Well...If they can move the Chiefs....Goodbye Cardinals

[45s]

My question is why would the NFL want a Super Bowl in Kansas City in February?

They have them in Indiana, why would the NFL want a Super Bowl in Indy in February?

That tends to be the thing for building a new stadium, especially tax payer funded ones, is that you'll get a super bowl to help offset the initial tax payer costs.

And the Super Bowl in Indy was widely panned as one of the worst Super Bowl experiences for fans.

Who wants to go to a Super Bowl in Kansas City in February?

Minneapolis had one too

Detroit as well

[cardinalsfever44]

My question is why would the NFL want a Super Bowl in Kansas City in February?

They have them in Indiana, why would the NFL want a Super Bowl in Indy in February?

That tends to be the thing for building a new stadium, especially tax payer funded ones, is that you'll get a super bowl to help offset the initial tax payer costs.

And the Super Bowl in Indy was widely panned as one of the worst Super Bowl experiences for fans.

Who wants to go to a Super Bowl in Kansas City in February?

Minneapolis had one too

Detroit as well

All once, as a reward for building a new stadium, and not again since. Having the super bowl in these cold weather cities in February is stupid.

Look up worst Super Bowl host cities and Detroit and Indy top the list for exactly the reasons I've stated.

[rockondlouie]

ZERO

REPEAT

ZERO

Chance the Cardinals ever leave St. Louis.

First they'd never move and second MLB would NEVER, EVER okay one of their crown jewel franchises leaving St. Louis.

Anyone who thinks this is happening is loco.

Especially to a smaller market like Nashville, which is already mostly Braves territory. This isn't like the Rams situation where the 2nd biggest market in the league was sitting empty. A move from St. Louis to Nashville makes less than ZERO sense.

No doubt

And the Rams went back HOME to L.A.

Don't even waste one brain cell on this topic, it's NEVER HAPPENING.

well, "home" for the Rams would actually be Cleveland, where they started

Correct


But not in my lifetime

[bluetunehead]

What a weird thread. The Cardinals aren’t moving, threatening to move, or even rumored to be moving. Illinois wouldn’t pay to update Wrigley Field, told the Sox they aren’t funding a new stadium, and are now doing the same to the Bears. In what world would they suddenly pay for a Cardinals stadium in East St. Louis of all places??

[Cardinals4Life]

It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

lol they’re moving like 20 miles. I don’t think Edwardsville is making a stadium play for the Cardinals.

Hey guess what, the 49ers don’t play in SF anymore either. And both NY football teams play in Jersey.

Your cool with teams abandoning their cities that they've played in for a long time. Cool for you I guess. They are moving like 20 miles....to another frigging state.

St. Louis to me means the Greater St. Louis Area, not the tiny 66 sq miles, under 300k population city boundary.

If they move out of St Louis then they aren't the "St Louis Cardinals". Not to mention the impact the move will have on the downtown economy. All those workers can't or won't relocate. You just can't speak about a great and storied franchise the same if they move.

lol if they move to another municipality within St. Louis County why would they still not be the St. Louis Cardinals?

It’s not the Santa Clara 49ers. Or Inglewood Rams. Or East Rutherford Jets/Giants. Or the Cobb County Braves.

Like chill. This is not a new thing. Plus, there’s not even any whispers of the Cardinals relocating or for sale. You’re getting worked up for nothing. They didn’t spend a decade building two phases of Ballpark Village just to pick up and leave.

I'm sure they were saying similar stuff about the Chiefs a while back. True it's not a far move for them, but it is another state. And if they had moved two states away the result would still be the same. The St Louis Browns, The Brooklyn Dodgers, The Montreal Expos. Don't tell me it can't happen. If they were planning to do this what would they do different from what they're doing right now? Nothing.

The economics of the sport are not even on the same planet today as the Browns and Brooklyn Dodgers days. The Expos left after their fans abandoned them after the strike.

Anything can happen, but there's no neighboring state for the Cards to move to. Yeah Metro STL covers Illinois, but anyone suggesting the Cards move to the Metro East is no paying attention to Illinois politics. The state is broke. They can't even agree on funding to keep the Bears - let alone luring another franchise over. The Cards aren't going to move to Iowa, Kentucky, or Arkansas... let's be serious.

There are other (bleep) franchises to move to Nashville before it would ever be the Cards. MLB more likely will expand to Nashville at this point anyway with the Rays seemingly moving towards a stadium solution with their new owner. If that falls through, Nashville will come calling.

The Chiefs are moving 20 miles across the boarder. Every current fan can and will continue to be a fan. If anything, it'll make the games MORE accessible as the west suburbs of KC is where more of the money is and more of the fans were driving north to Arrowhead anyway.

Again....Illinois GDP dwarfs Missouri's. They are showing common sense in not being bent over by a sports team. You speak of stuff you can't possibly know. "The Chiefs moving is actually a good thing." Please, who would believe that. "Every fan can and will continue to be a fan." You can't know that either and in fact is extremely illogical. What we do know unequivocally is that you don't know what a billionaire and his buddies have plans for. You're just like so many now days. "It couldn never happen here." Look around, it's happening in real time.

Illinois. Common sense. Now that's funny!!!

[Cardinals4Life]

It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

The Kansas City Chiefs will still be the Kansas City Chiefs. It’s basically if the Cardinals decided to build their next stadium in Chesterfield.

No. There was never an historically deadly border war between Chestfield and STL.

I think we can move on from the Civil War at this point don’t you think? Not only is nobody on earth alive from when that happened, I guarantee you don’t know anybody who knew anybody that was alive then.

Oh come on that challenge is easy. My grandparents were born between 1906 and 1910. There grandparent were born before the civil war started. So there are tons of people around who knew people who knew people that were alive then. When I was in college, our fraternity house cook was a soldier in WWI. He was really old and hated a lot of people because of what happened to him during that war and the aftermath. Yes, that history was a long time ago, but, as we get older, a few generations can span a lot of history.

I don't think the Cardinals are moving. I have mixed feelings about the Chiefs moving. There is some prestige to our state to have a team. But, I rarely go to KC, so it doesn't directly impact me. To some degree, I am happy MO is not footing the bill.

I know people that knew people that knew people that knew Julius Caesar.

I laughed out loud on that one! Lol

[Cardinals4Life]

It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

Do you even want them here? Doesn't seem like any of you "BFIB" want, like or support them. Who gave up on who?

Schools suffering from shortages, infrastructure crumbling, property taxes going up but tax funded stadiums for billionaires should take precedence? Mercenaries go to the highest bidders. This team had plenty of support when they wanted to win but losing breeds indifference....and they know that.

Haven't been to Kansas City (MO) in a few years maybe 5, but last time I was there I had a good time. Things looked good, people seemed content and as happy as anywhere else. I think your question is better suited for the people of Kanas (the state). I'm on the opposite side of this, pro sports teams bring in revenues, they attract attention, make people feel good, bring a sense of pride to folks (if done right), and greatly impact communities. When i think of Kansas City, I think of the Chiefs and Royals. When I think of Kansas, I think of trash that really has nothing.

It's been studied to death. Tax payer funded stadiums have a negative overall impact. With all that "revenue" which mostly goes to the owners, there also is added strain on infrastructure. More police presence, more services, more strain on traffic and trash collection. That's just a few of the things. There's no doubt that if brings in tourist revenue as well as an uptick in sales taxes and such, but that stadium has a life expectancy also. So in a decade or 15 years there will have to some some renovations and then the inevitable "we need a new tax payer funded stadium" cry.

Fair enough and I respect your point. This to me isn't necessarily about economics, it's about quality of life and I ask you to respect my point. What is economically beneficial to planting trees, creating a beautiful public park, improving roads and bridges to make them just look better when completely functional etc?

IT MAKES PEOPLE HAPPY!

Maybe it's not the most economically best thing (which is need to investigate) but people want it. Let's look at a bigger picture and include the variables. Do people want nicer things or just what is the best economically? I bet big bucks people and fans want nicer neighborhoods with fun activities far more than just what is best economically. Why would anyone buy the TV that is cool VS a piece of TV that you can watch the same game on? Why would anyone want a 1995 pick up truck VS. A 2026 model? It's kind of better because it makes them feel better.

But tax funded parks benefit everyone that pays taxes. Planting trees benefits everyone. Using tax dollars( that every pays in) to subsidize a billionaires business is just wrong. Especially in this economy when people are getting their food subsidies and healthcare subsidies whacked radically. How you don't see that is beyond me. Everyone wants nice neighborhoods but not everyone wants their tax dollars to go to a billionaires pet hobby. Especially when said billionaire could pay for it him/her self.This isn't rocket science here. We have real people in real need and they deserve for their tax dollars to be used responsibly. Just like the whole gambling thing. It's just a way to funnel money from poor and stupid people to those that don't need or deserve it. The lottery started out as a way to help schools, then once established they cut the taxes for the schools, so the schools got shafted. Now instead of the wealthy paying their share of the tax burden we have the poor and middle class paying more because gambling on the lotter is basically a poor person tax. The wealthy don't play or pay.

Wow. That's some warped logic right there. Blaming the rich for people wasting their money at casinos. Wow!

[Cardinals4Life]

I could see them moving to southern Illinois. Dewitt mentioned that as a location one time. Lots of land out there for parking etc.

Lol.
Yeah, lots of land. Get ready Cairo. Build the stadium so a RH pull hitter can occasionally hit one into the Ohio river, and a LHH can hit one into the Mississippi.
Don't forget a retractable roof.

That's awesome!!!!!

I believe the Cardinals once used Cairo for Spring Training during WWII.

[Cardinals4Life]

It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

Do you even want them here? Doesn't seem like any of you "BFIB" want, like or support them. Who gave up on who?

Schools suffering from shortages, infrastructure crumbling, property taxes going up but tax funded stadiums for billionaires should take precedence? Mercenaries go to the highest bidders. This team had plenty of support when they wanted to win but losing breeds indifference....and they know that.

Haven't been to Kansas City (MO) in a few years maybe 5, but last time I was there I had a good time. Things looked good, people seemed content and as happy as anywhere else. I think your question is better suited for the people of Kanas (the state). I'm on the opposite side of this, pro sports teams bring in revenues, they attract attention, make people feel good, bring a sense of pride to folks (if done right), and greatly impact communities. When i think of Kansas City, I think of the Chiefs and Royals. When I think of Kansas, I think of trash that really has nothing.

It's been studied to death. Tax payer funded stadiums have a negative overall impact. With all that "revenue" which mostly goes to the owners, there also is added strain on infrastructure. More police presence, more services, more strain on traffic and trash collection. That's just a few of the things. There's no doubt that if brings in tourist revenue as well as an uptick in sales taxes and such, but that stadium has a life expectancy also. So in a decade or 15 years there will have to some some renovations and then the inevitable "we need a new tax payer funded stadium" cry.

Fair enough and I respect your point. This to me isn't necessarily about economics, it's about quality of life and I ask you to respect my point. What is economically beneficial to planting trees, creating a beautiful public park, improving roads and bridges to make them just look better when completely functional etc?

IT MAKES PEOPLE HAPPY!

Maybe it's not the most economically best thing (which is need to investigate) but people want it. Let's look at a bigger picture and include the variables. Do people want nicer things or just what is the best economically? I bet big bucks people and fans want nicer neighborhoods with fun activities far more than just what is best economically. Why would anyone buy the TV that is cool VS a piece of TV that you can watch the same game on? Why would anyone want a 1995 pick up truck VS. A 2026 model? It's kind of better because it makes them feel better.

But tax funded parks benefit everyone that pays taxes. Planting trees benefits everyone. Using tax dollars( that every pays in) to subsidize a billionaires business is just wrong. Especially in this economy when people are getting their food subsidies and healthcare subsidies whacked radically. How you don't see that is beyond me. Everyone wants nice neighborhoods but not everyone wants their tax dollars to go to a billionaires pet hobby. Especially when said billionaire could pay for it him/her self.This isn't rocket science here. We have real people in real need and they deserve for their tax dollars to be used responsibly. Just like the whole gambling thing. It's just a way to funnel money from poor and stupid people to those that don't need or deserve it. The lottery started out as a way to help schools, then once established they cut the taxes for the schools, so the schools got shafted. Now instead of the wealthy paying their share of the tax burden we have the poor and middle class paying more because gambling on the lotter is basically a poor person tax. The wealthy don't play or pay.

I very much understand and am sympathetic to your points, I really am. Ballparks and stadiums attract tax payers, without more taxpayers you have no taxes to collect.

No system is ever going to be perfect. We should definitely always be striving to make things more perfect. Ballparks and stadiums are for everyone and mostly for middle and working classes. They are just a bigger more grand version of your public park or public school gymnasium, library etc. It's for everyone to enjoy. Those ballparks and stadiums are public/ private partnerships because that is what a massive part of the people want. Why should I subsidize your kids school or Healthcare if you don't want to subsidize what is important to me?

America today, I will argue is the greatest civilization of all time, you seem to make it out like we are living in Yemen or Mali or something. My local high school here looks like a cathedral and some say this is the ghetto my downtown St. Louis library looks like a beautiful masterpiece that should be in movies. What more do you really want? because we have it better than kings and queens of the past as just middle class folks.

You mean subsidized professional ballparks where you have to pay to park, get in and watch the games? Yeah, that's not for everyone, and it certainly shouldn't be paid for by tax payers that can't afford groceries, healthcare and education for their kids. School funding being cut, libraries have been decimated with federal cuts(my wife is a librarian), no healthcare for millions of Americans (the only industrialized country in the world that doesn't provide healthcare for its citizens, people struggling to get enough food and other needs. Don't fool yourself, America is not all it's cracked up to be. I went to school in southeast Missouri. We had some classes in trailers. It was hot in the summer, cold in the winter. Things aren't and weren't as rosy as you make out. Right now with people struggling to get by is no time to spend a billion dollars on a stadium for a billionaire. Especially if they won't subsidize a winning effort on the field.

Feel free to move to Venezuela then. The government will take care of you there.

Dude, the Chiefs have been to how many straight Super Bowls?!?!?

[Cardinals4Life]

It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

So, the Chiefs ARE moving, and you seem to be speaking factually. When do you predict the Cards to announce it?

Who knows what's in a billionaires mind? Kroenke didn't let the dust settle too long before he moved the Rams. How long did Bidwell wait before he moved the Big Red? They might never move. But if they were going to move, these are the steps an owner would take first.

Bloom: “alright guys, we are going to make some trades this offseason to build up our farm system and core of young talent.”

You: “oh my lord! They’re moving the team!!!”

Your hyperbole stinks. I never said they would move but I did say that some billionaire owners deliberately do the things that Dewitt is doing in order to move. Gut teams and drive down attendance. Then they can go to MLB and cry about how they can't draw enough to compete. Did you ever see the movie Major League? Maybe you should watch it.

A study is only as good as its methodology. If the study in question does not consider secondary and tertiary economic impact, which are often greater than the primary, then the study is fatally flawed, and are probably targeted at influencing the economic illiterates in a given region.

Yet you post saying you know better because why? What's your specific knowledge that gives you the edge?

Common sense.

[Cardinals4Life]

It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

Do you even want them here? Doesn't seem like any of you "BFIB" want, like or support them. Who gave up on who?

Schools suffering from shortages, infrastructure crumbling, property taxes going up but tax funded stadiums for billionaires should take precedence? Mercenaries go to the highest bidders. This team had plenty of support when they wanted to win but losing breeds indifference....and they know that.

Haven't been to Kansas City (MO) in a few years maybe 5, but last time I was there I had a good time. Things looked good, people seemed content and as happy as anywhere else. I think your question is better suited for the people of Kanas (the state). I'm on the opposite side of this, pro sports teams bring in revenues, they attract attention, make people feel good, bring a sense of pride to folks (if done right), and greatly impact communities. When i think of Kansas City, I think of the Chiefs and Royals. When I think of Kansas, I think of trash that really has nothing.

It's been studied to death. Tax payer funded stadiums have a negative overall impact. With all that "revenue" which mostly goes to the owners, there also is added strain on infrastructure. More police presence, more services, more strain on traffic and trash collection. That's just a few of the things. There's no doubt that if brings in tourist revenue as well as an uptick in sales taxes and such, but that stadium has a life expectancy also. So in a decade or 15 years there will have to some some renovations and then the inevitable "we need a new tax payer funded stadium" cry.

The new Chiefs dome will be tax payer funded and it quite possibly is the worst tax funded agreement in history.

The state of Kansas will put up 3 billion dollars plus tax incentives to help the Chiefs build the stadium and the surrounding commercial property. For that 3 billion plus tax incentives the Chiefs get the following: The tax breaks, legal rights to all events, food service, parking, and all rents collected from the commercial properties. The Chiefs in return will pay 7 million dollars a year to the state who will then put that money in an account for any repairs and maintenance that may be required in the future.

To summarize: The Chiefs gets everything while the state of Kansas gets a maintenance contract that they don't have to completely fund.

Oh and also, the new stadium won't be up to NFL snuff to hold Super Bowls which is one of the main reasons the state of Kansas agreed to this in the first place.

Where did you hear this last part? Just curious.

[CCard]

It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

Do you even want them here? Doesn't seem like any of you "BFIB" want, like or support them. Who gave up on who?

Schools suffering from shortages, infrastructure crumbling, property taxes going up but tax funded stadiums for billionaires should take precedence? Mercenaries go to the highest bidders. This team had plenty of support when they wanted to win but losing breeds indifference....and they know that.

Haven't been to Kansas City (MO) in a few years maybe 5, but last time I was there I had a good time. Things looked good, people seemed content and as happy as anywhere else. I think your question is better suited for the people of Kanas (the state). I'm on the opposite side of this, pro sports teams bring in revenues, they attract attention, make people feel good, bring a sense of pride to folks (if done right), and greatly impact communities. When i think of Kansas City, I think of the Chiefs and Royals. When I think of Kansas, I think of trash that really has nothing.

It's been studied to death. Tax payer funded stadiums have a negative overall impact. With all that "revenue" which mostly goes to the owners, there also is added strain on infrastructure. More police presence, more services, more strain on traffic and trash collection. That's just a few of the things. There's no doubt that if brings in tourist revenue as well as an uptick in sales taxes and such, but that stadium has a life expectancy also. So in a decade or 15 years there will have to some some renovations and then the inevitable "we need a new tax payer funded stadium" cry.

Fair enough and I respect your point. This to me isn't necessarily about economics, it's about quality of life and I ask you to respect my point. What is economically beneficial to planting trees, creating a beautiful public park, improving roads and bridges to make them just look better when completely functional etc?

IT MAKES PEOPLE HAPPY!

Maybe it's not the most economically best thing (which is need to investigate) but people want it. Let's look at a bigger picture and include the variables. Do people want nicer things or just what is the best economically? I bet big bucks people and fans want nicer neighborhoods with fun activities far more than just what is best economically. Why would anyone buy the TV that is cool VS a piece of TV that you can watch the same game on? Why would anyone want a 1995 pick up truck VS. A 2026 model? It's kind of better because it makes them feel better.

But tax funded parks benefit everyone that pays taxes. Planting trees benefits everyone. Using tax dollars( that every pays in) to subsidize a billionaires business is just wrong. Especially in this economy when people are getting their food subsidies and healthcare subsidies whacked radically. How you don't see that is beyond me. Everyone wants nice neighborhoods but not everyone wants their tax dollars to go to a billionaires pet hobby. Especially when said billionaire could pay for it him/her self.This isn't rocket science here. We have real people in real need and they deserve for their tax dollars to be used responsibly. Just like the whole gambling thing. It's just a way to funnel money from poor and stupid people to those that don't need or deserve it. The lottery started out as a way to help schools, then once established they cut the taxes for the schools, so the schools got shafted. Now instead of the wealthy paying their share of the tax burden we have the poor and middle class paying more because gambling on the lotter is basically a poor person tax. The wealthy don't play or pay.

I very much understand and am sympathetic to your points, I really am. Ballparks and stadiums attract tax payers, without more taxpayers you have no taxes to collect.

No system is ever going to be perfect. We should definitely always be striving to make things more perfect. Ballparks and stadiums are for everyone and mostly for middle and working classes. They are just a bigger more grand version of your public park or public school gymnasium, library etc. It's for everyone to enjoy. Those ballparks and stadiums are public/ private partnerships because that is what a massive part of the people want. Why should I subsidize your kids school or Healthcare if you don't want to subsidize what is important to me?

America today, I will argue is the greatest civilization of all time, you seem to make it out like we are living in Yemen or Mali or something. My local high school here looks like a cathedral and some say this is the ghetto my downtown St. Louis library looks like a beautiful masterpiece that should be in movies. What more do you really want? because we have it better than kings and queens of the past as just middle class folks.

You mean subsidized professional ballparks where you have to pay to park, get in and watch the games? Yeah, that's not for everyone, and it certainly shouldn't be paid for by tax payers that can't afford groceries, healthcare and education for their kids. School funding being cut, libraries have been decimated with federal cuts(my wife is a librarian), no healthcare for millions of Americans (the only industrialized country in the world that doesn't provide healthcare for its citizens, people struggling to get enough food and other needs. Don't fool yourself, America is not all it's cracked up to be. I went to school in southeast Missouri. We had some classes in trailers. It was hot in the summer, cold in the winter. Things aren't and weren't as rosy as you make out. Right now with people struggling to get by is no time to spend a billion dollars on a stadium for a billionaire. Especially if they won't subsidize a winning effort on the field.

Feel free to move to Venezuela then. The government will take care of you there.

Dude, the Chiefs have been to how many straight Super Bowls?!?!?

I don't care if they go to the Super Bowl every (bleep) year. It's not right to take tax payers money to subsidize big business. As for moving, the boats work for you too. Get on one.

[CCard]

It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

Do you even want them here? Doesn't seem like any of you "BFIB" want, like or support them. Who gave up on who?

Schools suffering from shortages, infrastructure crumbling, property taxes going up but tax funded stadiums for billionaires should take precedence? Mercenaries go to the highest bidders. This team had plenty of support when they wanted to win but losing breeds indifference....and they know that.

Haven't been to Kansas City (MO) in a few years maybe 5, but last time I was there I had a good time. Things looked good, people seemed content and as happy as anywhere else. I think your question is better suited for the people of Kanas (the state). I'm on the opposite side of this, pro sports teams bring in revenues, they attract attention, make people feel good, bring a sense of pride to folks (if done right), and greatly impact communities. When i think of Kansas City, I think of the Chiefs and Royals. When I think of Kansas, I think of trash that really has nothing.

It's been studied to death. Tax payer funded stadiums have a negative overall impact. With all that "revenue" which mostly goes to the owners, there also is added strain on infrastructure. More police presence, more services, more strain on traffic and trash collection. That's just a few of the things. There's no doubt that if brings in tourist revenue as well as an uptick in sales taxes and such, but that stadium has a life expectancy also. So in a decade or 15 years there will have to some some renovations and then the inevitable "we need a new tax payer funded stadium" cry.

Fair enough and I respect your point. This to me isn't necessarily about economics, it's about quality of life and I ask you to respect my point. What is economically beneficial to planting trees, creating a beautiful public park, improving roads and bridges to make them just look better when completely functional etc?

IT MAKES PEOPLE HAPPY!

Maybe it's not the most economically best thing (which is need to investigate) but people want it. Let's look at a bigger picture and include the variables. Do people want nicer things or just what is the best economically? I bet big bucks people and fans want nicer neighborhoods with fun activities far more than just what is best economically. Why would anyone buy the TV that is cool VS a piece of TV that you can watch the same game on? Why would anyone want a 1995 pick up truck VS. A 2026 model? It's kind of better because it makes them feel better.

But tax funded parks benefit everyone that pays taxes. Planting trees benefits everyone. Using tax dollars( that every pays in) to subsidize a billionaires business is just wrong. Especially in this economy when people are getting their food subsidies and healthcare subsidies whacked radically. How you don't see that is beyond me. Everyone wants nice neighborhoods but not everyone wants their tax dollars to go to a billionaires pet hobby. Especially when said billionaire could pay for it him/her self.This isn't rocket science here. We have real people in real need and they deserve for their tax dollars to be used responsibly. Just like the whole gambling thing. It's just a way to funnel money from poor and stupid people to those that don't need or deserve it. The lottery started out as a way to help schools, then once established they cut the taxes for the schools, so the schools got shafted. Now instead of the wealthy paying their share of the tax burden we have the poor and middle class paying more because gambling on the lotter is basically a poor person tax. The wealthy don't play or pay.

Wow. That's some warped logic right there. Blaming the rich for people wasting their money at casinos. Wow!

No, the rich are just exceptional at taking advantage of the middle class and poor. See the tax system. The rich favor and use their influence(media and bribing politicians) so that they get these things passed. Threatening a city or state with moving if they don't pay your extortion fee. Then they reap the rewards. As for the lottery, they get their taxes lowered and the money comes from the lottery (ie..a tax on the poor and middle class because they're the only ones that play). This isn't brain surgery here. Use you common sense.

[CCard]

It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

lol they’re moving like 20 miles. I don’t think Edwardsville is making a stadium play for the Cardinals.

Hey guess what, the 49ers don’t play in SF anymore either. And both NY football teams play in Jersey.

Your cool with teams abandoning their cities that they've played in for a long time. Cool for you I guess. They are moving like 20 miles....to another frigging state.

St. Louis to me means the Greater St. Louis Area, not the tiny 66 sq miles, under 300k population city boundary.

If they move out of St Louis then they aren't the "St Louis Cardinals". Not to mention the impact the move will have on the downtown economy. All those workers can't or won't relocate. You just can't speak about a great and storied franchise the same if they move.

lol if they move to another municipality within St. Louis County why would they still not be the St. Louis Cardinals?

It’s not the Santa Clara 49ers. Or Inglewood Rams. Or East Rutherford Jets/Giants. Or the Cobb County Braves.

Like chill. This is not a new thing. Plus, there’s not even any whispers of the Cardinals relocating or for sale. You’re getting worked up for nothing. They didn’t spend a decade building two phases of Ballpark Village just to pick up and leave.

I'm sure they were saying similar stuff about the Chiefs a while back. True it's not a far move for them, but it is another state. And if they had moved two states away the result would still be the same. The St Louis Browns, The Brooklyn Dodgers, The Montreal Expos. Don't tell me it can't happen. If they were planning to do this what would they do different from what they're doing right now? Nothing.

The economics of the sport are not even on the same planet today as the Browns and Brooklyn Dodgers days. The Expos left after their fans abandoned them after the strike.

Anything can happen, but there's no neighboring state for the Cards to move to. Yeah Metro STL covers Illinois, but anyone suggesting the Cards move to the Metro East is no paying attention to Illinois politics. The state is broke. They can't even agree on funding to keep the Bears - let alone luring another franchise over. The Cards aren't going to move to Iowa, Kentucky, or Arkansas... let's be serious.

There are other (bleep) franchises to move to Nashville before it would ever be the Cards. MLB more likely will expand to Nashville at this point anyway with the Rays seemingly moving towards a stadium solution with their new owner. If that falls through, Nashville will come calling.

The Chiefs are moving 20 miles across the boarder. Every current fan can and will continue to be a fan. If anything, it'll make the games MORE accessible as the west suburbs of KC is where more of the money is and more of the fans were driving north to Arrowhead anyway.

Again....Illinois GDP dwarfs Missouri's. They are showing common sense in not being bent over by a sports team. You speak of stuff you can't possibly know. "The Chiefs moving is actually a good thing." Please, who would believe that. "Every fan can and will continue to be a fan." You can't know that either and in fact is extremely illogical. What we do know unequivocally is that you don't know what a billionaire and his buddies have plans for. You're just like so many now days. "It couldn never happen here." Look around, it's happening in real time.

Illinois. Common sense. Now that's funny!!!

You sound just like parrot. Are you parrot? Why would you think it's funny that a local deified sports team might move for greener pastures if their billionaire owners can't get his extortion money?

[Cardinals4Life]

It's only a matter of time. Sports teams have no loyalty. They are hired mercenaries. Always looking for the Bigger Better Deal. The Chiefs were one of the original teams to begin with. With all that history and fabulous fan support, it still comes down to how much they can extort from another state. Maybe that's what Dewitt and the others are doing. They're going to wreck the franchise and fan base so there won't be such an uproar when they move to Illinois. Sad times and I'm sure some of you will pooh pooh it off as never happening just as I'm sure there are a lot of fans in northern Missouri who are shocked. Makes one wonder if maybe there's too much emphasis on pro sports.

lol they’re moving like 20 miles. I don’t think Edwardsville is making a stadium play for the Cardinals.

Hey guess what, the 49ers don’t play in SF anymore either. And both NY football teams play in Jersey.

Your cool with teams abandoning their cities that they've played in for a long time. Cool for you I guess. They are moving like 20 miles....to another frigging state.

St. Louis to me means the Greater St. Louis Area, not the tiny 66 sq miles, under 300k population city boundary.

If they move out of St Louis then they aren't the "St Louis Cardinals". Not to mention the impact the move will have on the downtown economy. All those workers can't or won't relocate. You just can't speak about a great and storied franchise the same if they move.

lol if they move to another municipality within St. Louis County why would they still not be the St. Louis Cardinals?

It’s not the Santa Clara 49ers. Or Inglewood Rams. Or East Rutherford Jets/Giants. Or the Cobb County Braves.

Like chill. This is not a new thing. Plus, there’s not even any whispers of the Cardinals relocating or for sale. You’re getting worked up for nothing. They didn’t spend a decade building two phases of Ballpark Village just to pick up and leave.

I'm sure they were saying similar stuff about the Chiefs a while back. True it's not a far move for them, but it is another state. And if they had moved two states away the result would still be the same. The St Louis Browns, The Brooklyn Dodgers, The Montreal Expos. Don't tell me it can't happen. If they were planning to do this what would they do different from what they're doing right now? Nothing.

The economics of the sport are not even on the same planet today as the Browns and Brooklyn Dodgers days. The Expos left after their fans abandoned them after the strike.

Anything can happen, but there's no neighboring state for the Cards to move to. Yeah Metro STL covers Illinois, but anyone suggesting the Cards move to the Metro East is no paying attention to Illinois politics. The state is broke. They can't even agree on funding to keep the Bears - let alone luring another franchise over. The Cards aren't going to move to Iowa, Kentucky, or Arkansas... let's be serious.

There are other (bleep) franchises to move to Nashville before it would ever be the Cards. MLB more likely will expand to Nashville at this point anyway with the Rays seemingly moving towards a stadium solution with their new owner. If that falls through, Nashville will come calling.

The Chiefs are moving 20 miles across the boarder. Every current fan can and will continue to be a fan. If anything, it'll make the games MORE accessible as the west suburbs of KC is where more of the money is and more of the fans were driving north to Arrowhead anyway.

Again....Illinois GDP dwarfs Missouri's. They are showing common sense in not being bent over by a sports team. You speak of stuff you can't possibly know. "The Chiefs moving is actually a good thing." Please, who would believe that. "Every fan can and will continue to be a fan." You can't know that either and in fact is extremely illogical. What we do know unequivocally is that you don't know what a billionaire and his buddies have plans for. You're just like so many now days. "It couldn never happen here." Look around, it's happening in real time.

Illinois. Common sense. Now that's funny!!!

You sound just like parrot. Are you parrot? Why would you think it's funny that a local deified sports team might move for greener pastures if their billionaire owners can't get his extortion money?

No, it is funny that you use Illinois and common sense together. They clearly have none.

[AtillaTheBlue1]

the dewallets did make a slight threat of looking for land over in east st.louis, and media and fans took them to the wood shed, and bdw2 and his derelict son tucked their tails and ran back to claim it was never an option.

also, chiefs and their owners are $$ whores, he would sell his daughter for a million bucks. never think the hunts are good peeps, they are scum bags, and he was one who voted to move the rams out of st.louis, remember that

good for Missouri for letting the state of Kansas lose a ton of cash. you dont make money off stadiums, its factually proven, especially nfl stadiums.


3bil, and chiefs get ALL the game day revenues. LOL If i was a Kansas resident, i'd call jungle law to report a #metoo event.