be a leader and predictably failed spectacularly when asked to become one.
Leaving STL under a cloud was inevitable - but N/A did not create that situation.
Super Slo Mo and The Marmot did.
It ended with N/A simply playing for his paycheck, which was a sad and pathetic outcome.
I hope his teammates in AZ do the heavy lifting and carry him into the playoffs - which is all he wants at this point.
Every fading vet on the downside of his career wants one last chance to play in October - and I don't begrudge him that one bit.
After all, the Cardinals instantly got better the day he left - just as I said they would.

Good assessment. BDW and Mo saw in Nado who they wanted to see, not who he really was and is. STL was not a great landing spot for him. Goldie covered him well enough for a while to keep him happy and productive. Nado is just so self-centered, he can't be bothered with things like leadership and mentoring. He was pretty lost the last two years in STL.

AMEN

[Goldfan]

NADO
6 HR
21 RBI
.273 .350 .448 .797

WillyC
9 HR
25 RBI
.253 .362 .468 .830

Donny
3 HR
8 RBI
.274 .386 .452 .839

Goldy
5 HR
12 RBI
.290 .395 .609 1.004

S. Gray
5 - 1
2.93 ERA

While some may lament them not being here I love seeing these former Cardinals do so well, why?

Because POBO's/GM's all over MLB are seeing this too and know they're going to get some value dealing w/the Cardinals which could make future trade returns even better.

WIN-WIN trades are the best.

Allows you to keep going back to that team and dealing again!

Gray and WC would look (drat) good in a Cards uni this season. The glaring holes wouldn’t be there and a few more wins would be in the column. Gray drops Leahy or Pallante to supplement a weak pen. Burly patrols left and the only hole remaining would be catcher.

and the vet presence would stifle the young team's enthusiasm. this solid start ONLY happens if the vets are gone. You think Gray and Contreras would love the tarpless crowd in the clubhouse?? No. The chemistry of the team would have suffered.

So you’ve obviously never seen WC on a baseball diamond??

[mattmitchl44]

Did Pujols tank for five straight seasons to get back to St. Louis?

[BrockFloodMaris]

Did Pujols tank for five straight seasons to get back to St. Louis?

Love the blue font! I miss the good old days of seeing blue font every few posts. I'm a big fan of sarcasm, and the blue font was made for it.

[blackinkbiz]

Was NA intentionally tanking the last couple years…..or in the very least failingly disinterested so he could get his ticket out of STL?

He's always been a prima donna, which is why his career's taken the trajectory it did. TBS, he was definitely having shoulder issues the past few seasons in STL. It was obvious in 2023 when, during the first week of the regular season, he was unable to get around on a ball he'd had no issues with in the past, but instead he flipped out screaming as though he'd been mired in a 2-month-long slump.

Personally, I think a large degree of his pouting was not getting the benefit of the doubt from fans for his lack of performance due to his shoulder. Again, prima donna, I mean, how about being proactive, dummy, and take 6-12 months to heal your shoulder BEFORE you become replacement level?

All TBS, AZ's def a hitter's park and Busch def is NOT. He was also terrible in the playoffs, and had bad luck, the one potentially game-changing ball he smoked should have traveled 450 ft for a game-changing 3-run HR if I'm not mistaken, but instead was caught by a weird gust of wind.

Oh well, he had plenty of other chances in STL, but like all idiots with the "gamer" attitude, they refuse to allow their body to heal as they age so they can produce at their pay level, instead they just play play play play play blah blah blah.

[OldRed]

Was NA intentionally tanking the last couple years…..or in the very least failingly disinterested so he could get his ticket out of STL?

He's always been a prima donna, which is why his career's taken the trajectory it did. TBS, he was definitely having shoulder issues the past few seasons in STL. It was obvious in 2023 when, during the first week of the regular season, he was unable to get around on a ball he'd had no issues with in the past, but instead he flipped out screaming as though he'd been mired in a 2-month-long slump.

Personally, I think a large degree of his pouting was not getting the benefit of the doubt from fans for his lack of performance due to his shoulder. Again, prima donna, I mean, how about being proactive, dummy, and take 6-12 months to heal your shoulder BEFORE you become replacement level?

All TBS, AZ's def a hitter's park and Busch def is NOT. He was also terrible in the playoffs, and had bad luck, the one potentially game-changing ball he smoked should have traveled 450 ft for a game-changing 3-run HR if I'm not mistaken, but instead was caught by a weird gust of wind.

Oh well, he had plenty of other chances in STL, but like all idiots with the "gamer" attitude, they refuse to allow their body to heal as they age so they can produce at their pay level, instead they just play play play play play blah blah blah.

Some fans think a player is dogging it when they are playing thru an injury. They probably thought the same with Scott Rolen.

[Melville]

Maybe that shoulder injury was a bigger factor than was let on.

Maybe he just likes the Arizona ballpark. Who knows.

But to suggest throwing away two years in the twilight of a career is ridiculous.

Players across all major sports have had a history of dialing it back to force an outcome. This isn’t a impossibility

Where do you come up with these thoughts?

You’ve never heard of players dogging it to get out of situations they don’t want to be in ??

He's a probable Hall of Famer, but not a slam dunk. You think he's going to marginalize 2 seasons of stats so the Cardinals would move him? C'mon.

Intentionally marginalize his own stats?
No.
Mope and pout, thereby diminishing his motivation and competitive interest?
Absolutely.
Did it in Colorado.
Did in in STL.

Agree, but that's not what the OP is saying.

The OP is saying N/A intentionally forced his way out of STL.
It is a fair question, since that is EXACTLY what N/A did in Colorado.
He signed a massive contract and then flat turned against his own teammates. - truly despicable behavior.
That's not what happened in STL.
Super Slo Mo expected N/A to be someone he was not and never will be.
N/A never wanted to be a leader and predictably failed spectacularly when asked to become one.
Leaving STL under a cloud was inevitable - but N/A did not create that situation.
Super Slo Mo and The Marmot did.
It ended with N/A simply playing for his paycheck, which was a sad and pathetic outcome.
I hope his teammates in AZ do the heavy lifting and carry him into the playoffs - which is all he wants at this point.
Every fading vet on the downside of his career wants one last chance to play in October - and I don't begrudge him that one bit.
After all, the Cardinals instantly got better the day he left - just as I said they would.

You are so full of yourself. If you can remember he was injured last season. Many baseball players have come back seasons after they heal.

Never about me.
Only and always about the game.

[Melville]

There’s no question that Arenado’s last two seasons here saw significant drop off.
But I don’t think(and I have zero inside info) he intentionally underperformed.
Actually the opposite:
Declining skills due to age?
Injury?(shoulder)
Failure to adapt his game and change??

Again....just guessing but I don’t see him tanking.
Moody & stubborn??
Yes

Last 3 lines are spot on.

[Melville]

Maybe that shoulder injury was a bigger factor than was let on.

Maybe he just likes the Arizona ballpark. Who knows.

But to suggest throwing away two years in the twilight of a career is ridiculous.

Players across all major sports have had a history of dialing it back to force an outcome. This isn’t a impossibility

Where do you come up with these thoughts?

You’ve never heard of players dogging it to get out of situations they don’t want to be in ??

He's a probable Hall of Famer, but not a slam dunk. You think he's going to marginalize 2 seasons of stats so the Cardinals would move him? C'mon.

Intentionally marginalize his own stats?
No.
Mope and pout, thereby diminishing his motivation and competitive interest?
Absolutely.
Did it in Colorado.
Did in in STL.

Agree, but that's not what the OP is saying.

The OP is saying N/A intentionally forced his way out of STL.
It is a fair question, since that is EXACTLY what N/A did in Colorado.
He signed a massive contract and then flat turned against his own teammates. - truly despicable behavior.
That's not what happened in STL.
Super Slo Mo expected N/A to be someone he was not and never will be.
N/A never wanted to be a leader and predictably failed spectacularly when asked to become one.
Leaving STL under a cloud was inevitable - but N/A did not create that situation.
Super Slo Mo and The Marmot did.
It ended with N/A simply playing for his paycheck, which was a sad and pathetic outcome.
I hope his teammates in AZ do the heavy lifting and carry him into the playoffs - which is all he wants at this point.
Every fading vet on the downside of his career wants one last chance to play in October - and I don't begrudge him that one bit.
After all, the Cardinals instantly got better the day he left - just as I said they would.

Good assessment. BDW and Mo saw in Nado who they wanted to see, not who he really was and is. STL was not a great landing spot for him. Goldie covered him well enough for a while to keep him happy and productive. Nado is just so self-centered, he can't be bothered with things like leadership and mentoring. He was pretty lost the last two years in STL.

Your 2nd sentence is perfection.
Succinct.
Accurate.

[nighthawk]

Was NA intentionally tanking the last couple years…..or in the very least failingly disinterested so he could get his ticket out of STL?

Psst....park factors. He's hitting .333 .413 .530 .944 at home and .222//.293/.407/.701 on the road. Chase Field is the second best park to hit in.
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderbo ... rk-factors

You know, you can look this stuff up.

[renostl]

Maybe that shoulder injury was a bigger factor than was let on.

Maybe he just likes the Arizona ballpark. Who knows.

But to suggest throwing away two years in the twilight of a career is ridiculous.

Players across all major sports have had a history of dialing it back to force an outcome. This isn’t a impossibility

Where do you come up with these thoughts?

You’ve never heard of players dogging it to get out of situations they don’t want to be in ??

Arenado's situation the last TWO YEARS: playing for a team that was looking to trade him and rebuild.
Arenado's wish: To win a WS before he retires.

If your theory is correct, NA's dogging it was self-sabotage, since it reduced the number of teams interested in trading for him.

Which makes your OP unbelievably dumb...

The first point you made was in NA's control, IMO. He also could have
wanted to stay and my assumption is that he wanted out and just did not go public
with it like he did in CO. Totally opinionated based on the sequence of events.

There is no way NA intentionally decreased his production, a position that requires
forgetting everything about NA specifically and any player that ever has reached similar
accomplishments as NA.

There is a full list of things that probably had some effect on his production
in St. Louis the last 2 seasons. Some are objective like injury, some are subjective
like attitude. Subjective like my very own second sentence.

[Melville]

Did Pujols tank for five straight seasons to get back to St. Louis?

Love the blue font! I miss the good old days of seeing blue font every few posts. I'm a big fan of sarcasm, and the blue font was made for it.

Respectfully, by definition, sarcasm ceases to be sarcasm if it is betrayed by blue font.

[JohnnyMO]

Did Pujols tank for five straight seasons to get back to St. Louis?

Love the blue font! I miss the good old days of seeing blue font every few posts. I'm a big fan of sarcasm, and the blue font was made for it.

Respectfully, by definition, sarcasm ceases to be sarcasm if it is betrayed by blue font.

One of the things we agree on.

[Wattage]

Was NA intentionally tanking the last couple years…..or in the very least failingly disinterested so he could get his ticket out of STL?

1. arizona is one of the most hitter friendly ballparks. dze to altitude, pitchers have problems with the movement on tbeir pitches. similar to colorado.

2.while to a lesser extent than this year. arenado started off last year hitting alright before tanking. now he had injury problems- but he likely will again- and thats when the numbers will drop.

3. arenado actually declined a trade to leave st. louis. he was the one leveraging his no trade cpause while mo was trying to move him so he didnt want to leave tjat bad or only for select destinations

[dugoutrex]

Maybe that shoulder injury was a bigger factor than was let on.

Maybe he just likes the Arizona ballpark. Who knows.

But to suggest throwing away two years in the twilight of a career is ridiculous.

Players across all major sports have had a history of dialing it back to force an outcome. This isn’t a impossibility

Where do you come up with these thoughts?

You’ve never heard of players dogging it to get out of situations they don’t want to be in ??

He's a probable Hall of Famer, but not a slam dunk. You think he's going to marginalize 2 seasons of stats so the Cardinals would move him? C'mon.

Intentionally marginalize his own stats?
No.
Mope and pout, thereby diminishing his motivation and competitive interest?
Absolutely.
Did it in Colorado.
Did in in STL.

Agree, but that's not what the OP is saying.

The OP is saying N/A intentionally forced his way out of STL.
It is a fair question, since that is EXACTLY what N/A did in Colorado.
He signed a massive contract and then flat turned against his own teammates. - truly despicable behavior.
That's not what happened in STL.
Super Slo Mo expected N/A to be someone he was not and never will be.
N/A never wanted to be a leader and predictably failed spectacularly when asked to become one.
Leaving STL under a cloud was inevitable - but N/A did not create that situation.
Super Slo Mo and The Marmot did.
It ended with N/A simply playing for his paycheck, which was a sad and pathetic outcome.
I hope his teammates in AZ do the heavy lifting and carry him into the playoffs - which is all he wants at this point.
Every fading vet on the downside of his career wants one last chance to play in October - and I don't begrudge him that one bit.
After all, the Cardinals instantly got better the day he left - just as I said they would.

You are so full of yourself. If you can remember he was injured last season. Many baseball players have come back seasons after they heal.

Never about me.
Only and always about the game.

don't forget about the sandwiches ... and fries too, of course!