Cijntje

[CorneliusWolfe]

Undersized gimmick/novelty pitcher with poor control. A pitcher who walks that many batters is like prospect hitters that strike out 40+% of the time. Rarely do either translate well to MLB.

Cardinals were fleeced in the Donovan deal with him as the centerpiece. Hopefully they hit on the draft pick or the return is abysmal.

On top of that, Bloom wasted the 5th overall pick in a reliever. Signing Stanek, Urias, and maybe even Dustin May were mistakes and he retained Oli.

Bloom shouldn’t get the A+ report card everyone is giving him so far. Hard to admit, but the best parts of this improved team is still all Mo’s work, and that’s a low bar.

With all due respect......how on God's earth would you have even a small idea how the Donavon trade works out? Did you know that we got two 2nd round picks in the upcoming draft as part of that deal? What if those two picks net 2 all stars? Peete has some good skills. Cjintje has a great arm and an extra great arm if needed. And you have already given up on Doyle after, what.......maybe 30-40 pro innings? Seriously?????? If you are really able to predict this....is there any way you could give me a few stock tips? Or better yet.....I'll call you when the NFL starts and you can give me the winners each week. We'll make a fortune!!!

Actually, they acquired only 1 pick, since they would have had one already when Donovan reached FA.
Also, comp level picks have roughly a 4% chance of ever becoming a quality starting MLB player.
Fact is, the reality is odds are overwhelming against the deal working out well for STL

How in the world can you possibly know that? None of us know! Did you know Pujols was a 13th rounder? Tom Brady was a 6th rounder. Keith Hernandez was a 42nd rounder. Mike Piazza was, I believe , the last player drafted. Melville....I'm sure you're a nice guy.....but do you have any idea how bad it is to be a know-it-all? If this is your opinion.....fine.....nobody is upset with that. But to make it sound like you are the final authority......is annoying at best. Think about it.

While the players you cite, and their associated draft status, did defy the norms, they were much more the exception than the norm. For a player of Donovan’s pedigree, we should’ve gotten more than lottery tickets or draft picks several years from MLB.

Either a young MLB roster player or someone banging on the door in AAA. As in, someone who can help in the somewhat immediate future and has earned their way to the big leagues. I’m not trying to predict the future, I’m just looking at the odds, and they should’ve been better in our favor for that particular trade.

We bought plenty of lottery tickets with all of the other trades, even after eating huge chunks of salary.

Teams aren’t overpaying for a complementary player, which is what Donovan is on a contender.

Agree on both points. Seattle got to underpay.

They say you have to give to get, but their give was spread so thin they won’t feel it a bit. Nor will the Cardinals get any high-impact return without a heavy dose of luck. In this particular trade, they should’ve felt the pain of the loss, like we did with Donovan.

Was he an MVP candidate? No, but he was the cost controlled proven roster player that can make immediate impact, even on a contender. That cost is supposed to be premium, as the alternative to acquire a proven “role” player like him is a free agency bidding war.

They may have gotten a good deal, true, but it is not possible unless they or another team offered
more and Bloom said no thanks. That he likes this lesser deal better.
Give credit that people take what they see as the best offer on the table.

If what you’re saying is true, then maybe the best deal would’ve been to extend Donovan. He could’ve also waited to sell at the deadline. I know he’s injured at the moment, but we can’t say he would’ve sustained the same injury playing LF for us.

The market changes constantly.
The extension may have been approached and the two parties
just didn't match. More difficult to think they didn't talk.

Won’t we be in the same spot with JJW as we were with BD by the time these guys arrive to help? If they arrive or can help at all.

[Futuregm2]

Undersized gimmick/novelty pitcher with poor control. A pitcher who walks that many batters is like prospect hitters that strike out 40+% of the time. Rarely do either translate well to MLB.

Cardinals were fleeced in the Donovan deal with him as the centerpiece. Hopefully they hit on the draft pick or the return is abysmal.

On top of that, Bloom wasted the 5th overall pick in a reliever. Signing Stanek, Urias, and maybe even Dustin May were mistakes and he retained Oli.

Bloom shouldn’t get the A+ report card everyone is giving him so far. Hard to admit, but the best parts of this improved team is still all Mo’s work, and that’s a low bar.

With all due respect......how on God's earth would you have even a small idea how the Donavon trade works out? Did you know that we got two 2nd round picks in the upcoming draft as part of that deal? What if those two picks net 2 all stars? Peete has some good skills. Cjintje has a great arm and an extra great arm if needed. And you have already given up on Doyle after, what.......maybe 30-40 pro innings? Seriously?????? If you are really able to predict this....is there any way you could give me a few stock tips? Or better yet.....I'll call you when the NFL starts and you can give me the winners each week. We'll make a fortune!!!

Actually, they acquired only 1 pick, since they would have had one already when Donovan reached FA.
Also, comp level picks have roughly a 4% chance of ever becoming a quality starting MLB player.
Fact is, the reality is odds are overwhelming against the deal working out well for STL

How in the world can you possibly know that? None of us know! Did you know Pujols was a 13th rounder? Tom Brady was a 6th rounder. Keith Hernandez was a 42nd rounder. Mike Piazza was, I believe , the last player drafted. Melville....I'm sure you're a nice guy.....but do you have any idea how bad it is to be a know-it-all? If this is your opinion.....fine.....nobody is upset with that. But to make it sound like you are the final authority......is annoying at best. Think about it.

While the players you cite, and their associated draft status, did defy the norms, they were much more the exception than the norm. For a player of Donovan’s pedigree, we should’ve gotten more than lottery tickets or draft picks several years from MLB.

Either a young MLB roster player or someone banging on the door in AAA. As in, someone who can help in the somewhat immediate future and has earned their way to the big leagues. I’m not trying to predict the future, I’m just looking at the odds, and they should’ve been better in our favor for that particular trade.

We bought plenty of lottery tickets with all of the other trades, even after eating huge chunks of salary.

Teams aren’t overpaying for a complementary player, which is what Donovan is on a contender.

Agree on both points. Seattle got to underpay.

They say you have to give to get, but their give was spread so thin they won’t feel it a bit. Nor will the Cardinals get any high-impact return without a heavy dose of luck. In this particular trade, they should’ve felt the pain of the loss, like we did with Donovan.

Was he an MVP candidate? No, but he was the cost controlled proven roster player that can make immediate impact, even on a contender. That cost is supposed to be premium, as the alternative to acquire a proven “role” player like him is a free agency bidding war.

They may have gotten a good deal, true, but it is not possible unless they or another team offered
more and Bloom said no thanks. That he likes this lesser deal better.
Give credit that people take what they see as the best offer on the table.

If what you’re saying is true, then maybe the best deal would’ve been to extend Donovan. He could’ve also waited to sell at the deadline. I know he’s injured at the moment, but we can’t say he would’ve sustained the same injury playing LF for us.

The market changes constantly.
The extension may have been approached and the two parties
just didn't match. More difficult to think they didn't talk.

Won’t we be in the same spot with JJW as we were with BD by the time these guys arrive to help? If they arrive or can help at all.

If he only turns out to be a .770 OPS player and they have another guy coming up that is as good as JJ was, then maybe they will be. But the hope and expectation is that JJ is better than that. And they also likely won’t have a player like him coming up.

[Ozziesfan41]

Undersized gimmick/novelty pitcher with poor control. A pitcher who walks that many batters is like prospect hitters that strike out 40+% of the time. Rarely do either translate well to MLB.

Cardinals were fleeced in the Donovan deal with him as the centerpiece. Hopefully they hit on the draft pick or the return is abysmal.

On top of that, Bloom wasted the 5th overall pick in a reliever. Signing Stanek, Urias, and maybe even Dustin May were mistakes and he retained Oli.

Bloom shouldn’t get the A+ report card everyone is giving him so far. Hard to admit, but the best parts of this improved team is still all Mo’s work, and that’s a low bar.

With all due respect......how on God's earth would you have even a small idea how the Donavon trade works out? Did you know that we got two 2nd round picks in the upcoming draft as part of that deal? What if those two picks net 2 all stars? Peete has some good skills. Cjintje has a great arm and an extra great arm if needed. And you have already given up on Doyle after, what.......maybe 30-40 pro innings? Seriously?????? If you are really able to predict this....is there any way you could give me a few stock tips? Or better yet.....I'll call you when the NFL starts and you can give me the winners each week. We'll make a fortune!!!

Actually, they acquired only 1 pick, since they would have had one already when Donovan reached FA.
Also, comp level picks have roughly a 4% chance of ever becoming a quality starting MLB player.
Fact is, the reality is odds are overwhelming against the deal working out well for STL

How in the world can you possibly know that? None of us know! Did you know Pujols was a 13th rounder? Tom Brady was a 6th rounder. Keith Hernandez was a 42nd rounder. Mike Piazza was, I believe , the last player drafted. Melville....I'm sure you're a nice guy.....but do you have any idea how bad it is to be a know-it-all? If this is your opinion.....fine.....nobody is upset with that. But to make it sound like you are the final authority......is annoying at best. Think about it.

While the players you cite, and their associated draft status, did defy the norms, they were much more the exception than the norm. For a player of Donovan’s pedigree, we should’ve gotten more than lottery tickets or draft picks several years from MLB.

Either a young MLB roster player or someone banging on the door in AAA. As in, someone who can help in the somewhat immediate future and has earned their way to the big leagues. I’m not trying to predict the future, I’m just looking at the odds, and they should’ve been better in our favor for that particular trade.

We bought plenty of lottery tickets with all of the other trades, even after eating huge chunks of salary.

Teams aren’t overpaying for a complementary player, which is what Donovan is on a contender.

Agree on both points. Seattle got to underpay.

They say you have to give to get, but their give was spread so thin they won’t feel it a bit. Nor will the Cardinals get any high-impact return without a heavy dose of luck. In this particular trade, they should’ve felt the pain of the loss, like we did with Donovan.

Was he an MVP candidate? No, but he was the cost controlled proven roster player that can make immediate impact, even on a contender. That cost is supposed to be premium, as the alternative to acquire a proven “role” player like him is a free agency bidding war.

Did we though? Wetherholt is at least as good as Donovan. We didn’t feel “pain”, we had a rookie ready to make an impact, quite possibly a bigger impact than Donovan, and we traded Donovan for 3 prospects (2 of which have at least the ability to have high ceilings) and 2 draft picks.

We already had JJW, he was irrelevant to the return value of that trade. Having him ready to take on 2B full time was nice, be a big part of Donovan’s value was his ability to play anywhere and hit anywhere in the lineup. Good chance we’d be in first place right now with Donny.

Donovan’s most value stems from playing 2B IMO. Yes he’s versatile, but he doesn’t hit enough at other positions to really make it worth it IMO. As a 2B he’s a good hitter. But Wetherholt’s presence made Donovan expendable.

At second base I guess. Did Urias/Gorman at 3B and Sagesse/Fermin in LF make him expendable? What if Masynn Winn has his typical health issues? JJW and BD could also hold down the middle respectably. Good leader for a young team too. I don’t agree that he was expendable, his loss stings.

A) How does his loss “sting”? This team is doing well. And Donovan is hurt again.

B) Donovan also has 4 errors at 3B this year (.907 fielding% in 2026/career .946 fielding% at 3B). And I don’t think his bat plays as well at 3B or LF. It’s above average at 2B. It’s not at the other positions and we are better off finding other solutions there.

Again, solid player. No star. He was the best player to deal this past offseason. Did they get a good haul in the long run? Time will tell.

+1 Donovan is injury prone you don’t invest in injury prone players they don’t start getting healthier as they age the injuries just start sapping more of their ability and taking longer to recover from. It would have been dumb to extend someone just for him to be completely unreliable

[ramfandan]

I know the 5-11 height gets mentioned often .
Certainly most are taller but some shorter guys have done well.
On our own team, we had Sonny Gray , a 5-11 guy, who was not only our best starter but also had a very solid MLB career.
Pedro Marinez ,5-10 or 5-11, was excellent— Hall of Famer
Sonny Gray is nearly mid 30’s and still contributing .

[kyace]

I know it is still early but many people wanted Montes as the primary return for Donovan. Currently he has one homer and a .683 ops. Meanwhile Tai Peete currently has a .940 ops and 4 home runs.