Pitchers received from Sox

[Goldfan]

So let’s forget about WC and Gray……Apparently they weren’t worth anything even though the Sox who are in the hunt for the division this season have these 2 players in their starting lineup……I guess I’ll just disengage my brain to follow along with the thing that 2 MLB starters for a competitive high payroll team have no value.
So let’s focus on this $28mil…..shouldn’t that buy more than just a hope and prayer in prospect land??
We send a team 2 starting vets and 28mil…….and still can’t get back one healthy legit on the cusp of producing in MLB?

[ClassicO]

Clarke-out till at least June arm surgery

Dobbins-starting season on IL recovering from 2nd ACL surgery

Fitts-control issues sporting career 5.00ERA through ST so far.

Keep in mind Bloom “paid up” for these arms.

To be fair GF he didn't "pay up".

WillyC & S. Gray were ordered salary dumps by BDWJr and Bloom got back five need arms for the major league and minor league pitching staffs.


Clarke/22 yrs old--HUGE upside (Top 10 Red Sox prospect) w/a 99 MPH fastball, known at the time of trade he wouldn't be ready until mid season

Dobbins/26 yrs old---HUGE upside as a starter, threw 5 inning simulated game just awaiting clearance to begin PFP

Fitts/25 yrs old---Should be the Cardinals #4 starter this year

They also got:
Yhoiker Fajardo (RHP): A 19-year-old prospect
&
Blake Aita (RHP): A 22-year-old minor-league pitcher.

+1. They had to go for high-ceiling guys with obvious salary dumps. They weren't getting a quality starter at ANY position for either of these guys. I love Willy C, but he's wasn't even drafted in my Fantasy league (only tells you how Cards fans overvalue his offense).
As Bernie points out, Sonny Gray was NOT good last year and was the biggest payroll dump.

[Goldfan]

Clarke-out till at least June arm surgery

Dobbins-starting season on IL recovering from 2nd ACL surgery

Fitts-control issues sporting career 5.00ERA through ST so far.

Keep in mind Bloom “paid up” for these arms.

To be fair GF he didn't "pay up".

WillyC & S. Gray were ordered salary dumps by BDWJr and Bloom got back five need arms for the major league and minor league pitching staffs.


Clarke/22 yrs old--HUGE upside (Top 10 Red Sox prospect) w/a 99 MPH fastball, known at the time of trade he wouldn't be ready until mid season

Dobbins/26 yrs old---HUGE upside as a starter, threw 5 inning simulated game just awaiting clearance to begin PFP

Fitts/25 yrs old---Should be the Cardinals #4 starter this year

They also got:
Yhoiker Fajardo (RHP): A 19-year-old prospect
&
Blake Aita (RHP): A 22-year-old minor-league pitcher.

+1. They had to go for high-ceiling guys with obvious salary dumps. They weren't getting a quality starter at ANY position for either of these guys. I love Willy C, but he's wasn't even drafted in my Fantasy league (only tells you how Cards fans overvalue his offense).
As Bernie points out, Sonny Gray was NOT good last year and was the biggest payroll dump.

WC Spring stats
.462BA
1.563OPS
Do cards have anyone close to that

[ClassicO]

Clarke-out till at least June arm surgery

Dobbins-starting season on IL recovering from 2nd ACL surgery

Fitts-control issues sporting career 5.00ERA through ST so far.

Keep in mind Bloom “paid up” for these arms.

To be fair GF he didn't "pay up".

WillyC & S. Gray were ordered salary dumps by BDWJr and Bloom got back five need arms for the major league and minor league pitching staffs.


Clarke/22 yrs old--HUGE upside (Top 10 Red Sox prospect) w/a 99 MPH fastball, known at the time of trade he wouldn't be ready until mid season

Dobbins/26 yrs old---HUGE upside as a starter, threw 5 inning simulated game just awaiting clearance to begin PFP

Fitts/25 yrs old---Should be the Cardinals #4 starter this year

They also got:
Yhoiker Fajardo (RHP): A 19-year-old prospect
&
Blake Aita (RHP): A 22-year-old minor-league pitcher.

+1. They had to go for high-ceiling guys with obvious salary dumps. They weren't getting a quality starter at ANY position for either of these guys. I love Willy C, but he's wasn't even drafted in my Fantasy league (only tells you how Cards fans overvalue his offense).
As Bernie points out, Sonny Gray was NOT good last year and was the biggest payroll dump.

WC Spring stats
.462BA
1.563OPS
Do cards have anyone close to that

WOW - I'm convinced these 13 ABs in ST completely changed the trade! They should have received Roman Anthony back!!
Who, pray tell, did you think they could have received back?
Oh, that's right, you only complain and never offer a solution (aka whiner).

[ClassicO]

And on cue from the post about the MLBTR article:

"In all three cases, the primary motivations for the Cardinals were in shedding money and opening playing time for younger players. Gray, Contreras and Arenado all remain solid or better players, but none of them had immense trade value. Gray’s and Arenado’s respective contracts were above market value, in fact, while the remaining two years and $41.5MM on the Contreras deal felt about right for what he’d earn if he were a free agent."

[Goldfan]

Clarke-out till at least June arm surgery

Dobbins-starting season on IL recovering from 2nd ACL surgery

Fitts-control issues sporting career 5.00ERA through ST so far.

Keep in mind Bloom “paid up” for these arms.

To be fair GF he didn't "pay up".

WillyC & S. Gray were ordered salary dumps by BDWJr and Bloom got back five need arms for the major league and minor league pitching staffs.


Clarke/22 yrs old--HUGE upside (Top 10 Red Sox prospect) w/a 99 MPH fastball, known at the time of trade he wouldn't be ready until mid season

Dobbins/26 yrs old---HUGE upside as a starter, threw 5 inning simulated game just awaiting clearance to begin PFP

Fitts/25 yrs old---Should be the Cardinals #4 starter this year

They also got:
Yhoiker Fajardo (RHP): A 19-year-old prospect
&
Blake Aita (RHP): A 22-year-old minor-league pitcher.

+1. They had to go for high-ceiling guys with obvious salary dumps. They weren't getting a quality starter at ANY position for either of these guys. I love Willy C, but he's wasn't even drafted in my Fantasy league (only tells you how Cards fans overvalue his offense).
As Bernie points out, Sonny Gray was NOT good last year and was the biggest payroll dump.

WC Spring stats
.462BA
1.563OPS
Do cards have anyone close to that

WOW - I'm convinced these 13 ABs in ST completely changed the trade! They should have received Roman Anthony back!!
Who, pray tell, did you think they could have received back?
Oh, that's right, you only complain and never offer a solution (aka whiner).

Ya’ll are funny
Last year this time WC was best hitter on team…..1b free him up to have best year, stay healthy because not Catching
He’s traded and Best hitter on team with the HUGE 18mil salary can’t bring back a prospect without 2-3 new ACL, a fresh appendix scar and five fingers on each hand.

[ClassicO]

Clarke-out till at least June arm surgery

Dobbins-starting season on IL recovering from 2nd ACL surgery

Fitts-control issues sporting career 5.00ERA through ST so far.

Keep in mind Bloom “paid up” for these arms.

To be fair GF he didn't "pay up".

WillyC & S. Gray were ordered salary dumps by BDWJr and Bloom got back five need arms for the major league and minor league pitching staffs.


Clarke/22 yrs old--HUGE upside (Top 10 Red Sox prospect) w/a 99 MPH fastball, known at the time of trade he wouldn't be ready until mid season

Dobbins/26 yrs old---HUGE upside as a starter, threw 5 inning simulated game just awaiting clearance to begin PFP

Fitts/25 yrs old---Should be the Cardinals #4 starter this year

They also got:
Yhoiker Fajardo (RHP): A 19-year-old prospect
&
Blake Aita (RHP): A 22-year-old minor-league pitcher.

+1. They had to go for high-ceiling guys with obvious salary dumps. They weren't getting a quality starter at ANY position for either of these guys. I love Willy C, but he's wasn't even drafted in my Fantasy league (only tells you how Cards fans overvalue his offense).
As Bernie points out, Sonny Gray was NOT good last year and was the biggest payroll dump.

WC Spring stats
.462BA
1.563OPS
Do cards have anyone close to that

WOW - I'm convinced these 13 ABs in ST completely changed the trade! They should have received Roman Anthony back!!
Who, pray tell, did you think they could have received back?
Oh, that's right, you only complain and never offer a solution (aka whiner).

Ya’ll are funny
Last year this time WC was best hitter on team…..1b free him up to have best year, stay healthy because not Catching
He’s traded and Best hitter on team with the HUGE 18mil salary can’t bring back a prospect without 2-3 new ACL, a fresh appendix scar and five fingers on each hand.

More complaining. No suggestions on how they could have done better. And BTW - your huge salary point works against you...

[Ozziesfan41]

Clarke-out till at least June arm surgery

Dobbins-starting season on IL recovering from 2nd ACL surgery

Fitts-control issues sporting career 5.00ERA through ST so far.

Keep in mind Bloom “paid up” for these arms.

To be fair GF he didn't "pay up".

WillyC & S. Gray were ordered salary dumps by BDWJr and Bloom got back five need arms for the major league and minor league pitching staffs.


Clarke/22 yrs old--HUGE upside (Top 10 Red Sox prospect) w/a 99 MPH fastball, known at the time of trade he wouldn't be ready until mid season

Dobbins/26 yrs old---HUGE upside as a starter, threw 5 inning simulated game just awaiting clearance to begin PFP

Fitts/25 yrs old---Should be the Cardinals #4 starter this year

They also got:
Yhoiker Fajardo (RHP): A 19-year-old prospect
&
Blake Aita (RHP): A 22-year-old minor-league pitcher.

+1. They had to go for high-ceiling guys with obvious salary dumps. They weren't getting a quality starter at ANY position for either of these guys. I love Willy C, but he's wasn't even drafted in my Fantasy league (only tells you how Cards fans overvalue his offense).
As Bernie points out, Sonny Gray was NOT good last year and was the biggest payroll dump.

WC Spring stats
.462BA
1.563OPS
Do cards have anyone close to that

WOW - I'm convinced these 13 ABs in ST completely changed the trade! They should have received Roman Anthony back!!
Who, pray tell, did you think they could have received back?
Oh, that's right, you only complain and never offer a solution (aka whiner).

Ya’ll are funny
Last year this time WC was best hitter on team…..1b free him up to have best year, stay healthy because not Catching
He’s traded and Best hitter on team with the HUGE 18mil salary can’t bring back a prospect without 2-3 new ACL, a fresh appendix scar and five fingers on each hand.

You’re funny you said he was terrible not worth the contract and one of the worst first baseman in baseball and now you think they should have got more for him lol oh yea of course you do because you have to complain and whine about everything no matter what

[Goldfan]

Clarke-out till at least June arm surgery

Dobbins-starting season on IL recovering from 2nd ACL surgery

Fitts-control issues sporting career 5.00ERA through ST so far.

Keep in mind Bloom “paid up” for these arms.

To be fair GF he didn't "pay up".

WillyC & S. Gray were ordered salary dumps by BDWJr and Bloom got back five need arms for the major league and minor league pitching staffs.


Clarke/22 yrs old--HUGE upside (Top 10 Red Sox prospect) w/a 99 MPH fastball, known at the time of trade he wouldn't be ready until mid season

Dobbins/26 yrs old---HUGE upside as a starter, threw 5 inning simulated game just awaiting clearance to begin PFP

Fitts/25 yrs old---Should be the Cardinals #4 starter this year

They also got:
Yhoiker Fajardo (RHP): A 19-year-old prospect
&
Blake Aita (RHP): A 22-year-old minor-league pitcher.

+1. They had to go for high-ceiling guys with obvious salary dumps. They weren't getting a quality starter at ANY position for either of these guys. I love Willy C, but he's wasn't even drafted in my Fantasy league (only tells you how Cards fans overvalue his offense).
As Bernie points out, Sonny Gray was NOT good last year and was the biggest payroll dump.

WC Spring stats
.462BA
1.563OPS
Do cards have anyone close to that

WOW - I'm convinced these 13 ABs in ST completely changed the trade! They should have received Roman Anthony back!!
Who, pray tell, did you think they could have received back?
Oh, that's right, you only complain and never offer a solution (aka whiner).

Ya’ll are funny
Last year this time WC was best hitter on team…..1b free him up to have best year, stay healthy because not Catching
He’s traded and Best hitter on team with the HUGE 18mil salary can’t bring back a prospect without 2-3 new ACL, a fresh appendix scar and five fingers on each hand.

More complaining. No suggestions on how they could have done better. And BTW - your huge salary point works against you...

And If I had ALL the trade options for every team in MLB I’d be the POBO…..ridiculous challenge. And 18mil isn’t HUGE

[Goldfan]

A review of Clarke’s injury record while still an amateur illustrates the inherent risk he carries and explains why he was a fifth rounder, not a first rounder, in the 2024 draft. Long before he signed with Boston, Clarke was well-traveled, and not just to see doctors.

He had Tommy John surgery in 2019 and was not drafted as a high schooler in Virginia. Clarke was originally recruited by the University of Alabama but was unable to pitch his freshman year of 2022 after surgery for thoracic outlet syndrome. TOS has been career-ending for some. It is caused by compression of nerves/vessels between the collarbone and first rib, leading to arm pain, numbness, weakness and tingling.

From there, Clarke backtracked, transferring to State College of Florida, Manatee-Sarasota and pitched just 3 2/3 innings in 2023. Clarke missed the remainder of his first season at the junior college due to a stress fracture in his shoulder.

In 2024, his only full-ish season to date, Clarke threw 74 2/3 innings over 14 starts. Both were Manatees team highs. He logged a 4.36 ERA, fanned an impressive 13 batters per nine innings and had a walk rate of 4.2 per nine. That was enough to gain the attention of the University of South Carolina, where Clarke committed to transfer prior to the draft.


You know….I take a pass after reviewing this injury plagued arm. And his doesn’t even include the latest surgery. Poor Kid

[Cusecards]

Clarke-out till at least June arm surgery

Dobbins-starting season on IL recovering from 2nd ACL surgery

Fitts-control issues sporting career 5.00ERA through ST so far.

Keep in mind Bloom “paid up” for these arms.

To be fair GF he didn't "pay up".

WillyC & S. Gray were ordered salary dumps by BDWJr and Bloom got back five need arms for the major league and minor league pitching staffs.


Clarke/22 yrs old--HUGE upside (Top 10 Red Sox prospect) w/a 99 MPH fastball, known at the time of trade he wouldn't be ready until mid season

Dobbins/26 yrs old---HUGE upside as a starter, threw 5 inning simulated game just awaiting clearance to begin PFP

Fitts/25 yrs old---Should be the Cardinals #4 starter this year

They also got:
Yhoiker Fajardo (RHP): A 19-year-old prospect
&
Blake Aita (RHP): A 22-year-old minor-league pitcher.

+1. They had to go for high-ceiling guys with obvious salary dumps. They weren't getting a quality starter at ANY position for either of these guys. I love Willy C, but he's wasn't even drafted in my Fantasy league (only tells you how Cards fans overvalue his offense).
As Bernie points out, Sonny Gray was NOT good last year and was the biggest payroll dump.

WC Spring stats
.462BA
1.563OPS
Do cards have anyone close to that

WOW - I'm convinced these 13 ABs in ST completely changed the trade! They should have received Roman Anthony back!!
Who, pray tell, did you think they could have received back?
Oh, that's right, you only complain and never offer a solution (aka whiner).

Ya’ll are funny
Last year this time WC was best hitter on team…..1b free him up to have best year, stay healthy because not Catching
He’s traded and Best hitter on team with the HUGE 18mil salary can’t bring back a prospect without 2-3 new ACL, a fresh appendix scar and five fingers on each hand.

More complaining. No suggestions on how they could have done better. And BTW - your huge salary point works against you...

You have to admit....GF threads are always classics!

[Cranny]

Clarke-out till at least June arm surgery

Dobbins-starting season on IL recovering from 2nd ACL surgery

Fitts-control issues sporting career 5.00ERA through ST so far.

Keep in mind Bloom “paid up” for these arms.

To be fair GF he didn't "pay up".

WillyC & S. Gray were ordered salary dumps by BDWJr and Bloom got back five need arms for the major league and minor league pitching staffs.


Clarke/22 yrs old--HUGE upside (Top 10 Red Sox prospect) w/a 99 MPH fastball, known at the time of trade he wouldn't be ready until mid season

Dobbins/26 yrs old---HUGE upside as a starter, threw 5 inning simulated game just awaiting clearance to begin PFP

Fitts/25 yrs old---Should be the Cardinals #4 starter this year

They also got:
Yhoiker Fajardo (RHP): A 19-year-old prospect
&
Blake Aita (RHP): A 22-year-old minor-league pitcher.

+1. They had to go for high-ceiling guys with obvious salary dumps. They weren't getting a quality starter at ANY position for either of these guys. I love Willy C, but he's wasn't even drafted in my Fantasy league (only tells you how Cards fans overvalue his offense).
As Bernie points out, Sonny Gray was NOT good last year and was the biggest payroll dump.

WC Spring stats
.462BA
1.563OPS
Do cards have anyone close to that

WOW - I'm convinced these 13 ABs in ST completely changed the trade! They should have received Roman Anthony back!!
Who, pray tell, did you think they could have received back?
Oh, that's right, you only complain and never offer a solution (aka whiner).

Ya’ll are funny
Last year this time WC was best hitter on team…..1b free him up to have best year, stay healthy because not Catching
He’s traded and Best hitter on team with the HUGE 18mil salary can’t bring back a prospect without 2-3 new ACL, a fresh appendix scar and five fingers on each hand.

More complaining. No suggestions on how they could have done better. And BTW - your huge salary point works against you...

You have to admit....GF threads are always classics!

Classics as far as “woe are we as Cardinal fans?”

[AZ_Cardsfan]

Some people just look at the on field performance and ignore the contract status of players. Winn is a very good player. But his trade value would be negative if he was signed to a 10 year $400,000,000 contract. They would have to send about $300,000,000 with him to get a buyer. Which is why Boston didn't also send back MLB top ten ranked prospects in return.

So yes Contreras and Gray etc are players good enough to play on a contender. But due to their contract status money had to be added to get another team to take them on. Lots of players in the latter half of contracts are net negatives versus what the team could sign on the open market for their price.

The players we got back in many of these trades were risky. Bloom has shown a strategy different from Mo in that he takes high risk high return chances. If he hits on a few he will look a genius in 2028 when STL is again a serious contender. If none hit bummer. We'll see.

[riff raff]

Some people just look at the on field performance and ignore the contract status of players. Winn is a very good player. But his trade value would be negative if he was signed to a 10 year $400,000,000 contract. They would have to send about $300,000,000 with him to get a buyer. Which is why Boston didn't also send back MLB top ten ranked prospects in return.

So yes Contreras and Gray etc are players good enough to play on a contender. But due to their contract status money had to be added to get another team to take them on. Lots of players in the latter half of contracts are net negatives versus what the team could sign on the open market for their price.

The players we got back in many of these trades were risky. Bloom has shown a strategy different from Mo in that he takes high risk high return chances. If he hits on a few he will look a genius in 2028 when STL is again a serious contender. If none hit bummer. We'll see.

That's all basically true. IMO money is killing baseball.
Eventually people will have had enough and quit spending their money on it.
While I still follow and root for my Birds, I spend very little money on them.

[Goldfan]

Some people just look at the on field performance and ignore the contract status of players. Winn is a very good player. But his trade value would be negative if he was signed to a 10 year $400,000,000 contract. They would have to send about $300,000,000 with him to get a buyer. Which is why Boston didn't also send back MLB top ten ranked prospects in return.

So yes Contreras and Gray etc are players good enough to play on a contender. But due to their contract status money had to be added to get another team to take them on. Lots of players in the latter half of contracts are net negatives versus what the team could sign on the open market for their price.

The players we got back in many of these trades were risky. Bloom has shown a strategy different from Mo in that he takes high risk high return chances. If he hits on a few he will look a genius in 2028 when STL is again a serious contender. If none hit bummer. We'll see.

Arenado’s contract was negative and out of whack……WC and Gray were short term and fairly valued.

[renostl]

Some people just look at the on field performance and ignore the contract status of players. Winn is a very good player. But his trade value would be negative if he was signed to a 10 year $400,000,000 contract. They would have to send about $300,000,000 with him to get a buyer. Which is why Boston didn't also send back MLB top ten ranked prospects in return.

So yes Contreras and Gray etc are players good enough to play on a contender. But due to their contract status money had to be added to get another team to take them on. Lots of players in the latter half of contracts are net negatives versus what the team could sign on the open market for their price.

The players we got back in many of these trades were risky. Bloom has shown a strategy different from Mo in that he takes high risk high return chances. If he hits on a few he will look a genius in 2028 when STL is again a serious contender. If none hit bummer. We'll see.

Arenado’s contract was negative and out of whack……WC and Gray were short term and fairly valued.

The Cardinals actually received more current MLB players than expected in
the trades of SG and WC in Dobbins and Fitts. IF one hits it's good.
It is just not how the majority of trades are done currently. It's future players for
MLB players or the reverse.
Fajardo might have as much upside as any Cardinal prospect. Aita
seems solid.
The NTC's on both players almost guaranteed that they go to a contender and that
the return would not be from the MLB roster unless that player had a low ceiling.
You're aware of SG's upside, we've agreed in the past on him. WC averaged 115 games
for the Cardinals and never hit over 20 HR's. Not a very high bar for a first baseman.
Burleson can match that.