Tanking Cardinals to move them?

[ecleme22]

This thread is littered with ppl who don’t know what a reset/rebuild looks like.

The traded 4 guys, and three of them are over 33.

Calm down…

[CCard]

Moron

0.00% chance the Cardinals EVER leave St. Louis

Especially with all the investment around and including the stadium. STL will be home for the duration Rock. Unless, like I mentioned earlier, they get approval for the 'Disney " park in East St. Louis to break ground. Then Bill may pack it in.

MLB would NEVER, EVER approve one of their CROWN JEWEL FRANCHISES w/more baseball history, championships and tradition than any team in MLB not named the NY Yankees!

(And St. Louis blew it back in the early 1960's zuck' when Walt Disney himself wanted to turn the river front where the Arch was bring built into his next theme park and August Busch used his muscle to deny him because Walt didn't want beer sold in the proposed park)

Brooklyn Dodgers, New York Giants, Oakland A's....nah...Baseball would never let that happen.

Do you understand how different those 3 situations were from the St. Louis Cardinals of today? IF not you are dumber than a bag of hammers.

Please...explain it for me. While you're at it maybe you can explain why teams in other sports move also. If DeWitt decided to move the Cardinals to Tennessee or Oklahoma what could be done about it? I would say two of those three teams have a larger attendance than the Cardinals. After this year it'll be even more of a disparity. Every team that's ever moved thought they wouldn't. Until they did.

[mattmitchl44]

MLB isn't letting anyone move the Cardinals out of St. Louis.

If there are other markets where MLB could see a team existing, they'll add an expansion franchise long before they let the Cardinals move.

[CCard]

This thread is littered with ppl who don’t know what a reset/rebuild looks like.

The traded 4 guys, and three of them are over 33.

Calm down…

Not so much about the fact they made trades, but about the fact they were replaced with questionable talent. That and the planned losing just sends a bad message to fans. Personally, I don't understand why you all in the tanking brigade can't understand this viewpoint. They don't have to gut the team to do a "rebuild", they CHOOSE to.

[CCard]

MLB isn't letting anyone move the Cardinals out of St. Louis.

If there are other markets where MLB could see a team existing, they'll add an expansion franchise long before they let the Cardinals move.

Please articulate that this is just your feeling. You have no actual proof. No DeWitt or anyone from the MLB has said they won't ever move the team or be allowed to move the team. In your opinion the Cards are too important to move, but not important enough to field a competitive team. I'm sure at one point the fans of the Braves, Dodgers, Giants, A's, etc thought the same way. "Not here."

[mattmitchl44]

MLB isn't letting anyone move the Cardinals out of St. Louis.

If there are other markets where MLB could see a team existing, they'll add an expansion franchise long before they let the Cardinals move.

Please articulate that this is just your feeling. You have no actual proof. No DeWitt or anyone from the MLB has said they won't ever move the team or be allowed to move the team. In your opinion the Cards are too important to move, but not important enough to field a competitive team. I'm sure at one point the fans of the Braves, Dodgers, Giants, A's, etc thought the same way. "Not here."

The MLB owners don't profit much, if at all, from the Cardinals moving out of St. Louis, because St. Louis is a very viable market (demonstrated ability to draw 3+ million in attendance, etc.). They profit from selling the rights to an expansion franchise.

[12xu]

Moron

0.00% chance the Cardinals EVER leave St. Louis

Especially with all the investment around and including the stadium. STL will be home for the duration Rock. Unless, like I mentioned earlier, they get approval for the 'Disney " park in East St. Louis to break ground. Then Bill may pack it in.

MLB would NEVER, EVER approve one of their CROWN JEWEL FRANCHISES w/more baseball history, championships and tradition than any team in MLB not named the NY Yankees!

(And St. Louis blew it back in the early 1960's zuck' when Walt Disney himself wanted to turn the river front where the Arch was bring built into his next theme park and August Busch used his muscle to deny him because Walt didn't want beer sold in the proposed park)

Brooklyn Dodgers, New York Giants, Oakland A's....nah...Baseball would never let that happen.

Do you understand how different those 3 situations were from the St. Louis Cardinals of today? IF not you are dumber than a bag of hammers.

Please...explain it for me. While you're at it maybe you can explain why teams in other sports move also. If DeWitt decided to move the Cardinals to Tennessee or Oklahoma what could be done about it? I would say two of those three teams have a larger attendance than the Cardinals. After this year it'll be even more of a disparity. Every team that's ever moved thought they wouldn't. Until they did.

First: In 2022 the St. Louis Cardinals attendance was second in MLB. Only the Dodgers were better. For many years the Cardinals were top 5 in attendance in MLB. Yes the last 2 seasons the crowds have diminished, for obvious reasons, but even in 2024 they drew more than the cubs, who play in the 3rd largest city in the USA.

Second: Everybody who knows anything about baseball knew the A's were going to move from Oakland. They had been trying to do so for years. They wanted to move to San Jose but the Giants prevented that from happening. The Athletics are now in their 4th location in their history, soon to be in their 5th. Comparing that franchise to the St. Louis Cardinals is the height of stupidity. The Giants and Dodgers were second and third fiddle to the Yankees in NYC and played in stadiums that were crumbling. The lure of the Golden State was too much to ignore, and it was not at all a surprise when they moved.

Third: The Cardinals almost moved in the 50's. They did not own their stadium, the Browns did, the Cardinals had to pay them to play there. The owner of the Cardinals was not too bright, but he eventually sold the team to Gussie Busch in February 1953, which saved the team from moving. Predictably the lousy Browns sold Sportsman's Park to Busch in April and moved to Baltimore after the '53 season. The Cardinal franchise has thrived ever since. They have built two new stadiums in that time and won 5 World Series. The current stadium is just 20 years old and even though DeWitt wants financial help with renovation, it is still an excellent ballpark - newer and better than most in MLB.

[mattmitchl44]

Since 1998, the Cardinals have only failed to top 3 million in attendance five times (2003, 2020, 2021, 2024, and 2025). Two of those years were COVID seasons. Only the Yankees and Dodgers have done better over that time period.

That is not a market that you move a franchise out of.

[12xu]

Since 1998, the Cardinals have only failed to top 3 million in attendance five times (2003, 2020, 2021, 2024, and 2025). Two of those years were COVID seasons. Only the Yankees and Dodgers have done better over that time period.

That is not a market that you move a franchise out of.

Exactly. The city may be struggling, but the surrounding metro area is not. Once the team starts playing well again, the crowds will return.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Since 1998, the Cardinals have only failed to top 3 million in attendance five times (2003, 2020, 2021, 2024, and 2025). Two of those years were COVID seasons. Only the Yankees and Dodgers have done better over that time period.

That is not a market that you move a franchise out of.

Exactly. The city may be struggling, but the surrounding metro area is not. Once the team starts playing well again, the crowds will return.

The road system is pretty good to get in and out of downtown. And the interstates extend three directions. That helps.

Yes it’s just nature. Win. And they will come.

[rockondlouie]

Moron

0.00% chance the Cardinals EVER leave St. Louis

Especially with all the investment around and including the stadium. STL will be home for the duration Rock. Unless, like I mentioned earlier, they get approval for the 'Disney " park in East St. Louis to break ground. Then Bill may pack it in.

MLB would NEVER, EVER approve one of their CROWN JEWEL FRANCHISES w/more baseball history, championships and tradition than any team in MLB not named the NY Yankees!

(And St. Louis blew it back in the early 1960's zuck' when Walt Disney himself wanted to turn the river front where the Arch was bring built into his next theme park and August Busch used his muscle to deny him because Walt didn't want beer sold in the proposed park)

Brooklyn Dodgers, New York Giants, Oakland A's....nah...Baseball would never let that happen.

NO COMPARISON since you're posting second class teams, including two that were based in NYC along w/the Yankees making three teams in one city.

PLUS MLB WANTED desperately to expand west into California and was more than happy to okay the Dodgers and Giants going westward hooooooooo..

The A's had the worst fan support for decades and played in the worst stadium in MLB, bad example.

In the Cardinals you're talking about one of the Top 3 iconic franchises in MLB history, one that drew over 3+M for over two decades in little old St. Lou!

This would be like MLB allowing the Yankees to leave NY for NJ or the Cubs to leave Chicago for Indiana.

NEVER, EVER happening.

Anyone who thinks it would is a moron.

[TNT9516]

I don't know why people keep yapping about attendance of 3 million people a year. They haven't had 3 million of people here in this stadium since before covid. They may have 3 million sold tickets but they can't even give those away. I don't think I've seen more than 10,000 people in the stadium in 2 years. I'll bet they're attendance is closer to 1 million to 1.5 million. St Louis is the smallest city in mlb. There are 279,000 residents in St louis. The next smallest town is Pittsburgh with 310,000. I have been a Cardinals fan for 60 years. I hope to goodness they never leave the area. But these very odd player moves they are making in the name of rebuilding make no sense. And aren't the Dewitt's and Rob Manfred friends? If the Dewitt's want to move the Cardinals or sell the Cardinals nobody's going to stand in their way. And I hope to goodness it never happens but it just doesn't look right. And as to me only having two posts on this forum I used to post here a lot but I got sick of the bullying by a few self entitled/important/informed members whose names I still recognize on here. So I quit posting and even looking at this forum for a few years. Who needs it.

[CCard]

Moron

0.00% chance the Cardinals EVER leave St. Louis

Especially with all the investment around and including the stadium. STL will be home for the duration Rock. Unless, like I mentioned earlier, they get approval for the 'Disney " park in East St. Louis to break ground. Then Bill may pack it in.

MLB would NEVER, EVER approve one of their CROWN JEWEL FRANCHISES w/more baseball history, championships and tradition than any team in MLB not named the NY Yankees!

(And St. Louis blew it back in the early 1960's zuck' when Walt Disney himself wanted to turn the river front where the Arch was bring built into his next theme park and August Busch used his muscle to deny him because Walt didn't want beer sold in the proposed park)

Brooklyn Dodgers, New York Giants, Oakland A's....nah...Baseball would never let that happen.

NO COMPARISON since you're posting second class teams, including two that were based in NYC along w/the Yankees making three teams in one city.

PLUS MLB WANTED desperately to expand west into California and was more than happy to okay the Dodgers and Giants going westward hooooooooo..

The A's had the worst fan support for decades and played in the worst stadium in MLB, bad example.

In the Cardinals you're talking about one of the Top 3 iconic franchises in MLB history, one that drew over 3+M for over two decades in little old St. Lou!

This would be like MLB allowing the Yankees to leave NY for NJ or the Cubs to leave Chicago for Indiana.

NEVER, EVER happening.

Anyone who thinks it would is a moron.

The Cardinals probably won't move, I agree. But the argument that MLB's Billionaire boys club wouldn't let them move is absolutely silly and asinine. The Cards are an inonic team brand, but so are the Braves that moved from Boston. So are the other teams. There's enough population in NY to support more teams than they have, the same with California. Missouri is not a high population state and apparently can't even support an NFL team. Before calling anyone a moron maybe you should inhale a deep breath, look in the mirror and ask yourself "Am I the moron?" If you think about it long enough you might just grab the tail of an idea.

[CCard]

Moron

0.00% chance the Cardinals EVER leave St. Louis

Especially with all the investment around and including the stadium. STL will be home for the duration Rock. Unless, like I mentioned earlier, they get approval for the 'Disney " park in East St. Louis to break ground. Then Bill may pack it in.

MLB would NEVER, EVER approve one of their CROWN JEWEL FRANCHISES w/more baseball history, championships and tradition than any team in MLB not named the NY Yankees!

(And St. Louis blew it back in the early 1960's zuck' when Walt Disney himself wanted to turn the river front where the Arch was bring built into his next theme park and August Busch used his muscle to deny him because Walt didn't want beer sold in the proposed park)

Brooklyn Dodgers, New York Giants, Oakland A's....nah...Baseball would never let that happen.

Do you understand how different those 3 situations were from the St. Louis Cardinals of today? IF not you are dumber than a bag of hammers.

Please...explain it for me. While you're at it maybe you can explain why teams in other sports move also. If DeWitt decided to move the Cardinals to Tennessee or Oklahoma what could be done about it? I would say two of those three teams have a larger attendance than the Cardinals. After this year it'll be even more of a disparity. Every team that's ever moved thought they wouldn't. Until they did.

First: In 2022 the St. Louis Cardinals attendance was second in MLB. Only the Dodgers were better. For many years the Cardinals were top 5 in attendance in MLB. Yes the last 2 seasons the crowds have diminished, for obvious reasons, but even in 2024 they drew more than the cubs, who play in the 3rd largest city in the USA.

Second: Everybody who knows anything about baseball knew the A's were going to move from Oakland. They had been trying to do so for years. They wanted to move to San Jose but the Giants prevented that from happening. The Athletics are now in their 4th location in their history, soon to be in their 5th. Comparing that franchise to the St. Louis Cardinals is the height of stupidity. The Giants and Dodgers were second and third fiddle to the Yankees in NYC and played in stadiums that were crumbling. The lure of the Golden State was too much to ignore, and it was not at all a surprise when they moved.

Third: The Cardinals almost moved in the 50's. They did not own their stadium, the Browns did, the Cardinals had to pay them to play there. The owner of the Cardinals was not too bright, but he eventually sold the team to Gussie Busch in February 1953, which saved the team from moving. Predictably the lousy Browns sold Sportsman's Park to Busch in April and moved to Baltimore after the '53 season. The Cardinal franchise has thrived ever since. They have built two new stadiums in that time and won 5 World Series. The current stadium is just 20 years old and even though DeWitt wants financial help with renovation, it is still an excellent ballpark - newer and better than most in MLB.

Thanks for making my argument. The fact of the matter is the city or state doesn't own the Cardinals. Their billionaire owners can move or sell them anytime they want to. They've drawn a lot of attendance over the last couple of decades because they were competitive. Now, through the action of the billionaire owner, they are not competitive. He doesn't intend for them to be competitive. Why? Does he want attendance to drop for some reason? There are any number of cities or states that would love to lure the Cardinals away. Don't confuse fan loyalty with billionaire loyalty.

[CCard]

MLB isn't letting anyone move the Cardinals out of St. Louis.

If there are other markets where MLB could see a team existing, they'll add an expansion franchise long before they let the Cardinals move.

Please articulate that this is just your feeling. You have no actual proof. No DeWitt or anyone from the MLB has said they won't ever move the team or be allowed to move the team. In your opinion the Cards are too important to move, but not important enough to field a competitive team. I'm sure at one point the fans of the Braves, Dodgers, Giants, A's, etc thought the same way. "Not here."

The MLB owners don't profit much, if at all, from the Cardinals moving out of St. Louis, because St. Louis is a very viable market (demonstrated ability to draw 3+ million in attendance, etc.). They profit from selling the rights to an expansion franchise.

They would most likely get a fee from the Cardinals to every team for moving. So they would profit. Also the fan base will see a big drop because of poor product and losing.

[rockondlouie]

Moron

0.00% chance the Cardinals EVER leave St. Louis

Especially with all the investment around and including the stadium. STL will be home for the duration Rock. Unless, like I mentioned earlier, they get approval for the 'Disney " park in East St. Louis to break ground. Then Bill may pack it in.

MLB would NEVER, EVER approve one of their CROWN JEWEL FRANCHISES w/more baseball history, championships and tradition than any team in MLB not named the NY Yankees!

(And St. Louis blew it back in the early 1960's zuck' when Walt Disney himself wanted to turn the river front where the Arch was bring built into his next theme park and August Busch used his muscle to deny him because Walt didn't want beer sold in the proposed park)

Brooklyn Dodgers, New York Giants, Oakland A's....nah...Baseball would never let that happen.

NO COMPARISON since you're posting second class teams, including two that were based in NYC along w/the Yankees making three teams in one city.

PLUS MLB WANTED desperately to expand west into California and was more than happy to okay the Dodgers and Giants going westward hooooooooo..

The A's had the worst fan support for decades and played in the worst stadium in MLB, bad example.

In the Cardinals you're talking about one of the Top 3 iconic franchises in MLB history, one that drew over 3+M for over two decades in little old St. Lou!

This would be like MLB allowing the Yankees to leave NY for NJ or the Cubs to leave Chicago for Indiana.

NEVER, EVER happening.

Anyone who thinks it would is a moron.

The Cardinals probably won't move, I agree. But the argument that MLB's Billionaire boys club wouldn't let them move is absolutely silly and asinine. The Cards are an inonic team brand, but so are the Braves that moved from Boston. So are the other teams. There's enough population in NY to support more teams than they have, the same with California. Missouri is not a high population state and apparently can't even support an NFL team. Before calling anyone a moron maybe you should inhale a deep breath, look in the mirror and ask yourself "Am I the moron?" If you think about it long enough you might just grab the tail of an idea.

What's asinine is not understanding the MLB "Billionaire boys club" would NEVER, EVER let the Cardinals leave St. Louis.

The Boston Braves were NOT AN ICONIC FRANCHISE!

The Cardinals are in the UPPER PANTHEON of MLB teams, only the NY Yankees sit above them.

Just to educate you the Cardinals draw from one of the largest territories in MLB, drawing hundreds of thousands of fans to Busch Stadium from more states than any team in MLB, St. Louis' metro population of 2.8+M is the cherry on top.

Anyone who thinks the Cardinals will ever move is a MORON........repeat a MORON.

Stop being a MORON.