New Donovan suitor .. familiar team

[mattmitchl44]

Oh please don't have T. Saggese starting at 3rd base (or 2nd base), he'd be one of the worst hitting 3rd/2nd baseman in MLB.

He's an end of the bench player at best.

If he starts as anything, Saggese starts as the "short side" of a platoon (RH hitter vs. LHP). He'd have to excel at that before you think about expanding his PT.

[Talkin' Baseball]

Oh please don't have T. Saggese starting at 3rd base (or 2nd base), he'd be one of the worst hitting 3rd/2nd baseman in MLB.

He's an end of the bench player at best.

It seems to me like he is somewhere in between the 2 extremes you describe.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Oh please don't have T. Saggese starting at 3rd base (or 2nd base), he'd be one of the worst hitting 3rd/2nd baseman in MLB.

He's an end of the bench player at best.

It seems to me like he is somewhere in between the 2 extremes you describe.

That’s me. I woke in between; a fantasy and a dream.

[ScotchMIrish]

To get both Tolle AND Witherspoon I would add a couple of pieces to go with Donovan. Maybe Herrera or Burleson and a lesser pitching prospect.

That would give us a stable of pitching prospects and a solid infield.
C Crooks/Pages with Bernal/Rodriguez coming
1B Contreras/Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Saggese/Gorman

The outfield needs some work but it has for years. Maybe we could take some of the money we will save and finally address the outfield situation. Sounds like Walker will be in RF and Scott in CF. We have needed a RH hitting OFer for years and we have time to address that.

This is only December but when Donovan is moved (hopefully for some pitching), it will start to clear up the direction this team can go.

3B will be a question mark.

If the Cardinals have any notion in their player evaluations that either Gorman or Saggese could be even a 2+ fWAR solid regular for them, their approach to 2026 should still be to start out platooning them at 3B until one or the other, or both, or neither do more to prove themselves. That's precisely what 2026 should be for.

No offense intended but if the Cardinals are using fwar to determine their lineup we have a major problem.

Saggese has more upside but not much power. Gorman strikes out far too much for the little power he is generating. Either would likely be the 9 hitter in the lineup. Best case would be we acquire a good 3B prospect in one of these trades. Maybe for Contreras or Donovan?

I seriously doubt Gorman or Saggese will hit 9th. That's Scott's place.

Okay 8th. Not many good teams have 3B batting that low in the lineup.

That's Walkers spot. 8th.

True unless he reverts to his rookie year. It appears to me several coaches/analytics gurus have gotten inside his head since the promising rookie season.

Wouldn't that be the best scenario imaginable.

Yes and I noticed Bloom removed the game planner, assistant hitting and assistant pitching coaches. Too many cooks spoil the pot.

[rockondlouie]

Oh please don't have T. Saggese starting at 3rd base (or 2nd base), he'd be one of the worst hitting 3rd/2nd baseman in MLB.

He's an end of the bench player at best.

If he starts as anything, Saggese starts as the "short side" of a platoon (RH hitter vs. LHP). He'd have to excel at that before you think about expanding his PT.

Very short side as in only starting in an emergency because of an injury or if someone needs a day off.

I don't see any platoons unless NADO, Donny and Gorman are traded.

WillyC/1B (Bumbles if Willy's dealt)
JJW/2B
Winn/SS
NADO or Donny or Gorman/3B

[ScotchMIrish]

To get both Tolle AND Witherspoon I would add a couple of pieces to go with Donovan. Maybe Herrera or Burleson and a lesser pitching prospect.

That would give us a stable of pitching prospects and a solid infield.
C Crooks/Pages with Bernal/Rodriguez coming
1B Contreras/Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Saggese/Gorman

The outfield needs some work but it has for years. Maybe we could take some of the money we will save and finally address the outfield situation. Sounds like Walker will be in RF and Scott in CF. We have needed a RH hitting OFer for years and we have time to address that.

This is only December but when Donovan is moved (hopefully for some pitching), it will start to clear up the direction this team can go.

3B will be a question mark.

If the Cardinals have any notion in their player evaluations that either Gorman or Saggese could be even a 2+ fWAR solid regular for them, their approach to 2026 should still be to start out platooning them at 3B until one or the other, or both, or neither do more to prove themselves. That's precisely what 2026 should be for.

No offense intended but if the Cardinals are using fwar to determine their lineup we have a major problem.

Saggese has more upside but not much power. Gorman strikes out far too much for the little power he is generating. Either would likely be the 9 hitter in the lineup. Best case would be we acquire a good 3B prospect in one of these trades. Maybe for Contreras or Donovan?

fWAR of 2+ is going to be indicative of solid, league average performance over a season. For a 3B, it would be about an Addison Barger or Carlos Correa level of performance from last year.

So, yeah, that will mean something with regard to the productivity they get - however you want to measure it.

Having either Gorman, Saggese, or both demonstrate the capability of solid, ML average performance would be a meaningful development for the organization overall.

I'm not impressed with some of the analytics stuff especially war whether it's fangraphs or baseball reference doing the calculation.

Saggese lacks the power normally associated with 3B. Gorman strikes out far to much for the limited power he has. 3B is a hole unless Saggese progresses which could very well happen. I'd give 2B to Saggese or Wetherholt - whichever plays better defense. 3B to the other one but Bloom needs to acquire a 3B prospect. Can't have that little offense at 3B.

You can certainly decide that you want to specify a preference for how a particular player playing a particular position generates their value/"wins."

But, objectively, you can get value, "wins" for the team, from 3B (and other positions) from run production OR run prevention.

That's true but third base is corner position and most of the time teams put a guy there who is an adequate fielder with a bat. If we had great offense elsewhere I'd say we could get by with subpar offense at 3B but I'm not seeing that in the Cardinals for the foreseeable future. What's interesting is that Saggese was acquired in a trade last season. Apparently we developed nobody in the minor league system over the last few years.

[rockondlouie]

Oh please don't have T. Saggese starting at 3rd base (or 2nd base), he'd be one of the worst hitting 3rd/2nd baseman in MLB.

He's an end of the bench player at best.

It seems to me like he is somewhere in between the 2 extremes you describe.

No extremes (IMO) TB, Saggese is J.A.G.

No power (career .336 slg%), doesn't get on base (career .292 OB%), can't run (career 3 SB's) average at best fielder w/a weak arm.

Not sure why some Cardinals fans (not you) fall in love w/these types of players.

J.A.G.

[mattmitchl44]

Oh please don't have T. Saggese starting at 3rd base (or 2nd base), he'd be one of the worst hitting 3rd/2nd baseman in MLB.

He's an end of the bench player at best.

If he starts as anything, Saggese starts as the "short side" of a platoon (RH hitter vs. LHP). He'd have to excel at that before you think about expanding his PT.

Very short side as in only starting in an emergency because of an injury or if someone needs a day off.

I don't see any platoons unless NADO, Donny and Gorman are traded.

WillyC/1B (Bumbles if Willy's dealt)
JJW/2B
Winn/SS
NADO or Donny or Gorman/3B

I could see a Saggese/Gorman platoon at 3B.

[rockondlouie]

Oh please don't have T. Saggese starting at 3rd base (or 2nd base), he'd be one of the worst hitting 3rd/2nd baseman in MLB.

He's an end of the bench player at best.

If he starts as anything, Saggese starts as the "short side" of a platoon (RH hitter vs. LHP). He'd have to excel at that before you think about expanding his PT.

Very short side as in only starting in an emergency because of an injury or if someone needs a day off.

I don't see any platoons unless NADO, Donny and Gorman are traded.

WillyC/1B (Bumbles if Willy's dealt)
JJW/2B
Winn/SS
NADO or Donny or Gorman/3B

I could see a Saggese/Gorman platoon at 3B.

I think C. Bloom will want to see if they can re-hab N. Gorman's career given the huge upside if they get it fixed.

Saggese isn't a 3rd baseman, his bat there would be a joke and he's got a weak arm.

It (platoon) could happen, especially if NADO & Donny are traded and Gorman gets off to a slow start.

But it would be very ugly if Saggese starts anywhere.

[mattmitchl44]

Oh please don't have T. Saggese starting at 3rd base (or 2nd base), he'd be one of the worst hitting 3rd/2nd baseman in MLB.

He's an end of the bench player at best.

If he starts as anything, Saggese starts as the "short side" of a platoon (RH hitter vs. LHP). He'd have to excel at that before you think about expanding his PT.

Very short side as in only starting in an emergency because of an injury or if someone needs a day off.

I don't see any platoons unless NADO, Donny and Gorman are traded.

WillyC/1B (Bumbles if Willy's dealt)
JJW/2B
Winn/SS
NADO or Donny or Gorman/3B

I could see a Saggese/Gorman platoon at 3B.

I think C. Bloom will want to see if they can re-hab N. Gorman's career given the huge upside if they get it fixed.

Saggese isn't a 3rd baseman, his bat there would be a joke and he's got a weak arm.

It (platoon) could happen, especially if NADO & Donny are traded and Gorman gets off to a slow start.

But it would be very ugly if Saggese starts anywhere.

In rehabbing Gorman I would begin the season by starting him only against RHPs. Once he excels vs. RHPs then I give him more PT vs. LHPs.

Platoon Saggese and Gorman and let them earn taking PT away from the other.

[rockondlouie]

Oh please don't have T. Saggese starting at 3rd base (or 2nd base), he'd be one of the worst hitting 3rd/2nd baseman in MLB.

He's an end of the bench player at best.

If he starts as anything, Saggese starts as the "short side" of a platoon (RH hitter vs. LHP). He'd have to excel at that before you think about expanding his PT.

Very short side as in only starting in an emergency because of an injury or if someone needs a day off.

I don't see any platoons unless NADO, Donny and Gorman are traded.

WillyC/1B (Bumbles if Willy's dealt)
JJW/2B
Winn/SS
NADO or Donny or Gorman/3B

I could see a Saggese/Gorman platoon at 3B.

I think C. Bloom will want to see if they can re-hab N. Gorman's career given the huge upside if they get it fixed.

Saggese isn't a 3rd baseman, his bat there would be a joke and he's got a weak arm.

It (platoon) could happen, especially if NADO & Donny are traded and Gorman gets off to a slow start.

But it would be very ugly if Saggese starts anywhere.

In rehabbing Gorman I would begin the season by starting him only against RHPs. Once he excels vs. RHPs then I give him more PT vs. LHPs.

Platoon Saggese and Gorman and let them earn taking PT away from the other.

Norman's actually been okay vs LHP (.740 OPS in 2025/.717 career), I wouldn't platoon him.

I just don't see Saggese as a viable starter anywhere matt, he's got no valuable offensive talent.

[Talkin' Baseball]

With Alonso signing with the rival Orioles, I wonder if this familiar team would be interested in Alec Burleson, or Willson Contreras to play 1B for them. I would love to find a way to obtain Kyson Witherspoon from them.

[wschreiber]

Getting Witherspoon would be a great move. They take Contreras, it might open up 1st for Herrera.

[Talkin' Baseball]

Getting Witherspoon would be a great move. They take Contreras, it might open up 1st for Herrera.

We would have to pay a lot of money with Contreras, or add someone else into the deal to get him. Burleson by himself might do it though.

[wschreiber]

Like your ideas, Witherspoon would be the prize. Be interesting to see what it would take, if they would even consider trading him.