renostl wrote: ↑23 Jan 2026 22:36 pm
There are not any Cardinals SP with a single full MLB season in the books but AP.
Exactly, there are a lot of CT posters who have not comprehended how thin and inexperienced the Cards SP will be in 2026 after adding May, Fitts, Dobbins to replace Gray, Mikolas, Fedde, Matz.
The entire 2026 pitching staff has a total of 5 seasons throwing over 55 IP as a starter in a MLB season. However, suddenly in 2026, they will somehow need to cover 900 innings!
Also, May and Pallante are the only starting pitchers who have ever posted an ERA under 4.20 in any season.
ERA IP Year Pitcher 5.31 163 2025 Pallante 4.21 152 2025 Liberatore 5.20 125 2025 May 3.56 111 2024 Pallante 4.70 90 2025 McGreevy 3.98 54 2022 Pallante 4.25 53 2025 Dobbins 5.88 49 2023 Liberatore 2.63 48 2023 May 2.89 47 2020 May
Also, it is odd how Liberatore gets a pass in 2025 for being gassed in late 2025 while Pallante gets no mercy.
CCard wrote: ↑23 Jan 2026 17:56 pm
Garbage in garbage out. Keep signing slop and don't be surprised when it gets sloppy.
It’s not garbage if they pitch well and you flip them for prospects. I get you don’t like living in reality, but this is where Mo left the state of the franchise.
Your reality....We'll get or trade for cheap blue chip prospects, then when they become special we'll flip or trade them for even more blue plate specials. LOL How'd that work out for all the other MLB teams? That Cubs dynasty lasted a long time didn't it? Houston's garbage can scandal lasted a long time didn't it? What other teams have won through the vaunted system of flipping assets and tanking?
Nowhere in my post did I say to take the guys we got a flip them when they are established MLB players. I only mentioned singing the players now and flipping them for pieces to help us compete when that window opens.
You mean the mythical window where they give us their top picks for our players that are making more money and have less control? Fantasy land if you think you can build a winner this way. It helps to get some young players no doubt, but if you don't spend money you might as well be a minor league club.
CCard wrote: ↑23 Jan 2026 17:56 pm
Garbage in garbage out. Keep signing slop and don't be surprised when it gets sloppy.
It’s not garbage if they pitch well and you flip them for prospects. I get you don’t like living in reality, but this is where Mo left the state of the franchise.
Your reality....We'll get or trade for cheap blue chip prospects, then when they become special we'll flip or trade them for even more blue plate specials. LOL How'd that work out for all the other MLB teams? That Cubs dynasty lasted a long time didn't it? Houston's garbage can scandal lasted a long time didn't it? What other teams have won through the vaunted system of flipping assets and tanking?
Nowhere in my post did I say to take the guys we got a flip them when they are established MLB players. I only mentioned singing the players now and flipping them for pieces to help us compete when that window opens.
You mean the mythical window where they give us their top picks for our players that are making more money and have less control? Fantasy land if you think you can build a winner this way. It helps to get some young players no doubt, but if you don't spend money you might as well be a minor league club.
Never did I say this was going to be a massive success without an increase in payroll when the time is right.
We first needed the reset and to rebuild a farm system. We need that farm system to continue to develop. Once the young core is in place you can take some of the excess prospects for more experience talent and at that point also start spending on high end free agents.
If DeWitt is going to keep payroll down for the next four or five years this will be a failure, if he allows proper spending when the time is right than this should be extremely successful.
No where above doesn't anyone mention trade for top prospects. You flip for an equal type with more control.
The more options the greater the percentile the one or more will succeed.
That's what he was stating.
I want to believe most on here understand that, it has been being done for decades by all teams. It's nothing new or unique.
renostl wrote: ↑23 Jan 2026 22:36 pm
There are not any Cardinals SP with a single full MLB season in the books but AP.
Exactly, there are a lot of CT posters who have not comprehended how thin and inexperienced the Cards SP will be in 2026 after adding May, Fitts, Dobbins to replace Gray, Mikolas, Fedde, Matz.
The entire 2026 pitching staff has a total of 5 seasons throwing over 55 IP as a starter in a MLB season. However, suddenly in 2026, they will somehow need to cover 900 innings!
Also, May and Pallante are the only starting pitchers who have ever posted an ERA under 4.20 in any season.
ERA IP Year Pitcher 5.31 163 2025 Pallante 4.21 152 2025 Liberatore 5.20 125 2025 May 3.56 111 2024 Pallante 4.70 90 2025 McGreevy 3.98 54 2022 Pallante 4.25 53 2025 Dobbins 5.88 49 2023 Liberatore 2.63 48 2023 May 2.89 47 2020 May
Also, it is odd how Liberatore gets a pass in 2025 for being gassed in late 2025 while Pallante gets no mercy.
The Cards were amazingly healthy in the 2025 rotation.
Usually being 7-8 deep is needed and IF the Cards are uncomfortable
with #7 being brough up it would be prudent to add.
Libs made a big jump going to 150 IPs in an age of 170+ is full. He'd have close 200
on that early season pace if maintained. He did respond with rest. We'll see I guess.
AP needs adjustments. That WHIP hasn't shown any progression, abbreviated story,
of a pitcher without a outpitch and control issues putting him behind in the count.
CCard wrote: ↑23 Jan 2026 17:56 pm
Garbage in garbage out. Keep signing slop and don't be surprised when it gets sloppy.
No one who’s been remotely paying attention would be surprised. Are you new to following the Cardinals??
50 years.
Actually with you on this one.
May satisfies the 1 year wonder role.
There are not any Cardinals SP with a single full MLB season in the books but AP.
I would not sign anybody who doesn't warrant signing for more than a season, preferably 3.
For the flip them crowd. Any productive SP with contract that matches is flippable more so from a higher self. Give the in vogue option outs. If they have a QO attached they use it to try FA without one.
Why would anyone want to flip a productive cheap pitcher? I mean it doesn't make sense.
Are you saying that you haven't read multiple comments from people who have suggested
players as flip candidates, May for instance?
Bassitt started 31 games last year and was 11-9. He averaged just under a K per inning. IMHO, he would be a positive pick up.
Yup, exactly why I suggested him. My guess is he is waiting for an opportunity from a contending team, but its getting towards the end of January and there are A LOT of free agents still unsigned, especially veteran arms (starters and bullpen guys).
Quintana is another good suggestion as someone who I think would sign a 1-year deal here.
StlMike1969 wrote: ↑23 Jan 2026 21:00 pm
I am okay with the current staff choices. Competition breeds success and surprises. Tired of washed up so so veterans. If the guy is only good for a 4.00 ERA then let it be a young guy with room to improve. Why stifle talent in the minors while some 33 year old on a short contract gives you a 4+ era? Let the kids play.
I agree with this more than most other answers.
That’s why having Hampson on the team last year aggravated me so much.
CCard wrote: ↑23 Jan 2026 17:56 pm
Garbage in garbage out. Keep signing slop and don't be surprised when it gets sloppy.
No one who’s been remotely paying attention would be surprised. Are you new to following the Cardinals??
50 years.
Actually with you on this one.
May satisfies the 1 year wonder role.
There are not any Cardinals SP with a single full MLB season in the books but AP.
I would not sign anybody who doesn't warrant signing for more than a season, preferably 3.
For the flip them crowd. Any productive SP with contract that matches is flippable more so from a higher self. Give the in vogue option outs. If they have a QO attached they use it to try FA without one.
Why would anyone want to flip a productive cheap pitcher? I mean it doesn't make sense.
Are you saying that you haven't read multiple comments from people who have suggested
players as flip candidates, May for instance?
That is certainly the new business model people have been suggesting. Sign a player that does well and get rid of him immediately.
CCard wrote: ↑23 Jan 2026 17:56 pm
Garbage in garbage out. Keep signing slop and don't be surprised when it gets sloppy.
No one who’s been remotely paying attention would be surprised. Are you new to following the Cardinals??
50 years.
Actually with you on this one.
May satisfies the 1 year wonder role.
There are not any Cardinals SP with a single full MLB season in the books but AP.
I would not sign anybody who doesn't warrant signing for more than a season, preferably 3.
For the flip them crowd. Any productive SP with contract that matches is flippable more so from a higher self. Give the in vogue option outs. If they have a QO attached they use it to try FA without one.
Why would anyone want to flip a productive cheap pitcher? I mean it doesn't make sense.
Are you saying that you haven't read multiple comments from people who have suggested
players as flip candidates, May for instance?
Are you suggesting trading away cheap productive talent?
CCard wrote: ↑23 Jan 2026 17:56 pm
Garbage in garbage out. Keep signing slop and don't be surprised when it gets sloppy.
It’s not garbage if they pitch well and you flip them for prospects. I get you don’t like living in reality, but this is where Mo left the state of the franchise.
Your reality....We'll get or trade for cheap blue chip prospects, then when they become special we'll flip or trade them for even more blue plate specials. LOL How'd that work out for all the other MLB teams? That Cubs dynasty lasted a long time didn't it? Houston's garbage can scandal lasted a long time didn't it? What other teams have won through the vaunted system of flipping assets and tanking?
Nowhere in my post did I say to take the guys we got a flip them when they are established MLB players. I only mentioned singing the players now and flipping them for pieces to help us compete when that window opens.
You mean the mythical window where they give us their top picks for our players that are making more money and have less control? Fantasy land if you think you can build a winner this way. It helps to get some young players no doubt, but if you don't spend money you might as well be a minor league club.
Never did I say this was going to be a massive success without an increase in payroll when the time is right.
We first needed the reset and to rebuild a farm system. We need that farm system to continue to develop. Once the young core is in place you can take some of the excess prospects for more experience talent and at that point also start spending on high end free agents.
If DeWitt is going to keep payroll down for the next four or five years this will be a failure, if he allows proper spending when the time is right than this should be extremely successful.
You mean the farm system that so terrible that the Springfield Cardinals won the championship?
You flip Romero now because you don't control him for 2027 and you will lose him for nothing.
You flip May at the July 2026 trade deadline because you don't control him for 2027 and you will lose him for nothing.
You flip Stanik at the July 2026 trade because you don't control him for 2027 and you will lose him for nothing.
You flip Donovan now or at the 2026 trade deadline because you don't control him for 2028 and you will lose him for nothing.
You flip Nootbar now or at the 2026 trade deadline because you don't control him for 2028 and you will lose him for nothing.
Keep in mind that there will likely be a lockout on 01 Dec 2026 and teams will not be able to make trade during next offseason... so you can't wait until then to trade Donovan or Nootbar.
