After 3 awful years now the cards want to rebuild lol

[Carp4Cy]

They kept trying to patch the ML roster to "compete" (what many here continue to call for) until they just couldn't any longer.

As noted long ago, they should have traded Goldschmidt and Arenado at back in July 2023 and started the rebuild at that point.

No. The problem wasn't "patching". Teams always have to do this. The problem was cheap patching. Period.

They got Gray going into 2024, which was very much NOT a cheap patch. Once that - along with still having to pay Arenado, Goldschmidt, Contreras, Mikolas, etc., there was no other serious option than some "cheaper patching" for the many other inadequacies on the roster.

I disagree on Gray. He was a cheap patch. Instead of signing an ace / elite free agent for once, they set their eyes on a #2. They tricked a lot of fans once again into thinking they were competing.

Gray did what we needed. Cards were 38-22 when he started. The problem wasn't not signing someone better than Gray. It was not ALSO brining in pitchers better than Mikolas and Fedde.

[Imperial Capitalist]

The incompetence of this ownership is very scary

Maybe, perhaps, just a shot in the dark, they wanted Bloom to be in charge and in full control for the rebuild. Ya think?

And BDW could have fired Mo a full year earlier effective immediately when he decided to install Bloom instead of giving him a wasted year of runway. That handling was a massive missed opportunity.

Just being loyal to a long time friend who had helped bring winning seasons for many years.

Sentimentality belongs in the marketing department, not in the board room per who is running the franchise into the ground, as it turned out. If loyalty mattered that much to Dewitt, then he should have purchased Mozeliak a Bentley and told him to hit the road in it.

BDW, Jr. has his way of showing loyalty, and you have yours. No problem.

Yes, problem.

I'm not at the helm of one of 30 major league baseball teams. Undue loyalty to Mozeliak postponed the corrective actions that the franchise needed to take in order to begin the journey back to being truly, as opposed to tangentially, competitive.

[Bob39]

They waited to rebuild because rebuilding is usually a bad idea that fails far more than it works.

[Poojols]

They kept trying to patch the ML roster to "compete" (what many here continue to call for) until they just couldn't any longer.

As noted long ago, they should have traded Goldschmidt and Arenado at back in July 2023 and started the rebuild at that point.

No. The problem wasn't "patching". Teams always have to do this. The problem was cheap patching. Period.

They got Gray going into 2024, which was very much NOT a cheap patch. Once that - along with still having to pay Arenado, Goldschmidt, Contreras, Mikolas, etc., there was no other serious option than some "cheaper patching" for the many other inadequacies on the roster.

I disagree on Gray. He was a cheap patch. Instead of signing an ace / elite free agent for once, they set their eyes on a #2. They tricked a lot of fans once again into thinking they were competing.

Gray did what we needed. Cards were 38-22 when he started. The problem wasn't not signing someone better than Gray. It was not ALSO brining in pitchers better than Mikolas and Fedde.

He did very well here indeed. My point was basically that they never go after the elite FA. They are finally seeing a falloff of fan interest due to that.
Hopefully we just get some new salary rules but I'm not holding my breath.

[Imperial Capitalist]

They waited to rebuild because rebuilding is usually a bad idea that fails far more than it works.

I'd make the argument that rebuilding was delayed because so long as attendance was above "X" it outranked all other considerations. It was only when fan attendance responded to the situation(s) on the field and in the W-L column were the wheels of change slowly set into motion.

[Cranny]

The incompetence of this ownership is very scary

Maybe, perhaps, just a shot in the dark, they wanted Bloom to be in charge and in full control for the rebuild. Ya think?

And BDW could have fired Mo a full year earlier effective immediately when he decided to install Bloom instead of giving him a wasted year of runway. That handling was a massive missed opportunity.

Just being loyal to a long time friend who had helped bring winning seasons for many years.

Sentimentality belongs in the marketing department, not in the board room per who is running the franchise into the ground, as it turned out. If loyalty mattered that much to Dewitt, then he should have purchased Mozeliak a Bentley and told him to hit the road in it.

BDW, Jr. has his way of showing loyalty, and you have yours. No problem.

Yes, problem.

I'm not at the helm of one of 30 major league baseball teams. Undue loyalty to Mozeliak postponed the corrective actions that the franchise needed to take in order to begin the journey back to being truly, as opposed to tangentially, competitive.

30 year employees who have contributed to great success are treated with respect.

[Imperial Capitalist]

The incompetence of this ownership is very scary

Maybe, perhaps, just a shot in the dark, they wanted Bloom to be in charge and in full control for the rebuild. Ya think?

And BDW could have fired Mo a full year earlier effective immediately when he decided to install Bloom instead of giving him a wasted year of runway. That handling was a massive missed opportunity.

Just being loyal to a long time friend who had helped bring winning seasons for many years.

Sentimentality belongs in the marketing department, not in the board room per who is running the franchise into the ground, as it turned out. If loyalty mattered that much to Dewitt, then he should have purchased Mozeliak a Bentley and told him to hit the road in it.

BDW, Jr. has his way of showing loyalty, and you have yours. No problem.

Yes, problem.

I'm not at the helm of one of 30 major league baseball teams. Undue loyalty to Mozeliak postponed the corrective actions that the franchise needed to take in order to begin the journey back to being truly, as opposed to tangentially, competitive.

30 year employees who have contributed to great success are treated with respect.

Respect has nothing to do with it. People are terminated when no longer adequately meeting the challenge(s) at hand.

[zuck698]

The incompetence of this ownership is very scary

Maybe, perhaps, just a shot in the dark, they wanted Bloom to be in charge and in full control for the rebuild. Ya think?

And BDW could have fired Mo a full year earlier effective immediately when he decided to install Bloom instead of giving him a wasted year of runway. That handling was a massive missed opportunity.

Just being loyal to a long time friend who had helped bring winning seasons for many years.

Sentimentality belongs in the marketing department, not in the board room per who is running the franchise into the ground, as it turned out. If loyalty mattered that much to Dewitt, then he should have purchased Mozeliak a Bentley and told him to hit the road in it.

BDW, Jr. has his way of showing loyalty, and you have yours. No problem.

Yes, problem.

I'm not at the helm of one of 30 major league baseball teams. Undue loyalty to Mozeliak postponed the corrective actions that the franchise needed to take in order to begin the journey back to being truly, as opposed to tangentially, competitive.

30 year employees who have contributed to great success are treated with respect.

And are terminated when no longer adequately meeting the challenge at hand.

Not to mention the lack of "fan loyalty",that was discarded, by keeping him employed in a position that he was clearly failing at.

[Carp4Cy]

They kept trying to patch the ML roster to "compete" (what many here continue to call for) until they just couldn't any longer.

As noted long ago, they should have traded Goldschmidt and Arenado at back in July 2023 and started the rebuild at that point.

No. The problem wasn't "patching". Teams always have to do this. The problem was cheap patching. Period.

They got Gray going into 2024, which was very much NOT a cheap patch. Once that - along with still having to pay Arenado, Goldschmidt, Contreras, Mikolas, etc., there was no other serious option than some "cheaper patching" for the many other inadequacies on the roster.

I disagree on Gray. He was a cheap patch. Instead of signing an ace / elite free agent for once, they set their eyes on a #2. They tricked a lot of fans once again into thinking they were competing.

Gray did what we needed. Cards were 38-22 when he started. The problem wasn't not signing someone better than Gray. It was not ALSO brining in pitchers better than Mikolas and Fedde.

He did very well here indeed. My point was basically that they never go after the elite FA. They are finally seeing a falloff of fan interest due to that.
Hopefully we just get some new salary rules but I'm not holding my breath.

Agree, we don't. But until we make it to the playoffs, I don't think the marginal different between Gray and a CY contender would have made us a playoff team. But replacing Fedde with a good #3 or another #2 WOULD have gotten us into playoff position at the trade deadline, and probably also by seasons end, provided we didn't put half the roster on the DL as a preventative measure due to being out of it. So in this case - shore up your biggest weaknesses first because they carry the largest incremental improvement opportunity.

But yeah, once we are a playoff team we will probably need that top 5 Ace in all of MLB to be able to get past every other top pitcher also in the playoffs.

[Cranny]

The incompetence of this ownership is very scary

Maybe, perhaps, just a shot in the dark, they wanted Bloom to be in charge and in full control for the rebuild. Ya think?

And BDW could have fired Mo a full year earlier effective immediately when he decided to install Bloom instead of giving him a wasted year of runway. That handling was a massive missed opportunity.

Just being loyal to a long time friend who had helped bring winning seasons for many years.

Sentimentality belongs in the marketing department, not in the board room per who is running the franchise into the ground, as it turned out. If loyalty mattered that much to Dewitt, then he should have purchased Mozeliak a Bentley and told him to hit the road in it.

BDW, Jr. has his way of showing loyalty, and you have yours. No problem.

Yes, problem.

I'm not at the helm of one of 30 major league baseball teams. Undue loyalty to Mozeliak postponed the corrective actions that the franchise needed to take in order to begin the journey back to being truly, as opposed to tangentially, competitive.

30 year employees who have contributed to great success are treated with respect.

Respect has nothing to do with it. People are terminated when no longer adequately meeting the challenge(s) at hand.

You’d be a harsh boss to work 30 years for. Luckily, most business owners are more grateful to their long standing employees.

[Imperial Capitalist]

The incompetence of this ownership is very scary

Maybe, perhaps, just a shot in the dark, they wanted Bloom to be in charge and in full control for the rebuild. Ya think?

And BDW could have fired Mo a full year earlier effective immediately when he decided to install Bloom instead of giving him a wasted year of runway. That handling was a massive missed opportunity.

Just being loyal to a long time friend who had helped bring winning seasons for many years.

Sentimentality belongs in the marketing department, not in the board room per who is running the franchise into the ground, as it turned out. If loyalty mattered that much to Dewitt, then he should have purchased Mozeliak a Bentley and told him to hit the road in it.

BDW, Jr. has his way of showing loyalty, and you have yours. No problem.

Yes, problem.

I'm not at the helm of one of 30 major league baseball teams. Undue loyalty to Mozeliak postponed the corrective actions that the franchise needed to take in order to begin the journey back to being truly, as opposed to tangentially, competitive.

30 year employees who have contributed to great success are treated with respect.

And are terminated when no longer adequately meeting the challenge at hand.

Not to mention the lack of "fan loyalty",that was discarded, by keeping him employed in a position that he was clearly failing at.

Fan loyalty can be restored by a serious, competent individual such as Bloom. He is someone for whom the phrase "trust the process" is worth subscribing to.

Mozeliak's failures aren't something that will forever stand as the entry point of a dark era in the franchise's history. However, as with many stories that end on a bad note, said ending could have been handled differently, especially considering Mo served at the pleasure of Dewitt. If one accepts that "the end" didn't trumpet its arrival until attendance started going in a direction that this franchise can ill afford, you also have to wonder otoh(paraphrasing my earlier post) if attendance had proven resilient, would Bloom be a Cardinal employee today?

[Cranny]

The incompetence of this ownership is very scary

Maybe, perhaps, just a shot in the dark, they wanted Bloom to be in charge and in full control for the rebuild. Ya think?

And BDW could have fired Mo a full year earlier effective immediately when he decided to install Bloom instead of giving him a wasted year of runway. That handling was a massive missed opportunity.

Just being loyal to a long time friend who had helped bring winning seasons for many years.

Sentimentality belongs in the marketing department, not in the board room per who is running the franchise into the ground, as it turned out. If loyalty mattered that much to Dewitt, then he should have purchased Mozeliak a Bentley and told him to hit the road in it.

BDW, Jr. has his way of showing loyalty, and you have yours. No problem.

Yes, problem.

I'm not at the helm of one of 30 major league baseball teams. Undue loyalty to Mozeliak postponed the corrective actions that the franchise needed to take in order to begin the journey back to being truly, as opposed to tangentially, competitive.

30 year employees who have contributed to great success are treated with respect.

And are terminated when no longer adequately meeting the challenge at hand.

Not to mention the lack of "fan loyalty",that was discarded, by keeping him employed in a position that he was clearly failing at.

Fan loyalty can be restored by a serious, competent individual such as Bloom. He is someone for whom the phrase "trust the process" is worth subscribing to.

Mozeliak's failures aren't something that will forever stand as the entry point of a dark era in the franchise's history. However, as with many stories that end on a bad note, said ending could have been handled differently, especially considering Mo served at the pleasure of Dewitt. If one accepts that "the end" didn't trumpet its arrival until attendance started going in a direction that this franchise can ill afford, you also have to wonder otoh(paraphrasing my earlier post) if attendance had proven resilient, would Bloom be a Cardinal employee today?

If IC were a business owner - "I know he's been here for 30 years, and been a loyal employee who's helped bring us a great deal of success, but he's of little use now, so off with his head"!

[Imperial Capitalist]

The incompetence of this ownership is very scary

Maybe, perhaps, just a shot in the dark, they wanted Bloom to be in charge and in full control for the rebuild. Ya think?

And BDW could have fired Mo a full year earlier effective immediately when he decided to install Bloom instead of giving him a wasted year of runway. That handling was a massive missed opportunity.

Just being loyal to a long time friend who had helped bring winning seasons for many years.

Sentimentality belongs in the marketing department, not in the board room per who is running the franchise into the ground, as it turned out. If loyalty mattered that much to Dewitt, then he should have purchased Mozeliak a Bentley and told him to hit the road in it.

BDW, Jr. has his way of showing loyalty, and you have yours. No problem.

Yes, problem.

I'm not at the helm of one of 30 major league baseball teams. Undue loyalty to Mozeliak postponed the corrective actions that the franchise needed to take in order to begin the journey back to being truly, as opposed to tangentially, competitive.

30 year employees who have contributed to great success are treated with respect.

And are terminated when no longer adequately meeting the challenge at hand.

Not to mention the lack of "fan loyalty",that was discarded, by keeping him employed in a position that he was clearly failing at.

Fan loyalty can be restored by a serious, competent individual such as Bloom. He is someone for whom the phrase "trust the process" is worth subscribing to.

Mozeliak's failures aren't something that will forever stand as the entry point of a dark era in the franchise's history. However, as with many stories that end on a bad note, said ending could have been handled differently, especially considering Mo served at the pleasure of Dewitt. If one accepts that "the end" didn't trumpet its arrival until attendance started going in a direction that this franchise can ill afford, you also have to wonder otoh(paraphrasing my earlier post) if attendance had proven resilient, would Bloom be a Cardinal employee today?

If IC were a business owner - "I know he's been here for 30 years, and been a loyal employee who's helped bring us a great deal of success, but he's of little use now, so off with his head"!

Funny, as I am a business owner and am not known for beheading anyone. However, I do expect results from both my new and veteran employees {as well as myself} as I don't take for granted that customers are going to continue to patronize my business simply because I have a nice family and/or the business was successful 10 or 15 years ago.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

The Cardinals were doing what you all say they should be doing now. Bringing in veterans and trying to compete year after year. And where did it get them? The Cardinals were right that a big part of the fan base would freak out about a rebuild, so they avoided it when it was clear it should have started earlier. The OP says it all. It's been a bad three years.

The only thing that will satisfy these people is a $250+ million dollar payroll that keeps stacking up year after year as they try to continue to buy their way out of aging veterans past their prime. Yes, let's sign 32 year old Framber Valdez through his age 37 season. Let's sign Ranger Suarez through his 35 year old season. I'm complaining about Goldschmidt, Arenado, and Gray's last years here. What could go wrong with these other guys? Then we could trade a bunch of stuff from the farm that we just started rebuilding.

DeWitt was wrong about when he finally gave in about the rebuild, but he was 100% right about how a big part of the fan base would handle it.

By the way. Three "awful" years? There are a lot of fans of teams out there that would gladly take those three years when compared to the last 30.

[zuck698]

Maybe, perhaps, just a shot in the dark, they wanted Bloom to be in charge and in full control for the rebuild. Ya think?

And BDW could have fired Mo a full year earlier effective immediately when he decided to install Bloom instead of giving him a wasted year of runway. That handling was a massive missed opportunity.

Just being loyal to a long time friend who had helped bring winning seasons for many years.

Sentimentality belongs in the marketing department, not in the board room per who is running the franchise into the ground, as it turned out. If loyalty mattered that much to Dewitt, then he should have purchased Mozeliak a Bentley and told him to hit the road in it.

BDW, Jr. has his way of showing loyalty, and you have yours. No problem.

Yes, problem.

I'm not at the helm of one of 30 major league baseball teams. Undue loyalty to Mozeliak postponed the corrective actions that the franchise needed to take in order to begin the journey back to being truly, as opposed to tangentially, competitive.

30 year employees who have contributed to great success are treated with respect.

And are terminated when no longer adequately meeting the challenge at hand.

Not to mention the lack of "fan loyalty",that was discarded, by keeping him employed in a position that he was clearly failing at.

Fan loyalty can be restored by a serious, competent individual such as Bloom. He is someone for whom the phrase "trust the process" is worth subscribing to.

Mozeliak's failures aren't something that will forever stand as the entry point of a dark era in the franchise's history. However, as with many stories that end on a bad note, said ending could have been handled differently, especially considering Mo served at the pleasure of Dewitt. If one accepts that "the end" didn't trumpet its arrival until attendance started going in a direction that this franchise can ill afford, you also have to wonder otoh(paraphrasing my earlier post) if attendance had proven resilient, would Bloom be a Cardinal employee today?

If IC were a business owner - "I know he's been here for 30 years, and been a loyal employee who's helped bring us a great deal of success, but he's of little use now, so off with his head"!

Funny, as I am a business owner and am not known for beheading anyone. However, I do expect results from both my new and veteran employees {as well as myself} as I don't take for granted that customers are going to continue to patronize my business simply because I have a nice family and/or the business was successful 10 or 15 years ago.

Ditto. 30 year business owner here. Lets say one of my long time employees started making mistakes that negatively effect my customers, if after having discussions with said employee, the mistakes continued to happen! Do I let the employee keep going and making my customers go somewhere else, or do I have to terminate the employee, even though I would take no pleasure in doing so.

Now take my analogy above, the "clients" are the fans. Bill let Mo continue to make mistakes after mistakes for years. While doing so, he chased off a good amount of "clients"! Can he get them back thru positive actions by his new "employee" Bloom? More than likely, yes. As long as competitive baseball shows up before too many years pass by. If we do not field a competive team for several years, then my answer changes to no, he won't get some of the "clients" back. Good thing you weren't a business owner Cranny, if you think Bill handled the G.M. situation properly!

Remember, Bill could of always reassigned him to a different position. He didn't necessarily have to be fired.

[WLTFE]

And BDW could have fired Mo a full year earlier effective immediately when he decided to install Bloom instead of giving him a wasted year of runway. That handling was a massive missed opportunity.

Just being loyal to a long time friend who had helped bring winning seasons for many years.

Sentimentality belongs in the marketing department, not in the board room per who is running the franchise into the ground, as it turned out. If loyalty mattered that much to Dewitt, then he should have purchased Mozeliak a Bentley and told him to hit the road in it.

BDW, Jr. has his way of showing loyalty, and you have yours. No problem.

Yes, problem.

I'm not at the helm of one of 30 major league baseball teams. Undue loyalty to Mozeliak postponed the corrective actions that the franchise needed to take in order to begin the journey back to being truly, as opposed to tangentially, competitive.

30 year employees who have contributed to great success are treated with respect.

And are terminated when no longer adequately meeting the challenge at hand.

Not to mention the lack of "fan loyalty",that was discarded, by keeping him employed in a position that he was clearly failing at.

Fan loyalty can be restored by a serious, competent individual such as Bloom. He is someone for whom the phrase "trust the process" is worth subscribing to.

Mozeliak's failures aren't something that will forever stand as the entry point of a dark era in the franchise's history. However, as with many stories that end on a bad note, said ending could have been handled differently, especially considering Mo served at the pleasure of Dewitt. If one accepts that "the end" didn't trumpet its arrival until attendance started going in a direction that this franchise can ill afford, you also have to wonder otoh(paraphrasing my earlier post) if attendance had proven resilient, would Bloom be a Cardinal employee today?

If IC were a business owner - "I know he's been here for 30 years, and been a loyal employee who's helped bring us a great deal of success, but he's of little use now, so off with his head"!

Funny, as I am a business owner and am not known for beheading anyone. However, I do expect results from both my new and veteran employees {as well as myself} as I don't take for granted that customers are going to continue to patronize my business simply because I have a nice family and/or the business was successful 10 or 15 years ago.

Ditto. 30 year business owner here. Lets say one of my long time employees started making mistakes that negatively effect my customers, if after having discussions with said employee, the mistakes continued to happen! Do I let the employee keep going and making my customers go somewhere else, or do I have to terminate the employee, even though I would take no pleasure in doing so.

Now take my analogy above, the "clients" are the fans. Bill let Mo continue to make mistakes after mistakes for years. While doing so, he chased off a good amount of "clients"! Can he get them back thru positive actions by his new "employee" Bloom? More than likely, yes. As long as competitive baseball shows up before too many years pass by. If we do not field a competive team for several years, then my answer changes to no, he won't get some of the "clients" back. Good thing you weren't a business owner Cranny, if you think Bill handled the G.M. situation properly!

Remember, Bill could of always reassigned him to a different position. He didn't necessarily have to be fired.

Excellent analysis...as a business owner as well, I have argued that DeTwit failed to respond to the fans dissatisfaction in recent years...and now the fans have responded...too many front office (donkey) kissers refuse to understand this.