Another pretty good start for Doyle

[Talkin' Baseball]

pitch count?

pulled at 75 after 1st batter/out in the 5th. If he can maintain the 75 on a consistent basis, that would be good thing....so far he's been pulled early depending on how much he's been torched in the 1st or 2nd inning.

Need the consistent long outings...or long for him in his early pro developement....75 pitches

Realistically duce, how close is he to St. Louis?

Could he be ready for a September call up or do you think 2027 is more likely?

How close? After one really good start? 2 years at the best...that's without one hiccup in a start, one hiccup with an injury, one hiccup with the grip of the baseball and he loses feeling and progress in his secondary pitches. We're not dealing with a "Switch" that needs to be flipped like in Hitting. This guy is so far behind with his secondary pitches it's going to take a minimum of 2 Perfect Scenario years to be a starter in the bigs. I want the guy in a Pitching Lab....PRONTO. Pitching in AA, is like him being 15yo, and the opponents are perennial All-Stars with 8 figure contracts....that's for him....it's neato experience, but it's not doing him much good.

2 years...maybe 3 or 4 if you want effective.

2 years if the pitching lab scenario is 1) utilized and 2) works

I can't guarantee any of that, so I'll go with 3-4 years (which includes this one)....

Now, if we're talking as a reliever...that's a different story.

Thx, good take

Guys here on 101.1 were talking last week like he'd be up here later this year.

There. is. No. way.

[rockondlouie]

pitch count?

pulled at 75 after 1st batter/out in the 5th. If he can maintain the 75 on a consistent basis, that would be good thing....so far he's been pulled early depending on how much he's been torched in the 1st or 2nd inning.

Need the consistent long outings...or long for him in his early pro developement....75 pitches

Realistically duce, how close is he to St. Louis?

Could he be ready for a September call up or do you think 2027 is more likely?

How close? After one really good start? 2 years at the best...that's without one hiccup in a start, one hiccup with an injury, one hiccup with the grip of the baseball and he loses feeling and progress in his secondary pitches. We're not dealing with a "Switch" that needs to be flipped like in Hitting. This guy is so far behind with his secondary pitches it's going to take a minimum of 2 Perfect Scenario years to be a starter in the bigs. I want the guy in a Pitching Lab....PRONTO. Pitching in AA, is like him being 15yo, and the opponents are perennial All-Stars with 8 figure contracts....that's for him....it's neato experience, but it's not doing him much good.

2 years...maybe 3 or 4 if you want effective.

2 years if the pitching lab scenario is 1) utilized and 2) works

I can't guarantee any of that, so I'll go with 3-4 years (which includes this one)....

Now, if we're talking as a reliever...that's a different story.

Thx, good take

Guys here on 101.1 were talking last week like he'd be up here later this year.

There. is. No. way.

Agreed, why I wanted duces take given he follows the kids better than anyone in here.

Sometimes I wonder how some of those guys on 101.1 ever got hired.

[Talkin' Baseball]

pitch count?

pulled at 75 after 1st batter/out in the 5th. If he can maintain the 75 on a consistent basis, that would be good thing....so far he's been pulled early depending on how much he's been torched in the 1st or 2nd inning.

Need the consistent long outings...or long for him in his early pro developement....75 pitches

Realistically duce, how close is he to St. Louis?

Could he be ready for a September call up or do you think 2027 is more likely?

How close? After one really good start? 2 years at the best...that's without one hiccup in a start, one hiccup with an injury, one hiccup with the grip of the baseball and he loses feeling and progress in his secondary pitches. We're not dealing with a "Switch" that needs to be flipped like in Hitting. This guy is so far behind with his secondary pitches it's going to take a minimum of 2 Perfect Scenario years to be a starter in the bigs. I want the guy in a Pitching Lab....PRONTO. Pitching in AA, is like him being 15yo, and the opponents are perennial All-Stars with 8 figure contracts....that's for him....it's neato experience, but it's not doing him much good.

2 years...maybe 3 or 4 if you want effective.

2 years if the pitching lab scenario is 1) utilized and 2) works

I can't guarantee any of that, so I'll go with 3-4 years (which includes this one)....

Now, if we're talking as a reliever...that's a different story.

Thx, good take

Guys here on 101.1 were talking last week like he'd be up here later this year.

There. is. No. way.

Agreed, why I wanted duces take given he follows the kids better than anyone in here.

Sometimes I wonder how some of those guys on 101.1 ever got hired.

No joke.

[An Old Friend]

pitch count?

pulled at 75 after 1st batter/out in the 5th. If he can maintain the 75 on a consistent basis, that would be good thing....so far he's been pulled early depending on how much he's been torched in the 1st or 2nd inning.

Need the consistent long outings...or long for him in his early pro developement....75 pitches

Realistically duce, how close is he to St. Louis?

Could he be ready for a September call up or do you think 2027 is more likely?

How close? After one really good start? 2 years at the best...that's without one hiccup in a start, one hiccup with an injury, one hiccup with the grip of the baseball and he loses feeling and progress in his secondary pitches. We're not dealing with a "Switch" that needs to be flipped like in Hitting. This guy is so far behind with his secondary pitches it's going to take a minimum of 2 Perfect Scenario years to be a starter in the bigs. I want the guy in a Pitching Lab....PRONTO. Pitching in AA, is like him being 15yo, and the opponents are perennial All-Stars with 8 figure contracts....that's for him....it's neato experience, but it's not doing him much good.

2 years...maybe 3 or 4 if you want effective.

2 years if the pitching lab scenario is 1) utilized and 2) works

I can't guarantee any of that, so I'll go with 3-4 years (which includes this one)....

Now, if we're talking as a reliever...that's a different story.

Thx, good take

Guys here on 101.1 were talking last week like he'd be up here later this year.

as a reliever, sure...later this year. But why would you do that to your #5 overall pick in his first season as a Pro?

Plus what I know about C. Bloom he isn't one to rush quality starting pitchers to MLB.

He wants them to be totally ready to start, fully prepared and be successfully as they can be once they're up here.

From what I see from a lot of media folks that cover the team… they’re dumb AF. They understand nothing about development and are hyper prone to hyperbole. They don’t react… rather, they overreact to everything.

I don’t mind them challenging him at AA. Personally I would’ve started him a level down but it’s important to understand that their development guys aren’t scouting results. How he performs this year isn’t all that important to achieving the end goal.

Idiot fans want him up pronto lest he be labeled a bust.

[craviduce]

pitch count?

pulled at 75 after 1st batter/out in the 5th. If he can maintain the 75 on a consistent basis, that would be good thing....so far he's been pulled early depending on how much he's been torched in the 1st or 2nd inning.

Need the consistent long outings...or long for him in his early pro developement....75 pitches

Realistically duce, how close is he to St. Louis?

Could he be ready for a September call up or do you think 2027 is more likely?

How close? After one really good start? 2 years at the best...that's without one hiccup in a start, one hiccup with an injury, one hiccup with the grip of the baseball and he loses feeling and progress in his secondary pitches. We're not dealing with a "Switch" that needs to be flipped like in Hitting. This guy is so far behind with his secondary pitches it's going to take a minimum of 2 Perfect Scenario years to be a starter in the bigs. I want the guy in a Pitching Lab....PRONTO. Pitching in AA, is like him being 15yo, and the opponents are perennial All-Stars with 8 figure contracts....that's for him....it's neato experience, but it's not doing him much good.

2 years...maybe 3 or 4 if you want effective.

2 years if the pitching lab scenario is 1) utilized and 2) works

I can't guarantee any of that, so I'll go with 3-4 years (which includes this one)....

Now, if we're talking as a reliever...that's a different story.

Thx, good take

Guys here on 101.1 were talking last week like he'd be up here later this year.

as a reliever, sure...later this year. But why would you do that to your #5 overall pick in his first season as a Pro?

Plus what I know about C. Bloom he isn't one to rush quality starting pitchers to MLB.

He wants them to be totally ready to start, fully prepared and be successfully as they can be once they're up here.

From what I see from a lot of media folks that cover the team… they’re dumb AF. They understand nothing about development and are hyper prone to hyperbole. They don’t react… rather, they overreact to everything.

I don’t mind them challenging him at AA. Personally I would’ve started him a level down but it’s important to understand that their development guys aren’t scouting results. How he performs this year isn’t all that important to achieving the end goal.

Idiot fans want him up pronto lest he be labeled a bust.

AOF, I don't care about his results. I'm watching his pitches. And I believe his only comfortable secondary pitch is his curve. And it's not a swing and miss pitch yet...but it's okay enough to keep the batters honest, and runs in well enough to RH batters to get the weak contact out.

I agree with the level lower.

and I don't mind being an idiot, but I've never backed down from offering my amateurish opinion either. It gets me in trouble...yes. But I do learn a lot. And you've taught me several things over the years

[kyace]

Was not a fan of the pick but guess Cards saw potential. He’s got a great arm and hopefully the attitude and aptitude to learn and become a good starter eventually. Fallback would be as a late inning reliever.
I think Franklin , Cijintje and possibly Fajardo make the rotation first.

[greyhawk]

pitch count?

pulled at 75 after 1st batter/out in the 5th. If he can maintain the 75 on a consistent basis, that would be good thing....so far he's been pulled early depending on how much he's been torched in the 1st or 2nd inning.

Need the consistent long outings...or long for him in his early pro developement....75 pitches

Realistically duce, how close is he to St. Louis?

Could he be ready for a September call up or do you think 2027 is more likely?

How close? After one really good start? 2 years at the best...that's without one hiccup in a start, one hiccup with an injury, one hiccup with the grip of the baseball and he loses feeling and progress in his secondary pitches. We're not dealing with a "Switch" that needs to be flipped like in Hitting. This guy is so far behind with his secondary pitches it's going to take a minimum of 2 Perfect Scenario years to be a starter in the bigs. I want the guy in a Pitching Lab....PRONTO. Pitching in AA, is like him being 15yo, and the opponents are perennial All-Stars with 8 figure contracts....that's for him....it's neato experience, but it's not doing him much good.

2 years...maybe 3 or 4 if you want effective.

2 years if the pitching lab scenario is 1) utilized and 2) works

I can't guarantee any of that, so I'll go with 3-4 years (which includes this one)....

Now, if we're talking as a reliever...that's a different story.

Thx, good take

Guys here on 101.1 were talking last week like he'd be up here later this year.

as a reliever, sure...later this year. But why would you do that to your #5 overall pick in his first season as a Pro?

Plus what I know about C. Bloom he isn't one to rush quality starting pitchers to MLB.

He wants them to be totally ready to start, fully prepared and be successfully as they can be once they're up here.

From what I see from a lot of media folks that cover the team… they’re dumb AF. They understand nothing about development and are hyper prone to hyperbole. They don’t react… rather, they overreact to everything.

I don’t mind them challenging him at AA. Personally I would’ve started him a level down but it’s important to understand that their development guys aren’t scouting results. How he performs this year isn’t all that important to achieving the end goal.

Idiot fans want him up pronto lest he be labeled a bust.

AOF, I don't care about his results. I'm watching his pitches. And I believe his only comfortable secondary pitch is his curve. And it's not a swing and miss pitch yet...but it's okay enough to keep the batters honest, and runs in well enough to RH batters to get the weak contact out.

I agree with the level lower.

and I don't mind being an idiot, but I've never backed down from offering my amateurish opinion either. It gets me in trouble...yes. But I do learn a lot. And you've taught me several things over the years

much appreciate all the honest opinions/takes --- is it possible there is something in the kid's mental makeup and ability to handle potential tough starts in AA that led them to put him there? I keep reading he should be at a lower level and physically with my limited knowledge i would agree, just wondering if there is more to the decision than what we see.?

[An Old Friend]

pitch count?

pulled at 75 after 1st batter/out in the 5th. If he can maintain the 75 on a consistent basis, that would be good thing....so far he's been pulled early depending on how much he's been torched in the 1st or 2nd inning.

Need the consistent long outings...or long for him in his early pro developement....75 pitches

Realistically duce, how close is he to St. Louis?

Could he be ready for a September call up or do you think 2027 is more likely?

How close? After one really good start? 2 years at the best...that's without one hiccup in a start, one hiccup with an injury, one hiccup with the grip of the baseball and he loses feeling and progress in his secondary pitches. We're not dealing with a "Switch" that needs to be flipped like in Hitting. This guy is so far behind with his secondary pitches it's going to take a minimum of 2 Perfect Scenario years to be a starter in the bigs. I want the guy in a Pitching Lab....PRONTO. Pitching in AA, is like him being 15yo, and the opponents are perennial All-Stars with 8 figure contracts....that's for him....it's neato experience, but it's not doing him much good.

2 years...maybe 3 or 4 if you want effective.

2 years if the pitching lab scenario is 1) utilized and 2) works

I can't guarantee any of that, so I'll go with 3-4 years (which includes this one)....

Now, if we're talking as a reliever...that's a different story.

Thx, good take

Guys here on 101.1 were talking last week like he'd be up here later this year.

as a reliever, sure...later this year. But why would you do that to your #5 overall pick in his first season as a Pro?

Plus what I know about C. Bloom he isn't one to rush quality starting pitchers to MLB.

He wants them to be totally ready to start, fully prepared and be successfully as they can be once they're up here.

From what I see from a lot of media folks that cover the team… they’re dumb AF. They understand nothing about development and are hyper prone to hyperbole. They don’t react… rather, they overreact to everything.

I don’t mind them challenging him at AA. Personally I would’ve started him a level down but it’s important to understand that their development guys aren’t scouting results. How he performs this year isn’t all that important to achieving the end goal.

Idiot fans want him up pronto lest he be labeled a bust.

AOF, I don't care about his results. I'm watching his pitches. And I believe his only comfortable secondary pitch is his curve. And it's not a swing and miss pitch yet...but it's okay enough to keep the batters honest, and runs in well enough to RH batters to get the weak contact out.

I agree with the level lower.

and I don't mind being an idiot, but I've never backed down from offering my amateurish opinion either. It gets me in trouble...yes. But I do learn a lot. And you've taught me several things over the years

I hope you know that I wasn’t calling you an idiot - rather those who were expecting him on a hyper fast track to the majors… the same people who hyperventilate over a poor outing.

I’ll say this with full disclosure that I haven’t looked at his pitch data at all… it seems to me the fastball needs to be flatter so it’ll play better up in the zone, and that can help transform an average breaker into more of a swing and miss offering.

I just want to see him clear 100-120 innings healthy with a K/9 in the 10 range. I’d feel really good about that.

[The__IcemaN]

Doyle compares a lot of Parker Messick from the Guardians. Messick is 6'0", 225lb, with a high effort delivery. Messick came from a solid college program (FSU) like Doyle. Was drafted 2nd round in 2022, and was in the majors by 2025.

On that same timeline, we would see Doyle in 2028 at age 24.

[An Old Friend]

Doyle compares a lot of Parker Messick from the Guardians. Messick is 6'0", 225lb, with a high effort delivery. Messick came from a solid college program (FSU) like Doyle. Was drafted 2nd round in 2022, and was in the majors by 2025.

On that same timeline, we would see Doyle in 2028 at age 24.

I’m sorry but this is funny. Messick is like a command and control savant who throws 6 different pitches with a fastball velocity that’s around the 30th percentile.

Doyle has a huge fastball, limited secondaries, and low present command of anything.

They’re not comparable at all.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

I saw some encouraging stats on Twitter the other day.

Doyle’s stats through his first 49 batters faced at AA: 11.17 ERA, 18.4 K%, 12.2 BB%, 16 hits.

His stats through the last 24 batters faced: 1.42 ERA, 37.5 K%, 4.2 BB%, 4 hits.

They challenged him pretty good by sending him to AA this season. Hopefully this is a sign that he has adjusted.

[renostl]

pitch count?

pulled at 75 after 1st batter/out in the 5th. If he can maintain the 75 on a consistent basis, that would be good thing....so far he's been pulled early depending on how much he's been torched in the 1st or 2nd inning.

Need the consistent long outings...or long for him in his early pro developement....75 pitches

Realistically duce, how close is he to St. Louis?

Could he be ready for a September call up or do you think 2027 is more likely?

How close? After one really good start? 2 years at the best...that's without one hiccup in a start, one hiccup with an injury, one hiccup with the grip of the baseball and he loses feeling and progress in his secondary pitches. We're not dealing with a "Switch" that needs to be flipped like in Hitting. This guy is so far behind with his secondary pitches it's going to take a minimum of 2 Perfect Scenario years to be a starter in the bigs. I want the guy in a Pitching Lab....PRONTO. Pitching in AA, is like him being 15yo, and the opponents are perennial All-Stars with 8 figure contracts....that's for him....it's neato experience, but it's not doing him much good.

2 years...maybe 3 or 4 if you want effective.

2 years if the pitching lab scenario is 1) utilized and 2) works

I can't guarantee any of that, so I'll go with 3-4 years (which includes this one)....

Now, if we're talking as a reliever...that's a different story.

Thx, good take

Guys here on 101.1 were talking last week like he'd be up here later this year.

as a reliever, sure...later this year. But why would you do that to your #5 overall pick in his first season as a Pro?

Plus what I know about C. Bloom he isn't one to rush quality starting pitchers to MLB.

He wants them to be totally ready to start, fully prepared and be successfully as they can be once they're up here.

From what I see from a lot of media folks that cover the team… they’re dumb AF. They understand nothing about development and are hyper prone to hyperbole. They don’t react… rather, they overreact to everything.

I don’t mind them challenging him at AA. Personally I would’ve started him a level down but it’s important to understand that their development guys aren’t scouting results. How he performs this year isn’t all that important to achieving the end goal.

Idiot fans want him up pronto lest he be labeled a bust.

AOF, I don't care about his results. I'm watching his pitches. And I believe his only comfortable secondary pitch is his curve. And it's not a swing and miss pitch yet...but it's okay enough to keep the batters honest, and runs in well enough to RH batters to get the weak contact out.

I agree with the level lower.

and I don't mind being an idiot, but I've never backed down from offering my amateurish opinion either. It gets me in trouble...yes. But I do learn a lot. And you've taught me several things over the years

much appreciate all the honest opinions/takes --- is it possible there is something in the kid's mental makeup and ability to handle potential tough starts in AA that led them to put him there? I keep reading he should be at a lower level and physically with my limited knowledge i would agree, just wondering if there is more to the decision than what we see.?

A first rounder out of a major university program who might just
need a little bit of a challenge versus having too easy success. Take away
any one of those and he may be down a level or two.

[craviduce]

I saw some encouraging stats on Twitter the other day.

Doyle’s stats through his first 49 batters faced at AA: 11.17 ERA, 18.4 K%, 12.2 BB%, 16 hits.

His stats through the last 24 batters faced: 1.42 ERA, 37.5 K%, 4.2 BB%, 4 hits.

They challenged him pretty good by sending him to AA this season. Hopefully this is a sign that he has adjusted.

better improvement, good numbers. But he's not facing the Terror of Tulsa (Dodgers) line up and Wichita (Minnesota's stacked AA team)...there's that. Those 2 teams destroyed Doyle.

What I saw this weekend was a tremendous improvement over those starts, but the bar set so low..."tremendous improvement" was easily achieved.

Lot's of summer left....I hope he gives us more good stuff

[Cardinals1964]

4 1/3 innings, gave up 1 ER, 2 hits, 1 BB and 5 Ks.

His second good start out of 5 and a plus .700 era. He’s rocking it.

[butsir01]

pitch count?

pulled at 75 after 1st batter/out in the 5th. If he can maintain the 75 on a consistent basis, that would be good thing....so far he's been pulled early depending on how much he's been torched in the 1st or 2nd inning.

Need the consistent long outings...or long for him in his early pro developement....75 pitches

Realistically duce, how close is he to St. Louis?

Could he be ready for a September call up or do you think 2027 is more likely?

How close? After one really good start? 2 years at the best...that's without one hiccup in a start, one hiccup with an injury, one hiccup with the grip of the baseball and he loses feeling and progress in his secondary pitches. We're not dealing with a "Switch" that needs to be flipped like in Hitting. This guy is so far behind with his secondary pitches it's going to take a minimum of 2 Perfect Scenario years to be a starter in the bigs. I want the guy in a Pitching Lab....PRONTO. Pitching in AA, is like him being 15yo, and the opponents are perennial All-Stars with 8 figure contracts....that's for him....it's neato experience, but it's not doing him much good.

2 years...maybe 3 or 4 if you want effective.

2 years if the pitching lab scenario is 1) utilized and 2) works

I can't guarantee any of that, so I'll go with 3-4 years (which includes this one)....

Now, if we're talking as a reliever...that's a different story.

Thx, good take

Guys here on 101.1 were talking last week like he'd be up here later this year.

as a reliever, sure...later this year. But why would you do that to your #5 overall pick in his first season as a Pro?

With the organization's experience with another undersized pitcher (Hence), it was criminal for them to waste the fifth pick on another such pitcher, who will likely be just a reliever. Am I wrong here, Crav, or just impatient?

[Carp4Cy]

pitch count?

pulled at 75 after 1st batter/out in the 5th. If he can maintain the 75 on a consistent basis, that would be good thing....so far he's been pulled early depending on how much he's been torched in the 1st or 2nd inning.

Need the consistent long outings...or long for him in his early pro developement....75 pitches

Realistically duce, how close is he to St. Louis?

Could he be ready for a September call up or do you think 2027 is more likely?

How close? After one really good start? 2 years at the best...that's without one hiccup in a start, one hiccup with an injury, one hiccup with the grip of the baseball and he loses feeling and progress in his secondary pitches. We're not dealing with a "Switch" that needs to be flipped like in Hitting. This guy is so far behind with his secondary pitches it's going to take a minimum of 2 Perfect Scenario years to be a starter in the bigs. I want the guy in a Pitching Lab....PRONTO. Pitching in AA, is like him being 15yo, and the opponents are perennial All-Stars with 8 figure contracts....that's for him....it's neato experience, but it's not doing him much good.

2 years...maybe 3 or 4 if you want effective.

2 years if the pitching lab scenario is 1) utilized and 2) works

I can't guarantee any of that, so I'll go with 3-4 years (which includes this one)....

Now, if we're talking as a reliever...that's a different story.

He is behind on his secondary offerings, which is why, as a Tennessee grad, I didn’t want to see us draft him. But I don’t think it will take 3-4 years for him to get here. I think 2 as long as he progresses. He does pitch high octane, up in the zone a lot, and uses a lot of his body to generate that MPH. If he can improve the secondaries, he would be here end of 2027. But I always thought, he was going to be a reliever. Not sure why they took him at #5 to be honest.

panic from a team that didn't want to draft a High School SS. And probably ego where they believe they can develop the High K% pitchers into an MLB starter. I'm not against that philosophy, per se. But I'm not fan of starting him in AA so naked. His contemporary/equal/rival, Kade Anderson (3rd overall pick, LSU) is ready for AAA. He's got a 0.39 ERA with the Travelers (Seattle AA) in 5 starts.

Nice. Meanwhile the guy I really wanted and drafted just before Doyle has a .910 OPS at A ball - Ethan Holliday.

What might have been if the draft order was just slightly different…. And this year we drew really poorly so a lot of top talent will go ahead of our selection.