Cardinals get an A-: but

[11WSChamps]

So the few of us who said we don't have pitching depth at this time were correct?

No reasonable person would have thought otherwise..

Hard to argue with that. I doubt anybody thought we have a championship group of arms at our disposal. The rotation seems serviceable to be competitive. But, we need serious long term help. May was a bandaid. The chance to keep him beyond one year is miniscule. If he pitches well, he opts out; if not, we ship him out. Libby is a solid 3. Leahy and Pallante are #5's; performing relatively well I might add. McGreevy may also serve as 3 or 4. But, this is wired together and injuries would blow this whole thing up.

Really like McGreevy.

Wise beyond his years and knows he has to be smart with his array of pitches.

Easy to pull for him.

Didn't think he'd be this good this fast.

Glad to be wrong about him.

[hugeCardfan]

Nah. O'Brien has 5 years of control left. We don't have a reason in the world to trade him.

If I get a decent offer for him, he's gone. He's 31 years old. He has a massive history of injuries. He pitched 48 MLB innings for us last year. His previous high was 8. Relievers are notoriously unstable. Maybe we'll get a better offer due to the control.

Yeah, and maybe we end up with a Stanek like pitcher trying to close for us. No thanks. O'Brien only has one ML season behind him. He's finally learned how to shut down ML hitting and has a couple killer pitches in his repetoir. If we come up with a better closer then I'd settle for O'Brien being a setup guy; even shutting down a rally in the 7th. Sorry, when you have a guy who works as well as O'Brien in that role you don't send him away until your bullpen is brimming with replacements. That's what the Brewers have done and it works. We aren't there yet.

Ok, I'm going to grant the premise that they need to worry about how good their BP is this year and next, which for the record I disagree with because it's a rebuild.

But granting that, was the BP "brimming with replacements" when they traded away Helsley and Matz and Maton last year? No, it wasn't, and yet other guys stepped up to fill the void... Svanson last year, Romero/O'Brien both years, Graceffo/Soriano this year.

Because relief pitchers and bench players are the most fungible part of a roster, and volatile af, and guys often come out of nowhere to perform pretty darn well. And there are always reclamation projects like Soriano that a good F.O. can find.

So if they trade away O'Brien there's a decent chance it'll happen again. No brimming over necessary.

Huh? What do Helsley, Matz and Maton have to do with O'Brien? Helsley was half way out the door unless we wanted to to buy out FA years. Matz was running around on fumes with an expiring ML contract and Matton was a loaner. O'Brien is a closer with 5 years of control pitching at minimum wage. He has a couple fistfuls of saves already and likely gonna get a whole bunch more.

Just to be clear, our bullpen is a bit of a mess this year...so nooooo, stepping up is not the way I would describe this year's pen. We have enough holes in the pen to sink the Titanic. Oli has done a masterful job to wire this group together to keep us in more games than I thought possible. The only guys consistent are Romero and O'Brien. Romero is now a loaner; so trade away, unless we are in it to win it.

I have no problem with the logic that "it's a rebuild". But, we rebuild with guys who have time and are getting it done. O'Brien, step forward!

So, NOOOO. Don't trade.

You're ignoring the pretty relevant facts that 1) he's 31 years old, 2) he's injury-prone and 3) relievers in general are very volatile.

Given that this team doesn't actually need a good BP until 2028, it's exponentially smarter to get whatever you can for him now than it is to hold onto him and hope he's still a good reliever 2 years from now when he's 33 years old.

31 means nothing for the next 5 years. He's in his peak years. He's not that injury prone. He pitched 67 innings last year. Relievers are generally volatile and yet many have had great careers.

Horse chit we don't need a good BP until 2028. We always need a good pen. Moreover there is nothing magical about 2028. We are competitive this year. We will be competitive next year. We don't know when this team will be championship caliber, but, we know it won't happen until we have a shutdown pen. No to trading O'Brien. We need more O'Briens.

[hugeCardfan]

So the few of us who said we don't have pitching depth at this time were correct?

No reasonable person would have thought otherwise..

Hard to argue with that. I doubt anybody thought we have a championship group of arms at our disposal. The rotation seems serviceable to be competitive. But, we need serious long term help. May was a bandaid. The chance to keep him beyond one year is miniscule. If he pitches well, he opts out; if not, we ship him out. Libby is a solid 3. Leahy and Pallante are #5's; performing relatively well I might add. McGreevy may also serve as 3 or 4. But, this is wired together and injuries would blow this whole thing up.

Really like McGreevy.

Wise beyond his years and knows he has to be smart with his array of pitches.

Easy to pull for him.

Didn't think he'd be this good this fast.

Glad to be wrong about him.

Me too. I think McGreevy and Libby are two mainstays to build around. We still need a #1 and/or #2.

[3dender]

Nah. O'Brien has 5 years of control left. We don't have a reason in the world to trade him.

If I get a decent offer for him, he's gone. He's 31 years old. He has a massive history of injuries. He pitched 48 MLB innings for us last year. His previous high was 8. Relievers are notoriously unstable. Maybe we'll get a better offer due to the control.

Yeah, and maybe we end up with a Stanek like pitcher trying to close for us. No thanks. O'Brien only has one ML season behind him. He's finally learned how to shut down ML hitting and has a couple killer pitches in his repetoir. If we come up with a better closer then I'd settle for O'Brien being a setup guy; even shutting down a rally in the 7th. Sorry, when you have a guy who works as well as O'Brien in that role you don't send him away until your bullpen is brimming with replacements. That's what the Brewers have done and it works. We aren't there yet.

Ok, I'm going to grant the premise that they need to worry about how good their BP is this year and next, which for the record I disagree with because it's a rebuild.

But granting that, was the BP "brimming with replacements" when they traded away Helsley and Matz and Maton last year? No, it wasn't, and yet other guys stepped up to fill the void... Svanson last year, Romero/O'Brien both years, Graceffo/Soriano this year.

Because relief pitchers and bench players are the most fungible part of a roster, and volatile af, and guys often come out of nowhere to perform pretty darn well. And there are always reclamation projects like Soriano that a good F.O. can find.

So if they trade away O'Brien there's a decent chance it'll happen again. No brimming over necessary.

Huh? What do Helsley, Matz and Maton have to do with O'Brien? Helsley was half way out the door unless we wanted to to buy out FA years. Matz was running around on fumes with an expiring ML contract and Matton was a loaner. O'Brien is a closer with 5 years of control pitching at minimum wage. He has a couple fistfuls of saves already and likely gonna get a whole bunch more.

Just to be clear, our bullpen is a bit of a mess this year...so nooooo, stepping up is not the way I would describe this year's pen. We have enough holes in the pen to sink the Titanic. Oli has done a masterful job to wire this group together to keep us in more games than I thought possible. The only guys consistent are Romero and O'Brien. Romero is now a loaner; so trade away, unless we are in it to win it.

I have no problem with the logic that "it's a rebuild". But, we rebuild with guys who have time and are getting it done. O'Brien, step forward!

So, NOOOO. Don't trade.

You're ignoring the pretty relevant facts that 1) he's 31 years old, 2) he's injury-prone and 3) relievers in general are very volatile.

Given that this team doesn't actually need a good BP until 2028, it's exponentially smarter to get whatever you can for him now than it is to hold onto him and hope he's still a good reliever 2 years from now when he's 33 years old.

31 means nothing for the next 5 years. He's in his peak years. He's not that injury prone. He pitched 67 innings last year. Relievers are generally volatile and yet many have had great careers.

Horse chit we don't need a good BP until 2028. We always need a good pen. Moreover there is nothing magical about 2028. We are competitive this year. We will be competitive next year. We don't know when this team will be championship caliber, but, we know it won't happen until we have a shutdown pen. No to trading O'Brien. We need more O'Briens.

31 means that he's going to be 32 next year, and 33 the year after, i.e. further away from his peak.

The last 4 years he has appeared in 61 games, 22 games, 51 games and 34 games. If you don't consider that injury prone we just have different definitions.

[hugeCardfan]

Nah. O'Brien has 5 years of control left. We don't have a reason in the world to trade him.

If I get a decent offer for him, he's gone. He's 31 years old. He has a massive history of injuries. He pitched 48 MLB innings for us last year. His previous high was 8. Relievers are notoriously unstable. Maybe we'll get a better offer due to the control.

Yeah, and maybe we end up with a Stanek like pitcher trying to close for us. No thanks. O'Brien only has one ML season behind him. He's finally learned how to shut down ML hitting and has a couple killer pitches in his repetoir. If we come up with a better closer then I'd settle for O'Brien being a setup guy; even shutting down a rally in the 7th. Sorry, when you have a guy who works as well as O'Brien in that role you don't send him away until your bullpen is brimming with replacements. That's what the Brewers have done and it works. We aren't there yet.

Ok, I'm going to grant the premise that they need to worry about how good their BP is this year and next, which for the record I disagree with because it's a rebuild.

But granting that, was the BP "brimming with replacements" when they traded away Helsley and Matz and Maton last year? No, it wasn't, and yet other guys stepped up to fill the void... Svanson last year, Romero/O'Brien both years, Graceffo/Soriano this year.

Because relief pitchers and bench players are the most fungible part of a roster, and volatile af, and guys often come out of nowhere to perform pretty darn well. And there are always reclamation projects like Soriano that a good F.O. can find.

So if they trade away O'Brien there's a decent chance it'll happen again. No brimming over necessary.

Huh? What do Helsley, Matz and Maton have to do with O'Brien? Helsley was half way out the door unless we wanted to to buy out FA years. Matz was running around on fumes with an expiring ML contract and Matton was a loaner. O'Brien is a closer with 5 years of control pitching at minimum wage. He has a couple fistfuls of saves already and likely gonna get a whole bunch more.

Just to be clear, our bullpen is a bit of a mess this year...so nooooo, stepping up is not the way I would describe this year's pen. We have enough holes in the pen to sink the Titanic. Oli has done a masterful job to wire this group together to keep us in more games than I thought possible. The only guys consistent are Romero and O'Brien. Romero is now a loaner; so trade away, unless we are in it to win it.

I have no problem with the logic that "it's a rebuild". But, we rebuild with guys who have time and are getting it done. O'Brien, step forward!

So, NOOOO. Don't trade.

You're ignoring the pretty relevant facts that 1) he's 31 years old, 2) he's injury-prone and 3) relievers in general are very volatile.

Given that this team doesn't actually need a good BP until 2028, it's exponentially smarter to get whatever you can for him now than it is to hold onto him and hope he's still a good reliever 2 years from now when he's 33 years old.

31 means nothing for the next 5 years. He's in his peak years. He's not that injury prone. He pitched 67 innings last year. Relievers are generally volatile and yet many have had great careers.

Horse chit we don't need a good BP until 2028. We always need a good pen. Moreover there is nothing magical about 2028. We are competitive this year. We will be competitive next year. We don't know when this team will be championship caliber, but, we know it won't happen until we have a shutdown pen. No to trading O'Brien. We need more O'Briens.

31 means that he's going to be 32 next year, and 33 the year after, i.e. further away from his peak.

So that's how that works....

The last 4 years he has appeared in 61 games, 22 games, 51 games and 34 games. If you don't consider that injury prone we just have different definitions.

And thus far 17. Average 40 games of quality relief and I'd take that. Do better than that and we have a real stud closing out games. He has gotten better as he's gotten older. Why be in a hurry to trade someone who helps us win? Makes no sense to me.

[3dender]

Nah. O'Brien has 5 years of control left. We don't have a reason in the world to trade him.

If I get a decent offer for him, he's gone. He's 31 years old. He has a massive history of injuries. He pitched 48 MLB innings for us last year. His previous high was 8. Relievers are notoriously unstable. Maybe we'll get a better offer due to the control.

Yeah, and maybe we end up with a Stanek like pitcher trying to close for us. No thanks. O'Brien only has one ML season behind him. He's finally learned how to shut down ML hitting and has a couple killer pitches in his repetoir. If we come up with a better closer then I'd settle for O'Brien being a setup guy; even shutting down a rally in the 7th. Sorry, when you have a guy who works as well as O'Brien in that role you don't send him away until your bullpen is brimming with replacements. That's what the Brewers have done and it works. We aren't there yet.

Ok, I'm going to grant the premise that they need to worry about how good their BP is this year and next, which for the record I disagree with because it's a rebuild.

But granting that, was the BP "brimming with replacements" when they traded away Helsley and Matz and Maton last year? No, it wasn't, and yet other guys stepped up to fill the void... Svanson last year, Romero/O'Brien both years, Graceffo/Soriano this year.

Because relief pitchers and bench players are the most fungible part of a roster, and volatile af, and guys often come out of nowhere to perform pretty darn well. And there are always reclamation projects like Soriano that a good F.O. can find.

So if they trade away O'Brien there's a decent chance it'll happen again. No brimming over necessary.

Huh? What do Helsley, Matz and Maton have to do with O'Brien? Helsley was half way out the door unless we wanted to to buy out FA years. Matz was running around on fumes with an expiring ML contract and Matton was a loaner. O'Brien is a closer with 5 years of control pitching at minimum wage. He has a couple fistfuls of saves already and likely gonna get a whole bunch more.

Just to be clear, our bullpen is a bit of a mess this year...so nooooo, stepping up is not the way I would describe this year's pen. We have enough holes in the pen to sink the Titanic. Oli has done a masterful job to wire this group together to keep us in more games than I thought possible. The only guys consistent are Romero and O'Brien. Romero is now a loaner; so trade away, unless we are in it to win it.

I have no problem with the logic that "it's a rebuild". But, we rebuild with guys who have time and are getting it done. O'Brien, step forward!

So, NOOOO. Don't trade.

You're ignoring the pretty relevant facts that 1) he's 31 years old, 2) he's injury-prone and 3) relievers in general are very volatile.

Given that this team doesn't actually need a good BP until 2028, it's exponentially smarter to get whatever you can for him now than it is to hold onto him and hope he's still a good reliever 2 years from now when he's 33 years old.

31 means nothing for the next 5 years. He's in his peak years. He's not that injury prone. He pitched 67 innings last year. Relievers are generally volatile and yet many have had great careers.

Horse chit we don't need a good BP until 2028. We always need a good pen. Moreover there is nothing magical about 2028. We are competitive this year. We will be competitive next year. We don't know when this team will be championship caliber, but, we know it won't happen until we have a shutdown pen. No to trading O'Brien. We need more O'Briens.

31 means that he's going to be 32 next year, and 33 the year after, i.e. further away from his peak.

So that's how that works....

The last 4 years he has appeared in 61 games, 22 games, 51 games and 34 games. If you don't consider that injury prone we just have different definitions.

Why be in a hurry to trade someone who helps us win? Makes no sense to me.

Because when you trade players that help teams win, you can get good young players in return? Players that can potentially help you more than a 33-34yo reliever in a few years?

[hugeCardfan]

Nah. O'Brien has 5 years of control left. We don't have a reason in the world to trade him.

If I get a decent offer for him, he's gone. He's 31 years old. He has a massive history of injuries. He pitched 48 MLB innings for us last year. His previous high was 8. Relievers are notoriously unstable. Maybe we'll get a better offer due to the control.

Yeah, and maybe we end up with a Stanek like pitcher trying to close for us. No thanks. O'Brien only has one ML season behind him. He's finally learned how to shut down ML hitting and has a couple killer pitches in his repetoir. If we come up with a better closer then I'd settle for O'Brien being a setup guy; even shutting down a rally in the 7th. Sorry, when you have a guy who works as well as O'Brien in that role you don't send him away until your bullpen is brimming with replacements. That's what the Brewers have done and it works. We aren't there yet.

Ok, I'm going to grant the premise that they need to worry about how good their BP is this year and next, which for the record I disagree with because it's a rebuild.

But granting that, was the BP "brimming with replacements" when they traded away Helsley and Matz and Maton last year? No, it wasn't, and yet other guys stepped up to fill the void... Svanson last year, Romero/O'Brien both years, Graceffo/Soriano this year.

Because relief pitchers and bench players are the most fungible part of a roster, and volatile af, and guys often come out of nowhere to perform pretty darn well. And there are always reclamation projects like Soriano that a good F.O. can find.

So if they trade away O'Brien there's a decent chance it'll happen again. No brimming over necessary.

Huh? What do Helsley, Matz and Maton have to do with O'Brien? Helsley was half way out the door unless we wanted to to buy out FA years. Matz was running around on fumes with an expiring ML contract and Matton was a loaner. O'Brien is a closer with 5 years of control pitching at minimum wage. He has a couple fistfuls of saves already and likely gonna get a whole bunch more.

Just to be clear, our bullpen is a bit of a mess this year...so nooooo, stepping up is not the way I would describe this year's pen. We have enough holes in the pen to sink the Titanic. Oli has done a masterful job to wire this group together to keep us in more games than I thought possible. The only guys consistent are Romero and O'Brien. Romero is now a loaner; so trade away, unless we are in it to win it.

I have no problem with the logic that "it's a rebuild". But, we rebuild with guys who have time and are getting it done. O'Brien, step forward!

So, NOOOO. Don't trade.

You're ignoring the pretty relevant facts that 1) he's 31 years old, 2) he's injury-prone and 3) relievers in general are very volatile.

Given that this team doesn't actually need a good BP until 2028, it's exponentially smarter to get whatever you can for him now than it is to hold onto him and hope he's still a good reliever 2 years from now when he's 33 years old.

31 means nothing for the next 5 years. He's in his peak years. He's not that injury prone. He pitched 67 innings last year. Relievers are generally volatile and yet many have had great careers.

Horse chit we don't need a good BP until 2028. We always need a good pen. Moreover there is nothing magical about 2028. We are competitive this year. We will be competitive next year. We don't know when this team will be championship caliber, but, we know it won't happen until we have a shutdown pen. No to trading O'Brien. We need more O'Briens.

31 means that he's going to be 32 next year, and 33 the year after, i.e. further away from his peak.

So that's how that works....

The last 4 years he has appeared in 61 games, 22 games, 51 games and 34 games. If you don't consider that injury prone we just have different definitions.

Why be in a hurry to trade someone who helps us win? Makes no sense to me.

Because when you trade players that help teams win, you can get good young players in return? Players that can potentially help you more than a 33-34yo reliever in a few years?

You seem hung up on an age 2 years from now. Consider this:

Aroldis Chapman (Age 38): As of April 2026, the Boston Red Sox closer is still going strong, having saved 32 games in his age-37 season (2025) and continuing to dominate in 2026.

Kenley Jansen (Age 38): Now with the Detroit Tigers, the veteran closer is approaching 500 career saves and continues to hold a key role in the 2026 season.

Raisel Iglesias (Age 36): Serving as the established closer for the Atlanta Braves in 2026, he continues to be one of the top relievers in the league.

Carlos Estévez (Age 33): After leading the AL in saves in 2025, he continues to be a high-leverage option for the Kansas City Royals.

Kyle Finnegan (Age 33): A reliable closer for the Detroit Tigers with a strong track record, he is highly ranked for the 2026 season.

Kirby Yates (Age 39): Listed as one of the oldest active players in 2026, he remains a key reliever for the Los Angeles Angels.

Pete Fairbanks (Age 32-33): A highly consistent closer for the Miami Marlins (previously Rays), he is considered among the top relief options.

[Carp4Cy]

Nah. O'Brien has 5 years of control left. We don't have a reason in the world to trade him.

If I get a decent offer for him, he's gone. He's 31 years old. He has a massive history of injuries. He pitched 48 MLB innings for us last year. His previous high was 8. Relievers are notoriously unstable. Maybe we'll get a better offer due to the control.

Yup... I think how people feel about keeping/trading ROB is directly related to how soon they expect this team to be in true contention. If you accept it's not gonna be until 2028 at the earliest, then keeping him around if he's still performing at an elite level this July would be asinine.

Depends on what we get in return.

Trading him for an injured lotto ticket so we can pretend we got more than zero value because we are pretending we Know his own value will immediately expire after 2026 would be asinine.

Some players don’t hit their stride until later and stay good for a long time. We don’t KNOW he is going to tank. So we Have to get equal value back or you just don’t trade. There is no urgency unless we pretend there is.

I mean they got Yhoiker Fajardo as a throw-in lottery ticket for Willson Contreras, one of three players in the package. He's now absolutely dominating High-A at age 19, has a 9 (!!) K/BB ratio, and may be pushing into the convo for top 10 Cards prospect by the end of the year.

Yes I absolutely would trade O'Brien for just one guy who has a decent chance of becoming another Yhoiker Fajardo. All smart GMs would.

1. That’s unlikely. Eight times out of 10 the best you’re gonna get is another Thomas Sagesse.
2. Even if we could get someone who succeeds like that, trading for another 18-year-old who will be in A ball in 2027 does not support bloom’s goal of Fielding a NLCS team in 2028. At some point sooner rather than later, we need to either go for it with the talent that we have that’s producing or start trading them for players who are much further along and ready to produce already.