Brendan Donovan

[ClassicO]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

Do you think they were going to the playoffs with Donny the next two years? And if, by a miracle, they did, would they go anywhere? Hint: the answer is a hard no to both.
So then it's just what they could get back for him while he still had value and 2 yrs. pre-FA. Reality: Donny has a career .772 OPS and he was below-average defensively everywhere except 3b. And if he stayed, one of JJ/Gorman/Herrera would sit.
We can argue about who they COULD have received that would be better than the combo of 3 players and two, 2026 picks at 68 and 72.
But you're right, we won't know much for maybe 4 years.
I just know that I trust Bloom exceedingly more than Melville, and far more than myself or anyone on this board when it comes to having good information on prospects.

[Melville]

Who has better numbers to end the year? Donnie or JJ?

Depends on which number.

[Melville]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

The problem with the deal is that Bloom traded the best trade asset the team had - and its most complete player - for extreme high risk minor league players. Not one of whom is likely to come close to ever providing what Donovan would have over the next 2 years.
Bloom waited too long to pull the trigger and with the clock running out he was forced to take what he could get. Bloom placed himself into a weak position and paid the price for it.
Once Seattle made clear that the return would be discounted, Bloom would have done better to simply keep Donovan until July and try again
Odds are strongly against STL "winning" the Donovan trade.

[riff raff]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

The problem with the deal is that Bloom traded the best trade asset the team had - and its most complete player - for extreme high risk minor league players. Not one of whom is likely to come close to ever providing what Donovan would have over the next 2 years.
Bloom waited too long to pull the trigger and with the clock running out he was forced to take what he could get. Bloom placed himself into a weak position and paid the price for it.
Once Seattle made clear that the return would be discounted, Bloom would have done better to simply keep Donovan until July and try again
Odds are strongly against STL "winning" the Donovan trade.

The problem with the deal is that now we have the big whiff playing 3rd base instead of Donovan.
I sure hope it works out. Don't bother to reply, I've seen your act too many times.

[Melville]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

The problem with the deal is that Bloom traded the best trade asset the team had - and its most complete player - for extreme high risk minor league players. Not one of whom is likely to come close to ever providing what Donovan would have over the next 2 years.
Bloom waited too long to pull the trigger and with the clock running out he was forced to take what he could get. Bloom placed himself into a weak position and paid the price for it.
Once Seattle made clear that the return would be discounted, Bloom would have done better to simply keep Donovan until July and try again
Odds are strongly against STL "winning" the Donovan trade.

The problem with the deal is that now we have the big whiff playing 3rd base instead of Donovan.
I sure hope it works out. Don't bother to reply, I've seen your act too many times.

We all hope it works out.
But fact is the odds are very long against it.
As for 3b - no, that is not why Bloom should have retained him.
The ability to play LF, 3B, SS,2B, 1B, and DH - and bring quality AB's whenever coming off the bench on "off days"- would be a massive asset to STL this season.
Utterly foolish to trade that valuable leverage away for an odd ball collection of long shots.
Bloom made some solid moves.
Which makes his foolishness in moving Donovan for exceptionally weak return all the more surprising.
Painting himself into a corner and then panicking is pretty much the only reasonable explanation.

[ICCFIM2]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

Do you think they were going to the playoffs with Donny the next two years? And if, by a miracle, they did, would they go anywhere? Hint: the answer is a hard no to both.
So then it's just what they could get back for him while he still had value and 2 yrs. pre-FA. Reality: Donny has a career .772 OPS and he was below-average defensively everywhere except 3b. And if he stayed, one of JJ/Gorman/Herrera would sit.
We can argue about who they COULD have received that would be better than the combo of 3 players and two, 2026 picks at 68 and 72.
But you're right, we won't know much for maybe 4 years.
I just know that I trust Bloom exceedingly more than Melville, and far more than myself or anyone on this board when it comes to having good information on prospects.

The Cards are missing a lot of pieces, so likely no, they do not go anywhere far with Donovan. Having said that, I am not convinced they should have traded him for the package they did, thats all.

How far this team goes in the next 2 years is going to be determined by whether Baez becomes a star and one of Walker or Gorman become an 800 OPS hitter. If both of those things happen, I actually think they have the pitching in house to make the playoffs. If all of those things happen, then yes Donovan could have made a big difference here. They moved on and we will see what happens.

[Quincy Varnish]

Mariners lost

No hits from Cal, Naylor or J Rod

Protection is a myth

"Protection" is a myth, according to several studies.
AI -
1) "More recent work using Statcast-era pitch data finds very small effects: Elite “protectors” slightly increase the percentage of strikes or middle-of-the-plate pitches seen by the batter ahead of them.
The magnitude is extremely small—on the order of a few extra hittable pitches over an entire season, not enough to drastically change a hitter’s line by itself. [paraballnotes.com]"
2) "Most large-scale statistical studies have found no meaningful improvement in overall hitting performance (OPS, wOBA, slugging) simply because a great hitter is on deck. Researchers have repeatedly failed to show that batters consistently hit better when “protected,” once you control for player quality and context. [baseballpr...pectus.com], [blogs.fangraphs.com]"

It’s not just who’s on deck, it’s also the guys batting in front of them. Last year, league OPS with bases empty - .703, runners on - .740.

[ClassicO]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

Do you think they were going to the playoffs with Donny the next two years? And if, by a miracle, they did, would they go anywhere? Hint: the answer is a hard no to both.
So then it's just what they could get back for him while he still had value and 2 yrs. pre-FA. Reality: Donny has a career .772 OPS and he was below-average defensively everywhere except 3b. And if he stayed, one of JJ/Gorman/Herrera would sit.
We can argue about who they COULD have received that would be better than the combo of 3 players and two, 2026 picks at 68 and 72.
But you're right, we won't know much for maybe 4 years.
I just know that I trust Bloom exceedingly more than Melville, and far more than myself or anyone on this board when it comes to having good information on prospects.

The Cards are missing a lot of pieces, so likely no, they do not go anywhere far with Donovan. Having said that, I am not convinced they should have traded him for the package they did, thats all.

How far this team goes in the next 2 years is going to be determined by whether Baez becomes a star and one of Walker or Gorman become an 800 OPS hitter. If both of those things happen, I actually think they have the pitching in house to make the playoffs. If all of those things happen, then yes Donovan could have made a big difference here. They moved on and we will see what happens.

Well reasoned, but I don't think, even with the two things you mentioned, they would make the playoffs, much less beat the Phillies, Dodgers, Mets, Brewers, to move on.
I'm a WS or nothing guy, so I want them to find high-ceiling young guys to add to a core that currently has no superstars. They NEED SUPERSTARS (e.g, Pujols, Rolen, Edmonds, Molina, Carp, Waino).
They certainly can't go anywhere, even in the next few years, w/o stars, and that has to include JJ, Baez, Herrera and one of the top catchers.
But I agree with Bloom's logic that they needed to dump the vets and take risks to find those superstars.

[Melville]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

Do you think they were going to the playoffs with Donny the next two years? And if, by a miracle, they did, would they go anywhere? Hint: the answer is a hard no to both.
So then it's just what they could get back for him while he still had value and 2 yrs. pre-FA. Reality: Donny has a career .772 OPS and he was below-average defensively everywhere except 3b. And if he stayed, one of JJ/Gorman/Herrera would sit.
We can argue about who they COULD have received that would be better than the combo of 3 players and two, 2026 picks at 68 and 72.
But you're right, we won't know much for maybe 4 years.
I just know that I trust Bloom exceedingly more than Melville, and far more than myself or anyone on this board when it comes to having good information on prospects.

The Cards are missing a lot of pieces, so likely no, they do not go anywhere far with Donovan. Having said that, I am not convinced they should have traded him for the package they did, thats all.

How far this team goes in the next 2 years is going to be determined by whether Baez becomes a star and one of Walker or Gorman become an 800 OPS hitter. If both of those things happen, I actually think they have the pitching in house to make the playoffs. If all of those things happen, then yes Donovan could have made a big difference here. They moved on and we will see what happens.

Smart man.
As I have long said, the pitching staff is in better shape than the past many years and the infield (provided The Marmot plays the right guys, which is always a suspect proposition) should be top 4 in the NL.
Even with Bloom ignoring the outfield (other than making it weaker by moving Donovan), there is enough talent to play above .500 ball in 2026.
With that being true, the obvious play was to keep Donovan unless the return was overwhelming.
Instead, they moved him for underwhelming return.
As you say, we shall see.

[Cusecards]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

The problem with the deal is that Bloom traded the best trade asset the team had - and its most complete player - for extreme high risk minor league players. Not one of whom is likely to come close to ever providing what Donovan would have over the next 2 years.
Bloom waited too long to pull the trigger and with the clock running out he was forced to take what he could get. Bloom placed himself into a weak position and paid the price for it.
Once Seattle made clear that the return would be discounted, Bloom would have done better to simply keep Donovan until July and try again
Odds are strongly against STL "winning" the Donovan trade.

The problem with the deal is that now we have the big whiff playing 3rd base instead of Donovan.
I sure hope it works out. Don't bother to reply, I've seen your act too many times.

“Act” is a perfect description. Although his act needs new material.
Same old one liners. Good for a daily laugh though!
Of course he’ll respond! LOL

[ICCFIM2]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

Do you think they were going to the playoffs with Donny the next two years? And if, by a miracle, they did, would they go anywhere? Hint: the answer is a hard no to both.
So then it's just what they could get back for him while he still had value and 2 yrs. pre-FA. Reality: Donny has a career .772 OPS and he was below-average defensively everywhere except 3b. And if he stayed, one of JJ/Gorman/Herrera would sit.
We can argue about who they COULD have received that would be better than the combo of 3 players and two, 2026 picks at 68 and 72.
But you're right, we won't know much for maybe 4 years.
I just know that I trust Bloom exceedingly more than Melville, and far more than myself or anyone on this board when it comes to having good information on prospects.

The Cards are missing a lot of pieces, so likely no, they do not go anywhere far with Donovan. Having said that, I am not convinced they should have traded him for the package they did, thats all.

How far this team goes in the next 2 years is going to be determined by whether Baez becomes a star and one of Walker or Gorman become an 800 OPS hitter. If both of those things happen, I actually think they have the pitching in house to make the playoffs. If all of those things happen, then yes Donovan could have made a big difference here. They moved on and we will see what happens.

Well reasoned, but I don't think, even with the two things you mentioned, they would make the playoffs, much less beat the Phillies, Dodgers, Mets, Brewers, to move on.
I'm a WS or nothing guy, so I want them to find high-ceiling young guys to add to a core that currently has no superstars. They NEED SUPERSTARS (e.g, Pujols, Rolen, Edmonds, Molina, Carp, Waino).
They certainly can't go anywhere, even in the next few years, w/o stars, and that has to include JJ, Baez, Herrera and one of the top catchers.
But I agree with Bloom's logic that they needed to dump the vets and take risks to find those superstars.

With the ML payroll disparity the way it is, unless the next CBA addresses that, the Cards are never again likely to look like the superior team on paper to the Dodgers Mets and Phillies unless their prospects catch lightening in a bottle. But good pitching can beat good hitting, particularly in the short run. So even a team constructed as is with Baez in the middle could make a run if Doyle, May and Liberatore/Mathews become a dominant 3 SP staff. Won't happen this year. But 2027 is not impossible if the games are played in 2027.

What the Dodgers have done with payroll is simply silly. It has made a mockery of the overall competitive balance. If they don't win, it is either, funny proves my point or both...

I seriously doubt we see another lineup that looks like Pujols, Rolen and Edmonds in the 3-4-5 slots within the next 20 years. That was a once in a lifetime line-up. Even they only won 1 WS.

[Carp4Cy]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

Do you think they were going to the playoffs with Donny the next two years? And if, by a miracle, they did, would they go anywhere? Hint: the answer is a hard no to both.
So then it's just what they could get back for him while he still had value and 2 yrs. pre-FA. Reality: Donny has a career .772 OPS and he was below-average defensively everywhere except 3b. And if he stayed, one of JJ/Gorman/Herrera would sit.
We can argue about who they COULD have received that would be better than the combo of 3 players and two, 2026 picks at 68 and 72.
But you're right, we won't know much for maybe 4 years.
I just know that I trust Bloom exceedingly more than Melville, and far more than myself or anyone on this board when it comes to having good information on prospects.

The Cards are missing a lot of pieces, so likely no, they do not go anywhere far with Donovan. Having said that, I am not convinced they should have traded him for the package they did, thats all.

How far this team goes in the next 2 years is going to be determined by whether Baez becomes a star and one of Walker or Gorman become an 800 OPS hitter. If both of those things happen, I actually think they have the pitching in house to make the playoffs. If all of those things happen, then yes Donovan could have made a big difference here. They moved on and we will see what happens.

Thing is, even with Donovan, we easily have the money to bring in a ToTR SP and a top hitter (Goldy in his prime level salary) and still have plenty of dry powder left over - as soon as 2027. It just requires Bill being willing to spend anything at all, and bloom actually making the moves.

[Melville]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

Do you think they were going to the playoffs with Donny the next two years? And if, by a miracle, they did, would they go anywhere? Hint: the answer is a hard no to both.
So then it's just what they could get back for him while he still had value and 2 yrs. pre-FA. Reality: Donny has a career .772 OPS and he was below-average defensively everywhere except 3b. And if he stayed, one of JJ/Gorman/Herrera would sit.
We can argue about who they COULD have received that would be better than the combo of 3 players and two, 2026 picks at 68 and 72.
But you're right, we won't know much for maybe 4 years.
I just know that I trust Bloom exceedingly more than Melville, and far more than myself or anyone on this board when it comes to having good information on prospects.

The Cards are missing a lot of pieces, so likely no, they do not go anywhere far with Donovan. Having said that, I am not convinced they should have traded him for the package they did, thats all.

How far this team goes in the next 2 years is going to be determined by whether Baez becomes a star and one of Walker or Gorman become an 800 OPS hitter. If both of those things happen, I actually think they have the pitching in house to make the playoffs. If all of those things happen, then yes Donovan could have made a big difference here. They moved on and we will see what happens.

Thing is, even with Donovan, we easily have the money to bring in a ToTR SP and a top hitter (Goldy in his prime level salary) and still have plenty of dry powder left over - as soon as 2027. It just requires Bill being willing to spend anything at all, and bloom actually making the moves.

Correct.

[renostl]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

Do you think they were going to the playoffs with Donny the next two years? And if, by a miracle, they did, would they go anywhere? Hint: the answer is a hard no to both.
So then it's just what they could get back for him while he still had value and 2 yrs. pre-FA. Reality: Donny has a career .772 OPS and he was below-average defensively everywhere except 3b. And if he stayed, one of JJ/Gorman/Herrera would sit.
We can argue about who they COULD have received that would be better than the combo of 3 players and two, 2026 picks at 68 and 72.
But you're right, we won't know much for maybe 4 years.
I just know that I trust Bloom exceedingly more than Melville, and far more than myself or anyone on this board when it comes to having good information on prospects.

The Cards are missing a lot of pieces, so likely no, they do not go anywhere far with Donovan. Having said that, I am not convinced they should have traded him for the package they did, thats all.

How far this team goes in the next 2 years is going to be determined by whether Baez becomes a star and one of Walker or Gorman become an 800 OPS hitter. If both of those things happen, I actually think they have the pitching in house to make the playoffs. If all of those things happen, then yes Donovan could have made a big difference here. They moved on and we will see what happens.

Smart man.
As I have long said, the pitching staff is in better shape than the past many years and the infield (provided The Marmot plays the right guys, which is always a suspect proposition) should be top 4 in the NL.
Even with Bloom ignoring the outfield (other than making it weaker by moving Donovan), there is enough talent to play above .500 ball in 2026.
With that being true, the obvious play was to keep Donovan unless the return was overwhelming.
Instead, they moved him for underwhelming return.
As you say, we shall see.

They received the makings of filling those needs.
The 2 outfielders are further away than what I had envisioned. To me it suggests that a nearer player was either not on the table or the Cards FO was thrilled with. The players received were top round picks with more information on them now than when drafted.
No guarantees of boom or bust. They didn't embarrass themselves in the SSS of a few ST games. Add a pitcher and a couple top round picks it may take some time.

Donovan is a good player. He is still limited in the return we should expect whether or not he was the Cardinals top known trade chip. True that they didn't have to move him. True there were other possible teams to trade him to. At some point I will think Bloom took what was the better return and wait to assess it.

I think that if BD was not in the Cardinals future in which BD also had a say, the sooner a deal was made the better. His average games played the last 3 seasons hasn't been all that good.

[Melville]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

Do you think they were going to the playoffs with Donny the next two years? And if, by a miracle, they did, would they go anywhere? Hint: the answer is a hard no to both.
So then it's just what they could get back for him while he still had value and 2 yrs. pre-FA. Reality: Donny has a career .772 OPS and he was below-average defensively everywhere except 3b. And if he stayed, one of JJ/Gorman/Herrera would sit.
We can argue about who they COULD have received that would be better than the combo of 3 players and two, 2026 picks at 68 and 72.
But you're right, we won't know much for maybe 4 years.
I just know that I trust Bloom exceedingly more than Melville, and far more than myself or anyone on this board when it comes to having good information on prospects.

The Cards are missing a lot of pieces, so likely no, they do not go anywhere far with Donovan. Having said that, I am not convinced they should have traded him for the package they did, thats all.

How far this team goes in the next 2 years is going to be determined by whether Baez becomes a star and one of Walker or Gorman become an 800 OPS hitter. If both of those things happen, I actually think they have the pitching in house to make the playoffs. If all of those things happen, then yes Donovan could have made a big difference here. They moved on and we will see what happens.

Smart man.
As I have long said, the pitching staff is in better shape than the past many years and the infield (provided The Marmot plays the right guys, which is always a suspect proposition) should be top 4 in the NL.
Even with Bloom ignoring the outfield (other than making it weaker by moving Donovan), there is enough talent to play above .500 ball in 2026.
With that being true, the obvious play was to keep Donovan unless the return was overwhelming.
Instead, they moved him for underwhelming return.
As you say, we shall see.

They received the makings of filling those needs.
The 2 outfielders are further away than what I had envisioned. To me it suggests that a nearer player was either not on the table or the Cards FO was thrilled with. The players received were top round picks with more information on them now than when drafted.
No guarantees of boom or bust. They didn't embarrass themselves in the SSS of a few ST games. Add a pitcher and a couple top round picks it may take some time.

Donovan is a good player. He is still limited in the return we should expect whether or not he was the Cardinals top known trade chip. True that they didn't have to move him. True there were other possible teams to trade him to. At some point I will think Bloom took what was the better return and wait to assess it.

I think that if BD was not in the Cardinals future in which BD also had a say, the sooner a deal was made the better. His average games played the last 3 seasons hasn't been all that good.

We shall cordially agree to disagree.
Strategically, the move was a mistake.
Measured by value, it was a failure.
Bloom will have to be extremely lucky for it to work in STL's favor - and I suspect he knows that better than anyone.
He did far better in the other trades, making this one all the more puzzling.
I am free of bias and free of agenda - granting credit when earned and critique when deserved.
This move is in the rear view mirror, so there is nothing further to dissect at this point in time.
Let's see what happens over the next 2 seasons.
My success rate in predicting the outcome of trades is extremely high and unfortunately it is almost inevitable that I have this one pegged correctly.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Melville thinks the Cards got fleeced on the Donovan trade. We’ll see. Again, he won’t say for whom the Cards should have traded him. Weak.

But let’s remember his prediction for Donny after the 2021 season when he said relying on Donovan (and Noot) as the LH solution to the team's woeful performance against RH pitching … would be utter foolishness.”

It will take years to sort out this trade. I was hoping the Cards would get the pitcher they received plus Arroyo in return. Arroyo has a chance to be at least as good a hitter as Donnie and be hear during 2026, plus they would have a pitcher as well. Instead we received an OF, Thai Peete who has potential, but has struggled to date in pro ball and is likley ETA 2028, if ever. A middling OF prospect and 2 comp picks. It could turn out to be a total haul or just a pitcher with 4 busts.

I understand the Mariners didn't want to trade Arroyo. But with them having Donnie, Emerson and Cole Young, it seemed they had the ability to trade Arroyo and still have a lot of young infield talent. In 4 years we can evaluate this trade.

Do you think they were going to the playoffs with Donny the next two years? And if, by a miracle, they did, would they go anywhere? Hint: the answer is a hard no to both.
So then it's just what they could get back for him while he still had value and 2 yrs. pre-FA. Reality: Donny has a career .772 OPS and he was below-average defensively everywhere except 3b. And if he stayed, one of JJ/Gorman/Herrera would sit.
We can argue about who they COULD have received that would be better than the combo of 3 players and two, 2026 picks at 68 and 72.
But you're right, we won't know much for maybe 4 years.
I just know that I trust Bloom exceedingly more than Melville, and far more than myself or anyone on this board when it comes to having good information on prospects.

The Cards are missing a lot of pieces, so likely no, they do not go anywhere far with Donovan. Having said that, I am not convinced they should have traded him for the package they did, thats all.

How far this team goes in the next 2 years is going to be determined by whether Baez becomes a star and one of Walker or Gorman become an 800 OPS hitter. If both of those things happen, I actually think they have the pitching in house to make the playoffs. If all of those things happen, then yes Donovan could have made a big difference here. They moved on and we will see what happens.

Smart man.
As I have long said, the pitching staff is in better shape than the past many years and the infield (provided The Marmot plays the right guys, which is always a suspect proposition) should be top 4 in the NL.
Even with Bloom ignoring the outfield (other than making it weaker by moving Donovan), there is enough talent to play above .500 ball in 2026.
With that being true, the obvious play was to keep Donovan unless the return was overwhelming.
Instead, they moved him for underwhelming return.
As you say, we shall see.

They received the makings of filling those needs.
The 2 outfielders are further away than what I had envisioned. To me it suggests that a nearer player was either not on the table or the Cards FO was thrilled with. The players received were top round picks with more information on them now than when drafted.
No guarantees of boom or bust. They didn't embarrass themselves in the SSS of a few ST games. Add a pitcher and a couple top round picks it may take some time.

Donovan is a good player. He is still limited in the return we should expect whether or not he was the Cardinals top known trade chip. True that they didn't have to move him. True there were other possible teams to trade him to. At some point I will think Bloom took what was the better return and wait to assess it.

I think that if BD was not in the Cardinals future in which BD also had a say, the sooner a deal was made the better. His average games played the last 3 seasons hasn't been all that good.

We shall cordially agree to disagree.
Strategically, the move was a mistake.
Measured by value, it was a failure.
Bloom will have to be extremely lucky for it to work in STL's favor - and I suspect he knows that better than anyone.
He did far better in the other trades, making this one all the more puzzling.
I am free of bias and free of agenda - granting credit when earned and critique when deserved.
This move is in the rear view mirror, so there is nothing further to dissect at this point in time.
Let's see what happens over the next 2 seasons.
My success rate in predicting the outcome of trades is extremely high and unfortunately it is almost inevitable that I have this one pegged correctly.

I sense a conservative knack to him, with a liberal/risk understanding of the trade. He played it like the stock market, and went risky for big returns. That’s how far behind we got.

He knows he must hit big. Saturated the team, looking for that rabbit.