Bloom on the course for this season

[rbirules]

The question of "What if the Cardinals keep winning?" has been pervasive amongst Cardinals fans after the surprising start to the year. I read a (humorous) trade idea in the comments over at Viva El Birdos within the last week (I believe Kindred was the poster, IIRC, to credit my source).

<snip>

Imagine our current lineup with this pitching staff . . .

Gray, May, McGreevy, Libby, Pallante/Leahy/Dobbins
ROB, Chapman, Whitlock?, Romero, Fernandez, Graceffo, Leahy, Svanson/Stanek/???

That team probably isn't going to win it all, but I think you can at least compete down the stretch with that team, and you haven't even spent all the money you saved by dumping contracts this winter. I know it's asking a lot for an "arbitrage" situation like this to occur, where we get a player back for less than we received selling them, but that's how what happens with assets with diminishing value. How many playoffs teams, or hopeful playoff teams, could potentially afford to add payroll like this to keep the prospect cost down? I think most of those teams are near the top of their budget already.

(No, I'm not going to expand the trade and get Willson Contreras back even though a RH hitting 1B/DH would do wonders for this roster).

Trades that involve material assumption of liability for underwater contracts are pretty much de facto free agent acquisitions (unless you want additional contract buy-down from the counterparty, which would require kicking in more/better prospects). In the scenario you’re sketching, ownership effectively would be acquiring talent mainly for cash (much like a FA acquisition), but only after several more cards have been revealed and they know they have a legitimate playoff shot. If ownership were willing to spend the additional money, that sort of trade is not inconsistent with Bloom’s longer-term plan, especially when the tail of the assumed liability is short.

Exactly. I don't think (m)any fans on here want to give away prospects that we just painstakingly acquired by trading away good players (and paying to buy several of those prospects in the process) to chase immediate marginal gains, but I think spending (mostly) money to improve this team is a very good idea.

Of course the idea of reacquiring a player, or players we just traded away is incredibly unlikely to happen, but Bloom clearly has a working relationship with the Red Sox FO (former colleagues) and knew their prospects well. The main reason I don't think it was absolutely crazy is because the Red Sox are having a poor season and are in a position where they could reset their luxury tax penalty counter by dumping $24M in contracts. Other teams off to bad starts could dump some, or a lot of, contracts to get below a higher threshold but not reset the counter entirely. This makes Boston a (highly) motivated seller, especially in terms of salary, if they are in that position. Most teams, like the Red Sox that can afford it financially, will pay down some of the contract to get better prospects (like the Cardinals just did), but this is a rare instance of a team that will be wanting to shed contracts, and that's not always easy to do at the deadline (especially when there's only a third of a season remaining, $24M then is $72M in opening day payroll).

Cardinals ownership has been decreasing payroll for years now and really dropped it over the winter. Now that the team is winning (so far, this could very easily not still be the case at the deadline) with young exciting talent, they could spend a fraction of what they saved from dumping those contracts ($45-50M I don't remember the exact amount) to acquire short term solutions for very little in terms of prospect costs.

Again, it doesn't have to be Sonny Gray . . . but I think Chapman and/or Whitlock are interesting options. I'm not sure what a better, cheaper (in terms of prospects) SP option would be compared to Gray, I'm open to suggestions. Also worth considering, if you pick up Gray's option instead of paying $10M opt out, and Chapman's option vests, you might end up paying only a fraction of that salary if their is a work stoppage in 2027. Unless you think ownership was going to spend big this winter, going into an expiring CBA, then I'm not that worried about having vesting options, or picking up options for next year. Once again, this makes sense if ownership is ready to invest payroll back into this team come the deadline.

[ClassicO]

I'm unsure what Bloom and the organization will do regarding trades or free agent veteran acquisitions to improve the team's talent.
In short, based on Bloom's consistent message that he's playing the long game, I can't see him doing many MLB-ready acquisitions until the young core is set. I do see him trying to make a few more trades for young, high-ceiling arms. But why add vets while you're trying to build a young core?

Once he has a good idea of that core, then make FA moves and trade or DFA those who don't fit.
If I am Bloom, I'm trying to see if: 1) Walker is real; 2) Scott is not; 3) Burly can hit lefties and improve defensively; 4) Herrera can catch well enough to be there 1/3rd of the time; 5) Church can play CF and hit MLB avg for a CF; 6) Winn can hit better.
He seems to be giving Gorman a lot of rope, but when does that end?

Then there's the development of the potential star players like Josh Baez and Raniel, and a bench/platoon guy like Blaze. And is Tai Peete as good as he looks this year?
The most important factor is the young arms. They need 1-2 years to see what they have with high-end guys like Doyle, Franklin, Cijntje, Fajardo, Clarke, Mathews - and to a lesser extent Hjerpe, Hence, Roby, Ixan Henderson, and others.

[Talkin' Baseball]

I'm unsure what Bloom and the organization will do regarding trades or free agent veteran acquisitions to improve the team's talent.
In short, based on Bloom's consistent message that he's playing the long game, I can't see him doing many MLB-ready acquisitions until the young core is set. I do see him trying to make a few more trades for young, high-ceiling arms. But why add vets while you're trying to build a young core?

Once he has a good idea of that core, then make FA moves and trade or DFA those who don't fit.
If I am Bloom, I'm trying to see if: 1) Walker is real; 2) Scott is not; 3) Burly can hit lefties and improve defensively; 4) Herrera can catch well enough to be there 1/3rd of the time; 5) Church can play CF and hit MLB avg for a CF; 6) Winn can hit better.
He seems to be giving Gorman a lot of rope, but when does that end?

Then there's the development of the potential star players like Josh Baez and Raniel, and a bench/platoon guy like Blaze. And is Tai Peete as good as he looks this year?
The most important factor is the young arms. They need 1-2 years to see what they have with high-end guys like Doyle, Franklin, Cijntje, Fajardo, Clarke, Mathews - and to a lesser extent Hjerpe, Hence, Roby, Ixan Henderson, and others.

Well said. These are the measuring sticks for the year and will speak much more to the success of the org going forward than their place in the standings this season.

[Goldfan]

Waiting on the CORE

If the CORE playing in 2026 wins 90…..what are they? Not core

Some of you are saying you must have something that doesn’t even exist in the organization WHILE you’re watching IT with your own eyes each day

Are you contractually obligated to parrot the Org talking points or can you think for yourself?

[JuanAgosto]

Abdicating responsibility to win this season for HOPES of better chances in the future is stupid. This year might be that lightening in the bottle and every “perfect” year in the future could be disappointments. Is he here to win or write the script of some narrative in his head? No one saying trade away every viable prospect for a vet but making one move that could help push this team in to the playoffs shouldn’t be so easily dismissed the first of MAY. There are no guarantees with any of this. If 2026 is the Cards season then play to WIN

You've nailed it with this unique concept that a team should try to "WIN." .

I'm sure Bloom would love to have your insight.

PS - would you rather win more games this year and reduce the chance to win the World Series in future years? Not I. It's all about the ring. Bloom's plan is designed for that. Just a guess, but I think you're heavily in debt.

Here is the unspoken problem with the thought process sacrifice now to win in 3-4 years. When that window you are all waiting on opens, Winn, Burleson, Walker, Gorman, Liberatore, and Herrera will be entering free agency territory. Do you think BDW is signing them to big deals? Nope. He brought Bloom in to run the Rays model. Once a guy nears free agency, trade him. Any potential window with this group is 1 to 2 years. And then you better hope Bloom nails those trades.

Yes they are wanting to adopt the rays model of being successful at drafting and developing good talent youre wrong about them going to a small market team. They are really just going back to what made the cardinals successful in the past being able to develop good young cost controlled players and eventually supplementing them with veterans. The cardinals recent problems have been they have been unable to develop good cost controlled players so instead of being able to spend on one good player they have had to disperse the money around to multiple mediocre and supplemental players who they then have to elevate to key roles instead of being the supplemental players they are. Gray wasnt an ace but because they could not develop any internal aces they had to elevate him to ace instead of a 2 or 3 starter which he is. Contreras great supplemental player but because the caridnals couldnt develop a decent middle of the order bat they had to elevate him into middle of the order bat instead of 5th or 6th

You are avoiding my full statements. You mention "cost controlled " players. Im talking about when those players hit free agency. BDW will not pay them. He may retain one, two max. It will be next guy up from Memphis to replace the rest. So the window for the group i mentioned will be extremely small.

This model makes financial sense for an owner who focuses primarily on profit. But how many rings has Tampa won using it?

[Ozziesfan41]

Abdicating responsibility to win this season for HOPES of better chances in the future is stupid. This year might be that lightening in the bottle and every “perfect” year in the future could be disappointments. Is he here to win or write the script of some narrative in his head? No one saying trade away every viable prospect for a vet but making one move that could help push this team in to the playoffs shouldn’t be so easily dismissed the first of MAY. There are no guarantees with any of this. If 2026 is the Cards season then play to WIN

You've nailed it with this unique concept that a team should try to "WIN." .

I'm sure Bloom would love to have your insight.

PS - would you rather win more games this year and reduce the chance to win the World Series in future years? Not I. It's all about the ring. Bloom's plan is designed for that. Just a guess, but I think you're heavily in debt.

Here is the unspoken problem with the thought process sacrifice now to win in 3-4 years. When that window you are all waiting on opens, Winn, Burleson, Walker, Gorman, Liberatore, and Herrera will be entering free agency territory. Do you think BDW is signing them to big deals? Nope. He brought Bloom in to run the Rays model. Once a guy nears free agency, trade him. Any potential window with this group is 1 to 2 years. And then you better hope Bloom nails those trades.

Yes they are wanting to adopt the rays model of being successful at drafting and developing good talent youre wrong about them going to a small market team. They are really just going back to what made the cardinals successful in the past being able to develop good young cost controlled players and eventually supplementing them with veterans. The cardinals recent problems have been they have been unable to develop good cost controlled players so instead of being able to spend on one good player they have had to disperse the money around to multiple mediocre and supplemental players who they then have to elevate to key roles instead of being the supplemental players they are. Gray wasnt an ace but because they could not develop any internal aces they had to elevate him to ace instead of a 2 or 3 starter which he is. Contreras great supplemental player but because the caridnals couldnt develop a decent middle of the order bat they had to elevate him into middle of the order bat instead of 5th or 6th

You are avoiding my full statements. You mention "cost controlled " players. Im talking about when those players hit free agency. BDW will not pay them. He may retain one, two max. It will be next guy up from Memphis to replace the rest. So the window for the group i mentioned will be extremely small.

This model makes financial sense for an owner who focuses primarily on profit. But how many rings has Tampa won using it?

They will sign them to early extensions and the rays would probably have rings if they had the payroll the cardinals can have doneand will again. There’s nothing in Dewitt’s past that’s says they are going to operate as a small market team going forward and they and bloom have said the exact opposite people saying they are it’s their opinion based on zero evidence

[JuanAgosto]

Abdicating responsibility to win this season for HOPES of better chances in the future is stupid. This year might be that lightening in the bottle and every “perfect” year in the future could be disappointments. Is he here to win or write the script of some narrative in his head? No one saying trade away every viable prospect for a vet but making one move that could help push this team in to the playoffs shouldn’t be so easily dismissed the first of MAY. There are no guarantees with any of this. If 2026 is the Cards season then play to WIN

You've nailed it with this unique concept that a team should try to "WIN." .

I'm sure Bloom would love to have your insight.

PS - would you rather win more games this year and reduce the chance to win the World Series in future years? Not I. It's all about the ring. Bloom's plan is designed for that. Just a guess, but I think you're heavily in debt.

Here is the unspoken problem with the thought process sacrifice now to win in 3-4 years. When that window you are all waiting on opens, Winn, Burleson, Walker, Gorman, Liberatore, and Herrera will be entering free agency territory. Do you think BDW is signing them to big deals? Nope. He brought Bloom in to run the Rays model. Once a guy nears free agency, trade him. Any potential window with this group is 1 to 2 years. And then you better hope Bloom nails those trades.

Yes they are wanting to adopt the rays model of being successful at drafting and developing good talent youre wrong about them going to a small market team. They are really just going back to what made the cardinals successful in the past being able to develop good young cost controlled players and eventually supplementing them with veterans. The cardinals recent problems have been they have been unable to develop good cost controlled players so instead of being able to spend on one good player they have had to disperse the money around to multiple mediocre and supplemental players who they then have to elevate to key roles instead of being the supplemental players they are. Gray wasnt an ace but because they could not develop any internal aces they had to elevate him to ace instead of a 2 or 3 starter which he is. Contreras great supplemental player but because the caridnals couldnt develop a decent middle of the order bat they had to elevate him into middle of the order bat instead of 5th or 6th

You are avoiding my full statements. You mention "cost controlled " players. Im talking about when those players hit free agency. BDW will not pay them. He may retain one, two max. It will be next guy up from Memphis to replace the rest. So the window for the group i mentioned will be extremely small.

This model makes financial sense for an owner who focuses primarily on profit. But how many rings has Tampa won using it?

They will sign them to early extensions and the rays would probably have rings if they had the payroll the cardinals can have doneand will again. There’s nothing in Dewitt’s past that’s says they are going to operate as a small market team going forward and they and bloom have said the exact opposite people saying they are it’s their opinion based on zero evidence

A decrease in attendance and a messed up TV situation will be reasons BDW gives to not sign guys. There is evidence that DeWitt will not spend. Was Pujols signed in 2011? Outside of Matt Holliday, what top tier FA has DeWitt chased? Sure, he will try to lock a guy in early. Because he is gambling on a lower salary over the long haul. But he will limit it to 1 or 2 guys.

[Ozziesfan41]

Abdicating responsibility to win this season for HOPES of better chances in the future is stupid. This year might be that lightening in the bottle and every “perfect” year in the future could be disappointments. Is he here to win or write the script of some narrative in his head? No one saying trade away every viable prospect for a vet but making one move that could help push this team in to the playoffs shouldn’t be so easily dismissed the first of MAY. There are no guarantees with any of this. If 2026 is the Cards season then play to WIN

You've nailed it with this unique concept that a team should try to "WIN." .

I'm sure Bloom would love to have your insight.

PS - would you rather win more games this year and reduce the chance to win the World Series in future years? Not I. It's all about the ring. Bloom's plan is designed for that. Just a guess, but I think you're heavily in debt.

Here is the unspoken problem with the thought process sacrifice now to win in 3-4 years. When that window you are all waiting on opens, Winn, Burleson, Walker, Gorman, Liberatore, and Herrera will be entering free agency territory. Do you think BDW is signing them to big deals? Nope. He brought Bloom in to run the Rays model. Once a guy nears free agency, trade him. Any potential window with this group is 1 to 2 years. And then you better hope Bloom nails those trades.

Yes they are wanting to adopt the rays model of being successful at drafting and developing good talent youre wrong about them going to a small market team. They are really just going back to what made the cardinals successful in the past being able to develop good young cost controlled players and eventually supplementing them with veterans. The cardinals recent problems have been they have been unable to develop good cost controlled players so instead of being able to spend on one good player they have had to disperse the money around to multiple mediocre and supplemental players who they then have to elevate to key roles instead of being the supplemental players they are. Gray wasnt an ace but because they could not develop any internal aces they had to elevate him to ace instead of a 2 or 3 starter which he is. Contreras great supplemental player but because the caridnals couldnt develop a decent middle of the order bat they had to elevate him into middle of the order bat instead of 5th or 6th

You are avoiding my full statements. You mention "cost controlled " players. Im talking about when those players hit free agency. BDW will not pay them. He may retain one, two max. It will be next guy up from Memphis to replace the rest. So the window for the group i mentioned will be extremely small.

This model makes financial sense for an owner who focuses primarily on profit. But how many rings has Tampa won using it?

They will sign them to early extensions and the rays would probably have rings if they had the payroll the cardinals can have doneand will again. There’s nothing in Dewitt’s past that’s says they are going to operate as a small market team going forward and they and bloom have said the exact opposite people saying they are it’s their opinion based on zero evidence

A decrease in attendance and a messed up TV situation will be reasons BDW gives to not sign guys. There is evidence that DeWitt will not spend. Was Pujols signed in 2011? Outside of Matt Holliday, what top tier FA has DeWitt chased? Sure, he will try to lock a guy in early. Because he is gambling on a lower salary over the long haul. But he will limit it to 1 or 2 guys.

They offered heyward 200 million and more than the cubs thank god he chose to sign with the cubs instead they offered price 200 million thank god the redsox refused to be outbid and were willing to pay whatever it took to get him. The tv
Situation won’t last forever attendance will go up if the winning continues and also dewitt knows when he took over and started winning attendance went up so they will do it again as they always have. It’s like people have no idea how a proper rebuild works the cubs did it the astros did it you strip it down cut payroll build a core sign players around it. But thats okay if you want to believe they will be a small market team going forward but don’t expect every one to jump on board when there is zero evidence and only you saying but but trust me its true

[Cusecards]

Waiting on the CORE

If the CORE playing in 2026 wins 90…..what are they? Not core

Some of you are saying you must have something that doesn’t even exist in the organization WHILE you’re watching IT with your own eyes each day

Are you contractually obligated to parrot the Org talking points or can you think for yourself?

English as a Second Language?
Still waiting on your LIST!

[JuanAgosto]

Abdicating responsibility to win this season for HOPES of better chances in the future is stupid. This year might be that lightening in the bottle and every “perfect” year in the future could be disappointments. Is he here to win or write the script of some narrative in his head? No one saying trade away every viable prospect for a vet but making one move that could help push this team in to the playoffs shouldn’t be so easily dismissed the first of MAY. There are no guarantees with any of this. If 2026 is the Cards season then play to WIN

You've nailed it with this unique concept that a team should try to "WIN." .

I'm sure Bloom would love to have your insight.

PS - would you rather win more games this year and reduce the chance to win the World Series in future years? Not I. It's all about the ring. Bloom's plan is designed for that. Just a guess, but I think you're heavily in debt.

Here is the unspoken problem with the thought process sacrifice now to win in 3-4 years. When that window you are all waiting on opens, Winn, Burleson, Walker, Gorman, Liberatore, and Herrera will be entering free agency territory. Do you think BDW is signing them to big deals? Nope. He brought Bloom in to run the Rays model. Once a guy nears free agency, trade him. Any potential window with this group is 1 to 2 years. And then you better hope Bloom nails those trades.

Yes they are wanting to adopt the rays model of being successful at drafting and developing good talent youre wrong about them going to a small market team. They are really just going back to what made the cardinals successful in the past being able to develop good young cost controlled players and eventually supplementing them with veterans. The cardinals recent problems have been they have been unable to develop good cost controlled players so instead of being able to spend on one good player they have had to disperse the money around to multiple mediocre and supplemental players who they then have to elevate to key roles instead of being the supplemental players they are. Gray wasnt an ace but because they could not develop any internal aces they had to elevate him to ace instead of a 2 or 3 starter which he is. Contreras great supplemental player but because the caridnals couldnt develop a decent middle of the order bat they had to elevate him into middle of the order bat instead of 5th or 6th

You are avoiding my full statements. You mention "cost controlled " players. Im talking about when those players hit free agency. BDW will not pay them. He may retain one, two max. It will be next guy up from Memphis to replace the rest. So the window for the group i mentioned will be extremely small.

This model makes financial sense for an owner who focuses primarily on profit. But how many rings has Tampa won using it?

They will sign them to early extensions and the rays would probably have rings if they had the payroll the cardinals can have doneand will again. There’s nothing in Dewitt’s past that’s says they are going to operate as a small market team going forward and they and bloom have said the exact opposite people saying they are it’s their opinion based on zero evidence

A decrease in attendance and a messed up TV situation will be reasons BDW gives to not sign guys. There is evidence that DeWitt will not spend. Was Pujols signed in 2011? Outside of Matt Holliday, what top tier FA has DeWitt chased? Sure, he will try to lock a guy in early. Because he is gambling on a lower salary over the long haul. But he will limit it to 1 or 2 guys.

They offered heyward 200 million and more than the cubs thank god he chose to sign with the cubs instead they offered price 200 million thank god the redsox refused to be outbid and were willing to pay whatever it took to get him. The tv
Situation won’t last forever attendance will go up if the winning continues and also dewitt knows when he took over and started winning attendance went up so they will do it again as they always have. It’s like people have no idea how a proper rebuild works the cubs did it the astros did it you strip it down cut payroll build a core sign players around it. But thats okay if you want to believe they will be a small market team going forward but don’t expect every one to jump on board when there is zero evidence and only you saying but but trust me its true

My original argument was to shoot for a playoff spot if you are still in contention at the trade deadline. Im not advocating adding players. Just saying dont be sellers. I do not understand those saying a playoff appearance is bad. Its playoff experience for a young team. Everyone acts like its a given that they'd get their (bleep) kicked in two games.

If Bloom decides to be a seller, his viable options are May, Romero, Nootbaar, and O'Brien. May and Nootbaar probably aren't fetching a lot due to injury histories and inconsistent play. JoJo isn't getting you a difference making prospect. And Bloom is attempting to stockpile power arms. Why the hell would he trade his best bullpen arm (O'Brien), with multi years of control?

[mattmitchl44]

Abdicating responsibility to win this season for HOPES of better chances in the future is stupid. This year might be that lightening in the bottle and every “perfect” year in the future could be disappointments. Is he here to win or write the script of some narrative in his head? No one saying trade away every viable prospect for a vet but making one move that could help push this team in to the playoffs shouldn’t be so easily dismissed the first of MAY. There are no guarantees with any of this. If 2026 is the Cards season then play to WIN

You've nailed it with this unique concept that a team should try to "WIN." .

I'm sure Bloom would love to have your insight.

PS - would you rather win more games this year and reduce the chance to win the World Series in future years? Not I. It's all about the ring. Bloom's plan is designed for that. Just a guess, but I think you're heavily in debt.

Here is the unspoken problem with the thought process sacrifice now to win in 3-4 years. When that window you are all waiting on opens, Winn, Burleson, Walker, Gorman, Liberatore, and Herrera will be entering free agency territory. Do you think BDW is signing them to big deals? Nope. He brought Bloom in to run the Rays model. Once a guy nears free agency, trade him. Any potential window with this group is 1 to 2 years. And then you better hope Bloom nails those trades.

Yes they are wanting to adopt the rays model of being successful at drafting and developing good talent youre wrong about them going to a small market team. They are really just going back to what made the cardinals successful in the past being able to develop good young cost controlled players and eventually supplementing them with veterans. The cardinals recent problems have been they have been unable to develop good cost controlled players so instead of being able to spend on one good player they have had to disperse the money around to multiple mediocre and supplemental players who they then have to elevate to key roles instead of being the supplemental players they are. Gray wasnt an ace but because they could not develop any internal aces they had to elevate him to ace instead of a 2 or 3 starter which he is. Contreras great supplemental player but because the caridnals couldnt develop a decent middle of the order bat they had to elevate him into middle of the order bat instead of 5th or 6th

You are avoiding my full statements. You mention "cost controlled " players. Im talking about when those players hit free agency. BDW will not pay them. He may retain one, two max. It will be next guy up from Memphis to replace the rest. So the window for the group i mentioned will be extremely small.

This model makes financial sense for an owner who focuses primarily on profit. But how many rings has Tampa won using it?

They will sign them to early extensions and the rays would probably have rings if they had the payroll the cardinals can have doneand will again. There’s nothing in Dewitt’s past that’s says they are going to operate as a small market team going forward and they and bloom have said the exact opposite people saying they are it’s their opinion based on zero evidence

A decrease in attendance and a messed up TV situation will be reasons BDW gives to not sign guys. There is evidence that DeWitt will not spend. Was Pujols signed in 2011? Outside of Matt Holliday, what top tier FA has DeWitt chased? Sure, he will try to lock a guy in early. Because he is gambling on a lower salary over the long haul. But he will limit it to 1 or 2 guys.

Pujols was signed to a 7 yr./$100 million extension before he ever got to FA. That was what kept him in St. Louis for 11 years.

The first place the Cardinals need to start spending money again is in locking up guys like Wetherholt, Winn, Herrera, Burleson, Walker, etc.

The Cardinals should have the flexibility to do a lot more of that than the Rays have ever had. And the Cardinals need to pursue that option not just for one or two guys, but for any guys they develop who fit into the long term "core" of the team - a starting position player, a SP, or their closer. That's 15 guys (including a starting DH) that you could look to sign to early, long term extensions.

If/when they get to a healthy situation, the Cardinals should probably have six, seven, eight guys signed to early, long term extensions on the roster.

[ecleme22]

Abdicating responsibility to win this season for HOPES of better chances in the future is stupid. This year might be that lightening in the bottle and every “perfect” year in the future could be disappointments. Is he here to win or write the script of some narrative in his head? No one saying trade away every viable prospect for a vet but making one move that could help push this team in to the playoffs shouldn’t be so easily dismissed the first of MAY. There are no guarantees with any of this. If 2026 is the Cards season then play to WIN

You've nailed it with this unique concept that a team should try to "WIN." .

I'm sure Bloom would love to have your insight.

PS - would you rather win more games this year and reduce the chance to win the World Series in future years? Not I. It's all about the ring. Bloom's plan is designed for that. Just a guess, but I think you're heavily in debt.

Here is the unspoken problem with the thought process sacrifice now to win in 3-4 years. When that window you are all waiting on opens, Winn, Burleson, Walker, Gorman, Liberatore, and Herrera will be entering free agency territory. Do you think BDW is signing them to big deals? Nope. He brought Bloom in to run the Rays model. Once a guy nears free agency, trade him. Any potential window with this group is 1 to 2 years. And then you better hope Bloom nails those trades.

Yes they are wanting to adopt the rays model of being successful at drafting and developing good talent youre wrong about them going to a small market team. They are really just going back to what made the cardinals successful in the past being able to develop good young cost controlled players and eventually supplementing them with veterans. The cardinals recent problems have been they have been unable to develop good cost controlled players so instead of being able to spend on one good player they have had to disperse the money around to multiple mediocre and supplemental players who they then have to elevate to key roles instead of being the supplemental players they are. Gray wasnt an ace but because they could not develop any internal aces they had to elevate him to ace instead of a 2 or 3 starter which he is. Contreras great supplemental player but because the caridnals couldnt develop a decent middle of the order bat they had to elevate him into middle of the order bat instead of 5th or 6th

You are avoiding my full statements. You mention "cost controlled " players. Im talking about when those players hit free agency. BDW will not pay them. He may retain one, two max. It will be next guy up from Memphis to replace the rest. So the window for the group i mentioned will be extremely small.

This model makes financial sense for an owner who focuses primarily on profit. But how many rings has Tampa won using it?

They will sign them to early extensions and the rays would probably have rings if they had the payroll the cardinals can have doneand will again. There’s nothing in Dewitt’s past that’s says they are going to operate as a small market team going forward and they and bloom have said the exact opposite people saying they are it’s their opinion based on zero evidence

A decrease in attendance and a messed up TV situation will be reasons BDW gives to not sign guys. There is evidence that DeWitt will not spend. Was Pujols signed in 2011? Outside of Matt Holliday, what top tier FA has DeWitt chased? Sure, he will try to lock a guy in early. Because he is gambling on a lower salary over the long haul. But he will limit it to 1 or 2 guys.

Pujols was signed to a 7 yr./$100 million extension before he ever got to FA. That was what kept him in St. Louis for 11 years.

The first place the Cardinals need to start spending money again is in locking up guys like Wetherholt, Winn, Herrera, Burleson, Walker, etc.

The Cardinals should have the flexibility to do a lot more of that than the Rays have ever had. And the Cardinals need to pursue that option not just for one or two guys, but for any guys they develop who fit into the long term "core" of the team - a starting position player, a SP, or their closer. That's 15 guys (including a starting DH) that you could look to sign to early, long term extensions.

If/when they get to a healthy situation, the Cardinals should probably have six, seven, eight guys signed to early, long term extensions on the roster.

Historically, what team has had eight of these type of extensions at one time?

[mattmitchl44]

Abdicating responsibility to win this season for HOPES of better chances in the future is stupid. This year might be that lightening in the bottle and every “perfect” year in the future could be disappointments. Is he here to win or write the script of some narrative in his head? No one saying trade away every viable prospect for a vet but making one move that could help push this team in to the playoffs shouldn’t be so easily dismissed the first of MAY. There are no guarantees with any of this. If 2026 is the Cards season then play to WIN

You've nailed it with this unique concept that a team should try to "WIN." .

I'm sure Bloom would love to have your insight.

PS - would you rather win more games this year and reduce the chance to win the World Series in future years? Not I. It's all about the ring. Bloom's plan is designed for that. Just a guess, but I think you're heavily in debt.

Here is the unspoken problem with the thought process sacrifice now to win in 3-4 years. When that window you are all waiting on opens, Winn, Burleson, Walker, Gorman, Liberatore, and Herrera will be entering free agency territory. Do you think BDW is signing them to big deals? Nope. He brought Bloom in to run the Rays model. Once a guy nears free agency, trade him. Any potential window with this group is 1 to 2 years. And then you better hope Bloom nails those trades.

Yes they are wanting to adopt the rays model of being successful at drafting and developing good talent youre wrong about them going to a small market team. They are really just going back to what made the cardinals successful in the past being able to develop good young cost controlled players and eventually supplementing them with veterans. The cardinals recent problems have been they have been unable to develop good cost controlled players so instead of being able to spend on one good player they have had to disperse the money around to multiple mediocre and supplemental players who they then have to elevate to key roles instead of being the supplemental players they are. Gray wasnt an ace but because they could not develop any internal aces they had to elevate him to ace instead of a 2 or 3 starter which he is. Contreras great supplemental player but because the caridnals couldnt develop a decent middle of the order bat they had to elevate him into middle of the order bat instead of 5th or 6th

You are avoiding my full statements. You mention "cost controlled " players. Im talking about when those players hit free agency. BDW will not pay them. He may retain one, two max. It will be next guy up from Memphis to replace the rest. So the window for the group i mentioned will be extremely small.

This model makes financial sense for an owner who focuses primarily on profit. But how many rings has Tampa won using it?

They will sign them to early extensions and the rays would probably have rings if they had the payroll the cardinals can have doneand will again. There’s nothing in Dewitt’s past that’s says they are going to operate as a small market team going forward and they and bloom have said the exact opposite people saying they are it’s their opinion based on zero evidence

A decrease in attendance and a messed up TV situation will be reasons BDW gives to not sign guys. There is evidence that DeWitt will not spend. Was Pujols signed in 2011? Outside of Matt Holliday, what top tier FA has DeWitt chased? Sure, he will try to lock a guy in early. Because he is gambling on a lower salary over the long haul. But he will limit it to 1 or 2 guys.

Pujols was signed to a 7 yr./$100 million extension before he ever got to FA. That was what kept him in St. Louis for 11 years.

The first place the Cardinals need to start spending money again is in locking up guys like Wetherholt, Winn, Herrera, Burleson, Walker, etc.

The Cardinals should have the flexibility to do a lot more of that than the Rays have ever had. And the Cardinals need to pursue that option not just for one or two guys, but for any guys they develop who fit into the long term "core" of the team - a starting position player, a SP, or their closer. That's 15 guys (including a starting DH) that you could look to sign to early, long term extensions.

If/when they get to a healthy situation, the Cardinals should probably have six, seven, eight guys signed to early, long term extensions on the roster.

Historically, what team has had eight of these type of extensions at one time?

Maybe none, as of yet. The Braves has probably come close to that (Acuna, Albies, Harris, Strider, Riley, etc.). But that is the direction more mid-market teams - teams with payrolls in the $150, $160, $170, etc. million range - should be going. It's the only way, long term, that they can compete consistently with the Dodgers, Yankees, Phillies, Mets, etc.

The Cardinals "model" going forward should be the Braves as much, or moreso, than the Rays. If they can be 80%-90% of the Braves, that would be success.

[ecleme22]

Abdicating responsibility to win this season for HOPES of better chances in the future is stupid. This year might be that lightening in the bottle and every “perfect” year in the future could be disappointments. Is he here to win or write the script of some narrative in his head? No one saying trade away every viable prospect for a vet but making one move that could help push this team in to the playoffs shouldn’t be so easily dismissed the first of MAY. There are no guarantees with any of this. If 2026 is the Cards season then play to WIN

You've nailed it with this unique concept that a team should try to "WIN." .

I'm sure Bloom would love to have your insight.

PS - would you rather win more games this year and reduce the chance to win the World Series in future years? Not I. It's all about the ring. Bloom's plan is designed for that. Just a guess, but I think you're heavily in debt.

Here is the unspoken problem with the thought process sacrifice now to win in 3-4 years. When that window you are all waiting on opens, Winn, Burleson, Walker, Gorman, Liberatore, and Herrera will be entering free agency territory. Do you think BDW is signing them to big deals? Nope. He brought Bloom in to run the Rays model. Once a guy nears free agency, trade him. Any potential window with this group is 1 to 2 years. And then you better hope Bloom nails those trades.

Yes they are wanting to adopt the rays model of being successful at drafting and developing good talent youre wrong about them going to a small market team. They are really just going back to what made the cardinals successful in the past being able to develop good young cost controlled players and eventually supplementing them with veterans. The cardinals recent problems have been they have been unable to develop good cost controlled players so instead of being able to spend on one good player they have had to disperse the money around to multiple mediocre and supplemental players who they then have to elevate to key roles instead of being the supplemental players they are. Gray wasnt an ace but because they could not develop any internal aces they had to elevate him to ace instead of a 2 or 3 starter which he is. Contreras great supplemental player but because the caridnals couldnt develop a decent middle of the order bat they had to elevate him into middle of the order bat instead of 5th or 6th

You are avoiding my full statements. You mention "cost controlled " players. Im talking about when those players hit free agency. BDW will not pay them. He may retain one, two max. It will be next guy up from Memphis to replace the rest. So the window for the group i mentioned will be extremely small.

This model makes financial sense for an owner who focuses primarily on profit. But how many rings has Tampa won using it?

They will sign them to early extensions and the rays would probably have rings if they had the payroll the cardinals can have doneand will again. There’s nothing in Dewitt’s past that’s says they are going to operate as a small market team going forward and they and bloom have said the exact opposite people saying they are it’s their opinion based on zero evidence

A decrease in attendance and a messed up TV situation will be reasons BDW gives to not sign guys. There is evidence that DeWitt will not spend. Was Pujols signed in 2011? Outside of Matt Holliday, what top tier FA has DeWitt chased? Sure, he will try to lock a guy in early. Because he is gambling on a lower salary over the long haul. But he will limit it to 1 or 2 guys.

Pujols was signed to a 7 yr./$100 million extension before he ever got to FA. That was what kept him in St. Louis for 11 years.

The first place the Cardinals need to start spending money again is in locking up guys like Wetherholt, Winn, Herrera, Burleson, Walker, etc.

The Cardinals should have the flexibility to do a lot more of that than the Rays have ever had. And the Cardinals need to pursue that option not just for one or two guys, but for any guys they develop who fit into the long term "core" of the team - a starting position player, a SP, or their closer. That's 15 guys (including a starting DH) that you could look to sign to early, long term extensions.

If/when they get to a healthy situation, the Cardinals should probably have six, seven, eight guys signed to early, long term extensions on the roster.

Historically, what team has had eight of these type of extensions at one time?

Maybe none, as of yet. The Braves has probably come close to that (Acuna, Albies, Harris, Strider, Riley, etc.). But that is the direction more mid-market teams - teams with payrolls in the $150, $160, $170, etc. million range - should be going. It's the only way, long term, that they can compete consistently with the Dodgers, Yankees, Phillies, Mets, etc.

The Cardinals "model" going forward should be the Braves as much, or moreso, than the Rays. If they can be 80%-90% of the Braves, that would be success.

I think you are partially right.
1. Sign X number of players long term. Let's say 3-4.
2. The decent/good players you don't sign long term, look to possibly flip with a year or two of control left (and no, not for guys like Libby who take 5 years to be good. Like players who can produce on the MLB level relatively soon.)
3. Keep on the gas when it comes to drafting and signing young, talented players.
4. Look for opportunities to sign low risk / high reward players like Dustin May.


I don't think survival lies in signing 8 young players to LT contracts. It lies in being able to identify the best 3-4, sign them, and let the others play out their team-controlled contract. Maybe flip them or let them walk. All the while, making sure the pipeline of young talent is strong and can replace the ones that leave.

[mattmitchl44]

Abdicating responsibility to win this season for HOPES of better chances in the future is stupid. This year might be that lightening in the bottle and every “perfect” year in the future could be disappointments. Is he here to win or write the script of some narrative in his head? No one saying trade away every viable prospect for a vet but making one move that could help push this team in to the playoffs shouldn’t be so easily dismissed the first of MAY. There are no guarantees with any of this. If 2026 is the Cards season then play to WIN

You've nailed it with this unique concept that a team should try to "WIN." .

I'm sure Bloom would love to have your insight.

PS - would you rather win more games this year and reduce the chance to win the World Series in future years? Not I. It's all about the ring. Bloom's plan is designed for that. Just a guess, but I think you're heavily in debt.

Here is the unspoken problem with the thought process sacrifice now to win in 3-4 years. When that window you are all waiting on opens, Winn, Burleson, Walker, Gorman, Liberatore, and Herrera will be entering free agency territory. Do you think BDW is signing them to big deals? Nope. He brought Bloom in to run the Rays model. Once a guy nears free agency, trade him. Any potential window with this group is 1 to 2 years. And then you better hope Bloom nails those trades.

Yes they are wanting to adopt the rays model of being successful at drafting and developing good talent youre wrong about them going to a small market team. They are really just going back to what made the cardinals successful in the past being able to develop good young cost controlled players and eventually supplementing them with veterans. The cardinals recent problems have been they have been unable to develop good cost controlled players so instead of being able to spend on one good player they have had to disperse the money around to multiple mediocre and supplemental players who they then have to elevate to key roles instead of being the supplemental players they are. Gray wasnt an ace but because they could not develop any internal aces they had to elevate him to ace instead of a 2 or 3 starter which he is. Contreras great supplemental player but because the caridnals couldnt develop a decent middle of the order bat they had to elevate him into middle of the order bat instead of 5th or 6th

You are avoiding my full statements. You mention "cost controlled " players. Im talking about when those players hit free agency. BDW will not pay them. He may retain one, two max. It will be next guy up from Memphis to replace the rest. So the window for the group i mentioned will be extremely small.

This model makes financial sense for an owner who focuses primarily on profit. But how many rings has Tampa won using it?

They will sign them to early extensions and the rays would probably have rings if they had the payroll the cardinals can have doneand will again. There’s nothing in Dewitt’s past that’s says they are going to operate as a small market team going forward and they and bloom have said the exact opposite people saying they are it’s their opinion based on zero evidence

A decrease in attendance and a messed up TV situation will be reasons BDW gives to not sign guys. There is evidence that DeWitt will not spend. Was Pujols signed in 2011? Outside of Matt Holliday, what top tier FA has DeWitt chased? Sure, he will try to lock a guy in early. Because he is gambling on a lower salary over the long haul. But he will limit it to 1 or 2 guys.

Pujols was signed to a 7 yr./$100 million extension before he ever got to FA. That was what kept him in St. Louis for 11 years.

The first place the Cardinals need to start spending money again is in locking up guys like Wetherholt, Winn, Herrera, Burleson, Walker, etc.

The Cardinals should have the flexibility to do a lot more of that than the Rays have ever had. And the Cardinals need to pursue that option not just for one or two guys, but for any guys they develop who fit into the long term "core" of the team - a starting position player, a SP, or their closer. That's 15 guys (including a starting DH) that you could look to sign to early, long term extensions.

If/when they get to a healthy situation, the Cardinals should probably have six, seven, eight guys signed to early, long term extensions on the roster.

Historically, what team has had eight of these type of extensions at one time?

Maybe none, as of yet. The Braves has probably come close to that (Acuna, Albies, Harris, Strider, Riley, etc.). But that is the direction more mid-market teams - teams with payrolls in the $150, $160, $170, etc. million range - should be going. It's the only way, long term, that they can compete consistently with the Dodgers, Yankees, Phillies, Mets, etc.

The Cardinals "model" going forward should be the Braves as much, or moreso, than the Rays. If they can be 80%-90% of the Braves, that would be success.

I think you are partially right.
1. Sign X number of players long term. Let's say 3-4.
2. The decent/good players you don't sign long term, look to possibly flip with a year or two of control left (and no, not for guys like Libby who take 5 years to be good. Like players who can produce on the MLB level relatively soon.)
3. Keep on the gas when it comes to drafting and signing young, talented players.
4. Look for opportunities to sign low risk / high reward players like Dustin May.


I don't think survival lies in signing 8 young players to LT contracts. It lies in being able to identify the best 3-4, sign them, and let the others play out their team-controlled contract. Maybe flip them or let them walk. All the while, making sure the pipeline of young talent is strong and can replace the ones that leave.

You can sign six, seven, eight young players to long term deals and still flip them later, just like with guys who are going year-to-year.

[ramfandan]

Many seem to think that having upper echelon payroll on the Cardinals will be the ticket to 'rings'.

We all know the Dodgers .. 3 rings in a row
How have the next 4 teams in the Top 5 spending list fared ?
Mets, Yankees, Toronto , Phillies
You have to go back 17 years since one of the next four payroll teams won a 'ring' .. 2009 Yankees , 2008 Phillies

If you think the Cardinals spending $$$ to get to that level will bring 'rings' (plural-- even one ) you are likely to be very disappointed. The odds are slim .
Now true spending more $$$ gives you more likelihood that you will have a winning team and thus make the playoffs but that's another matter.