Contreras to Red Sox

[45s]

Very encouraging to see Rock’s Boner so aggressive in reshaping the roster…

[Cusecards]

Older, relatively highly paid vets have no home in a rebuild. It's that simple. Call it what you like, he had to go.

Correct and I said this last year……if this was the end game it should’ve been initiated LAST offseason instead of ASKING if these guys wanted to stay.
The time wasted by this ownership…….

The former regime kept trying to "compete" with an inadequate base rather than clearing house so, yes, it should have been initiated last year or even before that. But it wasn't then so the time is now.

They had to ask if they wanted to stay. They had no trade clauses, the team couldn't just move them without their say so. Arenado said no last year. End of story. Gray and Contreras said they wanted to stay. End of story. Blame the previous guy for getting them into this mess, not the current guy for doing what he can to start getting them out of it.

If you don't have the stomach for a re-build go away and come back when the weather is more fair.

Good post.

Perfect post!
The fact that he and Web7 are critical of the deals excites me to no end!
I think everyone here knows their track records for Hindsight Brilliance.

Cuse I’m glad you’re excited…..make sure to keep some wet wipes handy

You personify the saying that “Ignorance is Bliss”!
Now that you’ve singled me out as usual please respond to the other half dozen or so posters who share my opinion of your whining and crying.

Cuse….just about every one of your posts calls out my handle whether I’m in that thread or not and when I reply to you you complain about it
Listen enjoy your time on CT, attempting to debate baseball topics with you is like having a conversation with a 2 yr old. Merry Christmas

Still waiting for you to respond to the OTHER dozen or so posters who have called you a whiner and a troll?
Ok PG?
We don’t like each other. At least I’m man enough to admit it.
Change your Depends!

[hugeCardfan]

I mean we already didn’t have any RH bats and now we lose our best one? Lol

That is a classic non sequitur. How does one lose the best of what they didn't have in the first place?

[Melville]

I mean we already didn’t have any RH bats and now we lose our best one? Lol

This is about moving Herrera to 1B.

Probably more Burleson to first

Burleson can already play first.
This is about adding a RH to the mix in replacement of Herrera.
Unless, of course, the Donovan deal is done and yet another 1B is headed to STL.

“Burleson can already play first?!”
By “play” do you mean stand over there?
All stats and the eye test tell us all he’s a stiff at the position - negatives per DRS, OAA and FRV.
Not agile and slow as molasses = no range; and a negative arm. What’s not to like? Ha.

606 career innings.
.994 field pct.
3 glove errors.
1 throwing error.
And for those who put trust in such things +4 UZR per 150 games, and -1 DRS for his career while playing 1B.
Facts.
All I do.
Free of bias.
Free of agenda.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

Best of luck to an outstanding player who did nothing but show class during his time here.

Good luck WillyC!

Yup. Was a good signing. Good player. Hope he has fun in Boston.

[Absolut]

Mo would have let Contreras walk. And then signed him at 39 for leadership

[Bomber1]

Older, relatively highly paid vets have no home in a rebuild. It's that simple. Call it what you like, he had to go.

Correct and I said this last year……if this was the end game it should’ve been initiated LAST offseason instead of ASKING if these guys wanted to stay.
The time wasted by this ownership…….

The former regime kept trying to "compete" with an inadequate base rather than clearing house so, yes, it should have been initiated last year or even before that. But it wasn't then so the time is now.

They had to ask if they wanted to stay. They had no trade clauses, the team couldn't just move them without their say so. Arenado said no last year. End of story. Gray and Contreras said they wanted to stay. End of story. Blame the previous guy for getting them into this mess, not the current guy for doing what he can to start getting them out of it.

If you don't have the stomach for a re-build go away and come back when the weather is more fair.

Good post.

Last season was “Let the Youth Play”…..Even the FO’s official public stance had nothing to do vets or winning. BDW and MO and Bloom should’ve traded ALL those contracts last offseason. Instead they ASKED if they wanted to stay
Again this Ownership doesn’t care about wasting time……or your money…..or your allegiance…..if any fan actually looks at this cluster with a realistic eye they wouldn’t put another dime into chitshow. NOW BDW is loading his own pockets with payroll and the fan will wait multiple seasons with great anticipation for Bloom “rebuild” to emerge. Nothing returned in trades so far is going launch a glorious rebuild.

You and I both agreed that Mozeliak is a full-blown idiot. He left on his own terms due to his and DeWitt’s complicity in HackGate. So yes the rebuild was stupidly delayed.

Bloom is not Mozeliak (thank God). He has only been in control for 3 months. At this point I want this team to accumulate as many prospects as possible, and IMO Bloom’s first 2 trades are solid steps towards future contention.

I really don’t understand what you continue to complain about. You hated Mozeliak and the complete lack of a coherent plan under his regime. Now he’s gone, and 3 months later you think this team is never going to win again?

I am willing to give Bloom the benefit of the doubt. And I am willing to give him 3 years, not 3 months, to accomplish his plan, which unlike Mozeliak’s, is a real plan.

I don’t think Mo was the entire problem. BDW was and is still running the show. And it’s obvious he’s in SAVE MONEY mode. As I’ve stated the return so far are not the difference makers in this “rebuild” process. It’s mostly filler with the hope one shines off in the future…..sometime.
That’s what we’re left with as a Cardinals fan?? Last season was a GIANT waste of time. Keeping Vets when you publicly state the intentions is play all the youth. If WC and GRAY agreed to a trade now they could’ve been persuaded last season. And Bloom was in the house with a signed POBO contract, this thought that he had no say last season is ridiculous

Mozeliak, in his usual loser fashion, actually thought this team had a chance last year. That’s why he hung on to Fedde and Helsley so he sure as hell wasn’t going to part with Gray and Contreras.

If you think Bloom had equal sway as Mozeliak at that time, I’m not sure what to say. Except he didn’t.

The rebuild is in full swing. And I and many others believe this club will come out of the rebuild much stronger than the Cards’ teams if the past 8-10 years.

And your comment about “return are not difference makers” is just your opinion. I prefer to wait and see how they all pan out before making such pronouncements.

[12xu]

Best of luck to an outstanding player who did nothing but show class during his time here.

Good luck WillyC!

Yup. Was a good signing. Good player. Hope he has fun in Boston.

Nope, he was not a good signing. Another one of Mo's poorly thought out moves. He was known as a flawed defensive catcher, and once he signed him to a five year contract, Mo suddenly found this out.
He is a good player, not great. I hope he puts a lot of dents in that Green Monster. Might lead the Sawx in singles off that wall.

[ClassicO]

I mean we already didn’t have any RH bats and now we lose our best one? Lol

This is about moving Herrera to 1B.

Probably more Burleson to first

Burleson can already play first.
This is about adding a RH to the mix in replacement of Herrera.
Unless, of course, the Donovan deal is done and yet another 1B is headed to STL.

“Burleson can already play first?!”
By “play” do you mean stand over there?
All stats and the eye test tell us all he’s a stiff at the position - negatives per DRS, OAA and FRV.
Not agile and slow as molasses = no range; and a negative arm. What’s not to like? Ha.

606 career innings.
.994 field pct.
3 glove errors.
1 throwing error.
And for those who put trust in such things +4 UZR per 150 games, and -1 DRS for his career while playing 1B.
Facts.
All I do.
Free of bias.
Free of agenda.

Apparently, you have a lot of bias to ignore stats and his inherent inabilities.
That fielding % puts him 38th among 1b with more than 350 innings (he had 356). And -- I'd rather have more errors but have a guy who has good range. It reminds me of the idiots who argued that Reitz was better than Mike Schmidt because Schmidt had a lot of errors -- but Schmidt had over 100 more chances than Rietz, so he won the GGs.
Burly's -1 DRS was 31st. Fielding run value (Baseball Bible) was 28th.
His UZR/150 is the only positive rating and it's not applicable for any one season for him since he hasn't played 150 games in a season.

[Goldfan]

Older, relatively highly paid vets have no home in a rebuild. It's that simple. Call it what you like, he had to go.

Correct and I said this last year……if this was the end game it should’ve been initiated LAST offseason instead of ASKING if these guys wanted to stay.
The time wasted by this ownership…….

The former regime kept trying to "compete" with an inadequate base rather than clearing house so, yes, it should have been initiated last year or even before that. But it wasn't then so the time is now.

They had to ask if they wanted to stay. They had no trade clauses, the team couldn't just move them without their say so. Arenado said no last year. End of story. Gray and Contreras said they wanted to stay. End of story. Blame the previous guy for getting them into this mess, not the current guy for doing what he can to start getting them out of it.

If you don't have the stomach for a re-build go away and come back when the weather is more fair.

Good post.

Last season was “Let the Youth Play”…..Even the FO’s official public stance had nothing to do vets or winning. BDW and MO and Bloom should’ve traded ALL those contracts last offseason. Instead they ASKED if they wanted to stay
Again this Ownership doesn’t care about wasting time……or your money…..or your allegiance…..if any fan actually looks at this cluster with a realistic eye they wouldn’t put another dime into chitshow. NOW BDW is loading his own pockets with payroll and the fan will wait multiple seasons with great anticipation for Bloom “rebuild” to emerge. Nothing returned in trades so far is going launch a glorious rebuild.

You and I both agreed that Mozeliak is a full-blown idiot. He left on his own terms due to his and DeWitt’s complicity in HackGate. So yes the rebuild was stupidly delayed.

Bloom is not Mozeliak (thank God). He has only been in control for 3 months. At this point I want this team to accumulate as many prospects as possible, and IMO Bloom’s first 2 trades are solid steps towards future contention.

I really don’t understand what you continue to complain about. You hated Mozeliak and the complete lack of a coherent plan under his regime. Now he’s gone, and 3 months later you think this team is never going to win again?

I am willing to give Bloom the benefit of the doubt. And I am willing to give him 3 years, not 3 months, to accomplish his plan, which unlike Mozeliak’s, is a real plan.

I don’t think Mo was the entire problem. BDW was and is still running the show. And it’s obvious he’s in SAVE MONEY mode. As I’ve stated the return so far are not the difference makers in this “rebuild” process. It’s mostly filler with the hope one shines off in the future…..sometime.
That’s what we’re left with as a Cardinals fan?? Last season was a GIANT waste of time. Keeping Vets when you publicly state the intentions is play all the youth. If WC and GRAY agreed to a trade now they could’ve been persuaded last season. And Bloom was in the house with a signed POBO contract, this thought that he had no say last season is ridiculous

Mozeliak, in his usual loser fashion, actually thought this team had a chance last year. That’s why he hung on to Fedde and Helsley so he sure as hell wasn’t going to part with Gray and Contreras.

If you think Bloom had equal sway as Mozeliak at that time, I’m not sure what to say. Except he didn’t.

The rebuild is in full swing. And I and many others believe this club will come out of the rebuild much stronger than the Cards’ teams if the past 8-10 years.

And your comment about “return are not difference makers” is just your opinion. I prefer to wait and see how they all pan out before making such pronouncements.

May and Fitts are not better than Fedde and Miles, Dobbins has had 2 ACL surgeries…..so there are indicators. Now if anyone thinks that when these fellas fall under the great leadership of Oli and Dusty it’ll be a talent awakening…….

[CCard]

More payroll cutting by the pennywise cheapskate DeWitt. How far to the bone will they cut? Best pitcher gone. Best hitter now gone. Best reliever or infielder up next? Why not just field an entire AAA team and call them the AAAA Cardinals? I imagine attendance will be down after they put up losses in 2 out of 3 games early on. Normal people would be ashamed, but wait! We have JJ(who hasn't faced a pitch in the majors) to save us and excite the fan base. LOL

[ClassicO]

Would the “best hitter” and “best pitcher” from last year led the team to the playoffs in 2026?

A lot of money for two older players who, if a GM has half a brain, would know they had to be traded while they could bring back prospects, preferably high risk/high ceiling guys along with a few players who can keep the team afloat.

[renostl]

Would the “best hitter” and “best pitcher” from last year led the team to the playoffs in 2026?

A lot of money for two older players who, if a GM has half a brain, would know they had to be traded while they could bring back prospects, preferably high risk/high ceiling guys along with a few players who can keep the team afloat.

Does that really matter?
We don't know what might happen with them and some additions.

I agree with moving on from both of those players and NA.
They just are not productive enough to take away the percentage of
whatever the is for the majority of MLB teams.

[juan good eye]

Would’ve preferred more quality over quantity but glad to see another general move in the right direction and the official end to the WC era.

They weren’t ever going to get top level prospects for Contreras he’s a solid complimentary player on a good team he’s not the guy. At his age and his contract the best they could do is about what they did one who can attribute this season in the rotation and a couple of intriguing arms at the lower levels

I just want one. Would trade all of the destined-to-move assets for 1 instead of the assortment of jags. Hope they nail the draft and international signings.

[renostl]

Would’ve preferred more quality over quantity but glad to see another general move in the right direction and the official end to the WC era.

They weren’t ever going to get top level prospects for Contreras he’s a solid complimentary player on a good team he’s not the guy. At his age and his contract the best they could do is about what they did one who can attribute this season in the rotation and a couple of intriguing arms at the lower levels

I just want one. Would trade all of the destined-to-move assets for 1 instead of the assortment of jags. Hope they nail the draft and international signings.

Understand.
Part of this is that SG and WC aren't going to but a few teams even without the NTC's.
If those few teams say "no" to the players on the top of your list, then what?

Take just one opportunity of getting production or 2 or 3 opportunities?

The same will happen with Donovan. The differences are that he appeals to
more teams AND the Cards can easily walk away and wait. He provides
production over his contract. The 2 to Boston, not so much, but
they did provide production, far better than NA being sold on reputation
of production to a very few teams.

[CardsBest]

What really stand out to me is Cards lack of prospect depth compared to Boston.
They said Yhoiker Fajardo was Red Sox 29th ranked prospect and he is now the Cards 9th ranked prospect.