New Donovan suitor .. familiar team

[ramfandan]

https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles ... 5_43184005

That would be interesting to do a 2nd deal with Boston after the Sonny Gray trade. Seems others may have been in the hunt longer but thought I would share this as it was posted tonight.

[renostl]

https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles ... 5_43184005

That would be interesting to do a 2nd deal with Boston after the Sonny Gray trade. Seems others may have been in the hunt longer but thought I would share this as it was posted tonight.

At one time I thought it was a possibility.
Now with Boston in on everyone including Marte, Bichette, Bregman, Tucker, and Alonso
I kind of think he's on too low of a shelf for them.

[ICCFIM2]

https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles ... 5_43184005

That would be interesting to do a 2nd deal with Boston after the Sonny Gray trade. Seems others may have been in the hunt longer but thought I would share this as it was posted tonight.

At one time I thought it was a possibility.
Now with Boston in on everyone including Marte, Bichette, Bregman, Tucker, and Alonso
I kind of think he's on too low of a shelf for them.

Hard to say. After what Bregman has put them through, grabbing Donovan gives them a low cost guy that can play anywhere and allows them to pursue all of the guys you still mentioned while strengthening their team. Now, if we throw in a catcher, Crooks(?), with Donovan, can we get both Payton Tolle and Kyson Witherspoon? If the Cards did that, that would have a completed starting rotation in 2026 including a guy who has TOR potential, albeit, it will take some work.

They could then pivot to trying to land an OF for Contreras. If they can trade Arenado, perhaps they can surprise everyone and use all the money they signed to try and sign one of the Japanese 3B...

[renostl]

https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles ... 5_43184005

That would be interesting to do a 2nd deal with Boston after the Sonny Gray trade. Seems others may have been in the hunt longer but thought I would share this as it was posted tonight.

At one time I thought it was a possibility.
Now with Boston in on everyone including Marte, Bichette, Bregman, Tucker, and Alonso
I kind of think he's on too low of a shelf for them.

Hard to say. After what Bregman has put them through, grabbing Donovan gives them a low cost guy that can play anywhere and allows them to pursue all of the guys you still mentioned while strengthening their team. Now, if we throw in a catcher, Crooks(?), with Donovan, can we get both Payton Tolle and Kyson Witherspoon? If the Cards did that, that would have a completed starting rotation in 2026 including a guy who has TOR potential, albeit, it will take some work.

They could then pivot to trying to land an OF for Contreras. If they can trade Arenado, perhaps they can surprise everyone and use all the money they signed to try and sign one of the Japanese 3B...

When I looked before yes it had all that logic of being a deal that
would increase their flexibility to adjust as the season goes.

Bregman while good is an albatross waiting to be born. I'm not sure I'd call
Boston a favorite for any of the FA.

Tucker easily goes to the highest bidder.
The longer it plays out Tucker and Donovan worked in my head. That path works
best though if they are proactive with Donovan and then go all in all the big bat.
But (bleep) when you ask which player doesn't look like the others, BD stands out.

[Whatashame]

To get both Tolle AND Witherspoon I would add a couple of pieces to go with Donovan. Maybe Herrera or Burleson and a lesser pitching prospect.

That would give us a stable of pitching prospects and a solid infield.
C Crooks/Pages with Bernal/Rodriguez coming
1B Contreras/Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Saggese/Gorman

The outfield needs some work but it has for years. Maybe we could take some of the money we will save and finally address the outfield situation. Sounds like Walker will be in RF and Scott in CF. We have needed a RH hitting OFer for years and we have time to address that.

This is only December but when Donovan is moved (hopefully for some pitching), it will start to clear up the direction this team can go.

[ICCFIM2]

To get both Tolle AND Witherspoon I would add a couple of pieces to go with Donovan. Maybe Herrera or Burleson and a lesser pitching prospect.

That would give us a stable of pitching prospects and a solid infield.
C Crooks/Pages with Bernal/Rodriguez coming
1B Contreras/Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Saggese/Gorman

The outfield needs some work but it has for years. Maybe we could take some of the money we will save and finally address the outfield situation. Sounds like Walker will be in RF and Scott in CF. We have needed a RH hitting OFer for years and we have time to address that.

This is only December but when Donovan is moved (hopefully for some pitching), it will start to clear up the direction this team can go.

I am not throwing Herrera into any deal. He is our best bet to be an elite bat. BTV has Tolle at 31 and Kyson Witherspoon at 17.7. totaling 48.7. Crooks is 11 and Donovan is 31 totaling 42. Most of these trades so far, veterans for prospects, have given an 8-12M premium for the veteran players. So that seems about right, the Cards give up $42M and receive $48.7M. Ivan Herrera is 23.8. That would be a massive overpay by the Cards to put him in this deal.

[2ninr]

To get both Tolle AND Witherspoon I would add a couple of pieces to go with Donovan. Maybe Herrera or Burleson and a lesser pitching prospect.

That would give us a stable of pitching prospects and a solid infield.
C Crooks/Pages with Bernal/Rodriguez coming
1B Contreras/Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Saggese/Gorman

The outfield needs some work but it has for years. Maybe we could take some of the money we will save and finally address the outfield situation. Sounds like Walker will be in RF and Scott in CF. We have needed a RH hitting OFer for years and we have time to address that.

This is only December but when Donovan is moved (hopefully for some pitching), it will start to clear up the direction this team can go.

I am not throwing Herrera into any deal. He is our best bet to be an elite bat. BTV has Tolle at 31 and Kyson Witherspoon at 17.7. totaling 48.7. Crooks is 11 and Donovan is 31 totaling 42. Most of these trades so far, veterans for prospects, have given an 8-12M premium for the veteran players. So that seems about right, the Cards give up $42M and receive $48.7M. Ivan Herrera is 23.8. That would be a massive overpay by the Cards to put him in this deal.

Btv isn't necessarily accurate at judging players, but it seems to always be in the ballpark when these trades go down.

[ScotchMIrish]

To get both Tolle AND Witherspoon I would add a couple of pieces to go with Donovan. Maybe Herrera or Burleson and a lesser pitching prospect.

That would give us a stable of pitching prospects and a solid infield.
C Crooks/Pages with Bernal/Rodriguez coming
1B Contreras/Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Saggese/Gorman

The outfield needs some work but it has for years. Maybe we could take some of the money we will save and finally address the outfield situation. Sounds like Walker will be in RF and Scott in CF. We have needed a RH hitting OFer for years and we have time to address that.

This is only December but when Donovan is moved (hopefully for some pitching), it will start to clear up the direction this team can go.

3B will be a question mark.

[mattmitchl44]

To get both Tolle AND Witherspoon I would add a couple of pieces to go with Donovan. Maybe Herrera or Burleson and a lesser pitching prospect.

That would give us a stable of pitching prospects and a solid infield.
C Crooks/Pages with Bernal/Rodriguez coming
1B Contreras/Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Saggese/Gorman

The outfield needs some work but it has for years. Maybe we could take some of the money we will save and finally address the outfield situation. Sounds like Walker will be in RF and Scott in CF. We have needed a RH hitting OFer for years and we have time to address that.

This is only December but when Donovan is moved (hopefully for some pitching), it will start to clear up the direction this team can go.

3B will be a question mark.

If the Cardinals have any notion in their player evaluations that either Gorman or Saggese could be even a 2+ fWAR solid regular for them, their approach to 2026 should still be to start out platooning them at 3B until one or the other, or both, or neither do more to prove themselves. That's precisely what 2026 should be for.

[ScotchMIrish]

To get both Tolle AND Witherspoon I would add a couple of pieces to go with Donovan. Maybe Herrera or Burleson and a lesser pitching prospect.

That would give us a stable of pitching prospects and a solid infield.
C Crooks/Pages with Bernal/Rodriguez coming
1B Contreras/Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Saggese/Gorman

The outfield needs some work but it has for years. Maybe we could take some of the money we will save and finally address the outfield situation. Sounds like Walker will be in RF and Scott in CF. We have needed a RH hitting OFer for years and we have time to address that.

This is only December but when Donovan is moved (hopefully for some pitching), it will start to clear up the direction this team can go.

3B will be a question mark.

If the Cardinals have any notion in their player evaluations that either Gorman or Saggese could be even a 2+ fWAR solid regular for them, their approach to 2026 should still be to start out platooning them at 3B until one or the other, or both, or neither do more to prove themselves. That's precisely what 2026 should be for.

No offense intended but if the Cardinals are using fwar to determine their lineup we have a major problem.

Saggese has more upside but not much power. Gorman strikes out far too much for the little power he is generating. Either would likely be the 9 hitter in the lineup. Best case would be we acquire a good 3B prospect in one of these trades. Maybe for Contreras or Donovan?

[2ninr]

To get both Tolle AND Witherspoon I would add a couple of pieces to go with Donovan. Maybe Herrera or Burleson and a lesser pitching prospect.

That would give us a stable of pitching prospects and a solid infield.
C Crooks/Pages with Bernal/Rodriguez coming
1B Contreras/Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Saggese/Gorman

The outfield needs some work but it has for years. Maybe we could take some of the money we will save and finally address the outfield situation. Sounds like Walker will be in RF and Scott in CF. We have needed a RH hitting OFer for years and we have time to address that.

This is only December but when Donovan is moved (hopefully for some pitching), it will start to clear up the direction this team can go.

3B will be a question mark.

If the Cardinals have any notion in their player evaluations that either Gorman or Saggese could be even a 2+ fWAR solid regular for them, their approach to 2026 should still be to start out platooning them at 3B until one or the other, or both, or neither do more to prove themselves. That's precisely what 2026 should be for.

No offense intended but if the Cardinals are using fwar to determine their lineup we have a major problem.

Saggese has more upside but not much power. Gorman strikes out far too much for the little power he is generating. Either would likely be the 9 hitter in the lineup. Best case would be we acquire a good 3B prospect in one of these trades. Maybe for Contreras or Donovan?

I seriously doubt Gorman or Saggese will hit 9th. That's Scott's place.

[ecleme22]

To get both Tolle AND Witherspoon I would add a couple of pieces to go with Donovan. Maybe Herrera or Burleson and a lesser pitching prospect.

That would give us a stable of pitching prospects and a solid infield.
C Crooks/Pages with Bernal/Rodriguez coming
1B Contreras/Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Saggese/Gorman

The outfield needs some work but it has for years. Maybe we could take some of the money we will save and finally address the outfield situation. Sounds like Walker will be in RF and Scott in CF. We have needed a RH hitting OFer for years and we have time to address that.

This is only December but when Donovan is moved (hopefully for some pitching), it will start to clear up the direction this team can go.

3B will be a question mark.

If the Cardinals have any notion in their player evaluations that either Gorman or Saggese could be even a 2+ fWAR solid regular for them, their approach to 2026 should still be to start out platooning them at 3B until one or the other, or both, or neither do more to prove themselves. That's precisely what 2026 should be for.

No offense intended but if the Cardinals are using fwar to determine their lineup we have a major problem.

Saggese has more upside but not much power. Gorman strikes out far too much for the little power he is generating. Either would likely be the 9 hitter in the lineup. Best case would be we acquire a good 3B prospect in one of these trades. Maybe for Contreras or Donovan?

I think I saw something where Bloom said they are looking for a backup vet 2b/3b. While it won't move the WAR needle, I'm guessin the focus is on a defensive specialist.

Regarding 3B prospect in a trade: I just want the team to get the best players possible. They can always trade those prospects for a 3B prospect or 3B MLBer, depending on he timing.

Regarding Mitch's thoughts on Gorman/Saggese: I do think 2026 will be used for more player evaluations, but I think the org will be better at evaluating quicker.

[Talkin' Baseball]

Kyson Witherspoon, please.

[ScotchMIrish]

To get both Tolle AND Witherspoon I would add a couple of pieces to go with Donovan. Maybe Herrera or Burleson and a lesser pitching prospect.

That would give us a stable of pitching prospects and a solid infield.
C Crooks/Pages with Bernal/Rodriguez coming
1B Contreras/Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Saggese/Gorman

The outfield needs some work but it has for years. Maybe we could take some of the money we will save and finally address the outfield situation. Sounds like Walker will be in RF and Scott in CF. We have needed a RH hitting OFer for years and we have time to address that.

This is only December but when Donovan is moved (hopefully for some pitching), it will start to clear up the direction this team can go.

3B will be a question mark.

If the Cardinals have any notion in their player evaluations that either Gorman or Saggese could be even a 2+ fWAR solid regular for them, their approach to 2026 should still be to start out platooning them at 3B until one or the other, or both, or neither do more to prove themselves. That's precisely what 2026 should be for.

No offense intended but if the Cardinals are using fwar to determine their lineup we have a major problem.

Saggese has more upside but not much power. Gorman strikes out far too much for the little power he is generating. Either would likely be the 9 hitter in the lineup. Best case would be we acquire a good 3B prospect in one of these trades. Maybe for Contreras or Donovan?

I seriously doubt Gorman or Saggese will hit 9th. That's Scott's place.

Okay 8th. Not many good teams have 3B batting that low in the lineup.

[mattmitchl44]

To get both Tolle AND Witherspoon I would add a couple of pieces to go with Donovan. Maybe Herrera or Burleson and a lesser pitching prospect.

That would give us a stable of pitching prospects and a solid infield.
C Crooks/Pages with Bernal/Rodriguez coming
1B Contreras/Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Saggese/Gorman

The outfield needs some work but it has for years. Maybe we could take some of the money we will save and finally address the outfield situation. Sounds like Walker will be in RF and Scott in CF. We have needed a RH hitting OFer for years and we have time to address that.

This is only December but when Donovan is moved (hopefully for some pitching), it will start to clear up the direction this team can go.

3B will be a question mark.

If the Cardinals have any notion in their player evaluations that either Gorman or Saggese could be even a 2+ fWAR solid regular for them, their approach to 2026 should still be to start out platooning them at 3B until one or the other, or both, or neither do more to prove themselves. That's precisely what 2026 should be for.

No offense intended but if the Cardinals are using fwar to determine their lineup we have a major problem.

Saggese has more upside but not much power. Gorman strikes out far too much for the little power he is generating. Either would likely be the 9 hitter in the lineup. Best case would be we acquire a good 3B prospect in one of these trades. Maybe for Contreras or Donovan?

fWAR of 2+ is going to be indicative of solid, league average performance over a season. For a 3B, it would be about an Addison Barger or Carlos Correa level of performance from last year.

So, yeah, that will mean something with regard to the productivity they get - however you want to measure it.

Having either Gorman, Saggese, or both demonstrate the capability of solid, ML average performance would be a meaningful development for the organization overall.

[sikeston bulldog2]

To get both Tolle AND Witherspoon I would add a couple of pieces to go with Donovan. Maybe Herrera or Burleson and a lesser pitching prospect.

That would give us a stable of pitching prospects and a solid infield.
C Crooks/Pages with Bernal/Rodriguez coming
1B Contreras/Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Saggese/Gorman

The outfield needs some work but it has for years. Maybe we could take some of the money we will save and finally address the outfield situation. Sounds like Walker will be in RF and Scott in CF. We have needed a RH hitting OFer for years and we have time to address that.

This is only December but when Donovan is moved (hopefully for some pitching), it will start to clear up the direction this team can go.

3B will be a question mark.

If the Cardinals have any notion in their player evaluations that either Gorman or Saggese could be even a 2+ fWAR solid regular for them, their approach to 2026 should still be to start out platooning them at 3B until one or the other, or both, or neither do more to prove themselves. That's precisely what 2026 should be for.

No offense intended but if the Cardinals are using fwar to determine their lineup we have a major problem.

Saggese has more upside but not much power. Gorman strikes out far too much for the little power he is generating. Either would likely be the 9 hitter in the lineup. Best case would be we acquire a good 3B prospect in one of these trades. Maybe for Contreras or Donovan?

fWAR of 2+ is going to be indicative of solid, league average performance over a season. For a 3B, it would be about an Addison Barger or Carlos Correa level of performance from last year.

So, yeah, that will mean something with regard to the productivity they get - however you want to measure it.

Having either Gorman, Saggese, or both demonstrate the capability of solid, ML average performance would be a meaningful development for the organization overall.

I’m totally muffed. Face first. Nose deep. Any internal replacement for arenado hits no better than he does. Next, none of these light hitting imposters can touch his glove. Whats the issue.