Might Ledbetter be darkhorse piece in Donovan deal ?

[Strummer Jones]

MiLB
1006 PAs 25/126 .269 .341 .428 .768
NCAA
561 PAs 28/114 3 .313 .419 .587 1.006

MiLB
912 PAs 23/109 .258 .346 .381 .728
NCAA
605 PAs 14/74 .272 .374 .415 .789

Player 1 is LEdbetter, Player 2 is Noot. Everyone wanted to anoint Noot as the next best thing, I'd say let's see what LedBetter is and play this thing out. Noot was an 8th round draft pick and LEdbetter was a 2nd round draft pick.

Noot was a fun story and a cute name, but I think the jury is in regarding him. I want to be wrong, but I think he's in the overrated bucket.

[82birds]

Depth filler.
Terrible return overall in the Donovan deal.
Not one position player included who will ever likely contribute on a MLB field.

What players do you believe they could have obtained for Donny? It’s one thing to complain; another thing to offer solution. It separates the whiners from those with something to offer.

Mel's so far off base here, the return for Donny was solid and the two picks Bloom got (and added bonus money) made it well above what I expected.

agree Rock

[Hoosier59]

I’m not going to waste my time posting his numbers, but look up Matt Koperniak’s numbers and compare them to Ledbetters. The Cardinals have never given Koperniak a sniff of playing time, so what chance does Ledbetter have? Mike Antico, arguably has better stats too. I don’t hear anybody clamoring for him to be promoted! No idea why he was included in the deal, but because bloom acquired him, there are some people here that think he must be a star in the making, just a matter of time!

[HOUCARD]

Depth filler.
Terrible return overall in the Donovan deal.
Not one position player included who will ever likely contribute on a MLB field.

What is this opinion based on other than the fact the predicting a lack of success is right the vast majority of the time with baseball prospects?

Plus the #68 and #72 picks in the upcoming draft. Cards got these two picks, a top 100 pitching prospect, plus Peete and Ledbetter (considered by many a throwin). Seems a pretty good return to me. Until proven otherwise, I'm going with Bloom rather than forum posters. I usually agree with what you have to say Melville. I think you are wrong this time.

[imyourhuckleberry]

They obviously see something in the guy, otherwise why even bother including him in the deal at all? This is no longer the Mozeliak developmental (or lack thereof) system.

All new developmental staff. All new process. Why not give it a chance before declaring every prospect the Cards acquire will flame out?

If he develops to be a serviceable 4\5 outfielder great! If he turns out to be an occasional Memphis shuttle guy, that's good too. If he turns out to be minor league depth, fine. He's the 5th most important piece of the 5 pieces coming back.

Jeez, at least give the guy the opportunity to fail.

[zoiks]

No

[greyhawk]

Depth filler.
Terrible return overall in the Donovan deal.
Not one position player included who will ever likely contribute on a MLB field.

What is this opinion based on other than the fact the predicting a lack of success is right the vast majority of the time with baseball prospects?

Plus the #68 and #72 picks in the upcoming draft. Cards got these two picks, a top 100 pitching prospect, plus Peete and Ledbetter (considered by many a throwin). Seems a pretty good return to me. Until proven otherwise, I'm going with Bloom rather than forum posters. I usually agree with what you have to say Melville. I think you are wrong this time.

I would bet the odds say he isn't likely wrong, but i don't think even he knows for sure on this one.

[Melville]

Depth filler.
Terrible return overall in the Donovan deal.
Not one position player included who will ever likely contribute on a MLB field.

What is this opinion based on other than the fact the predicting a lack of success is right the vast majority of the time with baseball prospects?

STL wanted a 2nd comp pick for Donovan.
Rays wanted Williamson.
Ledbetter was the throw away to help all 3 teams achieve their actual goals.
Depth filler, nothing more.

This doesn’t come close to answering my question and I’m sincerely curious. Why do you think the return was terrible and none of the prospects will contribute at the MLB level?

It was not clear what you were asking.
Why I correctly believe Ledbetter was a throw in depth filler to make the deal work 3 ways, or why I dislike the return for Donovan?
Appreciate you now clarifying that.
Happy to provide the answer - which I have done several times is various threads.
With the Gray/Contreras/May decisions Bloom was thinking short term and long term - and did so very effectively, particularly addressing the starting rotation with that dual track thinking.
With Donovan, he did no such thing - choosing instead to simply bet on an assembly of various long shots of whom none are realistically close to being a significant contribute anytime soon.
And there was zero reason to take that path.
Donovan, likely last opportunity to leverage a key trade piece this off-season, was MORE valuable than Gray or Contreras.
And since Bloom had done nothing to address position player needs, it was imperative that he do so by leveraging Donovan.
Bloom could have - and should have - addressed both long term and short-term question just as he had wisely done in the previous moves.
Inexplicably, he changed course.
Again, my fully informed and accurate assessment and objection is NOT about the specific pieces Bloom acquired (all of which are extreme high risks), but rather that he wasted an opportunity to add a needed position player with immediate opportunity to be part of the 2026 mix.
Strategically, an unforced blunder on Bloom part because he not only whiffed on that specific and necessary item in return - but actually made the situation far worse by making the weakest area of the team even more deficient.
Makes zero sense to add MLB ready pitchers in the prior deals - and then torpedo those moves by making the team behind them worse (outfield is worse, infield is worse, depth is worse.)
And for that he traded an all-star, a gold glove with 2 years of cheap control remaining and multiple future opportunities to deal him if needed?
Incredibly poor strategic thinking on Bloom's part.
Now, as I have stated, opening day is still several weeks away.
Bloom could very well have another move in the works that would change the equation of the Donovan deal.
But as of now, very unlikely this deal will benefit the Cardinals.

[Shady]

Depth filler.
Terrible return overall in the Donovan deal.
Not one position player included who will ever likely contribute on a MLB field.

What is this opinion based on other than the fact the predicting a lack of success is right the vast majority of the time with baseball prospects?

STL wanted a 2nd comp pick for Donovan.
Rays wanted Williamson.
Ledbetter was the throw away to help all 3 teams achieve their actual goals.
Depth filler, nothing more.

This doesn’t come close to answering my question and I’m sincerely curious. Why do you think the return was terrible and none of the prospects will contribute at the MLB level?

It was not clear what you were asking.
Why I correctly believe Ledbetter was a throw in depth filler to make the deal work 3 ways, or why I dislike the return for Donovan?
Appreciate you now clarifying that.
Happy to provide the answer - which I have done several times is various threads.
With the Gray/Contreras/May decisions Bloom was thinking short term and long term - and did so very effectively, particularly addressing the starting rotation with that dual track thinking.
With Donovan, he did no such thing - choosing instead to simply bet on an assembly of various long shots of whom none are realistically close to being a significant contribute anytime soon.
And there was zero reason to take that path.
Donovan, likely last opportunity to leverage a key trade piece this off-season, was MORE valuable than Gray or Contreras.
And since Bloom had done nothing to address position player needs, it was imperative that he do so by leveraging Donovan.
Bloom could have - and should have - addressed both long term and short-term question just as he had wisely done in the previous moves.
Inexplicably, he changed course.
Again, my fully informed and accurate assessment and objection is NOT about the specific pieces Bloom acquired (all of which are extreme high risks), but rather that he wasted an opportunity to add a needed position player with immediate opportunity to be part of the 2026 mix.
Strategically, an unforced blunder on Bloom part because he not only whiffed on that specific and necessary item in return - but actually made the situation far worse by making the weakest area of the team even more deficient.
Makes zero sense to add MLB ready pitchers in the prior deals - and then torpedo those moves by making the team behind them worse (outfield is worse, infield is worse, depth is worse.)
And for that he traded an all-star, a gold glove with 2 years of cheap control remaining and multiple future opportunities to deal him if needed?
Incredibly poor strategic thinking on Bloom's part.
Now, as I have stated, opening day is still several weeks away.
Bloom could very well have another move in the works that would change the equation of the Donovan deal.
But as of now, very unlikely this deal will benefit the Cardinals.

I, too, felt Bloom should have come away with a position player at least close to being MLB ready. I posted that Bloom should have demanded either the young outfield slugger, Montes, or Arroyo in a addition to Cijntje. Obviously, Cijntje was the player Bloom was after in the deal.

[Cardinals4Life]

Depth filler.
Terrible return overall in the Donovan deal.
Not one position player included who will ever likely contribute on a MLB field.

What players do you believe they could have obtained for Donny? It’s one thing to complain; another thing to offer solution. It separates the whiners from those with something to offer.

Mel's so far off base here, the return for Donny was solid and the two picks Bloom got (and added bonus money) made it well above what I expected.

Agreed. The 2 extra draft picks, plus more allotted pool money is a HUGE part of the deal. Not to mention 2, former 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick (I think??). Not bad at all.

It may take several years, but I think we got plus value back.

[Melville]

Depth filler.
Terrible return overall in the Donovan deal.
Not one position player included who will ever likely contribute on a MLB field.

What is this opinion based on other than the fact the predicting a lack of success is right the vast majority of the time with baseball prospects?

Plus the #68 and #72 picks in the upcoming draft. Cards got these two picks, a top 100 pitching prospect, plus Peete and Ledbetter (considered by many a throwin). Seems a pretty good return to me. Until proven otherwise, I'm going with Bloom rather than forum posters. I usually agree with what you have to say Melville. I think you are wrong this time.

I certainly respect opposing intelligent views - and you certainly fall into that group.
We just see it differently - which does surprise me just a bit.
Two quick notes.
One, as I have said many times, the error on Bloom's part is more about the fact that strategically the move makes no sense than it is about the collection of long-shots themselves.
Maybe Bloom gets lucky with one of them.
But is contradictory to improve the rotation quality and depth while making the position players backing up those pitchers exponentially worse.
What was the point?
That could change if additional moves are made in the next several weeks, but at this moment it makes no sense whatsoever.
Two, in Donovan they knew they add an all-star gold glove player capable of being plugged into at least 4 different roles under control for 2 seasons at a minimum and would receive a comp pick if he left as a FA - and in return they get one of the most high-risk pitchers in all of minor league baseball, 2 throw in outfielders unlikely to ever start in STL, and 2 comp picks with no more than a 3-4% chance of developing into stars.
Simple probability is that the entire group is less likely to equal 2 seasons equal or better than what Donovan would have delivered.
Bottom line.
I would love to be wrong about this, but odds are overwhelming in my favor that I am right.
Very, very strange thinking on Bloom's part.
The Gray/Contreras/May moves all made far more sense.

[Melville]

Depth filler.
Terrible return overall in the Donovan deal.
Not one position player included who will ever likely contribute on a MLB field.

What is this opinion based on other than the fact the predicting a lack of success is right the vast majority of the time with baseball prospects?

STL wanted a 2nd comp pick for Donovan.
Rays wanted Williamson.
Ledbetter was the throw away to help all 3 teams achieve their actual goals.
Depth filler, nothing more.

This doesn’t come close to answering my question and I’m sincerely curious. Why do you think the return was terrible and none of the prospects will contribute at the MLB level?

It was not clear what you were asking.
Why I correctly believe Ledbetter was a throw in depth filler to make the deal work 3 ways, or why I dislike the return for Donovan?
Appreciate you now clarifying that.
Happy to provide the answer - which I have done several times is various threads.
With the Gray/Contreras/May decisions Bloom was thinking short term and long term - and did so very effectively, particularly addressing the starting rotation with that dual track thinking.
With Donovan, he did no such thing - choosing instead to simply bet on an assembly of various long shots of whom none are realistically close to being a significant contribute anytime soon.
And there was zero reason to take that path.
Donovan, likely last opportunity to leverage a key trade piece this off-season, was MORE valuable than Gray or Contreras.
And since Bloom had done nothing to address position player needs, it was imperative that he do so by leveraging Donovan.
Bloom could have - and should have - addressed both long term and short-term question just as he had wisely done in the previous moves.
Inexplicably, he changed course.
Again, my fully informed and accurate assessment and objection is NOT about the specific pieces Bloom acquired (all of which are extreme high risks), but rather that he wasted an opportunity to add a needed position player with immediate opportunity to be part of the 2026 mix.
Strategically, an unforced blunder on Bloom part because he not only whiffed on that specific and necessary item in return - but actually made the situation far worse by making the weakest area of the team even more deficient.
Makes zero sense to add MLB ready pitchers in the prior deals - and then torpedo those moves by making the team behind them worse (outfield is worse, infield is worse, depth is worse.)
And for that he traded an all-star, a gold glove with 2 years of cheap control remaining and multiple future opportunities to deal him if needed?
Incredibly poor strategic thinking on Bloom's part.
Now, as I have stated, opening day is still several weeks away.
Bloom could very well have another move in the works that would change the equation of the Donovan deal.
But as of now, very unlikely this deal will benefit the Cardinals.

I, too, felt Bloom should have come away with a position player at least close to being MLB ready. I posted that Bloom should have demanded either the young outfield slugger, Montes, or Arroyo in a addition to Cijntje. Obviously, Cijntje was the player Bloom was after in the deal.

"Obviously, Cijntje was the player Bloom was after in the deal"
That is correct - everything else was simply a side salad.
Which is exactly why the deal was so strange.
Bloom already added Fitts and Dobbins at the MLB level and already had Doyle, and Mathews, and Clarke, and Franklin, and Hence, and Fajardo, and Henderson, and Mautz among others - and decided the roll the dice on the Donovan deal to add another arm who is at the high end of the risk scale rather than acquire a single position player?
And this while dealing away the best 2 position players they had?
Makes zero sense.
Unless he has another move planned in the coming weeks.

[Hoosier59]

We all shall have a clearer picture by mid season on how well Bloom has done. I say that, because I don’t think it will take a full season to be able to see how things are playing out. By mid season we’ll know if May, Fitts, and Dobbin are healthy enough to pitch, and whether any of our minor league pitchers are ready to step in if they aren’t! We should know by then if Gorman, Scott, and Walker have figured anything out! If Herrera can be the catcher. If Wetherholt has a chance at being ROY! If the bullpen still have their arms attached by then! We should also be able to see if any of these prospects brought in are progressing or not! As far as that goes, if changes to the minors are showing any improvements! Lots of things to sort out.
Will Bloom prove to be a master at rebuilding a team, or proved to be just a guy following orders to reduce the payroll.

[Talkin' Baseball]

We all shall have a clearer picture by mid season on how well Bloom has done. I say that, because I don’t think it will take a full season to be able to see how things are playing out. By mid season we’ll know if May, Fitts, and Dobbin are healthy enough to pitch, and whether any of our minor league pitchers are ready to step in if they aren’t! We should know by then if Gorman, Scott, and Walker have figured anything out! If Herrera can be the catcher. If Wetherholt has a chance at being ROY! If the bullpen still have their arms attached by then! We should also be able to see if any of these prospects brought in are progressing or not! As far as that goes, if changes to the minors are showing any improvements! Lots of things to sort out.
Will Bloom prove to be a master at rebuilding a team, or proved to be just a guy following orders to reduce the payroll.

I think you are spot on. Not every answer will be a positive one, but I think the overall results will trend positive.

[rockondlouie]

Depth filler.
Terrible return overall in the Donovan deal.
Not one position player included who will ever likely contribute on a MLB field.

What players do you believe they could have obtained for Donny? It’s one thing to complain; another thing to offer solution. It separates the whiners from those with something to offer.

Mel's so far off base here, the return for Donny was solid and the two picks Bloom got (and added bonus money) made it well above what I expected.

In the Donnie deal, the centerpiece for it to happen was a pitcher NOT a position player. Mariners GM Hollander had a quote in recent article that we (Seattle) knew for this trade to happen we would have to part ways with Cijntje. Without that, no deal.
Some CTers were hoping for a position player to be the key component but not for Bloom. Cijntje was rated in top 100 prospects and Baseball America had the kid rated as top fastball in Mariners system.
Position players in deal were going to be secondary to acquiring a top prospect pitcher.

Read that too

Too many of the negative nellies in here must've thought we were dealing away someone other than Donny given their unrealistic expectations for a return.

M's were in no position to give up a quality hitting prospects but were loaded w/pitching.

I'm a fan of the deal(s) but it will take few years to see if we got any "gems" in return, I think we could!

[rockondlouie]

Depth filler.
Terrible return overall in the Donovan deal.
Not one position player included who will ever likely contribute on a MLB field.

What players do you believe they could have obtained for Donny? It’s one thing to complain; another thing to offer solution. It separates the whiners from those with something to offer.

Mel's so far off base here, the return for Donny was solid and the two picks Bloom got (and added bonus money) made it well above what I expected.

Agreed. The 2 extra draft picks, plus more allotted pool money is a HUGE part of the deal. Not to mention 2, former 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick (I think??). Not bad at all.

It may take several years, but I think we got plus value back.

That pool money is indeed HUGE

Let's hope some high quality kid(s) fall in the draft abd that money can have them landing in our system!

Those bashing the deal(s) are either naive or had unrealistic expectations........Bloom wasn't dealing away prime time Albert!