Tanking Cardinals to move them?

[Bomber1]

It’s not tanking. It’s rebuilding

It is tanking and I won't argue with about it. We obviously see differently. When you cut payroll drastically and don't replace the talent it's called tanking. To date they've only acquired unproven minor league talent. Mostly pitching. It may work out, but it may just as likely blow up in their faces.

Name me a team in the middle of a rebuild that increases payroll…

You can’t. Teams always reduce payroll during a rebuild.

Keep learning…

No matter what you say, there's no reason to gut payroll like they have without replacing some major league talent. No excuse to put that kind of misery on the fans but you go on with your sycophantic billionaire kissing. It suits you.

“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…

You know there are younger vets. Keep learning.

Like?

Do you think all vets are old? Common sense, find some.

Read my post again. I said the cards traded older vets, which they did.

Then you infer that, why should they spend money on vets, which is your way of saying all vets should be shipped out and avoided. Dishonesty is not very becoming.

My post satirically looked at your inabilty to understand what a rebuild is:


“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…


I guess your reading comprehension isn’t great either…

You're just arguing for the sake of argument. Nobody can be that dense. Let me spell it out for you. Follow closely as you can. Every team in baseball is in a constant state of "rebuild". Even the Dodgers are rebuilding to some extent. The difference lies in degree's of rebuild. Teams that tank are rebuilding but to the very fullest degree with no care about the upcoming season and their fan base. This state can and does span years. Not a very nice thing to do to the fans. Those that "rebuild" but with their eye on contention also are much more palatable and this is where most baseball teams fall. They want to "rebuild" and make their dollars effective but they also want to put a product on the field that will draw an audience and have some chance of doing something special. Now, people like you want the full tank job because you think it's a guaranteed way to success. History has shown that there can be some success after long periods of suffering. But even more often it just results in teams perpetually "rebuilding", especially after what high talent they draft become arbitration eligible. They essentially become feeder teams for the higher payroll teams, which is what has been happening for a long time now and could become what the Cardinals identify as. Keep learning.

Take your meds.

[ecleme22]

Name me a team in the middle of a rebuild that increases payroll…

You can’t. Teams always reduce payroll during a rebuild.

Keep learning…

No matter what you say, there's no reason to gut payroll like they have without replacing some major league talent. No excuse to put that kind of misery on the fans but you go on with your sycophantic billionaire kissing. It suits you.

“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…

You know there are younger vets. Keep learning.

Like?

Do you think all vets are old? Common sense, find some.

Read my post again. I said the cards traded older vets, which they did.

Then you infer that, why should they spend money on vets, which is your way of saying all vets should be shipped out and avoided. Dishonesty is not very becoming.

My post satirically looked at your inabilty to understand what a rebuild is:


“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…


I guess your reading comprehension isn’t great either…

You're just arguing for the sake of argument. Nobody can be that dense. Let me spell it out for you. Follow closely as you can. Every team in baseball is in a constant state of "rebuild". Even the Dodgers are rebuilding to some extent. The difference lies in degree's of rebuild. Teams that tank are rebuilding but to the very fullest degree with no care about the upcoming season and their fan base. This state can and does span years. Not a very nice thing to do to the fans. Those that "rebuild" but with their eye on contention also are much more palatable and this is where most baseball teams fall. They want to "rebuild" and make their dollars effective but they also want to put a product on the field that will draw an audience and have some chance of doing something special. Now, people like you want the full tank job because you think it's a guaranteed way to success. History has shown that there can be some success after long periods of suffering. But even more often it just results in teams perpetually "rebuilding", especially after what high talent they draft become arbitration eligible. They essentially become feeder teams for the higher payroll teams, which is what has been happening for a long time now and could become what the Cardinals identify as. Keep learning.

Most successful teams always have their eye to tomorrow.

But sometimes teams need to rebuild/reset. While that happens, there is no point in spending big money on FA.

Every team in a rebuild lowers their payroll during the transition…

So in your eyes it's okay to not try to win. Nobody's saying they can't trade older expensive players for some prospects, but gutting the payroll serves only one purpose, to keep money in the Billionaire owners pocket. That's just wrong and to be honest that's one of the worst things about capitalism and America right now. A lot of have nots and a few haves. This is why I don't begrudge a ball player his millions. Because a millionaire could fall out of a billionaires pocket of every day and he'd still be a billionaire a year later..

Yes, for example, a rebuilding team and the current Mets have two different offseasons.

And every rebuild is a combination of 1) trading vets, 2) accumulating a lot of young talent and 3) giving young guys a long leash.

This translates to a temporary lowering of the payroll.

Don’t worry…it’s not some billionaire conspiracy.

Keep learning…

[CCard]

No matter what you say, there's no reason to gut payroll like they have without replacing some major league talent. No excuse to put that kind of misery on the fans but you go on with your sycophantic billionaire kissing. It suits you.

“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…

You know there are younger vets. Keep learning.

Like?

Do you think all vets are old? Common sense, find some.

Read my post again. I said the cards traded older vets, which they did.

Then you infer that, why should they spend money on vets, which is your way of saying all vets should be shipped out and avoided. Dishonesty is not very becoming.

My post satirically looked at your inabilty to understand what a rebuild is:


“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…


I guess your reading comprehension isn’t great either…

You're just arguing for the sake of argument. Nobody can be that dense. Let me spell it out for you. Follow closely as you can. Every team in baseball is in a constant state of "rebuild". Even the Dodgers are rebuilding to some extent. The difference lies in degree's of rebuild. Teams that tank are rebuilding but to the very fullest degree with no care about the upcoming season and their fan base. This state can and does span years. Not a very nice thing to do to the fans. Those that "rebuild" but with their eye on contention also are much more palatable and this is where most baseball teams fall. They want to "rebuild" and make their dollars effective but they also want to put a product on the field that will draw an audience and have some chance of doing something special. Now, people like you want the full tank job because you think it's a guaranteed way to success. History has shown that there can be some success after long periods of suffering. But even more often it just results in teams perpetually "rebuilding", especially after what high talent they draft become arbitration eligible. They essentially become feeder teams for the higher payroll teams, which is what has been happening for a long time now and could become what the Cardinals identify as. Keep learning.

Most successful teams always have their eye to tomorrow.

But sometimes teams need to rebuild/reset. While that happens, there is no point in spending big money on FA.

Every team in a rebuild lowers their payroll during the transition…

So in your eyes it's okay to not try to win. Nobody's saying they can't trade older expensive players for some prospects, but gutting the payroll serves only one purpose, to keep money in the Billionaire owners pocket. That's just wrong and to be honest that's one of the worst things about capitalism and America right now. A lot of have nots and a few haves. This is why I don't begrudge a ball player his millions. Because a millionaire could fall out of a billionaires pocket of every day and he'd still be a billionaire a year later..

Yes, for example, a rebuilding team and the current Mets have two different offseasons.

And every rebuild is a combination of 1) trading vets, 2) accumulating a lot of young talent and 3) giving young guys a long leash.

This translates to a temporary lowering of the payroll.

Don’t worry…it’s not some billionaire conspiracy.

Keep learning…

You still haven't answered one simple question. Why? Why does payroll have to be gutted to rebuild the minor leagues? And you won't answer because you're a sycophant for the Billionaire owner. There is no good reason to foist this suffering on the fans.

[CCard]

It is tanking and I won't argue with about it. We obviously see differently. When you cut payroll drastically and don't replace the talent it's called tanking. To date they've only acquired unproven minor league talent. Mostly pitching. It may work out, but it may just as likely blow up in their faces.

Name me a team in the middle of a rebuild that increases payroll…

You can’t. Teams always reduce payroll during a rebuild.

Keep learning…

No matter what you say, there's no reason to gut payroll like they have without replacing some major league talent. No excuse to put that kind of misery on the fans but you go on with your sycophantic billionaire kissing. It suits you.

“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…

You know there are younger vets. Keep learning.

Like?

Do you think all vets are old? Common sense, find some.

Read my post again. I said the cards traded older vets, which they did.

Then you infer that, why should they spend money on vets, which is your way of saying all vets should be shipped out and avoided. Dishonesty is not very becoming.

My post satirically looked at your inabilty to understand what a rebuild is:


“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…


I guess your reading comprehension isn’t great either…

You're just arguing for the sake of argument. Nobody can be that dense. Let me spell it out for you. Follow closely as you can. Every team in baseball is in a constant state of "rebuild". Even the Dodgers are rebuilding to some extent. The difference lies in degree's of rebuild. Teams that tank are rebuilding but to the very fullest degree with no care about the upcoming season and their fan base. This state can and does span years. Not a very nice thing to do to the fans. Those that "rebuild" but with their eye on contention also are much more palatable and this is where most baseball teams fall. They want to "rebuild" and make their dollars effective but they also want to put a product on the field that will draw an audience and have some chance of doing something special. Now, people like you want the full tank job because you think it's a guaranteed way to success. History has shown that there can be some success after long periods of suffering. But even more often it just results in teams perpetually "rebuilding", especially after what high talent they draft become arbitration eligible. They essentially become feeder teams for the higher payroll teams, which is what has been happening for a long time now and could become what the Cardinals identify as. Keep learning.

Take your meds.

Snappy comeback. Well thought out and reasoned.

[ecleme22]

“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…

You know there are younger vets. Keep learning.

Like?

Do you think all vets are old? Common sense, find some.

Read my post again. I said the cards traded older vets, which they did.

Then you infer that, why should they spend money on vets, which is your way of saying all vets should be shipped out and avoided. Dishonesty is not very becoming.

My post satirically looked at your inabilty to understand what a rebuild is:


“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…


I guess your reading comprehension isn’t great either…

You're just arguing for the sake of argument. Nobody can be that dense. Let me spell it out for you. Follow closely as you can. Every team in baseball is in a constant state of "rebuild". Even the Dodgers are rebuilding to some extent. The difference lies in degree's of rebuild. Teams that tank are rebuilding but to the very fullest degree with no care about the upcoming season and their fan base. This state can and does span years. Not a very nice thing to do to the fans. Those that "rebuild" but with their eye on contention also are much more palatable and this is where most baseball teams fall. They want to "rebuild" and make their dollars effective but they also want to put a product on the field that will draw an audience and have some chance of doing something special. Now, people like you want the full tank job because you think it's a guaranteed way to success. History has shown that there can be some success after long periods of suffering. But even more often it just results in teams perpetually "rebuilding", especially after what high talent they draft become arbitration eligible. They essentially become feeder teams for the higher payroll teams, which is what has been happening for a long time now and could become what the Cardinals identify as. Keep learning.

Most successful teams always have their eye to tomorrow.

But sometimes teams need to rebuild/reset. While that happens, there is no point in spending big money on FA.

Every team in a rebuild lowers their payroll during the transition…

So in your eyes it's okay to not try to win. Nobody's saying they can't trade older expensive players for some prospects, but gutting the payroll serves only one purpose, to keep money in the Billionaire owners pocket. That's just wrong and to be honest that's one of the worst things about capitalism and America right now. A lot of have nots and a few haves. This is why I don't begrudge a ball player his millions. Because a millionaire could fall out of a billionaires pocket of every day and he'd still be a billionaire a year later..

Yes, for example, a rebuilding team and the current Mets have two different offseasons.

And every rebuild is a combination of 1) trading vets, 2) accumulating a lot of young talent and 3) giving young guys a long leash.

This translates to a temporary lowering of the payroll.

Don’t worry…it’s not some billionaire conspiracy.

Keep learning…

You still haven't answered one simple question. Why? Why does payroll have to be gutted to rebuild the minor leagues? And you won't answer because you're a sycophant for the Billionaire owner. There is no good reason to foist this suffering on the fans.

Payroll isn't 'gutted.'

Payroll decreased as a result of 1) trading vets, 2) accumulating a lot of young talent and 3) giving young guys a long leash. Yes, JJ and Gorman cost less than Arenado and Donovan. Burleson costs less than Contreras. And McGreevy is cheaper than Gray.

Also, I'm sure the fact that the org SENT money to Boston in order to receive better/more prospects in the WC and SG trades is lost on you. As well as signing May to 12mil.

Keep learning...

[CCard]

You know there are younger vets. Keep learning.

Like?

Do you think all vets are old? Common sense, find some.

Read my post again. I said the cards traded older vets, which they did.

Then you infer that, why should they spend money on vets, which is your way of saying all vets should be shipped out and avoided. Dishonesty is not very becoming.

My post satirically looked at your inabilty to understand what a rebuild is:


“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…


I guess your reading comprehension isn’t great either…

You're just arguing for the sake of argument. Nobody can be that dense. Let me spell it out for you. Follow closely as you can. Every team in baseball is in a constant state of "rebuild". Even the Dodgers are rebuilding to some extent. The difference lies in degree's of rebuild. Teams that tank are rebuilding but to the very fullest degree with no care about the upcoming season and their fan base. This state can and does span years. Not a very nice thing to do to the fans. Those that "rebuild" but with their eye on contention also are much more palatable and this is where most baseball teams fall. They want to "rebuild" and make their dollars effective but they also want to put a product on the field that will draw an audience and have some chance of doing something special. Now, people like you want the full tank job because you think it's a guaranteed way to success. History has shown that there can be some success after long periods of suffering. But even more often it just results in teams perpetually "rebuilding", especially after what high talent they draft become arbitration eligible. They essentially become feeder teams for the higher payroll teams, which is what has been happening for a long time now and could become what the Cardinals identify as. Keep learning.

Most successful teams always have their eye to tomorrow.

But sometimes teams need to rebuild/reset. While that happens, there is no point in spending big money on FA.

Every team in a rebuild lowers their payroll during the transition…

So in your eyes it's okay to not try to win. Nobody's saying they can't trade older expensive players for some prospects, but gutting the payroll serves only one purpose, to keep money in the Billionaire owners pocket. That's just wrong and to be honest that's one of the worst things about capitalism and America right now. A lot of have nots and a few haves. This is why I don't begrudge a ball player his millions. Because a millionaire could fall out of a billionaires pocket of every day and he'd still be a billionaire a year later..

Yes, for example, a rebuilding team and the current Mets have two different offseasons.

And every rebuild is a combination of 1) trading vets, 2) accumulating a lot of young talent and 3) giving young guys a long leash.

This translates to a temporary lowering of the payroll.

Don’t worry…it’s not some billionaire conspiracy.

Keep learning…

You still haven't answered one simple question. Why? Why does payroll have to be gutted to rebuild the minor leagues? And you won't answer because you're a sycophant for the Billionaire owner. There is no good reason to foist this suffering on the fans.

Payroll isn't 'gutted.'

Payroll decreased as a result of 1) trading vets, 2) accumulating a lot of young talent and 3) giving young guys a long leash. Yes, JJ and Gorman cost less than Arenado and Donovan. Burleson costs less than Contreras. And McGreevy is cheaper than Gray.

Also, I'm sure the fact that the org SENT money to Boston in order to receive better/more prospects in the WC and SG trades is lost on you. As well as signing May to 12mil.

Keep learning...

All that is just obfuscation on your part. The fact is they gutted payroll. Facts are facts, payroll is under 100 million right now and they still might trade JoJo and Noot. Much of that talent could be replaced through free agency without sacrificing so much on the field talent. You're a sycophant for a billionaire. Keep learning.

[ecleme22]

Like?

Do you think all vets are old? Common sense, find some.

Read my post again. I said the cards traded older vets, which they did.

Then you infer that, why should they spend money on vets, which is your way of saying all vets should be shipped out and avoided. Dishonesty is not very becoming.

My post satirically looked at your inabilty to understand what a rebuild is:


“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…


I guess your reading comprehension isn’t great either…

You're just arguing for the sake of argument. Nobody can be that dense. Let me spell it out for you. Follow closely as you can. Every team in baseball is in a constant state of "rebuild". Even the Dodgers are rebuilding to some extent. The difference lies in degree's of rebuild. Teams that tank are rebuilding but to the very fullest degree with no care about the upcoming season and their fan base. This state can and does span years. Not a very nice thing to do to the fans. Those that "rebuild" but with their eye on contention also are much more palatable and this is where most baseball teams fall. They want to "rebuild" and make their dollars effective but they also want to put a product on the field that will draw an audience and have some chance of doing something special. Now, people like you want the full tank job because you think it's a guaranteed way to success. History has shown that there can be some success after long periods of suffering. But even more often it just results in teams perpetually "rebuilding", especially after what high talent they draft become arbitration eligible. They essentially become feeder teams for the higher payroll teams, which is what has been happening for a long time now and could become what the Cardinals identify as. Keep learning.

Most successful teams always have their eye to tomorrow.

But sometimes teams need to rebuild/reset. While that happens, there is no point in spending big money on FA.

Every team in a rebuild lowers their payroll during the transition…

So in your eyes it's okay to not try to win. Nobody's saying they can't trade older expensive players for some prospects, but gutting the payroll serves only one purpose, to keep money in the Billionaire owners pocket. That's just wrong and to be honest that's one of the worst things about capitalism and America right now. A lot of have nots and a few haves. This is why I don't begrudge a ball player his millions. Because a millionaire could fall out of a billionaires pocket of every day and he'd still be a billionaire a year later..

Yes, for example, a rebuilding team and the current Mets have two different offseasons.

And every rebuild is a combination of 1) trading vets, 2) accumulating a lot of young talent and 3) giving young guys a long leash.

This translates to a temporary lowering of the payroll.

Don’t worry…it’s not some billionaire conspiracy.

Keep learning…

You still haven't answered one simple question. Why? Why does payroll have to be gutted to rebuild the minor leagues? And you won't answer because you're a sycophant for the Billionaire owner. There is no good reason to foist this suffering on the fans.

Payroll isn't 'gutted.'

Payroll decreased as a result of 1) trading vets, 2) accumulating a lot of young talent and 3) giving young guys a long leash. Yes, JJ and Gorman cost less than Arenado and Donovan. Burleson costs less than Contreras. And McGreevy is cheaper than Gray.

Also, I'm sure the fact that the org SENT money to Boston in order to receive better/more prospects in the WC and SG trades is lost on you. As well as signing May to 12mil.

Keep learning...

All that is just obfuscation on your part. The fact is they gutted payroll. Facts are facts, payroll is under 100 million right now and they still might trade JoJo and Noot. Much of that talent could be replaced through free agency without sacrificing so much on the field talent. You're a sycophant for a billionaire. Keep learning.

Just because you're confused doesn't make it confusing.

As I said, they SENT money to Boston in order to receive better/more prospects in the WC and SG trades. And they signed May to 12mil, when Miko probably could've been had for half of that.

As I said 5 or so pages ago, in EVERY rebuild team, payroll decreases because the roster makeup changes. Gray and Miko in 2025 were making wildly more than Liberatore, McGreevy, May, Dobbins, Fitts, Cijntje and Leahy combined. But the Cards arguably have a better rotation now than in 2025. Funny how that works, huh?

Keep learning...

[CCard]

Do you think all vets are old? Common sense, find some.

Read my post again. I said the cards traded older vets, which they did.

Then you infer that, why should they spend money on vets, which is your way of saying all vets should be shipped out and avoided. Dishonesty is not very becoming.

My post satirically looked at your inabilty to understand what a rebuild is:


“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…


I guess your reading comprehension isn’t great either…

You're just arguing for the sake of argument. Nobody can be that dense. Let me spell it out for you. Follow closely as you can. Every team in baseball is in a constant state of "rebuild". Even the Dodgers are rebuilding to some extent. The difference lies in degree's of rebuild. Teams that tank are rebuilding but to the very fullest degree with no care about the upcoming season and their fan base. This state can and does span years. Not a very nice thing to do to the fans. Those that "rebuild" but with their eye on contention also are much more palatable and this is where most baseball teams fall. They want to "rebuild" and make their dollars effective but they also want to put a product on the field that will draw an audience and have some chance of doing something special. Now, people like you want the full tank job because you think it's a guaranteed way to success. History has shown that there can be some success after long periods of suffering. But even more often it just results in teams perpetually "rebuilding", especially after what high talent they draft become arbitration eligible. They essentially become feeder teams for the higher payroll teams, which is what has been happening for a long time now and could become what the Cardinals identify as. Keep learning.

Most successful teams always have their eye to tomorrow.

But sometimes teams need to rebuild/reset. While that happens, there is no point in spending big money on FA.

Every team in a rebuild lowers their payroll during the transition…

So in your eyes it's okay to not try to win. Nobody's saying they can't trade older expensive players for some prospects, but gutting the payroll serves only one purpose, to keep money in the Billionaire owners pocket. That's just wrong and to be honest that's one of the worst things about capitalism and America right now. A lot of have nots and a few haves. This is why I don't begrudge a ball player his millions. Because a millionaire could fall out of a billionaires pocket of every day and he'd still be a billionaire a year later..

Yes, for example, a rebuilding team and the current Mets have two different offseasons.

And every rebuild is a combination of 1) trading vets, 2) accumulating a lot of young talent and 3) giving young guys a long leash.

This translates to a temporary lowering of the payroll.

Don’t worry…it’s not some billionaire conspiracy.

Keep learning…

You still haven't answered one simple question. Why? Why does payroll have to be gutted to rebuild the minor leagues? And you won't answer because you're a sycophant for the Billionaire owner. There is no good reason to foist this suffering on the fans.

Payroll isn't 'gutted.'

Payroll decreased as a result of 1) trading vets, 2) accumulating a lot of young talent and 3) giving young guys a long leash. Yes, JJ and Gorman cost less than Arenado and Donovan. Burleson costs less than Contreras. And McGreevy is cheaper than Gray.

Also, I'm sure the fact that the org SENT money to Boston in order to receive better/more prospects in the WC and SG trades is lost on you. As well as signing May to 12mil.

Keep learning...

All that is just obfuscation on your part. The fact is they gutted payroll. Facts are facts, payroll is under 100 million right now and they still might trade JoJo and Noot. Much of that talent could be replaced through free agency without sacrificing so much on the field talent. You're a sycophant for a billionaire. Keep learning.

Just because you're confused doesn't make it confusing.

As I said, they SENT money to Boston in order to receive better/more prospects in the WC and SG trades. And they signed May to 12mil, when Miko probably could've been had for half of that.

As I said 5 or so pages ago, in EVERY rebuild team, payroll decreases because the roster makeup changes. Gray and Miko in 2025 were making wildly more than Liberatore, McGreevy, May, Dobbins, Fitts, Cijntje and Leahy combined. But the Cards arguably have a better rotation now than in 2025. Funny how that works, huh?

Keep learning...

As for the rotation, we'll see. Hardly anything certain. As for payroll going down in a "rebuild"....well...That depends on what you mean by "rebuild" now doesn't it. As I said many pages ago, every team in baseball rebuilds every year. Some spend more some spend less but not too many cut their payroll nearly in half and don't replace any talent with some free agents. So you apparently can't learn to read and lack some form of common sense. Being the adult in the room, I'll just say we disagree and end this ridiculous back and forth with you. Go troll someone else.

[Cusecards]

Do you think all vets are old? Common sense, find some.

Read my post again. I said the cards traded older vets, which they did.

Then you infer that, why should they spend money on vets, which is your way of saying all vets should be shipped out and avoided. Dishonesty is not very becoming.

My post satirically looked at your inabilty to understand what a rebuild is:


“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…


I guess your reading comprehension isn’t great either…

You're just arguing for the sake of argument. Nobody can be that dense. Let me spell it out for you. Follow closely as you can. Every team in baseball is in a constant state of "rebuild". Even the Dodgers are rebuilding to some extent. The difference lies in degree's of rebuild. Teams that tank are rebuilding but to the very fullest degree with no care about the upcoming season and their fan base. This state can and does span years. Not a very nice thing to do to the fans. Those that "rebuild" but with their eye on contention also are much more palatable and this is where most baseball teams fall. They want to "rebuild" and make their dollars effective but they also want to put a product on the field that will draw an audience and have some chance of doing something special. Now, people like you want the full tank job because you think it's a guaranteed way to success. History has shown that there can be some success after long periods of suffering. But even more often it just results in teams perpetually "rebuilding", especially after what high talent they draft become arbitration eligible. They essentially become feeder teams for the higher payroll teams, which is what has been happening for a long time now and could become what the Cardinals identify as. Keep learning.

Most successful teams always have their eye to tomorrow.

But sometimes teams need to rebuild/reset. While that happens, there is no point in spending big money on FA.

Every team in a rebuild lowers their payroll during the transition…

So in your eyes it's okay to not try to win. Nobody's saying they can't trade older expensive players for some prospects, but gutting the payroll serves only one purpose, to keep money in the Billionaire owners pocket. That's just wrong and to be honest that's one of the worst things about capitalism and America right now. A lot of have nots and a few haves. This is why I don't begrudge a ball player his millions. Because a millionaire could fall out of a billionaires pocket of every day and he'd still be a billionaire a year later..

Yes, for example, a rebuilding team and the current Mets have two different offseasons.

And every rebuild is a combination of 1) trading vets, 2) accumulating a lot of young talent and 3) giving young guys a long leash.

This translates to a temporary lowering of the payroll.

Don’t worry…it’s not some billionaire conspiracy.

Keep learning…

You still haven't answered one simple question. Why? Why does payroll have to be gutted to rebuild the minor leagues? And you won't answer because you're a sycophant for the Billionaire owner. There is no good reason to foist this suffering on the fans.

Payroll isn't 'gutted.'

Payroll decreased as a result of 1) trading vets, 2) accumulating a lot of young talent and 3) giving young guys a long leash. Yes, JJ and Gorman cost less than Arenado and Donovan. Burleson costs less than Contreras. And McGreevy is cheaper than Gray.

Also, I'm sure the fact that the org SENT money to Boston in order to receive better/more prospects in the WC and SG trades is lost on you. As well as signing May to 12mil.

Keep learning...

All that is just obfuscation on your part. The fact is they gutted payroll. Facts are facts, payroll is under 100 million right now and they still might trade JoJo and Noot. Much of that talent could be replaced through free agency without sacrificing so much on the field talent. You're a sycophant for a billionaire. Keep learning.

Just because you're confused doesn't make it confusing.

As I said, they SENT money to Boston in order to receive better/more prospects in the WC and SG trades. And they signed May to 12mil, when Miko probably could've been had for half of that.

As I said 5 or so pages ago, in EVERY rebuild team, payroll decreases because the roster makeup changes. Gray and Miko in 2025 were making wildly more than Liberatore, McGreevy, May, Dobbins, Fitts, Cijntje and Leahy combined. But the Cards arguably have a better rotation now than in 2025. Funny how that works, huh?

Keep learning...

LOL
Don’t you love it when posters.....who know basically nothing about the players received back in trades.....have already written off said players as garbage?
BTW.....I myself know very little about the players received back.
So I have chosen to wait and see on their potential!
Sounds logical right??

[Horseradish]

As to Donovan….

He’s a nice player, but would have been of no value on what is going to be a very weak team in 26 and 27

and then he’s a free agent

Trading him brought prospects that the club will control for many years…

The Cards are not going to Austin…..

Nashville or Charlotte most likely…

Dream on, dummy. Those cities may get teams eventually, but they won't get the Cardinal franchise.

I would agree in a sensible world the Cardinals would never leave StL. But MLB no longer makes decisions based on sense. Its all about money. MLB could charge a city much more for a historic franchise than an expansion team. Greedy owners would salivate. And ol Billy DeWitt would probably be on board if he thought it would get him a few easy bucks.

If it’s all about money, they stay in STL and pressure Dewitt to seek if he and his group aren’t interested in spending appropriately. Moving them to any other city would be dumb.

Would it? DeWitt could pull a Kroenke, point to dwindling attendance, and an inability to secure a good TV deal. MLB sees massive $$ with what they could charge to award an historic team to a thriving city.

He’s invested in BPV. He isn’t pulling a Kroenke. Sorry, this is just a completely different situation and I think it’s foolish to think they would move out of the STL area.

I agree it is highly improbable. But not impossible. He could always build a BPV in a new city. And sell the one in StL.

Yes because without a team at Busch, BPV will always be packed, and all of the apartments will always be rented.
Without the Cardinals BPV would become a ghost town.

There is such a thing as revamping the area. The place draws crowds during events outside of baseball.

Lol, revamp how? Without the Cards there is no reason to go near BPV, period. Who in their right mind would buy BPV and a baseball stadium with no team?

Come on man, you’re letting your emotions cloud your reasoning. I get it, I was a Rams fan and it hurt when they left, but the rams didn’t own their stadium or any surrounding developments, Kroenke intentionally undermined the team and their success in the city to justify a move, and their Rams were originally from LA, one of the largest markets in the world, so the transition was inevitable.

[ecleme22]

Read my post again. I said the cards traded older vets, which they did.

Then you infer that, why should they spend money on vets, which is your way of saying all vets should be shipped out and avoided. Dishonesty is not very becoming.

My post satirically looked at your inabilty to understand what a rebuild is:


“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…


I guess your reading comprehension isn’t great either…

You're just arguing for the sake of argument. Nobody can be that dense. Let me spell it out for you. Follow closely as you can. Every team in baseball is in a constant state of "rebuild". Even the Dodgers are rebuilding to some extent. The difference lies in degree's of rebuild. Teams that tank are rebuilding but to the very fullest degree with no care about the upcoming season and their fan base. This state can and does span years. Not a very nice thing to do to the fans. Those that "rebuild" but with their eye on contention also are much more palatable and this is where most baseball teams fall. They want to "rebuild" and make their dollars effective but they also want to put a product on the field that will draw an audience and have some chance of doing something special. Now, people like you want the full tank job because you think it's a guaranteed way to success. History has shown that there can be some success after long periods of suffering. But even more often it just results in teams perpetually "rebuilding", especially after what high talent they draft become arbitration eligible. They essentially become feeder teams for the higher payroll teams, which is what has been happening for a long time now and could become what the Cardinals identify as. Keep learning.

Most successful teams always have their eye to tomorrow.

But sometimes teams need to rebuild/reset. While that happens, there is no point in spending big money on FA.

Every team in a rebuild lowers their payroll during the transition…

So in your eyes it's okay to not try to win. Nobody's saying they can't trade older expensive players for some prospects, but gutting the payroll serves only one purpose, to keep money in the Billionaire owners pocket. That's just wrong and to be honest that's one of the worst things about capitalism and America right now. A lot of have nots and a few haves. This is why I don't begrudge a ball player his millions. Because a millionaire could fall out of a billionaires pocket of every day and he'd still be a billionaire a year later..

Yes, for example, a rebuilding team and the current Mets have two different offseasons.

And every rebuild is a combination of 1) trading vets, 2) accumulating a lot of young talent and 3) giving young guys a long leash.

This translates to a temporary lowering of the payroll.

Don’t worry…it’s not some billionaire conspiracy.

Keep learning…

You still haven't answered one simple question. Why? Why does payroll have to be gutted to rebuild the minor leagues? And you won't answer because you're a sycophant for the Billionaire owner. There is no good reason to foist this suffering on the fans.

Payroll isn't 'gutted.'

Payroll decreased as a result of 1) trading vets, 2) accumulating a lot of young talent and 3) giving young guys a long leash. Yes, JJ and Gorman cost less than Arenado and Donovan. Burleson costs less than Contreras. And McGreevy is cheaper than Gray.

Also, I'm sure the fact that the org SENT money to Boston in order to receive better/more prospects in the WC and SG trades is lost on you. As well as signing May to 12mil.

Keep learning...

All that is just obfuscation on your part. The fact is they gutted payroll. Facts are facts, payroll is under 100 million right now and they still might trade JoJo and Noot. Much of that talent could be replaced through free agency without sacrificing so much on the field talent. You're a sycophant for a billionaire. Keep learning.

Just because you're confused doesn't make it confusing.

As I said, they SENT money to Boston in order to receive better/more prospects in the WC and SG trades. And they signed May to 12mil, when Miko probably could've been had for half of that.

As I said 5 or so pages ago, in EVERY rebuild team, payroll decreases because the roster makeup changes. Gray and Miko in 2025 were making wildly more than Liberatore, McGreevy, May, Dobbins, Fitts, Cijntje and Leahy combined. But the Cards arguably have a better rotation now than in 2025. Funny how that works, huh?

Keep learning...

As for the rotation, we'll see. Hardly anything certain. As for payroll going down in a "rebuild"....well...That depends on what you mean by "rebuild" now doesn't it. As I said many pages ago, every team in baseball rebuilds every year. Some spend more some spend less but not too many cut their payroll nearly in half and don't replace any talent with some free agents. So you apparently can't learn to read and lack some form of common sense. Being the adult in the room, I'll just say we disagree and end this ridiculous back and forth with you. Go troll someone else.

1. ROTATION: Nothing is certain, not even a 36-year-old Gray. But the MLB and AAA rotations are already deeper than this time last year. And could very likely be better.
2. REBUILD: No, not every team is 'in a rebuild' in the way that we use the term in baseball. Don't be silly. In 2012, the Cubs were in a deep rebuild, while the Cards 'rebuilt' their OF and middle of the order by signing Beltran. Both are wildly different.

Keep learning...

[ecleme22]

Read my post again. I said the cards traded older vets, which they did.

Then you infer that, why should they spend money on vets, which is your way of saying all vets should be shipped out and avoided. Dishonesty is not very becoming.

My post satirically looked at your inabilty to understand what a rebuild is:


“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…


I guess your reading comprehension isn’t great either…

You're just arguing for the sake of argument. Nobody can be that dense. Let me spell it out for you. Follow closely as you can. Every team in baseball is in a constant state of "rebuild". Even the Dodgers are rebuilding to some extent. The difference lies in degree's of rebuild. Teams that tank are rebuilding but to the very fullest degree with no care about the upcoming season and their fan base. This state can and does span years. Not a very nice thing to do to the fans. Those that "rebuild" but with their eye on contention also are much more palatable and this is where most baseball teams fall. They want to "rebuild" and make their dollars effective but they also want to put a product on the field that will draw an audience and have some chance of doing something special. Now, people like you want the full tank job because you think it's a guaranteed way to success. History has shown that there can be some success after long periods of suffering. But even more often it just results in teams perpetually "rebuilding", especially after what high talent they draft become arbitration eligible. They essentially become feeder teams for the higher payroll teams, which is what has been happening for a long time now and could become what the Cardinals identify as. Keep learning.

Most successful teams always have their eye to tomorrow.

But sometimes teams need to rebuild/reset. While that happens, there is no point in spending big money on FA.

Every team in a rebuild lowers their payroll during the transition…

So in your eyes it's okay to not try to win. Nobody's saying they can't trade older expensive players for some prospects, but gutting the payroll serves only one purpose, to keep money in the Billionaire owners pocket. That's just wrong and to be honest that's one of the worst things about capitalism and America right now. A lot of have nots and a few haves. This is why I don't begrudge a ball player his millions. Because a millionaire could fall out of a billionaires pocket of every day and he'd still be a billionaire a year later..

Yes, for example, a rebuilding team and the current Mets have two different offseasons.

And every rebuild is a combination of 1) trading vets, 2) accumulating a lot of young talent and 3) giving young guys a long leash.

This translates to a temporary lowering of the payroll.

Don’t worry…it’s not some billionaire conspiracy.

Keep learning…

You still haven't answered one simple question. Why? Why does payroll have to be gutted to rebuild the minor leagues? And you won't answer because you're a sycophant for the Billionaire owner. There is no good reason to foist this suffering on the fans.

Payroll isn't 'gutted.'

Payroll decreased as a result of 1) trading vets, 2) accumulating a lot of young talent and 3) giving young guys a long leash. Yes, JJ and Gorman cost less than Arenado and Donovan. Burleson costs less than Contreras. And McGreevy is cheaper than Gray.

Also, I'm sure the fact that the org SENT money to Boston in order to receive better/more prospects in the WC and SG trades is lost on you. As well as signing May to 12mil.

Keep learning...

All that is just obfuscation on your part. The fact is they gutted payroll. Facts are facts, payroll is under 100 million right now and they still might trade JoJo and Noot. Much of that talent could be replaced through free agency without sacrificing so much on the field talent. You're a sycophant for a billionaire. Keep learning.

Just because you're confused doesn't make it confusing.

As I said, they SENT money to Boston in order to receive better/more prospects in the WC and SG trades. And they signed May to 12mil, when Miko probably could've been had for half of that.

As I said 5 or so pages ago, in EVERY rebuild team, payroll decreases because the roster makeup changes. Gray and Miko in 2025 were making wildly more than Liberatore, McGreevy, May, Dobbins, Fitts, Cijntje and Leahy combined. But the Cards arguably have a better rotation now than in 2025. Funny how that works, huh?

Keep learning...

LOL
Don’t you love it when posters.....who know basically nothing about the players received back in trades.....have already written off said players as garbage?
BTW.....I myself know very little about the players received back.
So I have chosen to wait and see on their potential!
Sounds logical right??

It’s nuts how some act like we broke up the ‘98 bulls.

[redbirdfan51]

Cardinals are not going anywhere. Get over it.

[Cusecards]

Then you infer that, why should they spend money on vets, which is your way of saying all vets should be shipped out and avoided. Dishonesty is not very becoming.

My post satirically looked at your inabilty to understand what a rebuild is:


“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…


I guess your reading comprehension isn’t great either…

You're just arguing for the sake of argument. Nobody can be that dense. Let me spell it out for you. Follow closely as you can. Every team in baseball is in a constant state of "rebuild". Even the Dodgers are rebuilding to some extent. The difference lies in degree's of rebuild. Teams that tank are rebuilding but to the very fullest degree with no care about the upcoming season and their fan base. This state can and does span years. Not a very nice thing to do to the fans. Those that "rebuild" but with their eye on contention also are much more palatable and this is where most baseball teams fall. They want to "rebuild" and make their dollars effective but they also want to put a product on the field that will draw an audience and have some chance of doing something special. Now, people like you want the full tank job because you think it's a guaranteed way to success. History has shown that there can be some success after long periods of suffering. But even more often it just results in teams perpetually "rebuilding", especially after what high talent they draft become arbitration eligible. They essentially become feeder teams for the higher payroll teams, which is what has been happening for a long time now and could become what the Cardinals identify as. Keep learning.

Most successful teams always have their eye to tomorrow.

But sometimes teams need to rebuild/reset. While that happens, there is no point in spending big money on FA.

Every team in a rebuild lowers their payroll during the transition…

So in your eyes it's okay to not try to win. Nobody's saying they can't trade older expensive players for some prospects, but gutting the payroll serves only one purpose, to keep money in the Billionaire owners pocket. That's just wrong and to be honest that's one of the worst things about capitalism and America right now. A lot of have nots and a few haves. This is why I don't begrudge a ball player his millions. Because a millionaire could fall out of a billionaires pocket of every day and he'd still be a billionaire a year later..

Yes, for example, a rebuilding team and the current Mets have two different offseasons.

And every rebuild is a combination of 1) trading vets, 2) accumulating a lot of young talent and 3) giving young guys a long leash.

This translates to a temporary lowering of the payroll.

Don’t worry…it’s not some billionaire conspiracy.

Keep learning…

You still haven't answered one simple question. Why? Why does payroll have to be gutted to rebuild the minor leagues? And you won't answer because you're a sycophant for the Billionaire owner. There is no good reason to foist this suffering on the fans.

Payroll isn't 'gutted.'

Payroll decreased as a result of 1) trading vets, 2) accumulating a lot of young talent and 3) giving young guys a long leash. Yes, JJ and Gorman cost less than Arenado and Donovan. Burleson costs less than Contreras. And McGreevy is cheaper than Gray.

Also, I'm sure the fact that the org SENT money to Boston in order to receive better/more prospects in the WC and SG trades is lost on you. As well as signing May to 12mil.

Keep learning...

All that is just obfuscation on your part. The fact is they gutted payroll. Facts are facts, payroll is under 100 million right now and they still might trade JoJo and Noot. Much of that talent could be replaced through free agency without sacrificing so much on the field talent. You're a sycophant for a billionaire. Keep learning.

Just because you're confused doesn't make it confusing.

As I said, they SENT money to Boston in order to receive better/more prospects in the WC and SG trades. And they signed May to 12mil, when Miko probably could've been had for half of that.

As I said 5 or so pages ago, in EVERY rebuild team, payroll decreases because the roster makeup changes. Gray and Miko in 2025 were making wildly more than Liberatore, McGreevy, May, Dobbins, Fitts, Cijntje and Leahy combined. But the Cards arguably have a better rotation now than in 2025. Funny how that works, huh?

Keep learning...

LOL
Don’t you love it when posters.....who know basically nothing about the players received back in trades.....have already written off said players as garbage?
BTW.....I myself know very little about the players received back.
So I have chosen to wait and see on their potential!
Sounds logical right??

It’s nuts how some act like we broke up the ‘98 bulls.

Exactly!
Mikolas- time to go!
Gray- still solid but age/$$ out of line.
Arenado- same as Gray.
WC- to me it was 50/50 on him. If he was still catching it might have been different?
Donovan- ok this to me only makes sense if Bloom “got his price!” Most experts seem to think he did well. Time will tell!

Most agree on WHO Bloom dealt.
Most have no clue(myself included) HOW he fared.
Fingers crossed.