How much money will DeWitt and company lose with 3-5 years of tanking?

[Ozziesfan41]

Can we all at least come to an agreement that the Cards had an imbecile or at least someone who was being told what to do by ownership acting as an imbecile that got the org in this position many of you keep referring to……”this is what we’ve been doing for years, adding vets, doing that and it’s failed”……WELL ITS FAILED BECAUSE THEY MADE THE WRONG PLAYERS CHOICES. It isn’t because the spent $$$ if was because they spent it on the
WRONG players….its because they waste years of MLB starter time these prospect who become nothing. It’s not because finding the right FA and right trade talent doesn’t work. It’s because the Cardinals/MO didn’t find the right FA, the correct prospects to keep, the correct trade return. But now all you think that going this route just can’t work going forward……BECAUSE IDIOTS HAVE SCREWED THIS PROCESS UP FOR 5-6 YRS

Well the cardinals can’t and won’t be able to spend their way out of the mess mo got them into. Mo was awful no debate there and Dewitt was an idiot for keeping him around as long as it did but theirs is no way the cardinals can fix this team by spending. The only way to fix it is to be able to produce players that actually contribute then spend money to augment them with free agents. You don’t like the rebuild I knew you wouldn’t you wouldn’t like anything the cardinals did anyway so no surprise there. Cardinals signed gray and Contreras you complained cardinals traded gray and Contreras you complained

Oz
I suggested he take up knitting, stamp or coin collecting.
Don’t think he has the stomach for team sports???

lol no kidding or just play video game baseball where he can be GM and trade burly and a catching prospect for tatis and spend unlimited money on every player he wants to of course he would probably still complain about the moves he makes

All your playful banter back and forth is highly entertaining…..but other than repeating the Cards party line…..why are you so cocksure that this exact plan you think is being implemented will transform the org into the promise land? Faith, Hope??

Because the plan of destroying the develop system in order to sign mediocre and mid tier free agents has failed spectacularly when what you’re doing fails over and over you have to try something else and I get it you think fixing the farm system and the development system so it produces productive players is a bad thing I don’t. And why do I think it will work? Because it’s a rational plan it’s a smart plan it’s a clear direction which they never had before.

The PLAN wasn’t to destroy the development system. Listen REALLY CLOSELY HERE:
For some unknown disillusioned reason BDW/MO thought they were the secret sauce brilliant brain trust after the amazing Pujols/TLR/Dunc fueled success between 2000-2011
They hired an unproven controllable Manager in Matheny
They brought in an analytics GM
They gutted old school scouts, coaches, directors in the minor leagues.
Mo wanted to be the new age Branch Rickey and went about it destroying decades of Cardinals Way George Kissel baseball fundamentals.
They fired Matheny, brought in another unknown who they thought they could control, they fired him and hired a 35yr old nobody and a college pitching coach.
We all now see what their PLAN has produced. This has nothing to do with not being able to have vibrant minor leagues system while PAYING some VETS on the ML Team.
You are a brainwashed lackey if you actually believe what you typed.

You literally just confirmed exactly what I said. I said they gutted the development system and no longer were able develop players that were ready you wanted to argue and confirmed exactly what I said by saying they gutted scouts coaches and directors in the minor leagues then accuse me of
Being a brainwashed lackey when u agreed with me lol they are now fixing what mo broke he even admitted he gutted the minors development to spend on the majors and MM sucked so there’s that

You’re brainwashed with this notion that they couldn’t have a robust minor league system AND VET MLB TALENT. It has nothing to do with money. BDW/MO thought that the organization only needed them and some wonderful analytics program to cultivate a winning team. You still believe BDW can’t have a 180mil payroll while building a minor league system. You’ve written it many times over the last few weeks.

They can and will. But first they have to rebuild the team that can actually win and that means developing a core you can spend to build around. Gray is not a core piece Contreras was not a core piece Donovan is not a core piece they are players you sign to supplement a good core. You’ve been completely brainwashed to believe this team is one or two moves away from being able to actually win something you are wrong very wrong. And as I have said repeatedly they will be spending more money this offseason you’re the only one saying they aren’t going to spend anymore money. And you’ve also been brainwashed into thinking every player will hurry up and sign with a team that is rebuilding

Congratulations! That's a thoughtful, cogent, logical and sensible post.

Too bad the willfully ignorant will not even attempt to understand or comprehend it.

Herrera
Burly
Winn
JJ
Scott
Must be throwaways then?? Because this current team could field 6-7 then add a very highly paid 2x30mil players and you would have a rather robust lineup.
Add another 30mil SP
30mil
May
Libby
McGreevy
Dobbins
Your back to 170-180mil
Heck maybe you keep Donny
You’re winning games, fans are back in park, and Bloom can still rebuild farm.
Unless the current Cards listed are trash to you??? Then I guess you need to build an entire starting 9 from Bloom farm
There’s a step in your plan that where either you play the boys already here and add FA’s or you don’t think they’re good enough, like you said, and you need to replace 6-7 starters from Bloom Farm and then you spend $$ on FA’s. I say the 6 already here can win with some elite talent

Hes going to get another starter he’s going to get another bat possibly two more bats more money will be spent so stop crying

[imyourhuckleberry]

Oz
I suggested he take up knitting, stamp or coin collecting.
Don’t think he has the stomach for team sports???

lol no kidding or just play video game baseball where he can be GM and trade burly and a catching prospect for tatis and spend unlimited money on every player he wants to of course he would probably still complain about the moves he makes

All your playful banter back and forth is highly entertaining…..but other than repeating the Cards party line…..why are you so cocksure that this exact plan you think is being implemented will transform the org into the promise land? Faith, Hope??

Because the plan of destroying the develop system in order to sign mediocre and mid tier free agents has failed spectacularly when what you’re doing fails over and over you have to try something else and I get it you think fixing the farm system and the development system so it produces productive players is a bad thing I don’t. And why do I think it will work? Because it’s a rational plan it’s a smart plan it’s a clear direction which they never had before.

The PLAN wasn’t to destroy the development system. Listen REALLY CLOSELY HERE:
For some unknown disillusioned reason BDW/MO thought they were the secret sauce brilliant brain trust after the amazing Pujols/TLR/Dunc fueled success between 2000-2011
They hired an unproven controllable Manager in Matheny
They brought in an analytics GM
They gutted old school scouts, coaches, directors in the minor leagues.
Mo wanted to be the new age Branch Rickey and went about it destroying decades of Cardinals Way George Kissel baseball fundamentals.
They fired Matheny, brought in another unknown who they thought they could control, they fired him and hired a 35yr old nobody and a college pitching coach.
We all now see what their PLAN has produced. This has nothing to do with not being able to have vibrant minor leagues system while PAYING some VETS on the ML Team.
You are a brainwashed lackey if you actually believe what you typed.

You literally just confirmed exactly what I said. I said they gutted the development system and no longer were able develop players that were ready you wanted to argue and confirmed exactly what I said by saying they gutted scouts coaches and directors in the minor leagues then accuse me of
Being a brainwashed lackey when u agreed with me lol they are now fixing what mo broke he even admitted he gutted the minors development to spend on the majors and MM sucked so there’s that

You’re brainwashed with this notion that they couldn’t have a robust minor league system AND VET MLB TALENT. It has nothing to do with money. BDW/MO thought that the organization only needed them and some wonderful analytics program to cultivate a winning team. You still believe BDW can’t have a 180mil payroll while building a minor league system. You’ve written it many times over the last few weeks.

They can and will. But first they have to rebuild the team that can actually win and that means developing a core you can spend to build around. Gray is not a core piece Contreras was not a core piece Donovan is not a core piece they are players you sign to supplement a good core. You’ve been completely brainwashed to believe this team is one or two moves away from being able to actually win something you are wrong very wrong. And as I have said repeatedly they will be spending more money this offseason you’re the only one saying they aren’t going to spend anymore money. And you’ve also been brainwashed into thinking every player will hurry up and sign with a team that is rebuilding

Congratulations! That's a thoughtful, cogent, logical and sensible post.

Too bad the willfully ignorant will not even attempt to understand or comprehend it.

Herrera
Burly
Winn
JJ
Scott
Must be throwaways then?? Because this current team could field 6-7 then add a very highly paid 2x30mil players and you would have a rather robust lineup.
Add another 30mil SP
30mil
May
Libby
McGreevy
Dobbins
Your back to 170-180mil
Heck maybe you keep Donny
You’re winning games, fans are back in park, and Bloom can still rebuild farm.
Unless the current Cards listed are trash to you??? Then I guess you need to build an entire starting 9 from Bloom farm
There’s a step in your plan that where either you play the boys already here and add FA’s or you don’t think they’re good enough, like you said, and you need to replace 6-7 starters from Bloom Farm and then you spend $$ on FA’s. I say the 6 already here can win with some elite talent

Who are these two mystery $30M players you have in mind? What is your backup plan if one or both don't want to sign here? What if they want $35 or $40M to come here. Do you go that high? How many years? And with those contracts, they'll definitely command no trade protections. Do you grant that too? Aren't we trying to get out from under NTCs? If not, who are your back up $30M players?

Who is this $30M pitcher you're adding? Now apply the same questions for the above players. Who is your backup $30M pitcher?

Only a simpleton says, 'just sign X guys for X dollars' without putting actual names and contract details in place.

Sorry, man but you're wrong. They must re-build from the bottom up and then go buy (or acquire via trade) the final piece(s) to put them over the top. Otherwise they'll just be spinning the wheels like they've been doing for the last 10 years.

I’ve been asking the same questions. Name names of who you want.

Yeah, I know. And so does Goldfan. He knows he's being a willfully ignorant, belligerent, pig-headed troll. Shame on me for allowing myself to be sucked in and giving him his much sought after attention.

Having said that, I'd love to know the names of his $30M men and his back-up $30M men. But he'll never have the sack to go out on that limb.

[Goldfan]

Oz
I suggested he take up knitting, stamp or coin collecting.
Don’t think he has the stomach for team sports???

lol no kidding or just play video game baseball where he can be GM and trade burly and a catching prospect for tatis and spend unlimited money on every player he wants to of course he would probably still complain about the moves he makes

All your playful banter back and forth is highly entertaining…..but other than repeating the Cards party line…..why are you so cocksure that this exact plan you think is being implemented will transform the org into the promise land? Faith, Hope??

Because the plan of destroying the develop system in order to sign mediocre and mid tier free agents has failed spectacularly when what you’re doing fails over and over you have to try something else and I get it you think fixing the farm system and the development system so it produces productive players is a bad thing I don’t. And why do I think it will work? Because it’s a rational plan it’s a smart plan it’s a clear direction which they never had before.

The PLAN wasn’t to destroy the development system. Listen REALLY CLOSELY HERE:
For some unknown disillusioned reason BDW/MO thought they were the secret sauce brilliant brain trust after the amazing Pujols/TLR/Dunc fueled success between 2000-2011
They hired an unproven controllable Manager in Matheny
They brought in an analytics GM
They gutted old school scouts, coaches, directors in the minor leagues.
Mo wanted to be the new age Branch Rickey and went about it destroying decades of Cardinals Way George Kissel baseball fundamentals.
They fired Matheny, brought in another unknown who they thought they could control, they fired him and hired a 35yr old nobody and a college pitching coach.
We all now see what their PLAN has produced. This has nothing to do with not being able to have vibrant minor leagues system while PAYING some VETS on the ML Team.
You are a brainwashed lackey if you actually believe what you typed.

You literally just confirmed exactly what I said. I said they gutted the development system and no longer were able develop players that were ready you wanted to argue and confirmed exactly what I said by saying they gutted scouts coaches and directors in the minor leagues then accuse me of
Being a brainwashed lackey when u agreed with me lol they are now fixing what mo broke he even admitted he gutted the minors development to spend on the majors and MM sucked so there’s that

You’re brainwashed with this notion that they couldn’t have a robust minor league system AND VET MLB TALENT. It has nothing to do with money. BDW/MO thought that the organization only needed them and some wonderful analytics program to cultivate a winning team. You still believe BDW can’t have a 180mil payroll while building a minor league system. You’ve written it many times over the last few weeks.

They can and will. But first they have to rebuild the team that can actually win and that means developing a core you can spend to build around. Gray is not a core piece Contreras was not a core piece Donovan is not a core piece they are players you sign to supplement a good core. You’ve been completely brainwashed to believe this team is one or two moves away from being able to actually win something you are wrong very wrong. And as I have said repeatedly they will be spending more money this offseason you’re the only one saying they aren’t going to spend anymore money. And you’ve also been brainwashed into thinking every player will hurry up and sign with a team that is rebuilding

Congratulations! That's a thoughtful, cogent, logical and sensible post.

Too bad the willfully ignorant will not even attempt to understand or comprehend it.

Herrera
Burly
Winn
JJ
Scott
Must be throwaways then?? Because this current team could field 6-7 then add a very highly paid 2x30mil players and you would have a rather robust lineup.
Add another 30mil SP
30mil
May
Libby
McGreevy
Dobbins
Your back to 170-180mil
Heck maybe you keep Donny
You’re winning games, fans are back in park, and Bloom can still rebuild farm.
Unless the current Cards listed are trash to you??? Then I guess you need to build an entire starting 9 from Bloom farm
There’s a step in your plan that where either you play the boys already here and add FA’s or you don’t think they’re good enough, like you said, and you need to replace 6-7 starters from Bloom Farm and then you spend $$ on FA’s. I say the 6 already here can win with some elite talent

Who are these two mystery $30M players you have in mind? What is your backup plan if one or both don't want to sign here? What if they want $35 or $40M to come here. Do you go that high? How many years? And with those contracts, they'll definitely command no trade protections. Do you grant that too? Aren't we trying to get out from under NTCs? If not, who are your back up $30M players?

Who is this $30M pitcher you're adding? Now apply the same questions for the above players. Who is your backup $30M pitcher?

Only a simpleton says, 'just sign X guys for X dollars' without putting actual names and contract details in place.

Sorry, man but you're wrong. They must re-build from the bottom up and then go buy (or acquire via trade) the final piece(s) to put them over the top. Otherwise they'll just be spinning the wheels like they've been doing for the last 10 years.

I’ve been asking the same questions. Name names of who you want.

I named names at the beginning of FA…..I submitted lineups several times.
Here’s the thing you have to claim that the young core here now is no good so we can’t add $$ FA to make it a complete team and that they will be mostly replaced by Bloom Farm in the future and THEN they’ll add $$ FA’s…..doing so would indicate that you know that the future players will be appreciably better. And how could ANYONE know that?? Either spend $$$ now or wait for something to materialize…that may never happen and then spend money.
Donny
Winn
Herrera
Burly
JJ
Gorman
Scott could actually win some games with the right help….but lets waste that talent for 2,3,4, yrs and wait on something not even in the org AND then spend $$$

[Cardinals1964]

lol no kidding or just play video game baseball where he can be GM and trade burly and a catching prospect for tatis and spend unlimited money on every player he wants to of course he would probably still complain about the moves he makes

All your playful banter back and forth is highly entertaining…..but other than repeating the Cards party line…..why are you so cocksure that this exact plan you think is being implemented will transform the org into the promise land? Faith, Hope??

Because the plan of destroying the develop system in order to sign mediocre and mid tier free agents has failed spectacularly when what you’re doing fails over and over you have to try something else and I get it you think fixing the farm system and the development system so it produces productive players is a bad thing I don’t. And why do I think it will work? Because it’s a rational plan it’s a smart plan it’s a clear direction which they never had before.

The PLAN wasn’t to destroy the development system. Listen REALLY CLOSELY HERE:
For some unknown disillusioned reason BDW/MO thought they were the secret sauce brilliant brain trust after the amazing Pujols/TLR/Dunc fueled success between 2000-2011
They hired an unproven controllable Manager in Matheny
They brought in an analytics GM
They gutted old school scouts, coaches, directors in the minor leagues.
Mo wanted to be the new age Branch Rickey and went about it destroying decades of Cardinals Way George Kissel baseball fundamentals.
They fired Matheny, brought in another unknown who they thought they could control, they fired him and hired a 35yr old nobody and a college pitching coach.
We all now see what their PLAN has produced. This has nothing to do with not being able to have vibrant minor leagues system while PAYING some VETS on the ML Team.
You are a brainwashed lackey if you actually believe what you typed.

You literally just confirmed exactly what I said. I said they gutted the development system and no longer were able develop players that were ready you wanted to argue and confirmed exactly what I said by saying they gutted scouts coaches and directors in the minor leagues then accuse me of
Being a brainwashed lackey when u agreed with me lol they are now fixing what mo broke he even admitted he gutted the minors development to spend on the majors and MM sucked so there’s that

You’re brainwashed with this notion that they couldn’t have a robust minor league system AND VET MLB TALENT. It has nothing to do with money. BDW/MO thought that the organization only needed them and some wonderful analytics program to cultivate a winning team. You still believe BDW can’t have a 180mil payroll while building a minor league system. You’ve written it many times over the last few weeks.

They can and will. But first they have to rebuild the team that can actually win and that means developing a core you can spend to build around. Gray is not a core piece Contreras was not a core piece Donovan is not a core piece they are players you sign to supplement a good core. You’ve been completely brainwashed to believe this team is one or two moves away from being able to actually win something you are wrong very wrong. And as I have said repeatedly they will be spending more money this offseason you’re the only one saying they aren’t going to spend anymore money. And you’ve also been brainwashed into thinking every player will hurry up and sign with a team that is rebuilding

Congratulations! That's a thoughtful, cogent, logical and sensible post.

Too bad the willfully ignorant will not even attempt to understand or comprehend it.

Herrera
Burly
Winn
JJ
Scott
Must be throwaways then?? Because this current team could field 6-7 then add a very highly paid 2x30mil players and you would have a rather robust lineup.
Add another 30mil SP
30mil
May
Libby
McGreevy
Dobbins
Your back to 170-180mil
Heck maybe you keep Donny
You’re winning games, fans are back in park, and Bloom can still rebuild farm.
Unless the current Cards listed are trash to you??? Then I guess you need to build an entire starting 9 from Bloom farm
There’s a step in your plan that where either you play the boys already here and add FA’s or you don’t think they’re good enough, like you said, and you need to replace 6-7 starters from Bloom Farm and then you spend $$ on FA’s. I say the 6 already here can win with some elite talent

Who are these two mystery $30M players you have in mind? What is your backup plan if one or both don't want to sign here? What if they want $35 or $40M to come here. Do you go that high? How many years? And with those contracts, they'll definitely command no trade protections. Do you grant that too? Aren't we trying to get out from under NTCs? If not, who are your back up $30M players?

Who is this $30M pitcher you're adding? Now apply the same questions for the above players. Who is your backup $30M pitcher?

Only a simpleton says, 'just sign X guys for X dollars' without putting actual names and contract details in place.

Sorry, man but you're wrong. They must re-build from the bottom up and then go buy (or acquire via trade) the final piece(s) to put them over the top. Otherwise they'll just be spinning the wheels like they've been doing for the last 10 years.

I’ve been asking the same questions. Name names of who you want.

I named names at the beginning of FA…..I submitted lineups several times.
Here’s the thing you have to claim that the young core here now is no good so we can’t add $$ FA to make it a complete team and that they will be mostly replaced by Bloom Farm in the future and THEN they’ll add $$ FA’s…..doing so would indicate that you know that the future players will be appreciably better. And how could ANYONE know that?? Either spend $$$ now or wait for something to materialize…that may never happen and then spend money.
Donny
Winn
Herrera
Burly
JJ
Gorman
Scott could actually win some games with the right help….but lets waste that talent for 2,3,4, yrs and wait on something not even in the org AND then spend $$$

I’ll bet some CT geniuses hated the Drew for Wainwright trade.

[Ozziesfan41]

lol no kidding or just play video game baseball where he can be GM and trade burly and a catching prospect for tatis and spend unlimited money on every player he wants to of course he would probably still complain about the moves he makes

All your playful banter back and forth is highly entertaining…..but other than repeating the Cards party line…..why are you so cocksure that this exact plan you think is being implemented will transform the org into the promise land? Faith, Hope??

Because the plan of destroying the develop system in order to sign mediocre and mid tier free agents has failed spectacularly when what you’re doing fails over and over you have to try something else and I get it you think fixing the farm system and the development system so it produces productive players is a bad thing I don’t. And why do I think it will work? Because it’s a rational plan it’s a smart plan it’s a clear direction which they never had before.

The PLAN wasn’t to destroy the development system. Listen REALLY CLOSELY HERE:
For some unknown disillusioned reason BDW/MO thought they were the secret sauce brilliant brain trust after the amazing Pujols/TLR/Dunc fueled success between 2000-2011
They hired an unproven controllable Manager in Matheny
They brought in an analytics GM
They gutted old school scouts, coaches, directors in the minor leagues.
Mo wanted to be the new age Branch Rickey and went about it destroying decades of Cardinals Way George Kissel baseball fundamentals.
They fired Matheny, brought in another unknown who they thought they could control, they fired him and hired a 35yr old nobody and a college pitching coach.
We all now see what their PLAN has produced. This has nothing to do with not being able to have vibrant minor leagues system while PAYING some VETS on the ML Team.
You are a brainwashed lackey if you actually believe what you typed.

You literally just confirmed exactly what I said. I said they gutted the development system and no longer were able develop players that were ready you wanted to argue and confirmed exactly what I said by saying they gutted scouts coaches and directors in the minor leagues then accuse me of
Being a brainwashed lackey when u agreed with me lol they are now fixing what mo broke he even admitted he gutted the minors development to spend on the majors and MM sucked so there’s that

You’re brainwashed with this notion that they couldn’t have a robust minor league system AND VET MLB TALENT. It has nothing to do with money. BDW/MO thought that the organization only needed them and some wonderful analytics program to cultivate a winning team. You still believe BDW can’t have a 180mil payroll while building a minor league system. You’ve written it many times over the last few weeks.

They can and will. But first they have to rebuild the team that can actually win and that means developing a core you can spend to build around. Gray is not a core piece Contreras was not a core piece Donovan is not a core piece they are players you sign to supplement a good core. You’ve been completely brainwashed to believe this team is one or two moves away from being able to actually win something you are wrong very wrong. And as I have said repeatedly they will be spending more money this offseason you’re the only one saying they aren’t going to spend anymore money. And you’ve also been brainwashed into thinking every player will hurry up and sign with a team that is rebuilding

Congratulations! That's a thoughtful, cogent, logical and sensible post.

Too bad the willfully ignorant will not even attempt to understand or comprehend it.

Herrera
Burly
Winn
JJ
Scott
Must be throwaways then?? Because this current team could field 6-7 then add a very highly paid 2x30mil players and you would have a rather robust lineup.
Add another 30mil SP
30mil
May
Libby
McGreevy
Dobbins
Your back to 170-180mil
Heck maybe you keep Donny
You’re winning games, fans are back in park, and Bloom can still rebuild farm.
Unless the current Cards listed are trash to you??? Then I guess you need to build an entire starting 9 from Bloom farm
There’s a step in your plan that where either you play the boys already here and add FA’s or you don’t think they’re good enough, like you said, and you need to replace 6-7 starters from Bloom Farm and then you spend $$ on FA’s. I say the 6 already here can win with some elite talent

Who are these two mystery $30M players you have in mind? What is your backup plan if one or both don't want to sign here? What if they want $35 or $40M to come here. Do you go that high? How many years? And with those contracts, they'll definitely command no trade protections. Do you grant that too? Aren't we trying to get out from under NTCs? If not, who are your back up $30M players?

Who is this $30M pitcher you're adding? Now apply the same questions for the above players. Who is your backup $30M pitcher?

Only a simpleton says, 'just sign X guys for X dollars' without putting actual names and contract details in place.

Sorry, man but you're wrong. They must re-build from the bottom up and then go buy (or acquire via trade) the final piece(s) to put them over the top. Otherwise they'll just be spinning the wheels like they've been doing for the last 10 years.

I’ve been asking the same questions. Name names of who you want.

I named names at the beginning of FA…..I submitted lineups several times.
Here’s the thing you have to claim that the young core here now is no good so we can’t add $$ FA to make it a complete team and that they will be mostly replaced by Bloom Farm in the future and THEN they’ll add $$ FA’s…..doing so would indicate that you know that the future players will be appreciably better. And how could ANYONE know that?? Either spend $$$ now or wait for something to materialize…that may never happen and then spend money.
Donny
Winn
Herrera
Burly
JJ
Gorman
Scott could actually win some games with the right help….but lets waste that talent for 2,3,4, yrs and wait on something not even in the org AND then spend $$$

I have been telling you repeatedly the are going to spend more money you’re just too dumb to understand I guess. And it’s funny u whine and complain about how much the cardinals yutes suck then list a bunch of them as good players. But you are just going to keep whining and complaining no matter what they do because that’s all you ever do

[Cardinals1964]

All your playful banter back and forth is highly entertaining…..but other than repeating the Cards party line…..why are you so cocksure that this exact plan you think is being implemented will transform the org into the promise land? Faith, Hope??

Because the plan of destroying the develop system in order to sign mediocre and mid tier free agents has failed spectacularly when what you’re doing fails over and over you have to try something else and I get it you think fixing the farm system and the development system so it produces productive players is a bad thing I don’t. And why do I think it will work? Because it’s a rational plan it’s a smart plan it’s a clear direction which they never had before.

The PLAN wasn’t to destroy the development system. Listen REALLY CLOSELY HERE:
For some unknown disillusioned reason BDW/MO thought they were the secret sauce brilliant brain trust after the amazing Pujols/TLR/Dunc fueled success between 2000-2011
They hired an unproven controllable Manager in Matheny
They brought in an analytics GM
They gutted old school scouts, coaches, directors in the minor leagues.
Mo wanted to be the new age Branch Rickey and went about it destroying decades of Cardinals Way George Kissel baseball fundamentals.
They fired Matheny, brought in another unknown who they thought they could control, they fired him and hired a 35yr old nobody and a college pitching coach.
We all now see what their PLAN has produced. This has nothing to do with not being able to have vibrant minor leagues system while PAYING some VETS on the ML Team.
You are a brainwashed lackey if you actually believe what you typed.

You literally just confirmed exactly what I said. I said they gutted the development system and no longer were able develop players that were ready you wanted to argue and confirmed exactly what I said by saying they gutted scouts coaches and directors in the minor leagues then accuse me of
Being a brainwashed lackey when u agreed with me lol they are now fixing what mo broke he even admitted he gutted the minors development to spend on the majors and MM sucked so there’s that

You’re brainwashed with this notion that they couldn’t have a robust minor league system AND VET MLB TALENT. It has nothing to do with money. BDW/MO thought that the organization only needed them and some wonderful analytics program to cultivate a winning team. You still believe BDW can’t have a 180mil payroll while building a minor league system. You’ve written it many times over the last few weeks.

They can and will. But first they have to rebuild the team that can actually win and that means developing a core you can spend to build around. Gray is not a core piece Contreras was not a core piece Donovan is not a core piece they are players you sign to supplement a good core. You’ve been completely brainwashed to believe this team is one or two moves away from being able to actually win something you are wrong very wrong. And as I have said repeatedly they will be spending more money this offseason you’re the only one saying they aren’t going to spend anymore money. And you’ve also been brainwashed into thinking every player will hurry up and sign with a team that is rebuilding

Congratulations! That's a thoughtful, cogent, logical and sensible post.

Too bad the willfully ignorant will not even attempt to understand or comprehend it.

Herrera
Burly
Winn
JJ
Scott
Must be throwaways then?? Because this current team could field 6-7 then add a very highly paid 2x30mil players and you would have a rather robust lineup.
Add another 30mil SP
30mil
May
Libby
McGreevy
Dobbins
Your back to 170-180mil
Heck maybe you keep Donny
You’re winning games, fans are back in park, and Bloom can still rebuild farm.
Unless the current Cards listed are trash to you??? Then I guess you need to build an entire starting 9 from Bloom farm
There’s a step in your plan that where either you play the boys already here and add FA’s or you don’t think they’re good enough, like you said, and you need to replace 6-7 starters from Bloom Farm and then you spend $$ on FA’s. I say the 6 already here can win with some elite talent

Who are these two mystery $30M players you have in mind? What is your backup plan if one or both don't want to sign here? What if they want $35 or $40M to come here. Do you go that high? How many years? And with those contracts, they'll definitely command no trade protections. Do you grant that too? Aren't we trying to get out from under NTCs? If not, who are your back up $30M players?

Who is this $30M pitcher you're adding? Now apply the same questions for the above players. Who is your backup $30M pitcher?

Only a simpleton says, 'just sign X guys for X dollars' without putting actual names and contract details in place.

Sorry, man but you're wrong. They must re-build from the bottom up and then go buy (or acquire via trade) the final piece(s) to put them over the top. Otherwise they'll just be spinning the wheels like they've been doing for the last 10 years.

I’ve been asking the same questions. Name names of who you want.

I named names at the beginning of FA…..I submitted lineups several times.
Here’s the thing you have to claim that the young core here now is no good so we can’t add $$ FA to make it a complete team and that they will be mostly replaced by Bloom Farm in the future and THEN they’ll add $$ FA’s…..doing so would indicate that you know that the future players will be appreciably better. And how could ANYONE know that?? Either spend $$$ now or wait for something to materialize…that may never happen and then spend money.
Donny
Winn
Herrera
Burly
JJ
Gorman
Scott could actually win some games with the right help….but lets waste that talent for 2,3,4, yrs and wait on something not even in the org AND then spend $$$

I have been telling you repeatedly the are going to spend more money you’re just too dumb to understand I guess. And it’s funny u whine and complain about how much the cardinals yutes suck then list a bunch of them as good players

You sound angry. Relax. Don’t repeatedly respond to posts you don’t like. Block any one that annoys you. It’s just a game.

[CCard]

He wont lose one cent, he has drastically reduced expenses to offset the revenue loss.

Sorry, but he hasn’t reduced expenses that much. Not even close.
He is drawing 1.2 million less and his 50 million dollar television contract is in the krapper. You don’t make up that type of revenue overnight, much less ever.
Dewitt is stripping the team down to the studs by unloading every expensive contract because he knows the labor situation will not be solved by opening day 2027. Until he knows what the framework of a new deal consists of…he will continue to keep his wallet closed.
If the new labor deal isn’t to his liking…he will sell the team with no long term contracts on the books. It’s how sports business works.
I would say odds are Less than 50/50 he still owns the team in 2028.

I don’t know why people keep saying the wallet is closed. They sent 20 million to the redsox to get better prospects back in the gray trade then spent 12 million on basically a gamble in may so they saved what 3 million on gray? They sent more money to the red Sox for Contreras to get better prospects back and are going to spend even more money by the end of the offseason. So they got two big league ready starters back and one pitcher with a big arm for a guy who can’t pitch on the road or heat

LOL...Big league ready starters. Put the pipe down. Neither pitcher is proven. Neither is the "Prospects" they got in the salary dump for Contreras. Just look at team payroll and that'll tell you why people say the wallet is closed.

Contreras got us Dobbins, who would’ve led the 2025 cardinals in starter ERA, as well as the Sox #23 best prospect.

Hunter Dobbins is a professional baseball pitcher for the Boston Red Sox, having made his MLB debut on April 6, 2025. He was drafted in the eighth round of the 2021 MLB Draft and has a career record of 4 wins and 1 loss with an earned run average of 4.13 as of the end of the 2025 season.

We're saved!

If I hated everything about anything, the way you hate everything about the Cardinals and their current moves, I’d have to quit watching. You don’t like the moves. Ok. Great. I don’t read every post, so I have to ask, what were your proposals? Presenting a complaint without a solution isn’t really productive.

Well, since you asked nicely. I'd pump the payroll up to $180 - 200 million. I'd go out and get two top tier starters, add some solid relief in the pen and maybe find a strong bat for the outfield. I'd keep Donovan and play him at second. I'd trade Arenado if the deal was right or give him a chance to rebound if no decent deal was there for a hall of fame player. Adding that would put this team in contention for a playoff spot. Fans would be more excited and they would come to the park in hopes of cheering on a winner. The Gray move wasn't awful. They got some lottery tickets and maybe it'll pan out, but he needs to be replaced. Way too much uncertainty in the starting rotation. Do I hate stacking up young pitchers? Absolutely not, pitching depth is great but on the other hand they're all unproven also. None of them may pan out. You can't expect anything from Liam in the minors. Same with JJ, he's never had that kind of pressure and faced the elite competition at the major league level. He might be great, but I'm thinking it might take him a while to handle major league pitching. Most young players struggle.

[CCard]

Are the Cardinals even eligible for a top 10 lottery pick? I can’t remember. Rule is there to stop tanking. A rebuild could look like tanking. Use whatever word you want. Who cares. Rebuild, tweaking, sandbagging, tanking, who cares.

When you plan on intentionally losing, that's the very definition of tanking.

They won’t intentionally lose.

Not putting competitive product on the field IS intentionally losing.

No it’s not, if you are building a competitive product.

Sorry, you're wrong. If you don't put the best team you can afford on the field then you're planning on losing. Every team is capable of spending to the best of their ability. I guess you're one of the "keep the powder dry" crowd.

[Goldfan]

All your playful banter back and forth is highly entertaining…..but other than repeating the Cards party line…..why are you so cocksure that this exact plan you think is being implemented will transform the org into the promise land? Faith, Hope??

Because the plan of destroying the develop system in order to sign mediocre and mid tier free agents has failed spectacularly when what you’re doing fails over and over you have to try something else and I get it you think fixing the farm system and the development system so it produces productive players is a bad thing I don’t. And why do I think it will work? Because it’s a rational plan it’s a smart plan it’s a clear direction which they never had before.

The PLAN wasn’t to destroy the development system. Listen REALLY CLOSELY HERE:
For some unknown disillusioned reason BDW/MO thought they were the secret sauce brilliant brain trust after the amazing Pujols/TLR/Dunc fueled success between 2000-2011
They hired an unproven controllable Manager in Matheny
They brought in an analytics GM
They gutted old school scouts, coaches, directors in the minor leagues.
Mo wanted to be the new age Branch Rickey and went about it destroying decades of Cardinals Way George Kissel baseball fundamentals.
They fired Matheny, brought in another unknown who they thought they could control, they fired him and hired a 35yr old nobody and a college pitching coach.
We all now see what their PLAN has produced. This has nothing to do with not being able to have vibrant minor leagues system while PAYING some VETS on the ML Team.
You are a brainwashed lackey if you actually believe what you typed.

You literally just confirmed exactly what I said. I said they gutted the development system and no longer were able develop players that were ready you wanted to argue and confirmed exactly what I said by saying they gutted scouts coaches and directors in the minor leagues then accuse me of
Being a brainwashed lackey when u agreed with me lol they are now fixing what mo broke he even admitted he gutted the minors development to spend on the majors and MM sucked so there’s that

You’re brainwashed with this notion that they couldn’t have a robust minor league system AND VET MLB TALENT. It has nothing to do with money. BDW/MO thought that the organization only needed them and some wonderful analytics program to cultivate a winning team. You still believe BDW can’t have a 180mil payroll while building a minor league system. You’ve written it many times over the last few weeks.

They can and will. But first they have to rebuild the team that can actually win and that means developing a core you can spend to build around. Gray is not a core piece Contreras was not a core piece Donovan is not a core piece they are players you sign to supplement a good core. You’ve been completely brainwashed to believe this team is one or two moves away from being able to actually win something you are wrong very wrong. And as I have said repeatedly they will be spending more money this offseason you’re the only one saying they aren’t going to spend anymore money. And you’ve also been brainwashed into thinking every player will hurry up and sign with a team that is rebuilding

Congratulations! That's a thoughtful, cogent, logical and sensible post.

Too bad the willfully ignorant will not even attempt to understand or comprehend it.

Herrera
Burly
Winn
JJ
Scott
Must be throwaways then?? Because this current team could field 6-7 then add a very highly paid 2x30mil players and you would have a rather robust lineup.
Add another 30mil SP
30mil
May
Libby
McGreevy
Dobbins
Your back to 170-180mil
Heck maybe you keep Donny
You’re winning games, fans are back in park, and Bloom can still rebuild farm.
Unless the current Cards listed are trash to you??? Then I guess you need to build an entire starting 9 from Bloom farm
There’s a step in your plan that where either you play the boys already here and add FA’s or you don’t think they’re good enough, like you said, and you need to replace 6-7 starters from Bloom Farm and then you spend $$ on FA’s. I say the 6 already here can win with some elite talent

Who are these two mystery $30M players you have in mind? What is your backup plan if one or both don't want to sign here? What if they want $35 or $40M to come here. Do you go that high? How many years? And with those contracts, they'll definitely command no trade protections. Do you grant that too? Aren't we trying to get out from under NTCs? If not, who are your back up $30M players?

Who is this $30M pitcher you're adding? Now apply the same questions for the above players. Who is your backup $30M pitcher?

Only a simpleton says, 'just sign X guys for X dollars' without putting actual names and contract details in place.

Sorry, man but you're wrong. They must re-build from the bottom up and then go buy (or acquire via trade) the final piece(s) to put them over the top. Otherwise they'll just be spinning the wheels like they've been doing for the last 10 years.

I’ve been asking the same questions. Name names of who you want.

I named names at the beginning of FA…..I submitted lineups several times.
Here’s the thing you have to claim that the young core here now is no good so we can’t add $$ FA to make it a complete team and that they will be mostly replaced by Bloom Farm in the future and THEN they’ll add $$ FA’s…..doing so would indicate that you know that the future players will be appreciably better. And how could ANYONE know that?? Either spend $$$ now or wait for something to materialize…that may never happen and then spend money.
Donny
Winn
Herrera
Burly
JJ
Gorman
Scott could actually win some games with the right help….but lets waste that talent for 2,3,4, yrs and wait on something not even in the org AND then spend $$$

I have been telling you repeatedly the are going to spend more money you’re just too dumb to understand I guess. And it’s funny u whine and complain about how much the cardinals yutes suck then list a bunch of them as good players. But you are just going to keep whining and complaining no matter what they do because that’s all you ever do

Sure, you said that in some point in the future BDW will spend money when young talent is in place that is appreciably better than what I listed. So either what I listed isn’t good enough and they will be gone or it is good enough now. Can’t have it both ways.

And I’ve been in the JJ, Herrera, Donny camp. Winn and Burly are sold. If you bring in real production you can live with Scott running down balls in CF and pray that Gorman can hit 30HR….
But I never get an answer about the threshold we must surpass in talent when you think BDW will spend money. I’m claiming my list can compete if a couple productive bats are inserted. So either you think my list is going to be replaced with Bloom Farm prospects OR they are good enough?
Answer the question. Saying that BDW will spend at some distant point in the future with Bloom Farm talent that isn’t even currently in the org is fantasyland…..

[rockondlouie]

1)
They're NOT tanking

2)
The Cardinals had a $6.75 EBITDA in 2025

3)
The franchise is valued at $2.55B and hasn't lost any value

4)
This is a long-term strategic overhaul per C. Bloom

5)
IMO the 2026 team is going to be better than the 2025 team, perhaps by as much as +5 - 7 games (83-85 wins which is not tanking)

I love your optimism...but you are in for a very loooonggggg season.

Thx clemsonroots

Actually I think they will be better than the 2025 squad, perhaps by 5+ games!

Just getting rid of three of the worst starters in MLB (Mikolas-Fedde-Pallante) makes them better (IMO).

Adding JJW, even if we subtract Donny, could also be a catalyst for the offense while a full season of I. Hererra would help to make up for WillyC's loss.

Any offensive improvement from M. Winn, VSII and/or (gulp) N. Gorman & J. Walker would be a bonus.

Hang in there, the 2026 team could surprise us (not w/a playoff run but at least being above .500).

[clemonsonroots]

1)
They're NOT tanking

2)
The Cardinals had a $6.75 EBITDA in 2025

3)
The franchise is valued at $2.55B and hasn't lost any value

4)
This is a long-term strategic overhaul per C. Bloom

5)
IMO the 2026 team is going to be better than the 2025 team, perhaps by as much as +5 - 7 games (83-85 wins which is not tanking)

I love your optimism...but you are in for a very loooonggggg season.

Thx clemsonroots

Actually I think they will be better than the 2025 squad, perhaps by 5+ games!

Just getting rid of three of the worst starters in MLB (Mikolas-Fedde-Pallante) makes them better (IMO).

Adding JJW, even if we subtract Donny, could also be a catalyst for the offense while a full season of I. Hererra would help to make up for WillyC's loss.

Any offensive improvement from M. Winn, VSII and/or (gulp) N. Gorman & J. Walker would be a bonus.

Hang in there, the 2026 team could surprise us (not w/a playoff run but at least being above .500).

I will agree on the rotation. How we even had that record with those three pitching a majority of the season is kind of shocking. I feel that the rotation is a bunch of 4 or 5 types, but that is certainly an improvement on just garbage that those three provided. It's like a rotation of 5 Jeff Suppons. There better be some improvement from Walker Gorman and Scott or it will be time to move on. So, there certainly should be some improvement. I still think the team is a 78 win level team, but the variance could swing to 80 plus for sure.

[rockondlouie]

1)
They're NOT tanking

2)
The Cardinals had a $6.75 EBITDA in 2025

3)
The franchise is valued at $2.55B and hasn't lost any value

4)
This is a long-term strategic overhaul per C. Bloom

5)
IMO the 2026 team is going to be better than the 2025 team, perhaps by as much as +5 - 7 games (83-85 wins which is not tanking)

I love your optimism...but you are in for a very loooonggggg season.

Thx clemsonroots

Actually I think they will be better than the 2025 squad, perhaps by 5+ games!

Just getting rid of three of the worst starters in MLB (Mikolas-Fedde-Pallante) makes them better (IMO).

Adding JJW, even if we subtract Donny, could also be a catalyst for the offense while a full season of I. Hererra would help to make up for WillyC's loss.

Any offensive improvement from M. Winn, VSII and/or (gulp) N. Gorman & J. Walker would be a bonus.

Hang in there, the 2026 team could surprise us (not w/a playoff run but at least being above .500).

I will agree on the rotation. How we even had that record with those three pitching a majority of the season is kind of shocking. I feel that the rotation is a bunch of 4 or 5 types, but that is certainly an improvement on just garbage that those three provided. It's like a rotation of 5 Jeff Suppons. There better be some improvement from Walker Gorman and Scott or it will be time to move on. So, there certainly should be some improvement. I still think the team is a 78 win level team, but the variance could swing to 80 plus for sure.

Yea those three were bottom of MLB starters, just removing them could add 5+ games to the 2026 win total.

I'm in the 81 - 84 range