Dodgers' Luxury Tax

[cardstatman]

Another media driven false fact is that the NL Central is often a weak division which is easier to win.

Since Houston left for the ALW in 2013, the NL Central is the 2nd best division in MLB. The AL East of course dominates.

It is the Guardians, Astros, Braves, and Dodgers who have cupcake division schedules and easy to win division titles year after year.
Baltimore usually plays by far the toughest division schedule.

AL Central
CLE ALC AL 13 1101 900 .550
MIN ALC AL 13 968 1036 .483
DET ALC AL 13 935 1064 .468
KCR ALC AL 13 937 1067 .468
CWS ALC AL 13 862 1141 .430

AL East
NYY ALE AL 13 1128 876 .563
BOS ALE AL 13 1066 938 .532
TAM ALE AL 13 1065 940 .531
TOR ALE AL 13 1027 977 .512
BAL ALE AL 13 954 1050 .476

AL West
HOU ALW AL 13 1097 906 .548
SEA ALW AL 13 1025 979 .511
OAK ALW AL 13 967 1037 .483
TEX ALW AL 13 963 1042 .480
LAA ALW AL 13 951 1053 .475

NL Central
STL NLC NL 13 1080 922 .539
MIL NLC NL 13 1060 945 .529
CHC NLC NL 13 1047 957 .522
PIT NLC NL 13 949 1053 .474
CIN NLC NL 13 926 1078 .462

NL East
ATL NLE NL 13 1062 940 .530
NYM NLE NL 13 1013 990 .506
WAS NLE NL 13 986 1018 .492
PHI NLE NL 13 985 1019 .492
MIA NLE NL 13 878 1123 .439

NL West
LAD NLW NL 13 1222 783 .609 0.0
SFG NLW NL 13 1006 998 .502 215.5
SDP NLW NL 13 972 1032 .485 249.5
ARI NLW NL 13 957 1047 .478 264.5
COL NLW NL 13 863 1141 .431 358.5

[Ike Hammett]

Another media driven false fact is that the NL Central is often a weak division which is easier to win.

Since Houston left for the ALW in 2013, the NL Central is the 2nd best division in MLB. The AL East of course dominates.

It is the Guardians, Astros, Braves, and Dodgers who have cupcake division schedules and easy to win division titles year after year.
Baltimore usually plays by far the toughest division schedule.

AL Central
CLE ALC AL 13 1101 900 .550
MIN ALC AL 13 968 1036 .483
DET ALC AL 13 935 1064 .468
KCR ALC AL 13 937 1067 .468
CWS ALC AL 13 862 1141 .430

AL East
NYY ALE AL 13 1128 876 .563
BOS ALE AL 13 1066 938 .532
TAM ALE AL 13 1065 940 .531
TOR ALE AL 13 1027 977 .512
BAL ALE AL 13 954 1050 .476

AL West
HOU ALW AL 13 1097 906 .548
SEA ALW AL 13 1025 979 .511
OAK ALW AL 13 967 1037 .483
TEX ALW AL 13 963 1042 .480
LAA ALW AL 13 951 1053 .475

NL Central
STL NLC NL 13 1080 922 .539
MIL NLC NL 13 1060 945 .529
CHC NLC NL 13 1047 957 .522
PIT NLC NL 13 949 1053 .474
CIN NLC NL 13 926 1078 .462

NL East
ATL NLE NL 13 1062 940 .530
NYM NLE NL 13 1013 990 .506
WAS NLE NL 13 986 1018 .492
PHI NLE NL 13 985 1019 .492
MIA NLE NL 13 878 1123 .439

NL West
LAD NLW NL 13 1222 783 .609 0.0
SFG NLW NL 13 1006 998 .502 215.5
SDP NLW NL 13 972 1032 .485 249.5
ARI NLW NL 13 957 1047 .478 264.5
COL NLW NL 13 863 1141 .431 358.5

The Cardinals carried a lot of that weight. Also, there are no really big spenders in this division. It's a division up for grabs if you try.

[Poojols]

Yes, baseball is broken. The only people who refuse that fact are either fans of those few large markets or complete idiots.

attendance has been up 3 years in a row (first time in decades) and we just had the best WS I've ever seen

well, someone is an idiot for sure!

After a comment like that, someone definitely is.

Watching one team buy all the elite free agents every year is so fun!

[Hofikebrucee]

lA has been a huge market since forever. When Fox and later when McCourt owned the team they sucked.

It took smart owners with deep pockets to develop the revenue that had been sitting there untapped.

The argument about the market is a bit odd given they’ve been good for about 8-10 years but LA has been a huge market far longer. The key to the dodgers is not money alone and I would go so far as to say their brain trust is far more valuable than their checkbook.

Baseball is broke. But not likely to be fixed. Strike or no strike. Lockout or no lockout. The brewers are in a horrible market and still can compete. If that’s possible why can’t the cardinals?

[cardstatman]

lA has been a huge market since forever. When Fox and later when McCourt owned the team they sucked.

It took smart owners with deep pockets to develop the revenue that had been sitting there untapped.

The argument about the market is a bit odd given they’ve been good for about 8-10 years but LA has been a huge market far longer. The key to the dodgers is not money alone and I would go so far as to say their brain trust is far more valuable than their checkbook.

Baseball is broke. But not likely to be fixed. Strike or no strike. Lockout or no lockout. The brewers are in a horrible market and still can compete. If that’s possible why can’t the cardinals?

With Dodger/Yankee money, the owner has to be stupid not to win.

Yeah, the Dodgers stopped their stupid and are actually using their unfair advantage. Congrats to them.

The system needs to be fixed we can't rely on all the largest markets being stupid in order to give the poorest 15 teams a fighting chance.

St Louis and Kansas City are the only metro areas smaller than 4.5M to win a World Series in the past 28 years (since MLB expanded to 30 teams).
Toronto and the New York Mets are the only metro areas larger than 4.5M not to win a World Series in the past 28 years.

[makesnosense]

lA has been a huge market since forever. When Fox and later when McCourt owned the team they sucked.

It took smart owners with deep pockets to develop the revenue that had been sitting there untapped.

The argument about the market is a bit odd given they’ve been good for about 8-10 years but LA has been a huge market far longer. The key to the dodgers is not money alone and I would go so far as to say their brain trust is far more valuable than their checkbook.

Baseball is broke. But not likely to be fixed. Strike or no strike. Lockout or no lockout. The brewers are in a horrible market and still can compete. If that’s possible why can’t the cardinals?

With Dodger/Yankee money, the owner has to be stupid not to win.

Yeah, the Dodgers stopped their stupid and are actually using their unfair advantage. Congrats to them.

The system needs to be fixed we can't rely on all the largest markets being stupid in order to give the poorest 15 teams a fighting chance.

St Louis and Kansas City are the only metro areas smaller than 4.5M to win a World Series in the past 28 years (since MLB expanded to 30 teams).
Toronto and the New York Mets are the only metro areas larger than 4.5M not to win a World Series in the past 28 years.

I always love the " Dodgers use their unfair advantage" They do not have an unfair advantage, but are the best run organization in baseball , if not of all sports.

[TheJackBurton]

Dodgers drew 4 million in an area of maybe 14M to 18M people with a peaking team.

Cardinals drew 2.5 million in an area of maybe 3M people with a cratering team. Okay, be honest, it was 2.5M tickets but 1.5M people .

This huge difference shows up most strongly in Monday to Thursday games... which is around half of the games.
Working people aren't often going drive over an hour to attend a weeknight game.
They would watch on TV, but MLB is rarely on TV outside of St Louis unless you pay for a package.

There are 3 teams in Southern California. The Cards have historically owned the Southern Midwest and still have fans in lots of other places around the Midwest. Maybe if Cardinals fan types didn't kill economies and adopted a more fun loving and open type mindset you wouldn't destroy St. Louis either and more fans would show up during the week.

What in the holy hell are you even talking about?

Not sure if we are allowed to conversate about such things, but this topic has passed and it's about luxury tax. THE PEOPLE OF HOLLYWOOD CAN AND DO AFFORD A LUXURY TAX AND HAVE WORLD CHAMPS TO ROOT FOR! The people of rural West Virginia, Kansas, Arkansas etc are whining about their luxury tax being hire than the whole payroll of the Cards. So root for the rural West Virginia team as i want to compete with the Dodgers! I'm not "talking" I'm posting about economics and the structures of economics. Which you lose at like you do at baseball!

None of this makes any sense unless you just did an 8 ball before typing any of it.

What is so hard to understand?

Dodgers and people of LA/ Hollywood are rich. Cardinals fans from rural Oklahoma, Kansas West Virginia, Missouri are not. It's obvious as to why, and obvious as to why more players would rather go there.

What do economic situations have to do with anything? The Cards are one of the richest franchises in baseball even with those "backwoods hillbillies" buying up those tickets compared to Champagne ticket buyers.

Do you even have any idea what point you are trying to make?

It doesn't matter if all the Cards attracted was billionaires, they don't have a tv market of 18 million people, they have a tv market of 3 million that's the difference in today's baseball world.

The Dodgers make money before they sell ticket 1, the Cards don't. Your point is completely idiotic.

"What do economic situations have to do with anything?" What kind of babbling nonsense is this? Obviously people and fans that have better economic situations can support their team and recreational activities at better levels, have more free time to enjoy them, can and will enjoy them along with being in a position to do so if they want.

Prove to me the Cards are " one of the richest richest franchises in baseball". I see a team struggling to keep their head above water trying to remain relevant as the big dogs scavenge their parts for something that might help them.

Not all Cards fans are " backwoods hillbillies" and I WOULD NEVER STATE SUCH A THING! A lot of Dodgers fans are immigrants and of not ""champagne" type fans, just folks that love baseball, America and want to be a part of something successful they can identify with.

Obviously the point I'm trying to make (on this headline and particular subject) is, the Dodgers can draw the masses, they can get the people to buy into what they are selling, generate huge revenues (even to a point of subsidies for other clubs). That their fans show up in huge numbers, support the club and are happy. I'm not certain people and fans like you could ever be happy or support their club like that. And if you can't or don't, they beat you AND DESERVE TOO!

Like I stated, there are 3 teams in Southern California and another one soon coming to Las Vegas, along with about another dozen pro teams to root for. YES!!! Southern California is baseball crazy but the Dodgers don't have a monopoly on it and neither does baseball, THEY EARN THAT BUSINESS!

I think it's kind of confusing and contradicting to state the Cards are one of the richest teams, yet make no money and you think crying poor for ticket sales. The Cards definitely need ticket sales and fans to show up, be happy, support the club, and build it up.

You are terrible girl!

:::sigh::: I don't know how else to explain this, butts in seats are no longer a major league teams primary goal. It is nothing but a small piece of the pie. The tv contracts, luxury boxes, and advertising dollars are all that matters. The Dodgers have 15 million more people to pull from than the Cards do. Therefore they can charge drastically more for televising rights, advertising dollars on tv and inside the park. The type of audience or where they are from makes little to no difference as far as any of that is concerned. The Dodgers can pay Ohtani 700 million dollars because their advertisers will pay significantly more money to be seen during a game because of the possibility of 10 million+ watching a game. The Cards and the vast majority of other teams can't pay Ohtani 700 million dollars because even if they get every eyeball in their cities watching and attending a game they still fall millions of eyeballs short of what LA can potentially have.

Can you possibly understand this now?

No, because it makes no sense and is way more complicated. So why aren't the LA Sparks or Chargers, LA FC soccer team more valuable and way out spend a team like the Kansas City Chiefs? So you are telling me if the Dodgers drew crowds like Tampa they would still be as good? So why aren't the Angels? Why aren't the Marlins a juggernaut?

This is nonsense you provide ma'am!

Are you stupid?

First off you can stop calling me ma'am I'm not a woman.

Secondly, the Chargers can't outspend the Chiefs because the NFL has a salary cap. In fact the Chargers can't spend more than what the salary cap allows them. MLB does not have a salary cap, just an idiotic luxury tax which the rich teams scoff at. The Dodgers are making a mockery of the luxury tax and they couldn't possibly care less.

The Marlins? Are you seriously asking why the Marlins can't outspend the Dodgers? If the Dodgers drew crowds like Tampa, yes they would still be as good because they, I can't believe I'm having to say this yet again, get the vast majority of their money from the following: tv contract, advertising, and luxury box sales.

The Angels tried to be the Dodgers and overpaid for over the hill free agents and didn't pay for any pitching. They could score with the best of them, but couldn't stop them from scoring. As of today, the Dodgers pitching staff alone makes more money than some teams payrolls.

Do you finally, finally, finally understand?

[TheJackBurton]

Yes, baseball is broken. The only people who refuse that fact are either fans of those few large markets or complete idiots.

attendance has been up 3 years in a row (first time in decades) and we just had the best WS I've ever seen

well, someone is an idiot for sure!

Those aren't real numbers and you know it. Look at 3/4 of the stadiums during most weekday games and they are at half or less capacity.

Sold tickets to ticket brokers at pennies on the dollar does not equal a butt in the seat, which is exactly why they stopped counting turnstiles and switched to tickets sold.

One of the few games I went to was announced at 28k something, and if there was even 20k there I'd have been shocked.

[TheJackBurton]

Who are you trying to convince and what are you trying to convince them about?

Looks to me like the Cardinals model was doing good, the "fans" wanted it tore down just like they tore down St. Louis itself.

We mostly agree except your argument about Dodger fans being rich and superior being the reason for their success and Cardinals fans being poor and inferior being the reason for the the Cardinals 3 year downturn. Obviously I believe it is about the sheer number of people in the two cities. Even as a "rebuilding" team, the Cardinals get a higher percentage of viewership and cash per person from their customer base than the peaking Dodgers get from their customer base. There just aren't enough persons in STL to equal the LAD revenue.

The Cardinals downturn was caused by their FO losing its focus around 2016 and failing to successfully reload after their fantastic run of success from 2011 to 2015. They squandered an enormous amount of money (over $300M) since then on below average players and they also lost their edge in drafting/development... although this is greatly exaggerated by the local media and they have convinced many fans this is a fact.

Their trades have been "sell" trades for 3 years now. Fans see they aren't trying to compete and aren't as excited about the team.
Then for the past year, they suddenly stopped spending, too, and the team talent level plunged. They lost $15M due to the TV deal and they invested a lot of money in Palm Beach, but they failed to communicate that as a positive sign of hope to their fans. Led by the STL media, fans became negative and stayed away even more. Nevermind, that Bloom was already in place and working to change the direction. Media and fans pretended that staying away was their "only" way to send a message that change was needed. "Shame on you for going to a Cardinal game" was the idiotic motto. (I think this is your major point and I agree.)

The revenue drop forced them to trade their two big purchases of 2023-2024 (Contreras and Gray) who were intended to keep them competitive during the rebuild but now they cannot afford them and so we are likely to see the worst Cardinal team in 100 years in 2026.

You and I agree that the fan boycott is only going to hurt their chances of ever becoming relevent again. The best fans in baseball were created by Harry Carey and Jack Buck and were destroyed by the new St Louis media talking empty heads.

It is ridulous for fans to wait for the owner to invest 300 million into the team so they can be like the Dodgers and then they will start coming back to watch Cardinal games again. That is not going to happen, ever. Even Stephen Cohen was smart enough to do it in New York, not St Louis, since it has no chance of working in St Louis. I think we both agree on this.

The Cards need to take seriously their relationship with their own fans and get the narrative back from the stupid media people who are training them to just turn against the ownership. The end result of that will be that we will become Pittsburgh.

I neither need, nor do I want the ownership to spend 300 million + dollars on this team. What I want and expect however is when the fan base becomes disgruntled because of an obvious attempt by ownership to go as cheap as they could while plugging holes, to not treat me like an idiot. 3+ million a year, and one down year they all of a sudden can't spend money? Please.

There is no reason, ever for the payroll to be below 150. This is a large enough market, players love playing here, and they have enough name recognition to get quality players here. However, they still want to pay like its 2006 and players are willing to take millions below market to wear the birds on the bat, and that is no longer the case. If I hear the words "our model" one more time when it comes to extensions, the UFA market, or signing someone to contracts I'll tear my hair out. "The model" is sorely outdated.

Now I firmly believe they have fixed one of the holes in Mo retiring. He had no idea how to properly spend the money, and as the mouthpiece for the ownership group was condescending, talked down to people, and all in all was terrible. Also, if I'm any sort of a PR firm, there is no way in hell I let DeWitt 3 ever do another unscripted interview. That guy alone probably was one of the main reasons ticket sales were down immensely.

[TheJackBurton]

lA has been a huge market since forever. When Fox and later when McCourt owned the team they sucked.

It took smart owners with deep pockets to develop the revenue that had been sitting there untapped.

The argument about the market is a bit odd given they’ve been good for about 8-10 years but LA has been a huge market far longer. The key to the dodgers is not money alone and I would go so far as to say their brain trust is far more valuable than their checkbook.

Baseball is broke. But not likely to be fixed. Strike or no strike. Lockout or no lockout. The brewers are in a horrible market and still can compete. If that’s possible why can’t the cardinals?

Yes they completely revamped the organization, but you can't have a payroll that's almost a billion dollars simply because you have a well run front office.

McCourt during the majority of his ownership was going through his divorce so he was always distracted.

The new owners have revenue streams outside of baseball that make it so they can spend this type of money and not be personally affected if the season goes sideways.

[Ike Hammett]

Dodgers drew 4 million in an area of maybe 14M to 18M people with a peaking team.

Cardinals drew 2.5 million in an area of maybe 3M people with a cratering team. Okay, be honest, it was 2.5M tickets but 1.5M people .

This huge difference shows up most strongly in Monday to Thursday games... which is around half of the games.
Working people aren't often going drive over an hour to attend a weeknight game.
They would watch on TV, but MLB is rarely on TV outside of St Louis unless you pay for a package.

There are 3 teams in Southern California. The Cards have historically owned the Southern Midwest and still have fans in lots of other places around the Midwest. Maybe if Cardinals fan types didn't kill economies and adopted a more fun loving and open type mindset you wouldn't destroy St. Louis either and more fans would show up during the week.

What in the holy hell are you even talking about?

Not sure if we are allowed to conversate about such things, but this topic has passed and it's about luxury tax. THE PEOPLE OF HOLLYWOOD CAN AND DO AFFORD A LUXURY TAX AND HAVE WORLD CHAMPS TO ROOT FOR! The people of rural West Virginia, Kansas, Arkansas etc are whining about their luxury tax being hire than the whole payroll of the Cards. So root for the rural West Virginia team as i want to compete with the Dodgers! I'm not "talking" I'm posting about economics and the structures of economics. Which you lose at like you do at baseball!

None of this makes any sense unless you just did an 8 ball before typing any of it.

What is so hard to understand?

Dodgers and people of LA/ Hollywood are rich. Cardinals fans from rural Oklahoma, Kansas West Virginia, Missouri are not. It's obvious as to why, and obvious as to why more players would rather go there.

What do economic situations have to do with anything? The Cards are one of the richest franchises in baseball even with those "backwoods hillbillies" buying up those tickets compared to Champagne ticket buyers.

Do you even have any idea what point you are trying to make?

It doesn't matter if all the Cards attracted was billionaires, they don't have a tv market of 18 million people, they have a tv market of 3 million that's the difference in today's baseball world.

The Dodgers make money before they sell ticket 1, the Cards don't. Your point is completely idiotic.

"What do economic situations have to do with anything?" What kind of babbling nonsense is this? Obviously people and fans that have better economic situations can support their team and recreational activities at better levels, have more free time to enjoy them, can and will enjoy them along with being in a position to do so if they want.

Prove to me the Cards are " one of the richest richest franchises in baseball". I see a team struggling to keep their head above water trying to remain relevant as the big dogs scavenge their parts for something that might help them.

Not all Cards fans are " backwoods hillbillies" and I WOULD NEVER STATE SUCH A THING! A lot of Dodgers fans are immigrants and of not ""champagne" type fans, just folks that love baseball, America and want to be a part of something successful they can identify with.

Obviously the point I'm trying to make (on this headline and particular subject) is, the Dodgers can draw the masses, they can get the people to buy into what they are selling, generate huge revenues (even to a point of subsidies for other clubs). That their fans show up in huge numbers, support the club and are happy. I'm not certain people and fans like you could ever be happy or support their club like that. And if you can't or don't, they beat you AND DESERVE TOO!

Like I stated, there are 3 teams in Southern California and another one soon coming to Las Vegas, along with about another dozen pro teams to root for. YES!!! Southern California is baseball crazy but the Dodgers don't have a monopoly on it and neither does baseball, THEY EARN THAT BUSINESS!

I think it's kind of confusing and contradicting to state the Cards are one of the richest teams, yet make no money and you think crying poor for ticket sales. The Cards definitely need ticket sales and fans to show up, be happy, support the club, and build it up.

You are terrible girl!

:::sigh::: I don't know how else to explain this, butts in seats are no longer a major league teams primary goal. It is nothing but a small piece of the pie. The tv contracts, luxury boxes, and advertising dollars are all that matters. The Dodgers have 15 million more people to pull from than the Cards do. Therefore they can charge drastically more for televising rights, advertising dollars on tv and inside the park. The type of audience or where they are from makes little to no difference as far as any of that is concerned. The Dodgers can pay Ohtani 700 million dollars because their advertisers will pay significantly more money to be seen during a game because of the possibility of 10 million+ watching a game. The Cards and the vast majority of other teams can't pay Ohtani 700 million dollars because even if they get every eyeball in their cities watching and attending a game they still fall millions of eyeballs short of what LA can potentially have.

Can you possibly understand this now?

No, because it makes no sense and is way more complicated. So why aren't the LA Sparks or Chargers, LA FC soccer team more valuable and way out spend a team like the Kansas City Chiefs? So you are telling me if the Dodgers drew crowds like Tampa they would still be as good? So why aren't the Angels? Why aren't the Marlins a juggernaut?

This is nonsense you provide ma'am!

Are you stupid?

First off you can stop calling me ma'am I'm not a woman.

Secondly, the Chargers can't outspend the Chiefs because the NFL has a salary cap. In fact the Chargers can't spend more than what the salary cap allows them. MLB does not have a salary cap, just an idiotic luxury tax which the rich teams scoff at. The Dodgers are making a mockery of the luxury tax and they couldn't possibly care less.

The Marlins? Are you seriously asking why the Marlins can't outspend the Dodgers? If the Dodgers drew crowds like Tampa, yes they would still be as good because they, I can't believe I'm having to say this yet again, get the vast majority of their money from the following: tv contract, advertising, and luxury box sales.

The Angels tried to be the Dodgers and overpaid for over the hill free agents and didn't pay for any pitching. They could score with the best of them, but couldn't stop them from scoring. As of today, the Dodgers pitching staff alone makes more money than some teams payrolls.

Do you finally, finally, finally understand?

So sorry lady didn't mean offend you, I call you ma'am like I like to mispell words as a form of colloquialism to try and get along.

Thanks for proving my exact points though. It's not the size of the market that matters, it's the structure and rules of the league along with how passionate and how much the "fans" care.

Go throw some of the fun juce in the egg nog and lighten up girl.

[makesnosense]

lA has been a huge market since forever. When Fox and later when McCourt owned the team they sucked.

It took smart owners with deep pockets to develop the revenue that had been sitting there untapped.

The argument about the market is a bit odd given they’ve been good for about 8-10 years but LA has been a huge market far longer. The key to the dodgers is not money alone and I would go so far as to say their brain trust is far more valuable than their checkbook.

Baseball is broke. But not likely to be fixed. Strike or no strike. Lockout or no lockout. The brewers are in a horrible market and still can compete. If that’s possible why can’t the cardinals?

Yes they completely revamped the organization, but you can't have a payroll that's almost a billion dollars simply because you have a well run front office.

McCourt during the majority of his ownership was going through his divorce so he was always distracted.

The new owners have revenue streams outside of baseball that make it so they can spend this type of money and not be personally affected if the season goes sideways.

Revenue streams like Ballpark village? 1 Cardinal way? Those revenue streams are a direct result of Cardinal baseball.

[60 year Cardinal fan]

Yes, baseball is broken. The only people who refuse that fact are either fans of those few large markets or complete idiots.

No, it's the opposite! Dodgers fans showed up 4 million strong, root like crazy ( in a fun and happy way) people love their players and management, love baseball and pay big bucks to see it.

The system isn't really that broken, you "best fans in baseball" are. Yeah, Cards could definitely use a TV deal like that.

I’ve read your junk patiently without responding for a while now, but enough is enough. I have been a Cardinal fan since the late 1940’s because my dad and grandpa were fans. I don’t need some wise a—s Johnny come lately to lecture me on being a good fan. Dewitt dumped this team long before the 3 million per year fans started leaving. I am still a fan of Cardinal baseball, I’m just not a fan of the DeWitts.

[TheJackBurton]

lA has been a huge market since forever. When Fox and later when McCourt owned the team they sucked.

It took smart owners with deep pockets to develop the revenue that had been sitting there untapped.

The argument about the market is a bit odd given they’ve been good for about 8-10 years but LA has been a huge market far longer. The key to the dodgers is not money alone and I would go so far as to say their brain trust is far more valuable than their checkbook.

Baseball is broke. But not likely to be fixed. Strike or no strike. Lockout or no lockout. The brewers are in a horrible market and still can compete. If that’s possible why can’t the cardinals?

Yes they completely revamped the organization, but you can't have a payroll that's almost a billion dollars simply because you have a well run front office.

McCourt during the majority of his ownership was going through his divorce so he was always distracted.

The new owners have revenue streams outside of baseball that make it so they can spend this type of money and not be personally affected if the season goes sideways.

Revenue streams like Ballpark village? 1 Cardinal way? Those revenue streams are a direct result of Cardinal baseball.

You think those bring in nearly as much money as what the Dodgers ownership group brings in? I sincerely doubt that.

[TheJackBurton]

Dodgers drew 4 million in an area of maybe 14M to 18M people with a peaking team.

Cardinals drew 2.5 million in an area of maybe 3M people with a cratering team. Okay, be honest, it was 2.5M tickets but 1.5M people .

This huge difference shows up most strongly in Monday to Thursday games... which is around half of the games.
Working people aren't often going drive over an hour to attend a weeknight game.
They would watch on TV, but MLB is rarely on TV outside of St Louis unless you pay for a package.

There are 3 teams in Southern California. The Cards have historically owned the Southern Midwest and still have fans in lots of other places around the Midwest. Maybe if Cardinals fan types didn't kill economies and adopted a more fun loving and open type mindset you wouldn't destroy St. Louis either and more fans would show up during the week.

What in the holy hell are you even talking about?

Not sure if we are allowed to conversate about such things, but this topic has passed and it's about luxury tax. THE PEOPLE OF HOLLYWOOD CAN AND DO AFFORD A LUXURY TAX AND HAVE WORLD CHAMPS TO ROOT FOR! The people of rural West Virginia, Kansas, Arkansas etc are whining about their luxury tax being hire than the whole payroll of the Cards. So root for the rural West Virginia team as i want to compete with the Dodgers! I'm not "talking" I'm posting about economics and the structures of economics. Which you lose at like you do at baseball!

None of this makes any sense unless you just did an 8 ball before typing any of it.

What is so hard to understand?

Dodgers and people of LA/ Hollywood are rich. Cardinals fans from rural Oklahoma, Kansas West Virginia, Missouri are not. It's obvious as to why, and obvious as to why more players would rather go there.

What do economic situations have to do with anything? The Cards are one of the richest franchises in baseball even with those "backwoods hillbillies" buying up those tickets compared to Champagne ticket buyers.

Do you even have any idea what point you are trying to make?

It doesn't matter if all the Cards attracted was billionaires, they don't have a tv market of 18 million people, they have a tv market of 3 million that's the difference in today's baseball world.

The Dodgers make money before they sell ticket 1, the Cards don't. Your point is completely idiotic.

"What do economic situations have to do with anything?" What kind of babbling nonsense is this? Obviously people and fans that have better economic situations can support their team and recreational activities at better levels, have more free time to enjoy them, can and will enjoy them along with being in a position to do so if they want.

Prove to me the Cards are " one of the richest richest franchises in baseball". I see a team struggling to keep their head above water trying to remain relevant as the big dogs scavenge their parts for something that might help them.

Not all Cards fans are " backwoods hillbillies" and I WOULD NEVER STATE SUCH A THING! A lot of Dodgers fans are immigrants and of not ""champagne" type fans, just folks that love baseball, America and want to be a part of something successful they can identify with.

Obviously the point I'm trying to make (on this headline and particular subject) is, the Dodgers can draw the masses, they can get the people to buy into what they are selling, generate huge revenues (even to a point of subsidies for other clubs). That their fans show up in huge numbers, support the club and are happy. I'm not certain people and fans like you could ever be happy or support their club like that. And if you can't or don't, they beat you AND DESERVE TOO!

Like I stated, there are 3 teams in Southern California and another one soon coming to Las Vegas, along with about another dozen pro teams to root for. YES!!! Southern California is baseball crazy but the Dodgers don't have a monopoly on it and neither does baseball, THEY EARN THAT BUSINESS!

I think it's kind of confusing and contradicting to state the Cards are one of the richest teams, yet make no money and you think crying poor for ticket sales. The Cards definitely need ticket sales and fans to show up, be happy, support the club, and build it up.

You are terrible girl!

:::sigh::: I don't know how else to explain this, butts in seats are no longer a major league teams primary goal. It is nothing but a small piece of the pie. The tv contracts, luxury boxes, and advertising dollars are all that matters. The Dodgers have 15 million more people to pull from than the Cards do. Therefore they can charge drastically more for televising rights, advertising dollars on tv and inside the park. The type of audience or where they are from makes little to no difference as far as any of that is concerned. The Dodgers can pay Ohtani 700 million dollars because their advertisers will pay significantly more money to be seen during a game because of the possibility of 10 million+ watching a game. The Cards and the vast majority of other teams can't pay Ohtani 700 million dollars because even if they get every eyeball in their cities watching and attending a game they still fall millions of eyeballs short of what LA can potentially have.

Can you possibly understand this now?

No, because it makes no sense and is way more complicated. So why aren't the LA Sparks or Chargers, LA FC soccer team more valuable and way out spend a team like the Kansas City Chiefs? So you are telling me if the Dodgers drew crowds like Tampa they would still be as good? So why aren't the Angels? Why aren't the Marlins a juggernaut?

This is nonsense you provide ma'am!

Are you stupid?

First off you can stop calling me ma'am I'm not a woman.

Secondly, the Chargers can't outspend the Chiefs because the NFL has a salary cap. In fact the Chargers can't spend more than what the salary cap allows them. MLB does not have a salary cap, just an idiotic luxury tax which the rich teams scoff at. The Dodgers are making a mockery of the luxury tax and they couldn't possibly care less.

The Marlins? Are you seriously asking why the Marlins can't outspend the Dodgers? If the Dodgers drew crowds like Tampa, yes they would still be as good because they, I can't believe I'm having to say this yet again, get the vast majority of their money from the following: tv contract, advertising, and luxury box sales.

The Angels tried to be the Dodgers and overpaid for over the hill free agents and didn't pay for any pitching. They could score with the best of them, but couldn't stop them from scoring. As of today, the Dodgers pitching staff alone makes more money than some teams payrolls.

Do you finally, finally, finally understand?

So sorry lady didn't mean offend you, I call you ma'am like I like to mispell words as a form of colloquialism to try and get along.

Thanks for proving my exact points though. It's not the size of the market that matters, it's the structure and rules of the league along with how passionate and how much the "fans" care.

Go throw some of the fun juce in the egg nog and lighten up girl.

Now you are calling me a lady and a girl?

You didn't make a point though, you compared a league with no salary cap whatsoever, to a league with a salary cap.

You have no idea what you are talking about do you?

[makesnosense]

lA has been a huge market since forever. When Fox and later when McCourt owned the team they sucked.

It took smart owners with deep pockets to develop the revenue that had been sitting there untapped.

The argument about the market is a bit odd given they’ve been good for about 8-10 years but LA has been a huge market far longer. The key to the dodgers is not money alone and I would go so far as to say their brain trust is far more valuable than their checkbook.

Baseball is broke. But not likely to be fixed. Strike or no strike. Lockout or no lockout. The brewers are in a horrible market and still can compete. If that’s possible why can’t the cardinals?

Yes they completely revamped the organization, but you can't have a payroll that's almost a billion dollars simply because you have a well run front office.

McCourt during the majority of his ownership was going through his divorce so he was always distracted.

The new owners have revenue streams outside of baseball that make it so they can spend this type of money and not be personally affected if the season goes sideways.

Revenue streams like Ballpark village? 1 Cardinal way? Those revenue streams are a direct result of Cardinal baseball.

You think those bring in nearly as much money as what the Dodgers ownership group brings in? I sincerely doubt that.

Just asked a question. But it is revenue that the baseball team is responsible for bringing in.