Might Ledbetter be darkhorse piece in Donovan deal ?

[Hoosier59]

Depth filler.
Terrible return overall in the Donovan deal.
Not one position player included who will ever likely contribute on a MLB field.

What players do you believe they could have obtained for Donny? It’s one thing to complain; another thing to offer solution. It separates the whiners from those with something to offer.

Mel's so far off base here, the return for Donny was solid and the two picks Bloom got (and added bonus money) made it well above what I expected.

Agreed. The 2 extra draft picks, plus more allotted pool money is a HUGE part of the deal. Not to mention 2, former 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick (I think??). Not bad at all.

It may take several years, but I think we got plus value back.

That pool money is indeed HUGE

Let's hope some high quality kid(s) fall in the draft abd that money can have them landing in our system!

Those bashing the deal(s) are either naive or had unrealistic expectations........Bloom wasn't dealing away prime time Albert!

OR, it could just be that you had too low of expectations!
There was no need to add money to the Contreras deal, other than Boston knew Bloom’s hands were tied and took advantage of that fact! Same with the Donovan deal. Seattle kept all their best prospects and landed the player they wanted all along! Seattle gave up their 4th best pitching prospect and a few maybes.
I’ll say this, DeWitt wishes all Cardinal fans were as easy to please as you are!

[rockondlouie]

Depth filler.
Terrible return overall in the Donovan deal.
Not one position player included who will ever likely contribute on a MLB field.

What players do you believe they could have obtained for Donny? It’s one thing to complain; another thing to offer solution. It separates the whiners from those with something to offer.

Mel's so far off base here, the return for Donny was solid and the two picks Bloom got (and added bonus money) made it well above what I expected.

Agreed. The 2 extra draft picks, plus more allotted pool money is a HUGE part of the deal. Not to mention 2, former 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick (I think??). Not bad at all.

It may take several years, but I think we got plus value back.

That pool money is indeed HUGE

Let's hope some high quality kid(s) fall in the draft abd that money can have them landing in our system!

Those bashing the deal(s) are either naive or had unrealistic expectations........Bloom wasn't dealing away prime time Albert!

OR, it could just be that you had too low of expectations!
There was no need to add money to the Contreras deal, other than Boston knew Bloom’s hands were tied and took advantage of that fact! Same with the Donovan deal. Seattle kept all their best prospects and landed the player they wanted all along! Seattle gave up their 4th best pitching prospect and a few maybes.
I’ll say this, DeWitt wishes all Cardinal fans were as easy to please as you are!

Not me pal, meet and even exceeded my expectations.

The return for Donny was a solid "B+".

Also disagree w/your take on WillyC too.

The $8M brought back pitching prospects Hunter Dobbins, Yhoiker Fajardo, and Blake Aita, another good trade.

You're as off base as mel, birds of a feather.

[HOUCARD]

Depth filler.
Terrible return overall in the Donovan deal.
Not one position player included who will ever likely contribute on a MLB field.

What is this opinion based on other than the fact the predicting a lack of success is right the vast majority of the time with baseball prospects?

STL wanted a 2nd comp pick for Donovan.
Rays wanted Williamson.
Ledbetter was the throw away to help all 3 teams achieve their actual goals.
Depth filler, nothing more.

This doesn’t come close to answering my question and I’m sincerely curious. Why do you think the return was terrible and none of the prospects will contribute at the MLB level?

It was not clear what you were asking.
Why I correctly believe Ledbetter was a throw in depth filler to make the deal work 3 ways, or why I dislike the return for Donovan?
Appreciate you now clarifying that.
Happy to provide the answer - which I have done several times is various threads.
With the Gray/Contreras/May decisions Bloom was thinking short term and long term - and did so very effectively, particularly addressing the starting rotation with that dual track thinking.
With Donovan, he did no such thing - choosing instead to simply bet on an assembly of various long shots of whom none are realistically close to being a significant contribute anytime soon.
And there was zero reason to take that path.
Donovan, likely last opportunity to leverage a key trade piece this off-season, was MORE valuable than Gray or Contreras.
And since Bloom had done nothing to address position player needs, it was imperative that he do so by leveraging Donovan.
Bloom could have - and should have - addressed both long term and short-term question just as he had wisely done in the previous moves.
Inexplicably, he changed course.
Again, my fully informed and accurate assessment and objection is NOT about the specific pieces Bloom acquired (all of which are extreme high risks), but rather that he wasted an opportunity to add a needed position player with immediate opportunity to be part of the 2026 mix.
Strategically, an unforced blunder on Bloom part because he not only whiffed on that specific and necessary item in return - but actually made the situation far worse by making the weakest area of the team even more deficient.
Makes zero sense to add MLB ready pitchers in the prior deals - and then torpedo those moves by making the team behind them worse (outfield is worse, infield is worse, depth is worse.)
And for that he traded an all-star, a gold glove with 2 years of cheap control remaining and multiple future opportunities to deal him if needed?
Incredibly poor strategic thinking on Bloom's part.
Now, as I have stated, opening day is still several weeks away.
Bloom could very well have another move in the works that would change the equation of the Donovan deal.
But as of now, very unlikely this deal will benefit the Cardinals.

I, too, felt Bloom should have come away with a position player at least close to being MLB ready. I posted that Bloom should have demanded either the young outfield slugger, Montes, or Arroyo in a addition to Cijntje. Obviously, Cijntje was the player Bloom was after in the deal.

"Obviously, Cijntje was the player Bloom was after in the deal"
That is correct - everything else was simply a side salad.
Which is exactly why the deal was so strange.
Bloom already added Fitts and Dobbins at the MLB level and already had Doyle, and Mathews, and Clarke, and Franklin, and Hence, and Fajardo, and Henderson, and Mautz among others - and decided the roll the dice on the Donovan deal to add another arm who is at the high end of the risk scale rather than acquire a single position player?
And this while dealing away the best 2 position players they had?
Makes zero sense.
Unless he has another move planned in the coming weeks.

Peete and Ledbetter were sidesald. The 2 top 100 picks and a top 100 prospect are strong returns. Donovan is FA eligible in 2 years. Cards won’t be competitive then. He would walk. I’m a strong “can’t have too much pitching” guy. The two picks and additional $ are big. Cards can use it and the picks to pay over slot for a difficult sign that slips. Any number of things. Cards are seeking to build through the draft. I’ll be patient. Plus, being in Houston, I see what they did here.

[82birds]

Rays' Colton Ledbetter could be a fun addition to the St. Louis Cardinals outfield.

While grades are still filing in from all around the baseball world for all parties involved in the three-team trade, it seems like most everyone around the Cardinals organization is excited for the return, even though it is painful to watch Donovan head out of St. Louis. While switch-pitcher Jurrangelo Cijntje was the headliner coming to the Cardinals from the Mariners, the involvement of the Tampa Bay Rays was interesting, and slightly terrifying for those of us with PTSD in trades involving the Rays. When the full details came out, in addition to Cijntje, outfielder Tai Peete, and two Competitive Balance Round B selections, Tampa included outfielder Colton Ledbetter as a piece heading to St. Louis.

What all parties could agree on in regards to Ledbetter was that the toolsy outfielder can absolutely fly around the bases and in the grass, but the rest of his game is going to need some polishing. Roman pointed out to his ability to make spectacular plays in the outfield and wreak havoc on the bases, while both Farmhands and Aidan said he can make the acrobatic plays but at times needs to make the routine plays look routine. They believe that is going to happen with just more time and practice in center field. Finally, Roman said that Colton is the type of guy that can bring energy and charisma to the field, something that the new-age Cardinals are going to build off of during this transition time.

The 24 year old was in Double AA last year. While his hit tool was rated at just a 20, he did hita respectable .265 with a .715 OPS for Double AA Montgomery Biscuits
He took a step back in the power department from prior years, hitting just seven homers, but he did steal 37 bases and trimmed his strikeout rate while also drawing more walks.

Not saying he has 'everyday' OF but may be a guy to keep an eye on for OF depth piece. Sure sounds like a hustling fast player.

I wish Ledbetter batted RH.
but I'm very intrigued by Joshua Baez.
can't wait to see if he can replicate his AA in AAA

[Melville]

Depth filler.
Terrible return overall in the Donovan deal.
Not one position player included who will ever likely contribute on a MLB field.

What is this opinion based on other than the fact the predicting a lack of success is right the vast majority of the time with baseball prospects?

STL wanted a 2nd comp pick for Donovan.
Rays wanted Williamson.
Ledbetter was the throw away to help all 3 teams achieve their actual goals.
Depth filler, nothing more.

This doesn’t come close to answering my question and I’m sincerely curious. Why do you think the return was terrible and none of the prospects will contribute at the MLB level?

It was not clear what you were asking.
Why I correctly believe Ledbetter was a throw in depth filler to make the deal work 3 ways, or why I dislike the return for Donovan?
Appreciate you now clarifying that.
Happy to provide the answer - which I have done several times is various threads.
With the Gray/Contreras/May decisions Bloom was thinking short term and long term - and did so very effectively, particularly addressing the starting rotation with that dual track thinking.
With Donovan, he did no such thing - choosing instead to simply bet on an assembly of various long shots of whom none are realistically close to being a significant contribute anytime soon.
And there was zero reason to take that path.
Donovan, likely last opportunity to leverage a key trade piece this off-season, was MORE valuable than Gray or Contreras.
And since Bloom had done nothing to address position player needs, it was imperative that he do so by leveraging Donovan.
Bloom could have - and should have - addressed both long term and short-term question just as he had wisely done in the previous moves.
Inexplicably, he changed course.
Again, my fully informed and accurate assessment and objection is NOT about the specific pieces Bloom acquired (all of which are extreme high risks), but rather that he wasted an opportunity to add a needed position player with immediate opportunity to be part of the 2026 mix.
Strategically, an unforced blunder on Bloom part because he not only whiffed on that specific and necessary item in return - but actually made the situation far worse by making the weakest area of the team even more deficient.
Makes zero sense to add MLB ready pitchers in the prior deals - and then torpedo those moves by making the team behind them worse (outfield is worse, infield is worse, depth is worse.)
And for that he traded an all-star, a gold glove with 2 years of cheap control remaining and multiple future opportunities to deal him if needed?
Incredibly poor strategic thinking on Bloom's part.
Now, as I have stated, opening day is still several weeks away.
Bloom could very well have another move in the works that would change the equation of the Donovan deal.
But as of now, very unlikely this deal will benefit the Cardinals.

I, too, felt Bloom should have come away with a position player at least close to being MLB ready. I posted that Bloom should have demanded either the young outfield slugger, Montes, or Arroyo in a addition to Cijntje. Obviously, Cijntje was the player Bloom was after in the deal.

"Obviously, Cijntje was the player Bloom was after in the deal"
That is correct - everything else was simply a side salad.
Which is exactly why the deal was so strange.
Bloom already added Fitts and Dobbins at the MLB level and already had Doyle, and Mathews, and Clarke, and Franklin, and Hence, and Fajardo, and Henderson, and Mautz among others - and decided the roll the dice on the Donovan deal to add another arm who is at the high end of the risk scale rather than acquire a single position player?
And this while dealing away the best 2 position players they had?
Makes zero sense.
Unless he has another move planned in the coming weeks.

Peete and Ledbetter were sidesald. The 2 top 100 picks and a top 100 prospect are strong returns. Donovan is FA eligible in 2 years. Cards won’t be competitive then. He would walk. I’m a strong “can’t have too much pitching” guy. The two picks and additional $ are big. Cards can use it and the picks to pay over slot for a difficult sign that slips. Any number of things. Cards are seeking to build through the draft. I’ll be patient. Plus, being in Houston, I see what they did here.

Facts.
All I do.
Results for #68-#72 draft picks who should be at the primer of their MLB careers right now.
From 2018 -
Grove: 5.48 MLB ERA and returned to minors all of last year.
Eierman: never appeared in MLB and currently out of baseball.
Dodson: has never appeared in MLB, career minor leaguer.
Gray: MLB 17-27, 4.84; only 2 games in the past 2 years due to TJ surgery, may be in Washington's 2026 rotation.
(Cardinals took Baker #75 that year)
From 2019 -
Kessinger: 70 career MLB PA's with .113 BA, .243 OBP, no MLB appearance sine 2024, currently on a minor league deal signed this off-season.
Lugo: finally reached MLB in 2025, .232 BA and .243 BA in 70 PA's.
Marsh: 43 MLB appearances, 4.96 ERA, 12-18.
Stowers: after washing out with BLT (.229/.274), finally became an MLB starter in 2025 with 2nd chance in Miami; .253 career average and .325 OBP; Marlins designated ASG representative in 2025.
(Cardinals had one pick between 50-100, selecting Locey who never appeared in MLB and was out of baseball by 2023.)
From 2020 -
Glowenke: never appeared in MLB, out of baseball by 2024.
Greene: has never played in MLB, never progressed beyond A ball.
Burleson: starting MLB 1b
Infante: has never appeared in MLB
Santos: has never appeared in MLB.
(Cardinals also picked Hence #63, he has never appeared in MLB, never appeared above AA.)
Bottom line -
13 players picked from #68 - #72 in 2018, 2019, 2020.
Exactly 1 - Burleson - has established himself as a solid MLB starting player
Exactly ZERO have become a core piece of an MLB roster.
Anyone who thinks Bloom achieved great value by adding 2 comp picks (in reality, just 1, since STL would have received a pick when Donovan reached FA) in the 68-72 range is simply willfully ignoring the facts.
Odds of him drafting a starting MLB player with multiple years of solid MLB production are less than 10% and odds of drafting a core star player are less than 4%.
Like it or not, that is the reality.

[scoutyjones2]

Yellow Ledbetter

[Hoosier59]

Depth filler.
Terrible return overall in the Donovan deal.
Not one position player included who will ever likely contribute on a MLB field.

What players do you believe they could have obtained for Donny? It’s one thing to complain; another thing to offer solution. It separates the whiners from those with something to offer.

Mel's so far off base here, the return for Donny was solid and the two picks Bloom got (and added bonus money) made it well above what I expected.

Agreed. The 2 extra draft picks, plus more allotted pool money is a HUGE part of the deal. Not to mention 2, former 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick (I think??). Not bad at all.

It may take several years, but I think we got plus value back.

That pool money is indeed HUGE

Let's hope some high quality kid(s) fall in the draft abd that money can have them landing in our system!

Those bashing the deal(s) are either naive or had unrealistic expectations........Bloom wasn't dealing away prime time Albert!

OR, it could just be that you had too low of expectations!
There was no need to add money to the Contreras deal, other than Boston knew Bloom’s hands were tied and took advantage of that fact! Same with the Donovan deal. Seattle kept all their best prospects and landed the player they wanted all along! Seattle gave up their 4th best pitching prospect and a few maybes.
I’ll say this, DeWitt wishes all Cardinal fans were as easy to please as you are!

Not me pal, meet and even exceeded my expectations.

The return for Donny was a solid "B+".

Also disagree w/your take on WillyC too.

The $8M brought back pitching prospects Hunter Dobbins, Yhoiker Fajardo, and Blake Aita, another good trade.

You're as off base as mel, birds of a feather.

So far all you’ve done is brag and agree with everything Bloom and DeWitt have done so enjoy it while you can!

[rockondlouie]

Depth filler.
Terrible return overall in the Donovan deal.
Not one position player included who will ever likely contribute on a MLB field.

What players do you believe they could have obtained for Donny? It’s one thing to complain; another thing to offer solution. It separates the whiners from those with something to offer.

Mel's so far off base here, the return for Donny was solid and the two picks Bloom got (and added bonus money) made it well above what I expected.

Agreed. The 2 extra draft picks, plus more allotted pool money is a HUGE part of the deal. Not to mention 2, former 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick (I think??). Not bad at all.

It may take several years, but I think we got plus value back.

That pool money is indeed HUGE

Let's hope some high quality kid(s) fall in the draft abd that money can have them landing in our system!

Those bashing the deal(s) are either naive or had unrealistic expectations........Bloom wasn't dealing away prime time Albert!

OR, it could just be that you had too low of expectations!
There was no need to add money to the Contreras deal, other than Boston knew Bloom’s hands were tied and took advantage of that fact! Same with the Donovan deal. Seattle kept all their best prospects and landed the player they wanted all along! Seattle gave up their 4th best pitching prospect and a few maybes.
I’ll say this, DeWitt wishes all Cardinal fans were as easy to please as you are!

Not me pal, meet and even exceeded my expectations.

The return for Donny was a solid "B+".

Also disagree w/your take on WillyC too.

The $8M brought back pitching prospects Hunter Dobbins, Yhoiker Fajardo, and Blake Aita, another good trade.

You're as off base as mel, birds of a feather.

So far all you’ve done is brag and agree with everything Bloom and DeWitt have done so enjoy it while you can!

You're 100% WRONG hoosier, must have me confused w/another poster since I've been BDWJr biggest critic in here for many, many years.

I've started threads bashing him for this obvious RUSE he's using (re: rebuild) as an excuse to slash payroll.

I've started multiple threads bashing him for keeping Mo the Idiot in power for years too long.

Am I willing to give C. Bloom the benefit of a doubt that he can clean up this mess BDWJr/Mo have created?

You're d a m n right I am, why on earth aren't you?

The guy inherited a mess in the minor league system (which he's already repaired) and is now cleaning up the roster mess Mo left behind.

Gimme a break hoosier, no way in H E L L I've been on BDWJr's side or "brag" about what he's done to the franchise.

Get your facts right.

[Hoosier59]

Depth filler.
Terrible return overall in the Donovan deal.
Not one position player included who will ever likely contribute on a MLB field.

What players do you believe they could have obtained for Donny? It’s one thing to complain; another thing to offer solution. It separates the whiners from those with something to offer.

Mel's so far off base here, the return for Donny was solid and the two picks Bloom got (and added bonus money) made it well above what I expected.

Agreed. The 2 extra draft picks, plus more allotted pool money is a HUGE part of the deal. Not to mention 2, former 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick (I think??). Not bad at all.

It may take several years, but I think we got plus value back.

That pool money is indeed HUGE

Let's hope some high quality kid(s) fall in the draft abd that money can have them landing in our system!

Those bashing the deal(s) are either naive or had unrealistic expectations........Bloom wasn't dealing away prime time Albert!

OR, it could just be that you had too low of expectations!
There was no need to add money to the Contreras deal, other than Boston knew Bloom’s hands were tied and took advantage of that fact! Same with the Donovan deal. Seattle kept all their best prospects and landed the player they wanted all along! Seattle gave up their 4th best pitching prospect and a few maybes.
I’ll say this, DeWitt wishes all Cardinal fans were as easy to please as you are!

Not me pal, meet and even exceeded my expectations.

The return for Donny was a solid "B+".

Also disagree w/your take on WillyC too.

The $8M brought back pitching prospects Hunter Dobbins, Yhoiker Fajardo, and Blake Aita, another good trade.

You're as off base as mel, birds of a feather.

So far all you’ve done is brag and agree with everything Bloom and DeWitt have done so enjoy it while you can!

You're 100% WRONG hoosier, must have me confused w/another poster since I've been BDWJr biggest critic in here for many, many years.

I've started threads bashing him for this obvious RUSE he's using (re: rebuild) as an excuse to slash payroll.

I've started multiple threads bashing him for keeping Mo the Idiot in power for years too long.

Am I willing to give C. Bloom the benefit of a doubt that he can clean up this mess BDWJr/Mo have created?

You're d a m n right I am, why on earth aren't you?

The guy inherited a mess in the minor league system (which he's already repaired) and is now cleaning up the roster mess Mo left behind.
Gimme a break hoosier, no way in H E L L I've been on BDWJr's side or "brag" about what he's done to the franchise.

Get your facts right.

I was referring to this off-season, and this off-season alone! I’ve been in the crowd that didn’t believe this total tear down was necessary! The team could have rebuilt the minors while also trying to stay competitive. The Gray and Arenado trades are what they were. Neither were bringing back much due their financial situations. I was disappointed in the return for Contreras, due to the money added to his deal. All the things I read was his contract was not a sunk cost. Boston took advantage of Bloom because they knew the directive DeWitt had put upon him.
As to the Donovan trade, everyone on here was hoping to get a position player in return, who would have an immediate impact !
Bloom didn’t do that, and evidently didn’t ever intend to do that, as it was reported that the pitcher he got was who he was after all along. So, while I know you have never been happy with the way DeWitt let Mo destroy the team, as well as the rest of us. It has seemed that you have agreed with the moves Bloom has made, pretty much under the direction of DeWitt, and satisfied with the returns. That’s all I was alluding to, and if I’ve been incorrect in this, I apologize!

[renostl]

Depth filler.
Terrible return overall in the Donovan deal.
Not one position player included who will ever likely contribute on a MLB field.

What players do you believe they could have obtained for Donny? It’s one thing to complain; another thing to offer solution. It separates the whiners from those with something to offer.

Mel's so far off base here, the return for Donny was solid and the two picks Bloom got (and added bonus money) made it well above what I expected.

Agreed. The 2 extra draft picks, plus more allotted pool money is a HUGE part of the deal. Not to mention 2, former 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick (I think??). Not bad at all.

It may take several years, but I think we got plus value back.

That pool money is indeed HUGE

Let's hope some high quality kid(s) fall in the draft abd that money can have them landing in our system!

Those bashing the deal(s) are either naive or had unrealistic expectations........Bloom wasn't dealing away prime time Albert!

OR, it could just be that you had too low of expectations!
There was no need to add money to the Contreras deal, other than Boston knew Bloom’s hands were tied and took advantage of that fact! Same with the Donovan deal. Seattle kept all their best prospects and landed the player they wanted all along! Seattle gave up their 4th best pitching prospect and a few maybes.
I’ll say this, DeWitt wishes all Cardinal fans were as easy to please as you are!

Probably their 3rd best pitching prospect and Sloan's eta is at least a couple years away.
Regardless it's about what they become and do for the Cardinals.

The money is 100% irrelevant in both Boston trades. The Cards if they are limited on
spending on the 2026 roster it is not due to what Boston was given. They saved more than
they spent by far. Boston faces luxury tax, those trades don't happen without money.
$76M was due those 2 player for 2 more seasons. Now just $28M.
We will have to see between now and 2027 what they do with the $48M.

I actually like both trades, which is probably bad news for all here.
Fitts, Dobbins, Clarke, Aita, and Farjardo seems like a positive return.

Donovan. I was hopeful of a different package too. Doesn't make me right or anyone here
correct. Cards got a #15 overall. He was targeted by the FO. The other 2 plus the picks are
5 players picked before round 3 for Donovan, 2 first. I'll admit to wanting a different mix,
we'll see how it works out, hopefully good, it is what they do for a living.

Donovan is a good but limited player that has missed his share of games the last 3 seasons. He and Nootbaar
are averaging about the same number of games the last 3 seasons.

[Hoosier59]

I guess what I’m most upset about, is how DeWitt has totally dismantled this team, and only brought in 4 pitchers who have any chance of being on the 26 man roster this season.
#1-Dustin May What are the odds he doesn’t go on an extended injured list leave?
#2- Richard Fitts Probably will be of the most use this season. 4.00ish ERA, 130ish innings pitched.
#3- Hunter Dobbins 70-80 innings pitched, 4.8-5.0 ish ERA
#4- Ryne Stanek 4.00ish ERA will pitch mostly ok, but with some games where he gets lit up!

I suppose there is still time for Bloom to pick up another hurler or two on the cheap, but I was hoping with Mo gone we would be finished with the “ Low-Hanging-Fruit “ thing!
Bassett, and Littell are still out there, so there is still some hope there, but not much on the position side.
With the way things have gone, I still can’t believe that the player they decided to spend money on was May! Why would they give him over 12 mil dollars, when the odds are he won’t pitch over 50 innings?
Quintana signed for 6 mil, Montgomery 1.2mil, and there have been others.

[Melville]

Depth filler.
Terrible return overall in the Donovan deal.
Not one position player included who will ever likely contribute on a MLB field.

What players do you believe they could have obtained for Donny? It’s one thing to complain; another thing to offer solution. It separates the whiners from those with something to offer.

Mel's so far off base here, the return for Donny was solid and the two picks Bloom got (and added bonus money) made it well above what I expected.

Agreed. The 2 extra draft picks, plus more allotted pool money is a HUGE part of the deal. Not to mention 2, former 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick (I think??). Not bad at all.

It may take several years, but I think we got plus value back.

That pool money is indeed HUGE

Let's hope some high quality kid(s) fall in the draft abd that money can have them landing in our system!

Those bashing the deal(s) are either naive or had unrealistic expectations........Bloom wasn't dealing away prime time Albert!

OR, it could just be that you had too low of expectations!
There was no need to add money to the Contreras deal, other than Boston knew Bloom’s hands were tied and took advantage of that fact! Same with the Donovan deal. Seattle kept all their best prospects and landed the player they wanted all along! Seattle gave up their 4th best pitching prospect and a few maybes.
I’ll say this, DeWitt wishes all Cardinal fans were as easy to please as you are!

Probably their 3rd best pitching prospect and Sloan's eta is at least a couple years away.
Regardless it's about what they become and do for the Cardinals.

The money is 100% irrelevant in both Boston trades. The Cards if they are limited on
spending on the 2026 roster it is not due to what Boston was given. They saved more than
they spent by far. Boston faces luxury tax, those trades don't happen without money.
$76M was due those 2 player for 2 more seasons. Now just $28M.
We will have to see between now and 2027 what they do with the $48M.

I actually like both trades, which is probably bad news for all here.
Fitts, Dobbins, Clarke, Aita, and Farjardo seems like a positive return.

Donovan. I was hopeful of a different package too. Doesn't make me right or anyone here
correct. Cards got a #15 overall. He was targeted by the FO. The other 2 plus the picks are
5 players picked before round 3 for Donovan, 2 first. I'll admit to wanting a different mix,
we'll see how it works out, hopefully good, it is what they do for a living.

Donovan is a good but limited player that has missed his share of games the last 3 seasons. He and Nootbaar
are averaging about the same number of games the last 3 seasons.

"Donovan. I was hopeful of a different package too. Doesn't make me right or anyone here correct."
Actually, it most certainly makes you right.

[woofy25]

Depth filler.
Terrible return overall in the Donovan deal.
Not one position player included who will ever likely contribute on a MLB field.

What is this opinion based on other than the fact the predicting a lack of success is right the vast majority of the time with baseball prospects?

STL wanted a 2nd comp pick for Donovan.
Rays wanted Williamson.
Ledbetter was the throw away to help all 3 teams achieve their actual goals.
Depth filler, nothing more.

This doesn’t come close to answering my question and I’m sincerely curious. Why do you think the return was terrible and none of the prospects will contribute at the MLB level?

It was not clear what you were asking.
Why I correctly believe Ledbetter was a throw in depth filler to make the deal work 3 ways, or why I dislike the return for Donovan?
Appreciate you now clarifying that.
Happy to provide the answer - which I have done several times is various threads.
With the Gray/Contreras/May decisions Bloom was thinking short term and long term - and did so very effectively, particularly addressing the starting rotation with that dual track thinking.
With Donovan, he did no such thing - choosing instead to simply bet on an assembly of various long shots of whom none are realistically close to being a significant contribute anytime soon.
And there was zero reason to take that path.
Donovan, likely last opportunity to leverage a key trade piece this off-season, was MORE valuable than Gray or Contreras.
And since Bloom had done nothing to address position player needs, it was imperative that he do so by leveraging Donovan.
Bloom could have - and should have - addressed both long term and short-term question just as he had wisely done in the previous moves.
Inexplicably, he changed course.
Again, my fully informed and accurate assessment and objection is NOT about the specific pieces Bloom acquired (all of which are extreme high risks), but rather that he wasted an opportunity to add a needed position player with immediate opportunity to be part of the 2026 mix.
Strategically, an unforced blunder on Bloom part because he not only whiffed on that specific and necessary item in return - but actually made the situation far worse by making the weakest area of the team even more deficient.
Makes zero sense to add MLB ready pitchers in the prior deals - and then torpedo those moves by making the team behind them worse (outfield is worse, infield is worse, depth is worse.)
And for that he traded an all-star, a gold glove with 2 years of cheap control remaining and multiple future opportunities to deal him if needed?
Incredibly poor strategic thinking on Bloom's part.
Now, as I have stated, opening day is still several weeks away.
Bloom could very well have another move in the works that would change the equation of the Donovan deal.
But as of now, very unlikely this deal will benefit the Cardinals.

There is, of course, no reason to invest a dime into getting, what would amount to a league average Ofer, to put on the 2026 team. Instead, he acquired a pitcher who likely makes his debut in 2026, two draft picks, a flier on Peete and probably a JAG in Ledbetter

[rockondlouie]

Depth filler.
Terrible return overall in the Donovan deal.
Not one position player included who will ever likely contribute on a MLB field.

What players do you believe they could have obtained for Donny? It’s one thing to complain; another thing to offer solution. It separates the whiners from those with something to offer.

Mel's so far off base here, the return for Donny was solid and the two picks Bloom got (and added bonus money) made it well above what I expected.

Agreed. The 2 extra draft picks, plus more allotted pool money is a HUGE part of the deal. Not to mention 2, former 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick (I think??). Not bad at all.

It may take several years, but I think we got plus value back.

That pool money is indeed HUGE

Let's hope some high quality kid(s) fall in the draft abd that money can have them landing in our system!

Those bashing the deal(s) are either naive or had unrealistic expectations........Bloom wasn't dealing away prime time Albert!

OR, it could just be that you had too low of expectations!
There was no need to add money to the Contreras deal, other than Boston knew Bloom’s hands were tied and took advantage of that fact! Same with the Donovan deal. Seattle kept all their best prospects and landed the player they wanted all along! Seattle gave up their 4th best pitching prospect and a few maybes.
I’ll say this, DeWitt wishes all Cardinal fans were as easy to please as you are!

Not me pal, meet and even exceeded my expectations.

The return for Donny was a solid "B+".

Also disagree w/your take on WillyC too.

The $8M brought back pitching prospects Hunter Dobbins, Yhoiker Fajardo, and Blake Aita, another good trade.

You're as off base as mel, birds of a feather.

So far all you’ve done is brag and agree with everything Bloom and DeWitt have done so enjoy it while you can!

You're 100% WRONG hoosier, must have me confused w/another poster since I've been BDWJr biggest critic in here for many, many years.

I've started threads bashing him for this obvious RUSE he's using (re: rebuild) as an excuse to slash payroll.

I've started multiple threads bashing him for keeping Mo the Idiot in power for years too long.

Am I willing to give C. Bloom the benefit of a doubt that he can clean up this mess BDWJr/Mo have created?

You're d a m n right I am, why on earth aren't you?

The guy inherited a mess in the minor league system (which he's already repaired) and is now cleaning up the roster mess Mo left behind.
Gimme a break hoosier, no way in H E L L I've been on BDWJr's side or "brag" about what he's done to the franchise.

Get your facts right.

I was referring to this off-season, and this off-season alone! I’ve been in the crowd that didn’t believe this total tear down was necessary! The team could have rebuilt the minors while also trying to stay competitive. The Gray and Arenado trades are what they were. Neither were bringing back much due their financial situations. I was disappointed in the return for Contreras, due to the money added to his deal. All the things I read was his contract was not a sunk cost. Boston took advantage of Bloom because they knew the directive DeWitt had put upon him.
As to the Donovan trade, everyone on here was hoping to get a position player in return, who would have an immediate impact !
Bloom didn’t do that, and evidently didn’t ever intend to do that, as it was reported that the pitcher he got was who he was after all along. So, while I know you have never been happy with the way DeWitt let Mo destroy the team, as well as the rest of us. It has seemed that you have agreed with the moves Bloom has made, pretty much under the direction of DeWitt, and satisfied with the returns. That’s all I was alluding to, and if I’ve been incorrect in this, I apologize!

Hey hoosier, you know the old saying "He he has the gold makes the rules" and BDWJr has the gold and it's been obvious what he was doing now for two years.

I screamed at the moon for a long time, went toe-to-toe w/matt saying C. Bloom could walk (rebuild) & chew gum (keep us competitive in 2026).

BUT

BDWJr killed that on me by ordering all the high salary players traded (and rest assured, this s all coming from Big Bill).

And yes, I absolutely have agreed w/the moves Bloom made hoosier because they had to be made per Dewitt's orders to slash payroll!

I also am smart enough to know the return for aging players w/BIG contracts wasn't going to be overwhelming.

But don't take my word for it, national baseball writers have been giving him "A's and B's" for all the trades.

I always respect your opinions hoosier, you're a good guy so no sweat.

[Cusecards]

Hey this is after all an “anonymous” talk forum where “opinions” can be exchanged in a relatively harmless.
But....wouldn’t you love to be a fly on the wall in one of ME-ville’s so called training sessions??
Assuming that he is actually a trainer and not making fries at a fast food restaurant?
If he is anything in real life like he is here those trainees/students must love the pompous/narcissistic babbling? LOL

[renostl]

Depth filler.
Terrible return overall in the Donovan deal.
Not one position player included who will ever likely contribute on a MLB field.

What players do you believe they could have obtained for Donny? It’s one thing to complain; another thing to offer solution. It separates the whiners from those with something to offer.

Mel's so far off base here, the return for Donny was solid and the two picks Bloom got (and added bonus money) made it well above what I expected.

Agreed. The 2 extra draft picks, plus more allotted pool money is a HUGE part of the deal. Not to mention 2, former 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick (I think??). Not bad at all.

It may take several years, but I think we got plus value back.

That pool money is indeed HUGE

Let's hope some high quality kid(s) fall in the draft abd that money can have them landing in our system!

Those bashing the deal(s) are either naive or had unrealistic expectations........Bloom wasn't dealing away prime time Albert!

OR, it could just be that you had too low of expectations!
There was no need to add money to the Contreras deal, other than Boston knew Bloom’s hands were tied and took advantage of that fact! Same with the Donovan deal. Seattle kept all their best prospects and landed the player they wanted all along! Seattle gave up their 4th best pitching prospect and a few maybes.
I’ll say this, DeWitt wishes all Cardinal fans were as easy to please as you are!

Probably their 3rd best pitching prospect and Sloan's eta is at least a couple years away.
Regardless it's about what they become and do for the Cardinals.

The money is 100% irrelevant in both Boston trades. The Cards if they are limited on
spending on the 2026 roster it is not due to what Boston was given. They saved more than
they spent by far. Boston faces luxury tax, those trades don't happen without money.
$76M was due those 2 player for 2 more seasons. Now just $28M.
We will have to see between now and 2027 what they do with the $48M.

I actually like both trades, which is probably bad news for all here.
Fitts, Dobbins, Clarke, Aita, and Farjardo seems like a positive return.

Donovan. I was hopeful of a different package too. Doesn't make me right or anyone here
correct. Cards got a #15 overall. He was targeted by the FO. The other 2 plus the picks are
5 players picked before round 3 for Donovan, 2 first. I'll admit to wanting a different mix,
we'll see how it works out, hopefully good, it is what they do for a living.

Donovan is a good but limited player that has missed his share of games the last 3 seasons. He and Nootbaar
are averaging about the same number of games the last 3 seasons.

"Donovan. I was hopeful of a different package too. Doesn't make me right or anyone here correct."
Actually, it most certainly makes you right.

No, I am afraid that it does not.
Reasons why

1.We are predicting future production that includes many factors.

2. We don't have a lot of information other than past production. That information
is absent of personal human factors and it based on the past of very young players.

3. IF, I prefer being right most often then I should predict failure. It is the safe and most
common outcome. It is a lazy, simple approach. An approach that you don't do with Mr. Gorman.
That part of that prediction is commendable.

4. And very important here for it touches on 2 of your positions. Donovan was but a singular
move. It could have been made to acquire a different package of players and that may have
temporarily satisfied me, nothing more. That doesn't mean other moves cannot be made. You have even
suggested a few with the likes of Mathews, Bernal, Jo Jo, Nootbaar, etc. Any package that includes
those players is more likely to bring back a now player or soon player, imo. The reasoning is teams
that wanted Donnie weren't subtracting a high end now player for him. Using Donnie to grab another
teams abundance has rationale. You optimize Donnies value. Use your above suggestions when
pinpointing an exact target.

5. It is possible that the FO still sees team needs.