The Binnington effect on our Trade Bait

[Bubble4427]

Good lord.
Now you all are blaming the goalie for potential trades not involving said goalie being affected?

I know Blues fans have a VERY LONG history of blaming the goalie for everything wrong with the team but this is a new one.

We shall see what value we get in return for the players that we sell. Then, let's talk.

What value SHOULD the Blues get back for players you want gone?
Not what you think they will get back, but what you believe would be a good deal for the Blues? I'm asking your honest opinion before the deals are made...otherwise, no matter what the deal is, you will say we never got fair value.

Schenn?
Faulk?
Binner?
Thomas?
Kyrou?

You answer that question first, and I'll do the same. And then let's see who is satisfied vs not-satisfied.

I'll go first, because you are slow.

Given their history and current year record, this is what I would expect for each player in isolation.

Schenn? Potential Middle 6 prospect + high 2nd-Rounder (1st round pick and a mid level prospect - I believe we can get more than what you believe)
Faulk? Potential Top4 RHD prospect + low 1st-Rounder (we'll get a low 1st rounder and maybe a 3rd...No way we are getting a top 4 prospect...IMO you overvalue the potential return)
Binner? Potential goalie 1A prospect + 2nd-Rounder (Binner will get back a 3rd rounder..maybe a 2nd but that is all. Goalies do not have that much value in the league. You're on crack if you think Army can do better)
Thomas? Potential Line1 22-24 age prospect + mid 1st-Rounder + 2nd-Rounder (Thomas will net you very close to the return that Hughes fetched. Hughes is the better player, but the team only is getting him for a season and a half. The team getting Thomas gets him for 5 more years at a bargain price. I settle for nothing less than a stud prospect (Hage) and at least a 1st and a 2nd rounder)
Kyrou? Potential TOP 6 22-24 age prospect + mid 1st-Rounder + 2nd-Rounder. Saying all that, I'd just asssume keep him unless someone offers something stupid. Your offer is not enough.)

However, this is what really matters in the end.
Essentially, I expect Army to pull a ROR<=>Tage Thompson deal in reverse for Thomas and Kyrou and Faulk. Anything less than that is a big fail. Getting 6 bodies is not going to make me happy. I want at least 1 "Tage Thompson" talent out of it for each of those guys.
(You can get that for Thomas....you won't for the other 2. You should be more realistic. I'm sure Army is holding out for the best deal possible...but it's also no guarrantee that a great deal exists...which doesn't make it Army's fault.)

Or putting it another way....
I DON'T WANT Barbashev for 6 Deans.
I DON'T WANT to have to search Wikipedia to remember who we got for our best players.
(Barbashev wanted 5 million a year during a time that the cap was frozen....not much value there. I liked Barby, but there was no way I was going to pay the guy 5 million under those financial circumstances. Looking back at it, I would definately rather gotten more than Dean...but I'm sure that dno one was offering a 1st round pick or Army would have taken it.)

My thoughts are in Red. Thank you for responding.

[Pierre McGuire]

Easily worth a first and a legit prospect with that showing

Who?

Binner…and I wouldn’t settle for anything less. If we can’t get a first rounder, then he can retire a Blue.

[Bubble4427]

Easily worth a first and a legit prospect with that showing

Who?

Binner…and I wouldn’t settle for anything less. If we can’t get a first rounder, then he can retire a Blue.

Pierre, I truly value your opinion. You know more than 99% of the posters on here, especially prospects.
But the hard truth is that goalies do not get that kind of return in today's NHL...especially goalies with Binner's numbers over the last few years. I like Binner, if we can only get a 3rd, I have no problem keeping him....but if you think he will actually fetch a 1st round pick, I would drive him to the airport.
The Blues searched for 20 years to get a quality STANLEY CUP QUALITY goalie....so I realize they don't grow on trees. But to think the Blues are close and can win it all next season is "miracle best case scenario thinking". Again, I have no problem keeping him...but they will never get a 1st for him IMO.

[Pierre McGuire]

Easily worth a first and a legit prospect with that showing

Who?

Binner…and I wouldn’t settle for anything less. If we can’t get a first rounder, then he can retire a Blue.

Pierre, I truly value your opinion. You know more than 99% of the posters on here, especially prospects.
But the hard truth is that goalies do not get that kind of return in today's NHL...especially goalies with Binner's numbers over the last few years. I like Binner, if we can only get a 3rd, I have no problem keeping him....but if you think he will actually fetch a 1st round pick, I would drive him to the airport.
The Blues searched for 20 years to get a quality STANLEY CUP QUALITY goalie....so I realize they don't grow on trees. But to think the Blues are close and can win it all next season is "miracle best case scenario thinking". Again, I have no problem keeping him...but they will never get a 1st for him IMO.

He has a pedigree that nobody else on the market has and a couple of teams that are on the rise could use a goalie. The price is high…I ain’t moving off of a first..it’s a demand for a Stanley cup , 4 nations. And possible Olympic gold medalist

[Frank Underwood]

Easily worth a first and a legit prospect with that showing

Who?

Binner…and I wouldn’t settle for anything less. If we can’t get a first rounder, then he can retire a Blue.

Pierre, I truly value your opinion. You know more than 99% of the posters on here, especially prospects.
But the hard truth is that goalies do not get that kind of return in today's NHL...especially goalies with Binner's numbers over the last few years. I like Binner, if we can only get a 3rd, I have no problem keeping him....but if you think he will actually fetch a 1st round pick, I would drive him to the airport.
The Blues searched for 20 years to get a quality STANLEY CUP QUALITY goalie....so I realize they don't grow on trees. But to think the Blues are close and can win it all next season is "miracle best case scenario thinking". Again, I have no problem keeping him...but they will never get a 1st for him IMO.

He has a pedigree that nobody else on the market has and a couple of teams that are on the rise could use a goalie. The price is high…I ain’t moving off of a first..it’s a demand for a Stanley cup , 4 nations. And possible Olympic gold medalist

No doubt. If teams aren’t willing to meet that price, screw them, you keep him. A Binnington that is “on” in the playoffs could definitely put a team like Edmonton over the top. I can’t believe they want to waste another year of McDavid’s and Draisaitl’s prime by going into the playoffs with a clown like Jarry.

[a smell of green grass]

Good lord.
Now you all are blaming the goalie for potential trades not involving said goalie being affected?

I know Blues fans have a VERY LONG history of blaming the goalie for everything wrong with the team but this is a new one.

We shall see what value we get in return for the players that we sell. Then, let's talk.

What value SHOULD the Blues get back for players you want gone?
Not what you think they will get back, but what you believe would be a good deal for the Blues? I'm asking your honest opinion before the deals are made...otherwise, no matter what the deal is, you will say we never got fair value.

Schenn?
Faulk?
Binner?
Thomas?
Kyrou?

You answer that question first, and I'll do the same. And then let's see who is satisfied vs not-satisfied.

I'll go first, because you are slow.

Given their history and current year record, this is what I would expect for each player in isolation.

Schenn? Potential Middle 6 prospect + high 2nd-Rounder (1st round pick and a mid level prospect - I believe we can get more than what you believe)
Faulk? Potential Top4 RHD prospect + low 1st-Rounder (we'll get a low 1st rounder and maybe a 3rd...No way we are getting a top 4 prospect...IMO you overvalue the potential return)
Binner? Potential goalie 1A prospect + 2nd-Rounder (Binner will get back a 3rd rounder..maybe a 2nd but that is all. Goalies do not have that much value in the league. You're on crack if you think Army can do better)
Thomas? Potential Line1 22-24 age prospect + mid 1st-Rounder + 2nd-Rounder (Thomas will net you very close to the return that Hughes fetched. Hughes is the better player, but the team only is getting him for a season and a half. The team getting Thomas gets him for 5 more years at a bargain price. I settle for nothing less than a stud prospect (Hage) and at least a 1st and a 2nd rounder)
Kyrou? Potential TOP 6 22-24 age prospect + mid 1st-Rounder + 2nd-Rounder. Saying all that, I'd just asssume keep him unless someone offers something stupid. Your offer is not enough.)

However, this is what really matters in the end.
Essentially, I expect Army to pull a ROR<=>Tage Thompson deal in reverse for Thomas and Kyrou and Faulk. Anything less than that is a big fail. Getting 6 bodies is not going to make me happy. I want at least 1 "Tage Thompson" talent out of it for each of those guys.
(You can get that for Thomas....you won't for the other 2. You should be more realistic. I'm sure Army is holding out for the best deal possible...but it's also no guarrantee that a great deal exists...which doesn't make it Army's fault.)

Or putting it another way....
I DON'T WANT Barbashev for 6 Deans.
I DON'T WANT to have to search Wikipedia to remember who we got for our best players.
(Barbashev wanted 5 million a year during a time that the cap was frozen....not much value there. I liked Barby, but there was no way I was going to pay the guy 5 million under those financial circumstances. Looking back at it, I would definately rather gotten more than Dean...but I'm sure that dno one was offering a 1st round pick or Army would have taken it.)

My thoughts are in Red. Thank you for responding.

Yes. Good discussion.

I wish I thought differently, but I don't trust Army's draft scouting of elite talent. In the end, what matters is the NET of what Army accomplishes in the SELL OFF. If we get 4 #1 picks and somebody else gets the Celebrini, it's a large fail.

I'd like to hear more about what Army is doing to make sure that he finds the truly elite talent. His draft methods should be different this year than in year's past.

[noted]

are you going to be quiet when binnington tears it up

No - he’ll just move the goal post and complain about something else.

There’s do types of people in the world. Those that complain about their situation. And those that do something to fix it. This clown doesn’t do anything but complain.

[noted]

are you going to be quiet when binnington tears it up

No - he'll just move the goal post and complain about something else like he does every time.

There's 2 types of people in the world, those that complain about their situation, and those that do something to fix it.

All this clown does is complain.

[Cahokanut]

are you going to be quiet when binnington tears it up

No - he’ll just move the goal post and complain about something else.

There’s do types of people in the world. Those that complain about their situation. And those that do something to fix it. This clown doesn’t do anything but complain.

I think there's a group bigger then both you mention. Thats those that find another to blame.

On the forum. We have no one(0)who are all Blues positive. We have(3-6) who are always Army positive. We have some(5-10)who swings at certain players. We have some swinging at the coach(7-15) We have those who complain about the team (3-6 posters) and The e have those that complain about other posters (15-30 of them)

We have all kinds and a healthy forum. But only one group that can't keep it to hockey.

[DoneLurking]

Good lord.
Now you all are blaming the goalie for potential trades not involving said goalie being affected?

I know Blues fans have a VERY LONG history of blaming the goalie for everything wrong with the team but this is a new one.

We shall see what value we get in return for the players that we sell. Then, let's talk.

What value SHOULD the Blues get back for players you want gone?
Not what you think they will get back, but what you believe would be a good deal for the Blues? I'm asking your honest opinion before the deals are made...otherwise, no matter what the deal is, you will say we never got fair value.

Schenn?
Faulk?
Binner?
Thomas?
Kyrou?

You answer that question first, and I'll do the same. And then let's see who is satisfied vs not-satisfied.

I'll go first, because you are slow.

Given their history and current year record, this is what I would expect for each player in isolation.

Schenn? Potential Middle 6 prospect + high 2nd-Rounder (1st round pick and a mid level prospect - I believe we can get more than what you believe)
Faulk? Potential Top4 RHD prospect + low 1st-Rounder (we'll get a low 1st rounder and maybe a 3rd...No way we are getting a top 4 prospect...IMO you overvalue the potential return)
Binner? Potential goalie 1A prospect + 2nd-Rounder (Binner will get back a 3rd rounder..maybe a 2nd but that is all. Goalies do not have that much value in the league. You're on crack if you think Army can do better)
Thomas? Potential Line1 22-24 age prospect + mid 1st-Rounder + 2nd-Rounder (Thomas will net you very close to the return that Hughes fetched. Hughes is the better player, but the team only is getting him for a season and a half. The team getting Thomas gets him for 5 more years at a bargain price. I settle for nothing less than a stud prospect (Hage) and at least a 1st and a 2nd rounder)
Kyrou? Potential TOP 6 22-24 age prospect + mid 1st-Rounder + 2nd-Rounder. Saying all that, I'd just asssume keep him unless someone offers something stupid. Your offer is not enough.)

However, this is what really matters in the end.
Essentially, I expect Army to pull a ROR<=>Tage Thompson deal in reverse for Thomas and Kyrou and Faulk. Anything less than that is a big fail. Getting 6 bodies is not going to make me happy. I want at least 1 "Tage Thompson" talent out of it for each of those guys.
(You can get that for Thomas....you won't for the other 2. You should be more realistic. I'm sure Army is holding out for the best deal possible...but it's also no guarrantee that a great deal exists...which doesn't make it Army's fault.)

Or putting it another way....
I DON'T WANT Barbashev for 6 Deans.
I DON'T WANT to have to search Wikipedia to remember who we got for our best players.
(Barbashev wanted 5 million a year during a time that the cap was frozen....not much value there. I liked Barby, but there was no way I was going to pay the guy 5 million under those financial circumstances. Looking back at it, I would definately rather gotten more than Dean...but I'm sure that dno one was offering a 1st round pick or Army would have taken it.)

My thoughts are in Red. Thank you for responding.

Yes. Good discussion.

I wish I thought differently, but I don't trust Army's draft scouting of elite talent. In the end, what matters is the NET of what Army accomplishes in the SELL OFF. If we get 4 #1 picks and somebody else gets the Celebrini, it's a large fail.

I'd like to hear more about what Army is doing to make sure that he finds the truly elite talent. His draft methods should be different this year than in year's past.

You’re right. He should stop looking for the best player available and stop drafting guys who outperform most players taken before them.

[a smell of green grass]

Good lord.
Now you all are blaming the goalie for potential trades not involving said goalie being affected?

I know Blues fans have a VERY LONG history of blaming the goalie for everything wrong with the team but this is a new one.

We shall see what value we get in return for the players that we sell. Then, let's talk.

What value SHOULD the Blues get back for players you want gone?
Not what you think they will get back, but what you believe would be a good deal for the Blues? I'm asking your honest opinion before the deals are made...otherwise, no matter what the deal is, you will say we never got fair value.

Schenn?
Faulk?
Binner?
Thomas?
Kyrou?

You answer that question first, and I'll do the same. And then let's see who is satisfied vs not-satisfied.

I'll go first, because you are slow.

Given their history and current year record, this is what I would expect for each player in isolation.

Schenn? Potential Middle 6 prospect + high 2nd-Rounder (1st round pick and a mid level prospect - I believe we can get more than what you believe)
Faulk? Potential Top4 RHD prospect + low 1st-Rounder (we'll get a low 1st rounder and maybe a 3rd...No way we are getting a top 4 prospect...IMO you overvalue the potential return)
Binner? Potential goalie 1A prospect + 2nd-Rounder (Binner will get back a 3rd rounder..maybe a 2nd but that is all. Goalies do not have that much value in the league. You're on crack if you think Army can do better)
Thomas? Potential Line1 22-24 age prospect + mid 1st-Rounder + 2nd-Rounder (Thomas will net you very close to the return that Hughes fetched. Hughes is the better player, but the team only is getting him for a season and a half. The team getting Thomas gets him for 5 more years at a bargain price. I settle for nothing less than a stud prospect (Hage) and at least a 1st and a 2nd rounder)
Kyrou? Potential TOP 6 22-24 age prospect + mid 1st-Rounder + 2nd-Rounder. Saying all that, I'd just asssume keep him unless someone offers something stupid. Your offer is not enough.)

However, this is what really matters in the end.
Essentially, I expect Army to pull a ROR<=>Tage Thompson deal in reverse for Thomas and Kyrou and Faulk. Anything less than that is a big fail. Getting 6 bodies is not going to make me happy. I want at least 1 "Tage Thompson" talent out of it for each of those guys.
(You can get that for Thomas....you won't for the other 2. You should be more realistic. I'm sure Army is holding out for the best deal possible...but it's also no guarrantee that a great deal exists...which doesn't make it Army's fault.)

Or putting it another way....
I DON'T WANT Barbashev for 6 Deans.
I DON'T WANT to have to search Wikipedia to remember who we got for our best players.
(Barbashev wanted 5 million a year during a time that the cap was frozen....not much value there. I liked Barby, but there was no way I was going to pay the guy 5 million under those financial circumstances. Looking back at it, I would definately rather gotten more than Dean...but I'm sure that dno one was offering a 1st round pick or Army would have taken it.)

My thoughts are in Red. Thank you for responding.

Yes. Good discussion.

I wish I thought differently, but I don't trust Army's draft scouting of elite talent. In the end, what matters is the NET of what Army accomplishes in the SELL OFF. If we get 4 #1 picks and somebody else gets the Celebrini, it's a large fail.

I'd like to hear more about what Army is doing to make sure that he finds the truly elite talent. His draft methods should be different this year than in year's past.

You’re right. He should stop looking for the best player available and stop drafting guys who outperform most players taken before them.

He has to draft an elite 1st line player that is better than what most teams have. If you haven't noticed, we don't have any of those in the lineup.

[Bubble4427]

Good lord.
Now you all are blaming the goalie for potential trades not involving said goalie being affected?

I know Blues fans have a VERY LONG history of blaming the goalie for everything wrong with the team but this is a new one.

We shall see what value we get in return for the players that we sell. Then, let's talk.

What value SHOULD the Blues get back for players you want gone?
Not what you think they will get back, but what you believe would be a good deal for the Blues? I'm asking your honest opinion before the deals are made...otherwise, no matter what the deal is, you will say we never got fair value.

Schenn?
Faulk?
Binner?
Thomas?
Kyrou?

You answer that question first, and I'll do the same. And then let's see who is satisfied vs not-satisfied.

I'll go first, because you are slow.

Given their history and current year record, this is what I would expect for each player in isolation.

Schenn? Potential Middle 6 prospect + high 2nd-Rounder (1st round pick and a mid level prospect - I believe we can get more than what you believe)
Faulk? Potential Top4 RHD prospect + low 1st-Rounder (we'll get a low 1st rounder and maybe a 3rd...No way we are getting a top 4 prospect...IMO you overvalue the potential return)
Binner? Potential goalie 1A prospect + 2nd-Rounder (Binner will get back a 3rd rounder..maybe a 2nd but that is all. Goalies do not have that much value in the league. You're on crack if you think Army can do better)
Thomas? Potential Line1 22-24 age prospect + mid 1st-Rounder + 2nd-Rounder (Thomas will net you very close to the return that Hughes fetched. Hughes is the better player, but the team only is getting him for a season and a half. The team getting Thomas gets him for 5 more years at a bargain price. I settle for nothing less than a stud prospect (Hage) and at least a 1st and a 2nd rounder)
Kyrou? Potential TOP 6 22-24 age prospect + mid 1st-Rounder + 2nd-Rounder. Saying all that, I'd just asssume keep him unless someone offers something stupid. Your offer is not enough.)

However, this is what really matters in the end.
Essentially, I expect Army to pull a ROR<=>Tage Thompson deal in reverse for Thomas and Kyrou and Faulk. Anything less than that is a big fail. Getting 6 bodies is not going to make me happy. I want at least 1 "Tage Thompson" talent out of it for each of those guys.
(You can get that for Thomas....you won't for the other 2. You should be more realistic. I'm sure Army is holding out for the best deal possible...but it's also no guarrantee that a great deal exists...which doesn't make it Army's fault.)

Or putting it another way....
I DON'T WANT Barbashev for 6 Deans.
I DON'T WANT to have to search Wikipedia to remember who we got for our best players.
(Barbashev wanted 5 million a year during a time that the cap was frozen....not much value there. I liked Barby, but there was no way I was going to pay the guy 5 million under those financial circumstances. Looking back at it, I would definately rather gotten more than Dean...but I'm sure that dno one was offering a 1st round pick or Army would have taken it.)

My thoughts are in Red. Thank you for responding.

Yes. Good discussion.

I wish I thought differently, but I don't trust Army's draft scouting of elite talent. In the end, what matters is the NET of what Army accomplishes in the SELL OFF. If we get 4 #1 picks and somebody else gets the Celebrini, it's a large fail.

I'd like to hear more about what Army is doing to make sure that he finds the truly elite talent. His draft methods should be different this year than in year's past.

You’re right. He should stop looking for the best player available and stop drafting guys who outperform most players taken before them.

He has to draft an elite 1st line player that is better than what most teams have. If you haven't noticed, we don't have any of those in the lineup.

There is nothing at all that shows that Army doesn’t draft well. Nothing.

[Jeff Goldblum]

I hope when I'm an old coot I get to spend my days ranting and raving about the same topic every single day that I have absolutely no control over. Sounds kinda nice...

[gpe13579]

Trading 50, 72 and 10 the main return of the trade is the cap space.

Any of those three can be replaced by a replacement level player at a much lower cost. Yeah, the big game Binner stuff can be talked about as a reason to keep him but the Blues don't appear to be headed for many big games in the next couple of years.

Get what you can for those three of course, but the cap space is valuable. You would essentially end up getting whatever the trade return is AND whatever you get with the freed up dollars.

Now, if they decide to move 25 then you have to get value. As many things as he does poorly, he can score goals on his own and that cannot be replaced by a replacement level guy. Not advocating one way or the other on 25 but IF they do move him the return has to be tangible.

[ScalesofJustice]

Binny was very good. One game in and he looked great.

[Bubble4427]

Trading 50, 72 and 10 the main return of the trade is the cap space.

Any of those three can be replaced by a replacement level player at a much lower cost. Yeah, the big game Binner stuff can be talked about as a reason to keep him but the Blues don't appear to be headed for many big games in the next couple of years.

Get what you can for those three of course, but the cap space is valuable. You would essentially end up getting whatever the trade return is AND whatever you get with the freed up dollars.

Now, if they decide to move 25 then you have to get value. As many things as he does poorly, he can score goals on his own and that cannot be replaced by a replacement level guy. Not advocating one way or the other on 25 but IF they do move him the return has to be tangible.

You’re wrong. Those guys can’t be replaced with just replacement level players. That means they have NO value at all.
Army can get assets for each of those players….which proves they have value. Just because you don’t like a player, doesn’t mean the rest of the league agrees.