Brendan Donovan

[Melville]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

Do you think they were going to the playoffs with Donny the next two years? And if, by a miracle, they did, would they go anywhere? Hint: the answer is a hard no to both.
So then it's just what they could get back for him while he still had value and 2 yrs. pre-FA. Reality: Donny has a career .772 OPS and he was below-average defensively everywhere except 3b. And if he stayed, one of JJ/Gorman/Herrera would sit.
We can argue about who they COULD have received that would be better than the combo of 3 players and two, 2026 picks at 68 and 72.
But you're right, we won't know much for maybe 4 years.
I just know that I trust Bloom exceedingly more than Melville, and far more than myself or anyone on this board when it comes to having good information on prospects.

The Cards are missing a lot of pieces, so likely no, they do not go anywhere far with Donovan. Having said that, I am not convinced they should have traded him for the package they did, thats all.

How far this team goes in the next 2 years is going to be determined by whether Baez becomes a star and one of Walker or Gorman become an 800 OPS hitter. If both of those things happen, I actually think they have the pitching in house to make the playoffs. If all of those things happen, then yes Donovan could have made a big difference here. They moved on and we will see what happens.

Smart man.
As I have long said, the pitching staff is in better shape than the past many years and the infield (provided The Marmot plays the right guys, which is always a suspect proposition) should be top 4 in the NL.
Even with Bloom ignoring the outfield (other than making it weaker by moving Donovan), there is enough talent to play above .500 ball in 2026.
With that being true, the obvious play was to keep Donovan unless the return was overwhelming.
Instead, they moved him for underwhelming return.
As you say, we shall see.

They received the makings of filling those needs.
The 2 outfielders are further away than what I had envisioned. To me it suggests that a nearer player was either not on the table or the Cards FO was thrilled with. The players received were top round picks with more information on them now than when drafted.
No guarantees of boom or bust. They didn't embarrass themselves in the SSS of a few ST games. Add a pitcher and a couple top round picks it may take some time.

Donovan is a good player. He is still limited in the return we should expect whether or not he was the Cardinals top known trade chip. True that they didn't have to move him. True there were other possible teams to trade him to. At some point I will think Bloom took what was the better return and wait to assess it.

I think that if BD was not in the Cardinals future in which BD also had a say, the sooner a deal was made the better. His average games played the last 3 seasons hasn't been all that good.

We shall cordially agree to disagree.
Strategically, the move was a mistake.
Measured by value, it was a failure.
Bloom will have to be extremely lucky for it to work in STL's favor - and I suspect he knows that better than anyone.
He did far better in the other trades, making this one all the more puzzling.
I am free of bias and free of agenda - granting credit when earned and critique when deserved.
This move is in the rear view mirror, so there is nothing further to dissect at this point in time.
Let's see what happens over the next 2 seasons.
My success rate in predicting the outcome of trades is extremely high and unfortunately it is almost inevitable that I have this one pegged correctly.

I sense a conservative knack to him, with a liberal/risk understanding of the trade. He played it like the stock market, and went risky for big returns. That’s how far behind we got.

He knows he must hit big. Saturated the team, looking for that rabbit.

You just might be on to something.
Since Bloom was measured and deliberate in the Gray and Contreras moves, adding more certain commodities to the STL portfolio in that process, perhaps he was more willing to take a high risk flyer in moving Donovan and intentionally added more volatility to his investment plan - hoping to get lucky while being willing to write off the loss if necessary.
Asset allocation, adding a potential growth stock even though he overpaid.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

Do you think they were going to the playoffs with Donny the next two years? And if, by a miracle, they did, would they go anywhere? Hint: the answer is a hard no to both.
So then it's just what they could get back for him while he still had value and 2 yrs. pre-FA. Reality: Donny has a career .772 OPS and he was below-average defensively everywhere except 3b. And if he stayed, one of JJ/Gorman/Herrera would sit.
We can argue about who they COULD have received that would be better than the combo of 3 players and two, 2026 picks at 68 and 72.
But you're right, we won't know much for maybe 4 years.
I just know that I trust Bloom exceedingly more than Melville, and far more than myself or anyone on this board when it comes to having good information on prospects.

The Cards are missing a lot of pieces, so likely no, they do not go anywhere far with Donovan. Having said that, I am not convinced they should have traded him for the package they did, thats all.

How far this team goes in the next 2 years is going to be determined by whether Baez becomes a star and one of Walker or Gorman become an 800 OPS hitter. If both of those things happen, I actually think they have the pitching in house to make the playoffs. If all of those things happen, then yes Donovan could have made a big difference here. They moved on and we will see what happens.

Smart man.
As I have long said, the pitching staff is in better shape than the past many years and the infield (provided The Marmot plays the right guys, which is always a suspect proposition) should be top 4 in the NL.
Even with Bloom ignoring the outfield (other than making it weaker by moving Donovan), there is enough talent to play above .500 ball in 2026.
With that being true, the obvious play was to keep Donovan unless the return was overwhelming.
Instead, they moved him for underwhelming return.
As you say, we shall see.

They received the makings of filling those needs.
The 2 outfielders are further away than what I had envisioned. To me it suggests that a nearer player was either not on the table or the Cards FO was thrilled with. The players received were top round picks with more information on them now than when drafted.
No guarantees of boom or bust. They didn't embarrass themselves in the SSS of a few ST games. Add a pitcher and a couple top round picks it may take some time.

Donovan is a good player. He is still limited in the return we should expect whether or not he was the Cardinals top known trade chip. True that they didn't have to move him. True there were other possible teams to trade him to. At some point I will think Bloom took what was the better return and wait to assess it.

I think that if BD was not in the Cardinals future in which BD also had a say, the sooner a deal was made the better. His average games played the last 3 seasons hasn't been all that good.

We shall cordially agree to disagree.
Strategically, the move was a mistake.
Measured by value, it was a failure.
Bloom will have to be extremely lucky for it to work in STL's favor - and I suspect he knows that better than anyone.
He did far better in the other trades, making this one all the more puzzling.
I am free of bias and free of agenda - granting credit when earned and critique when deserved.
This move is in the rear view mirror, so there is nothing further to dissect at this point in time.
Let's see what happens over the next 2 seasons.
My success rate in predicting the outcome of trades is extremely high and unfortunately it is almost inevitable that I have this one pegged correctly.

I sense a conservative knack to him, with a liberal/risk understanding of the trade. He played it like the stock market, and went risky for big returns. That’s how far behind we got.

He knows he must hit big. Saturated the team, looking for that rabbit.

You just might be on to something.
Since Bloom was measured and deliberate in the Gray and Contreras moves, adding more certain commodities to the STL portfolio in that process, perhaps he was more willing to take a high risk flyer in moving Donovan and intentionally added more volatility to his investment plan - hoping to get lucky while being willing to write off the loss if necessary.
Asset allocation, adding a potential growth stock even though he overpaid.

You explained it Well. Maybe part of the strategy. Good news, in this mode, sooner or later he is gonna hit one. And then, like usual, you hit on a couple- the rain it pours theory.

[Pura Vida]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

The problem with the deal is that Bloom traded the best trade asset the team had - and its most complete player - for extreme high risk minor league players. Not one of whom is likely to come close to ever providing what Donovan would have over the next 2 years.
Bloom waited too long to pull the trigger and with the clock running out he was forced to take what he could get. Bloom placed himself into a weak position and paid the price for it.
Once Seattle made clear that the return would be discounted, Bloom would have done better to simply keep Donovan until July and try again
Odds are strongly against STL "winning" the Donovan trade.

The problem with the deal is that now we have the big whiff playing 3rd base instead of Donovan.
I sure hope it works out. Don't bother to reply, I've seen your act too many times.

We all hope it works out.
But fact is the odds are very long against it.
As for 3b - no, that is not why Bloom should have retained him.
The ability to play LF, 3B, SS,2B, 1B, and DH - and bring quality AB's whenever coming off the bench on "off days"- would be a massive asset to STL this season.
Utterly foolish to trade that valuable leverage away for an odd ball collection of long shots.
Bloom made some solid moves.
Which makes his foolishness in moving Donovan for exceptionally weak return all the more surprising.
Painting himself into a corner and then panicking is pretty much the only reasonable explanation.

Well stated! I think painting himself in a corner is a probability. Only 29, leads by example, surrounded by rookies and young players. I don't get it!

[45s]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

The problem with the deal is that Bloom traded the best trade asset the team had - and its most complete player - for extreme high risk minor league players. Not one of whom is likely to come close to ever providing what Donovan would have over the next 2 years.
Bloom waited too long to pull the trigger and with the clock running out he was forced to take what he could get. Bloom placed himself into a weak position and paid the price for it.
Once Seattle made clear that the return would be discounted, Bloom would have done better to simply keep Donovan until July and try again
Odds are strongly against STL "winning" the Donovan trade.

The problem with the deal is that now we have the big whiff playing 3rd base instead of Donovan.
I sure hope it works out. Don't bother to reply, I've seen your act too many times.

We all hope it works out.
But fact is the odds are very long against it.
As for 3b - no, that is not why Bloom should have retained him.
The ability to play LF, 3B, SS,2B, 1B, and DH - and bring quality AB's whenever coming off the bench on "off days"- would be a massive asset to STL this season.
Utterly foolish to trade that valuable leverage away for an odd ball collection of long shots.
Bloom made some solid moves.
Which makes his foolishness in moving Donovan for exceptionally weak return all the more surprising.
Painting himself into a corner and then panicking is pretty much the only reasonable explanation.

Well stated! I think painting himself in a corner is a probability. Only 29, leads by example, surrounded by rookies and young players. I don't get it!

The questioning of the return is valid…..and that will resolve itself…

but there was little reason to not trade him..

[Melville]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

The problem with the deal is that Bloom traded the best trade asset the team had - and its most complete player - for extreme high risk minor league players. Not one of whom is likely to come close to ever providing what Donovan would have over the next 2 years.
Bloom waited too long to pull the trigger and with the clock running out he was forced to take what he could get. Bloom placed himself into a weak position and paid the price for it.
Once Seattle made clear that the return would be discounted, Bloom would have done better to simply keep Donovan until July and try again
Odds are strongly against STL "winning" the Donovan trade.

The problem with the deal is that now we have the big whiff playing 3rd base instead of Donovan.
I sure hope it works out. Don't bother to reply, I've seen your act too many times.

We all hope it works out.
But fact is the odds are very long against it.
As for 3b - no, that is not why Bloom should have retained him.
The ability to play LF, 3B, SS,2B, 1B, and DH - and bring quality AB's whenever coming off the bench on "off days"- would be a massive asset to STL this season.
Utterly foolish to trade that valuable leverage away for an odd ball collection of long shots.
Bloom made some solid moves.
Which makes his foolishness in moving Donovan for exceptionally weak return all the more surprising.
Painting himself into a corner and then panicking is pretty much the only reasonable explanation.

Well stated! I think painting himself in a corner is a probability. Only 29, leads by example, surrounded by rookies and young players. I don't get it!

"Only 29, leads by example, surrounded by rookies and young players. I don't get it".
Simply outstanding point!
You hit the nail on the head.
Donovan is EXACTLY the type of player a team should want as a model and mentor for younger guys - while himself not yet being on the wrong side of 30.

[45s]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

The problem with the deal is that Bloom traded the best trade asset the team had - and its most complete player - for extreme high risk minor league players. Not one of whom is likely to come close to ever providing what Donovan would have over the next 2 years.
Bloom waited too long to pull the trigger and with the clock running out he was forced to take what he could get. Bloom placed himself into a weak position and paid the price for it.
Once Seattle made clear that the return would be discounted, Bloom would have done better to simply keep Donovan until July and try again
Odds are strongly against STL "winning" the Donovan trade.

The problem with the deal is that now we have the big whiff playing 3rd base instead of Donovan.
I sure hope it works out. Don't bother to reply, I've seen your act too many times.

We all hope it works out.
But fact is the odds are very long against it.
As for 3b - no, that is not why Bloom should have retained him.
The ability to play LF, 3B, SS,2B, 1B, and DH - and bring quality AB's whenever coming off the bench on "off days"- would be a massive asset to STL this season.
Utterly foolish to trade that valuable leverage away for an odd ball collection of long shots.
Bloom made some solid moves.
Which makes his foolishness in moving Donovan for exceptionally weak return all the more surprising.
Painting himself into a corner and then panicking is pretty much the only reasonable explanation.

Well stated! I think painting himself in a corner is a probability. Only 29, leads by example, surrounded by rookies and young players. I don't get it!

"Only 29, leads by example, surrounded by rookies and young players. I don't get it".
Simply outstanding point!
You hit the nail on the head.
Donovan is EXACTLY the type of player a team should want as a model and mentor for younger guys - while himself not yet being on the wrong side of 30.

If he does, indeed possess those attributes…..what is the value?

How many wins does he add? So a 70 win team becomes a 75 win team?

Is that worth passing on an opportunity for long term improvement?

[renostl]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

The problem with the deal is that Bloom traded the best trade asset the team had - and its most complete player - for extreme high risk minor league players. Not one of whom is likely to come close to ever providing what Donovan would have over the next 2 years.
Bloom waited too long to pull the trigger and with the clock running out he was forced to take what he could get. Bloom placed himself into a weak position and paid the price for it.
Once Seattle made clear that the return would be discounted, Bloom would have done better to simply keep Donovan until July and try again
Odds are strongly against STL "winning" the Donovan trade.

The problem with the deal is that now we have the big whiff playing 3rd base instead of Donovan.
I sure hope it works out. Don't bother to reply, I've seen your act too many times.

We all hope it works out.
But fact is the odds are very long against it.
As for 3b - no, that is not why Bloom should have retained him.
The ability to play LF, 3B, SS,2B, 1B, and DH - and bring quality AB's whenever coming off the bench on "off days"- would be a massive asset to STL this season.
Utterly foolish to trade that valuable leverage away for an odd ball collection of long shots.
Bloom made some solid moves.
Which makes his foolishness in moving Donovan for exceptionally weak return all the more surprising.
Painting himself into a corner and then panicking is pretty much the only reasonable explanation.

Well stated! I think painting himself in a corner is a probability. Only 29, leads by example, surrounded by rookies and young players. I don't get it!

"Only 29, leads by example, surrounded by rookies and young players. I don't get it".
Simply outstanding point!
You hit the nail on the head.
Donovan is EXACTLY the type of player a team should want as a model and mentor for younger guys - while himself not yet being on the wrong side of 30.

If he does, indeed possess those attributes…..what is the value?

How many wins does he add? So a 70 win team becomes a 75 win team?

Is that worth passing on an opportunity for long term improvement?

Difficult to see that of a player who is station to station with
below league averages in XBH and takes 43 abs per HR who only
averaged playing 2 more games a season over Nootbaar the last 3 seasons.

His replacements both at 2B and LF should have some value.

His skill is OBP and a utility glove. I really like the player. There was a place
for him on the team. His trade value though. thinking he'd bring back a known
quality outfielder that will hit 25 plus HRs is an exaggeration of his TV.

[Pura Vida]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

The problem with the deal is that Bloom traded the best trade asset the team had - and its most complete player - for extreme high risk minor league players. Not one of whom is likely to come close to ever providing what Donovan would have over the next 2 years.
Bloom waited too long to pull the trigger and with the clock running out he was forced to take what he could get. Bloom placed himself into a weak position and paid the price for it.
Once Seattle made clear that the return would be discounted, Bloom would have done better to simply keep Donovan until July and try again
Odds are strongly against STL "winning" the Donovan trade.

The problem with the deal is that now we have the big whiff playing 3rd base instead of Donovan.
I sure hope it works out. Don't bother to reply, I've seen your act too many times.

We all hope it works out.
But fact is the odds are very long against it.
As for 3b - no, that is not why Bloom should have retained him.
The ability to play LF, 3B, SS,2B, 1B, and DH - and bring quality AB's whenever coming off the bench on "off days"- would be a massive asset to STL this season.
Utterly foolish to trade that valuable leverage away for an odd ball collection of long shots.
Bloom made some solid moves.
Which makes his foolishness in moving Donovan for exceptionally weak return all the more surprising.
Painting himself into a corner and then panicking is pretty much the only reasonable explanation.

Well stated! I think painting himself in a corner is a probability. Only 29, leads by example, surrounded by rookies and young players. I don't get it!

"Only 29, leads by example, surrounded by rookies and young players. I don't get it".
Simply outstanding point!
You hit the nail on the head.
Donovan is EXACTLY the type of player a team should want as a model and mentor for younger guys - while himself not yet being on the wrong side of 30.

If he does, indeed possess those attributes…..what is the value?

How many wins does he add? So a 70 win team becomes a 75 win team?

Is that worth passing on an opportunity for long term improvement?

You're trying to assign a number value to a player who is a leader and sets examples daily, for a young team?? That part of the game is not measurable by a stat. But every winning team as their good mix of vets and rookies and in betweens. Regardless, it will go down as one of my least very trades.

[45s]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

The problem with the deal is that Bloom traded the best trade asset the team had - and its most complete player - for extreme high risk minor league players. Not one of whom is likely to come close to ever providing what Donovan would have over the next 2 years.
Bloom waited too long to pull the trigger and with the clock running out he was forced to take what he could get. Bloom placed himself into a weak position and paid the price for it.
Once Seattle made clear that the return would be discounted, Bloom would have done better to simply keep Donovan until July and try again
Odds are strongly against STL "winning" the Donovan trade.

The problem with the deal is that now we have the big whiff playing 3rd base instead of Donovan.
I sure hope it works out. Don't bother to reply, I've seen your act too many times.

We all hope it works out.
But fact is the odds are very long against it.
As for 3b - no, that is not why Bloom should have retained him.
The ability to play LF, 3B, SS,2B, 1B, and DH - and bring quality AB's whenever coming off the bench on "off days"- would be a massive asset to STL this season.
Utterly foolish to trade that valuable leverage away for an odd ball collection of long shots.
Bloom made some solid moves.
Which makes his foolishness in moving Donovan for exceptionally weak return all the more surprising.
Painting himself into a corner and then panicking is pretty much the only reasonable explanation.

Well stated! I think painting himself in a corner is a probability. Only 29, leads by example, surrounded by rookies and young players. I don't get it!

"Only 29, leads by example, surrounded by rookies and young players. I don't get it".
Simply outstanding point!
You hit the nail on the head.
Donovan is EXACTLY the type of player a team should want as a model and mentor for younger guys - while himself not yet being on the wrong side of 30.

If he does, indeed possess those attributes…..what is the value?

How many wins does he add? So a 70 win team becomes a 75 win team?

Is that worth passing on an opportunity for long term improvement?

You're trying to assign a number value to a player who is a leader and sets examples daily, for a young team?? That part of the game is not measurable by a stat. But every winning team as their good mix of vets and rookies and in betweens. Regardless, it will go down as one of my least very trades.

And if the club was a winning team those attributes would be relevant…..

but they’re not………so Donovan’s value is what talent he would bring for the future as the club builds to be a winning team..

you’re dislike for the trade is noted….great thing about baseball discussions, reasonable people can disagree..

[ecleme22]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

The problem with the deal is that Bloom traded the best trade asset the team had - and its most complete player - for extreme high risk minor league players. Not one of whom is likely to come close to ever providing what Donovan would have over the next 2 years.
Bloom waited too long to pull the trigger and with the clock running out he was forced to take what he could get. Bloom placed himself into a weak position and paid the price for it.
Once Seattle made clear that the return would be discounted, Bloom would have done better to simply keep Donovan until July and try again
Odds are strongly against STL "winning" the Donovan trade.

The problem with the deal is that now we have the big whiff playing 3rd base instead of Donovan.
I sure hope it works out. Don't bother to reply, I've seen your act too many times.

We all hope it works out.
But fact is the odds are very long against it.
As for 3b - no, that is not why Bloom should have retained him.
The ability to play LF, 3B, SS,2B, 1B, and DH - and bring quality AB's whenever coming off the bench on "off days"- would be a massive asset to STL this season.
Utterly foolish to trade that valuable leverage away for an odd ball collection of long shots.
Bloom made some solid moves.
Which makes his foolishness in moving Donovan for exceptionally weak return all the more surprising.
Painting himself into a corner and then panicking is pretty much the only reasonable explanation.

Well stated! I think painting himself in a corner is a probability. Only 29, leads by example, surrounded by rookies and young players. I don't get it!

"Only 29, leads by example, surrounded by rookies and young players. I don't get it".
Simply outstanding point!
You hit the nail on the head.
Donovan is EXACTLY the type of player a team should want as a model and mentor for younger guys - while himself not yet being on the wrong side of 30.

If he does, indeed possess those attributes…..what is the value?

How many wins does he add? So a 70 win team becomes a 75 win team?

Is that worth passing on an opportunity for long term improvement?

You're trying to assign a number value to a player who is a leader and sets examples daily, for a young team?? That part of the game is not measurable by a stat. But every winning team as their good mix of vets and rookies and in betweens. Regardless, it will go down as one of my least very trades.

Sigh…

You realize now was the perfect time to trade BD, right?

Also, this is the perfect time for Burly, Herrera, Winn, etc step up and be leaders…

[Jobu's Rum]

3 run shot by Donny last night, dude is going to be a beast in that lineup

[Pura Vida]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

The problem with the deal is that Bloom traded the best trade asset the team had - and its most complete player - for extreme high risk minor league players. Not one of whom is likely to come close to ever providing what Donovan would have over the next 2 years.
Bloom waited too long to pull the trigger and with the clock running out he was forced to take what he could get. Bloom placed himself into a weak position and paid the price for it.
Once Seattle made clear that the return would be discounted, Bloom would have done better to simply keep Donovan until July and try again
Odds are strongly against STL "winning" the Donovan trade.

The problem with the deal is that now we have the big whiff playing 3rd base instead of Donovan.
I sure hope it works out. Don't bother to reply, I've seen your act too many times.

We all hope it works out.
But fact is the odds are very long against it.
As for 3b - no, that is not why Bloom should have retained him.
The ability to play LF, 3B, SS,2B, 1B, and DH - and bring quality AB's whenever coming off the bench on "off days"- would be a massive asset to STL this season.
Utterly foolish to trade that valuable leverage away for an odd ball collection of long shots.
Bloom made some solid moves.
Which makes his foolishness in moving Donovan for exceptionally weak return all the more surprising.
Painting himself into a corner and then panicking is pretty much the only reasonable explanation.

Well stated! I think painting himself in a corner is a probability. Only 29, leads by example, surrounded by rookies and young players. I don't get it!

"Only 29, leads by example, surrounded by rookies and young players. I don't get it".
Simply outstanding point!
You hit the nail on the head.
Donovan is EXACTLY the type of player a team should want as a model and mentor for younger guys - while himself not yet being on the wrong side of 30.

-

Thanks...to me it remains a mystery. Maybe from the knowledge he was being shopped, it got realy personal and not repairable. For the so-called rebuild, he was perfect in many ways. The Cardinals did puff pieces on him flattering his work ethic and more. People forget trading can be very emotional, particularly from a player's perspective. Egos and moving oneself and family are definitely at play.

[Carp4Cy]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

The problem with the deal is that Bloom traded the best trade asset the team had - and its most complete player - for extreme high risk minor league players. Not one of whom is likely to come close to ever providing what Donovan would have over the next 2 years.
Bloom waited too long to pull the trigger and with the clock running out he was forced to take what he could get. Bloom placed himself into a weak position and paid the price for it.
Once Seattle made clear that the return would be discounted, Bloom would have done better to simply keep Donovan until July and try again
Odds are strongly against STL "winning" the Donovan trade.

The problem with the deal is that now we have the big whiff playing 3rd base instead of Donovan.
I sure hope it works out. Don't bother to reply, I've seen your act too many times.

We all hope it works out.
But fact is the odds are very long against it.
As for 3b - no, that is not why Bloom should have retained him.
The ability to play LF, 3B, SS,2B, 1B, and DH - and bring quality AB's whenever coming off the bench on "off days"- would be a massive asset to STL this season.
Utterly foolish to trade that valuable leverage away for an odd ball collection of long shots.
Bloom made some solid moves.
Which makes his foolishness in moving Donovan for exceptionally weak return all the more surprising.
Painting himself into a corner and then panicking is pretty much the only reasonable explanation.

Well stated! I think painting himself in a corner is a probability. Only 29, leads by example, surrounded by rookies and young players. I don't get it!

"Only 29, leads by example, surrounded by rookies and young players. I don't get it".
Simply outstanding point!
You hit the nail on the head.
Donovan is EXACTLY the type of player a team should want as a model and mentor for younger guys - while himself not yet being on the wrong side of 30.

If he does, indeed possess those attributes…..what is the value?

How many wins does he add? So a 70 win team becomes a 75 win team?

Is that worth passing on an opportunity for long term improvement?

You're trying to assign a number value to a player who is a leader and sets examples daily, for a young team?? That part of the game is not measurable by a stat. But every winning team as their good mix of vets and rookies and in betweens. Regardless, it will go down as one of my least very trades.

And if the club was a winning team those attributes would be relevant…..

but they’re not………so Donovan’s value is what talent he would bring for the future as the club builds to be a winning team..

you’re dislike for the trade is noted….great thing about baseball discussions, reasonable people can disagree..

But who says we can’t be winning, and by when?

This lineup has suddenly come to life, Gorman and Walker might finally be improving. Libby and McGreevey have looked good all March. JJW off to the races. We have Matthews, Baez, Fitts in AAA knocking on the door.

Who’s to say we won’t have critical mass with plenty of money to fill remaining holes by end of this season and start competing in 27? Donny still would have been under contract and would only help that team a lot. January was too early to punt on 2027 unless Bill is completely unwilling to spend at all before he dies.

[Adam2]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

The problem with the deal is that Bloom traded the best trade asset the team had - and its most complete player - for extreme high risk minor league players. Not one of whom is likely to come close to ever providing what Donovan would have over the next 2 years.
Bloom waited too long to pull the trigger and with the clock running out he was forced to take what he could get. Bloom placed himself into a weak position and paid the price for it.
Once Seattle made clear that the return would be discounted, Bloom would have done better to simply keep Donovan until July and try again
Odds are strongly against STL "winning" the Donovan trade.

The problem with the deal is that now we have the big whiff playing 3rd base instead of Donovan.
I sure hope it works out. Don't bother to reply, I've seen your act too many times.

We all hope it works out.
But fact is the odds are very long against it.
As for 3b - no, that is not why Bloom should have retained him.
The ability to play LF, 3B, SS,2B, 1B, and DH - and bring quality AB's whenever coming off the bench on "off days"- would be a massive asset to STL this season.
Utterly foolish to trade that valuable leverage away for an odd ball collection of long shots.
Bloom made some solid moves.
Which makes his foolishness in moving Donovan for exceptionally weak return all the more surprising.
Painting himself into a corner and then panicking is pretty much the only reasonable explanation.

Well stated! I think painting himself in a corner is a probability. Only 29, leads by example, surrounded by rookies and young players. I don't get it!

"Only 29, leads by example, surrounded by rookies and young players. I don't get it".
Simply outstanding point!
You hit the nail on the head.
Donovan is EXACTLY the type of player a team should want as a model and mentor for younger guys - while himself not yet being on the wrong side of 30.

If he does, indeed possess those attributes…..what is the value?

How many wins does he add? So a 70 win team becomes a 75 win team?

Is that worth passing on an opportunity for long term improvement?

You're trying to assign a number value to a player who is a leader and sets examples daily, for a young team?? That part of the game is not measurable by a stat. But every winning team as their good mix of vets and rookies and in betweens. Regardless, it will go down as one of my least very trades.

And if the club was a winning team those attributes would be relevant…..

but they’re not………so Donovan’s value is what talent he would bring for the future as the club builds to be a winning team..

you’re dislike for the trade is noted….great thing about baseball discussions, reasonable people can disagree..

But who says we can’t be winning, and by when?

This lineup has suddenly come to life, Gorman and Walker might finally be improving. Libby and McGreevey have looked good all March. JJW off to the races. We have Matthews, Baez, Fitts in AAA knocking on the door.

Who’s to say we won’t have critical mass with plenty of money to fill remaining holes by end of this season and start competing in 27? Donny still would have been under contract and would only help that team a lot. January was too early to punt on 2027 unless Bill is completely unwilling to spend at all before he dies.

It has suddenly come to life......after the first series......?? Not saying i wouldn't like Donovan in the lineup but come on now

[Bomber1]

to

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

Never about me.
And I am always disappointed when others attempt to make it so.
I am only and always about the game.
Though ever hesitant to discuss my brilliant analysis, I must humbly admit how incredibly accurate I was in 2021 and every single day since concerning Donovan and Mootbasr.
In March of that year, after watching him in ST, I said Donovan would be the first of STL's position player prospects to reach MLB and would prove to be the best all around player of the bunch.
It took less than 90 days for her m to prove me correct.
Also since 2032, when Super Slo Mo proclaimed Mootbasr would become a middle order bat and a "core" player, I said he was wrong.
In fact, I was the only person on the planet to correctly advise that Moot be traded before his value cratered
The Cardinals - and nearly everyone else (being too much a gentleman, I will not mention present company) - have been wrong about him from day one,while I have been correct every single day since.
Again, I am mention these items not to promote my perfect analysis, but simply as a community service so that all can rest assured that I will be proven correct in my analysis of the Donovan trade.

My God you are a blowhard.

[Hoosier59]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

The problem with the deal is that Bloom traded the best trade asset the team had - and its most complete player - for extreme high risk minor league players. Not one of whom is likely to come close to ever providing what Donovan would have over the next 2 years.
Bloom waited too long to pull the trigger and with the clock running out he was forced to take what he could get. Bloom placed himself into a weak position and paid the price for it.
Once Seattle made clear that the return would be discounted, Bloom would have done better to simply keep Donovan until July and try again
Odds are strongly against STL "winning" the Donovan trade.

The problem with the deal is that now we have the big whiff playing 3rd base instead of Donovan.
I sure hope it works out. Don't bother to reply, I've seen your act too many times.

We all hope it works out.
But fact is the odds are very long against it.
As for 3b - no, that is not why Bloom should have retained him.
The ability to play LF, 3B, SS,2B, 1B, and DH - and bring quality AB's whenever coming off the bench on "off days"- would be a massive asset to STL this season.
Utterly foolish to trade that valuable leverage away for an odd ball collection of long shots.
Bloom made some solid moves.
Which makes his foolishness in moving Donovan for exceptionally weak return all the more surprising.
Painting himself into a corner and then panicking is pretty much the only reasonable explanation.

Well stated! I think painting himself in a corner is a probability. Only 29, leads by example, surrounded by rookies and young players. I don't get it!

"Only 29, leads by example, surrounded by rookies and young players. I don't get it".
Simply outstanding point!
You hit the nail on the head.
Donovan is EXACTLY the type of player a team should want as a model and mentor for younger guys - while himself not yet being on the wrong side of 30.

People are looking at it for only one season, but the impact Donovan would have on the young players could be career lasting.
So, yes, it might only be 5 more wins in ‘26, but what about in ‘27, ‘28, etc….